Behind the Curtain draft (Eastern Europe) | 1/8 | RedTiger 12:14 Raees

Who will win based on all the players at their peaks?

  • RedTiger

    Votes: 14 48.3%

  • Raees

    Votes: 15 51.7%
  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,022
Location
Moscow

@RedTiger ______________________________________________ @Raees

The draft thread with lots of additional information

RedTiger

TACTICS:

Pretty basic tactics from myself really, a 4141 with tymoschuk protecting the back 4, blazczykowski and Hagi playing flanks (hagi playing tucked in) with h the solidity of Kaladze and Luzhny behind.

I'll expect stankovic to play a slightly traditional B2B with Hamsik playing the attacking link through the middle.

PLAYER PROFILES
PLAYER PROFILES 2

Raees

Branco Stankovic Write-up
Ernst Willimowski Write-up
Georgi Asparuhov Write-up
Milutin Ivkovic Write-up


TACTICAL OUTLINE

4-2-2-2 built on a rock solid defence utilising a moderate defensive line and versatile attackers, envisage it as a nuclear powered perfect marriage between a current Pep/Klopp side going forwards, with fluid attackers like Coutinho/Firmino/Delle Alli/Eriksen but built on a Pochettino style defensive set up (So no fixed formation when on the attack, but out of possession becomes a 4-4-2, with Ivanov and Nedjedley who have brilliant work rates coming back to protect the flanks).

1. 'Kada' v Hagi - legendary defensive midfield maestro of the 20's is well equipped to keep Hagi nullified
2. Combining down the left - Demyanenko, Masopust, Nejedley and Willimowski.. Fearsome foursome
3. Athletic defence - All my defenders especially the Centre-backs are known for speed.. difficult for Sheva
4. Goals from midfield - Nejedley and Ivanov were Golden boot winners for WC 1934 and 1962
5. G-Ezi - Gundi will be the fluid target man, whilst Ezi will run at the defence and also make runs in behind

DEFENSIVE STRATEGY

Goalkeeper: The 'Iron Curtain' RINAT DASAEV, needs no introduction, considered the best keeper of the 1980's - his distribution with his javelin like throws which will help set the tempo when we counter or want to establish width with our build up play through my full backs or his long kicks in behind opposition defence to feed the electric Willimowksi or to the chest of Asparuhov.

Centre-Back Pairing: The best pure defender in the draft, 'Ivan the Terrible' ALBERT SHESTERNYOV, a perfect mixture of sweeper style and beast type defender with brilliant positioning and athleticism, will prove the perfect foil for Bulgaria's finest MANOL MANOLOV, 12 Time Bulgarian League winner and a good record v Hungary in the 50's, tough tenacious quick and unyielding centre-back who will be that typical unsung hero at centre-back that deals with all the ugly stuff whilst Albert clears up. Important to note it is a pretty pacey pairing and that will prove useful in trying to keep Shevchenko quiet.

Full-Backs: ANATOLIY DEMYANENKO will prove essential in supplying that quality consistently penetrative width which will give my 4-2-2-2, that constant out ball. Secondly, it is pretty clear from my formation graphic my team is more of a threat down the left, so I am hoping him, Nejedley, Masopust and Willimowski will give Redtiger nightmares, when we overload that side of the pitch. 'The Ambassador' BRANKO STANKOVIC was arguably the first ever modern style full back, equally comfortable going forwards as well as being rock solid defensively. Aged 37, he was far past his best when he faced England, but Stan Matthews was still so impressed by his display that he rated him the best opponent he faced. He will be the more stable and rational full back, getting forward in support rather than being deployed as a chaos creator like his colleague down the left.

MIDFIELD STRATEGY

Midfield Base: To nullify Hagi's threat and provide a solid defensive base to the midfield, we have the captain, legendary 'KADA' KAREL-PESEK, considered the best midfielder in europe during the 1920's and due to his olympic exploits in both the football and Ice Hockey, a national superstar. Very fit, great positional awareness, ferocious tackling ability and a leader..I think he'd be a nuisance for Hagi who will face his kryptonite in this regard.

Alongside him will be 'The Czech Knight', Ballon D'or winning JOSEF MASOPUST. He will be the creative drive from my midfield, the one who decides if we want to go keep ball or for the kill due to the fact he was technical ambidextrous wizard of a B2B midfielder famous for his lung busting, yet beautifully poised elegant slaloming dribbles from midfield full of feints and bodyshifts, breaking midfield lines from defensive positions and then playing team mates in with a variety of passes with either foot. He was a very balanced player who knew how to defend too, so isn't the type of player who will leave a midfield partner all at sea and composed on the ball, capable of slowing the game down if he needed to.

ATTACKING STRATEGY

Playmakers: In front of this solid base, I will have the free-roaming, yet selfless hard-working intelligent world class duo OLDRICH NEJEDLY and VALENTIN IVANOV. Golden boot winners in World Cup 1934 and World Cup 1962 (Ivanov was also golden boot winner in Euro 1960), you'd be confused for thinking these two were star strikers such is their prolificness in front of goal but the truth is they were inside forwards, efficient creators renowned for their subtle playmaking, in contrast to someone like Hagi who is your archetypal playmaker (for example their relationships with Puc and Streltsov in terms of their personality was similar to Iniesta's role in relation to Messi) , their ability to find space and leave opposition defences flummoxed as to how to keep them quiet. They will track back to make it 4-4-2 out of possession, but on the ball will interchange if need be and take all sorts of positions, trying to split the opposition defence and link up with the striking duo.

Forwards: 'EZI' WILLIMOWKSI, the man who terrorised Brazil's Da Guia and scored 4 past them in 1938, started off as a left winger (grabbing 33 goals aged 17 in a season) before progressing to CF. In this role, he will play slightly off GUNDI ASPARUHOV. The way I see it operating is like a Suarez and Van Basten (or Cavani) style partnership tactically, with Gundi as the focal point and Ezi, dropping deeper and running at the defence or when Gundi drops deep, Ezi runs in behind and stretches the defence.
 
Last edited:

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,022
Location
Moscow
Samir Handanovic
Regarded as one of the best goalkeepers of his generation, he is one of only three non-Italian keepers to be named Serie A Goalkeeper of the Year, winning the honor twice.

Oleh Luzhny


Arsenal F.C.
Winner


Runner-up


National
USSR Under-21


Individual



    • Ukrainian Team of the Century (poll by Ukrainsky Futbol):[6] 2000
Dario Simic
Šimić was a versatile defender who played as full-back, sweeper or centre back; a physical and hard-tackling defender, he was known in particular for his strength and ability in the air.[1] A product of Dinamo Zagreb Academy, he later played for Serie A sides Inter Milanand A.C. Milan and Ligue 1 side Monaco, before returning to Dinamo Zagreb in 2010, where he retired from the game during the same year.

Šimić also played for Croatia national football team and is the team's fourth most capped player, having won a total of 100 international caps between 1996 and 2008. He was member of Croatia's squad in all six major tournaments they qualified for during the 1990s and 2000s, which includes three FIFA World Cups (11 appearances in 1998, 2002 and 2006) and three UEFA European Championships (5 appearances in 1996, 2004 and 2008).

Croatia
Dinamo Zagreb
Milan

Siniša Mihajlović
Early into playing career, Mihajlović marked himself out with an extraordinary long-distance striking, crossing, and passing ability. His precise curling yet hard-driven left-footed shot allowed him to score spectacular free-kick goals on regular basis. A set-piece and penalty kick specialist,[15] Mihajlović has said that he shot free-kicks from as far as 35 yards, adding in a 2000 interview with BBC Sport: "I like to shoot with a swerve into both sides of the net. I often try scoring directly from the corners.".[16] He was capable of both scoring and creating chances from dead ball opportunities,[17] and holds the record for the most goals in Serie A from free-kicks, alongside Andrea Pirlo, with 28 goals. Along with Giuseppe Signori, he is one of only two players who have scored a hat-trick from free kicks in Serie A, a feat which he accomplished during his time with Lazio, in a 5–2 win over Sampdoria during the 1998–99 season.[18]

During his club career in Yugoslavia with FK Vojvodina and Red Star Belgrade as well as during his early spell at Roma, he played on the left side of midfield as winger, or as an attacking midfielder on occasion.[17] Upon moving to Italy, Roma coach Carlo Mazzone deployed him as a defensive midfielder; midway through his first season in Italy, he was moved to the position of left back by new head coach Vujadin Boškov. In 1994, after transferring to Sampdoria under head coach Sven-Göran Eriksson, Mihajlović was moved to the centre of the team's defensive line, and remained in this position for the rest of his career. He later excelled in this newfound centre back role, due to his consistent defensive displays and tenacity, as well as his good technique and long passing ability, drawing praise from Carlo Mazzone, in particular, who described him as one of the best players in his position.
FK Vojvodina
Red Star Belgrade[64]
Lazio
Internazionale
Individual

Kakha Kaladze
A versatile player, he was capable of playing both as a centre-back and as a left-back.[2] He played for the Georgia national team from 1996 to 2011. He was voted Georgian Footballer of the Year in 2001–2003, and 2006[3] and was considered as one of Georgia's most important players.

Kaladze started his football career in 1993 at Umaglesi Liga club Dinamo Tbilisi and made 82 appearances in a five-year spell. In 1998, he moved to the Ukrainian club Dynamo Kyiv and made 71 appearances until 2001, when he was signed by the Italian Serie A club Milan. He has won one Serie A, three Ukrainian Premier League and five Umaglesi Liga titles. With Milan, he won the Champions Leagueon two occasions, the UEFA Super Cup once and the FIFA Club World Cup once. After captaining his country 50 times in 84 appearances

Dinamo Tbilisi
Dynamo Kyiv
Milan
Individual
2001, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2011

Anatoliy Tymoshchuk
Tymoschuk is regarded as one of the greatest players in the history of Shakhtar Donetsk and Zenit Saint Petersburg, captaining both to championship titles.

Tymoshchuk is the former captain of the Ukraine national football team, and with 140 caps since his debut in 2000 he is their most capped player of all time. He took part in Ukraine's first-ever FIFA World Cup in 2006 and their first European Championship in 2012. He won the Ukrainian Footballer of the Year on three occasions.

Shakhtar Donetsk
Zenit St. Petersburg
Bayern Munich
Kairat[63]
Jakub Błaszczykowski
Polish professional footballer who plays as a winger for German club VfL Wolfsburg and the Poland national team. He started his professional football at Wisła Kraków establishing himself at a young age. In 2007 he joined Borussia Dortmund, where he spent the majority of his career, making over 250 appearances and winning two Bundesliga titles, two DFL-Supercups, and one DFB-Pokal.

Błaszczykowski was twice named Polish Footballer of the Year in 2008 and 2010.[2] With 84 appearances he is the seventh-most cappedplayer for Poland, and captained them as they co-hosted UEFA Euro 2012, while also appearing at UEFA Euro 2016

Wisła Kraków
Borussia Dortmund
Dejan Stanković
He captained the Serbia national team until 2011, when he announced his retirement from international football. He played as an attacking midfielder who could also play out wide on the wings, or track back in a defensive midfield role. A tenacious and hard-working player, "Deki", as he is nicknamed, was best known for his efficient, accurate passing, versatility and creativity, as well as his ability to score goals from long distance; he was also effective in the air, and known for his influence on the pitch. Stanković began his career at Red Star Belgrade, before joining Lazio in 1998. He spent more than five years with the latter club before joining Inter.

On 13 June 2010, Stanković became the first player to have represented three different national teams in the FIFA World Cup: FR Yugoslavia, Serbia and Montenegro and Serbia.

Red Star Belgrade
Lazio
Internazionale


Marek Hamšík

a Slovak professional footballer who plays as an attacking midfielder and serves as the captain for Italian club Napoli, and the Slovakia national team, for which he is vice-captain.

After beginning his club career with Slovan Bratislava in 2004, he subsequently moved to Italian club Brescia later that year. In 2007, he was purchased by newly promoted Serie A club Napoli, where he has since become a mainstay in the squad's starting line-up. His energy, leadership, creativity, skill, and eye for goal from midfield saw him play a key role in helping the team to two Coppa Italia titles, a Supercoppa Italiana, UEFA Champions League qualification, and the 2014–15 UEFA Europa League semi-finals.

At international level, he represented Slovakia at the 2010 FIFA World Cup, helping his country to qualify for the tournament for the first time in their history, and subsequently led the national team to the round of 16 of the tournament with a victory over defending champions Italy in the final match of the group stage. He later also led his nation to qualify for UEFA Euro 2016, making their first ever appearance at the European Championships, and once again helped the national side to reach the second round of the competition.

For his performances, Hamšík has also won several individual awards: he is a five-time winner of the Slovak Footballer of the YearAward, and he was named Serie A Young Footballer of the Year in 2008. In 2011, he was named to the Serie A Team of the Year, and in 2015, he was included in the UEFA Europa League Squad of the season. In 2013, Hamšík was ranked as the eighth best footballer in Europe by Bloomberg.
S.S.C. Napoli[85]

Gheorghe Hagi
considered one of the best attacking midfielders in Europe during the 1980s and 1990s and the greatest Romanian footballer of all time. Galatasaray fans called him 'Comandante' (The Commander) and Romanians called him 'Regele' (The King).

Nicknamed "The Maradona of the Carpathians", Hagi is considered a hero in his homeland. He was named Romanian Footballer of the Year seven times, and is regarded as one of the best football players of his generation. As a creative advanced playmaker, he was renowned for his dribbling, technique, vision, passing and finishing.

Hagi played for the Romanian national team in three World Cups in 1990, 1994 (where he was named in the World Cup All-Star Team) and 1998, as well as in three European Football Championships in 1984, 1996 and 2000. He won a total of 125 caps for Romania, ranked second after Dorinel Munteanu, and is the joint leading goalscorer (alongside Adrian Mutu) with 35 goals.

In November 2003, to celebrate UEFA's Jubilee, he was selected as the Golden Player of Romania by the Romanian Football Federationas their most outstanding player of the past 50 years. In 2004, he was named by Pelé as one of the 125 Greatest Living Footballers at a FIFA Awards Ceremony

Steaua București
Real Madrid
Brescia
Barcelona
Galatasaray
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,022
Location
Moscow
Shevchenko is ranked as the fifth top goalscorer in all European competitions with 67 goals. With a tally of 175 goals scored for Milan, Shevchenko is the second most prolific player in the history of the club, and is also the all-time top scorer of the Derby della Madonnina(the derby between Milan and their local rivals Internazionale) with 14 goals. Furthermore, he is the all-time top scorer for the Ukrainian national team with 48 goals. In 2012, he quit football and joined Ukraine – Forward! to take part in elections.

Shevchenko's career has been highlighted by many awards, the most prestigious of which was the Ballon d'Or in 2004 (becoming the third Ukrainian, after Oleh Blokhin and Igor Belanov, to receive it). He won the UEFA Champions League in 2003 with Milan, and he has also won various league and cup titles in Ukraine, Italy and England. He was also an UEFA Champions League runner-up in 2005 and 2008.

In his illustrious international career, the striker led Ukraine as captain to the quarter-finals in their first ever FIFA World Cup appearance in 2006, and also took part at UEFA Euro 2012

Dynamo Kyiv

Milan

Chelsea

Individual[edit]
 

RedTiger

Half mast
Joined
Oct 6, 2013
Messages
23,028
Location
Beside the sea-side, Beside the sea.
Pretty basic tactics from myself really, a 4141 with tymoschuk protecting the back 4, blazczykowski and Hagi playing flanks (hagi playing tucked in) with h the solidity of Kaladze and Luzhny behind.

I'll expect stankovic to play a slightly traditional B2B with Hamsik playing the attacking link through the middle.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,022
Location
Moscow
RedTiger said:
Pretty basic tactics from myself really, a 4141 with tymoschuk protecting the back 4, blazczykowski and Hagi playing flanks (hagi playing tucked in) with h the solidity of Kaladze and Luzhny behind.

I'll expect stankovic to play a slightly traditional B2B with Hamsik playing the attacking link through the middle.
Click to expand...
Added it to the OP.
 

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
29,469
Branko will have to pick up on Hagi if he goes wide and Kada will need to pick up on runs by Hamsik.

I think his defence will be overwhelmed by the quality of my attacking quartet.. and I don't think Tymoshuk will be able to handle both Ivanov and Nejedly when they start drifting into pockets of space and making late runs into the box.
 

2mufc0

Everything is fair game in capitalism!
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
17,012
Supports
Dragon of Dojima
Stankovich can come back and help Tymo with his fantastic work rate , the guy could also be a terrier not just a great attacking outlet.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,022
Location
Moscow
Don't like Hagi's role here to be fair. He's arguably RT's best player (alongside Shevchenko), and the team should've been built around that partnership. Stankovic - Tymoschuk is a great partnership to ensure defensive solidity and workrate behind Hagi while I don't understand what Hamsik brings to the team, a left winger would've been much better here.
 

Šjor Bepo

Wout is love, Wout is life; all hail Wout!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
15,652
I like what tiger tried to do but in this specific draft that was suicide, ended up with too many average players so IMO this would be a pretty one sided game.
 

oneniltothearsenal

Caf's Milton Friedman and Arse Aficionado
Scout
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
11,148
Supports
Brazil, Arsenal,LA Aztecs
At first glance Raees has the superior defense while Red Tiger has a stronger attacking unit. But like harms, I am a bit sad to see Hagi on the wing. In an all time draft or something I can see it but Hagi should really be the one this team is built around and highlighted. I loved watching Hagi in 94 where he was my favorite player of the tournament even more than Baggio and Romario. Definitely would have loved to see him centrally with Shevchenko in front. I think that would have been the best way to use the combo.
 

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
29,469
oneniltothearsenal said:
At first glance Raees has the superior defense while Red Tiger has a stronger attacking unit. But like harms, I am a bit sad to see Hagi on the wing. In an all time draft or something I can see it but Hagi should really be the one this team is built around and highlighted. I loved watching Hagi in 94 where he was my favorite player of the tournament even more than Baggio and Romario. Definitely would have loved to see him centrally with Shevchenko in front. I think that would have been the best way to use the combo.
Click to expand...
Out of interest why do you think he has a superior attacking unit.. is it because of the unfamiliarity of my attackers or you don't like the synergy?

On paper I have some truly gifted forwards, golden boot winners galore and Willimowski and Aspurahov are as gifted as it gets from this region. And I don't see why Ivanov and Nejedly should be seen as being in the same ball park as a Hamsik.. these guys starred in multiple world cups and were some of the leading footballers in their era.
 

oneniltothearsenal

Caf's Milton Friedman and Arse Aficionado
Scout
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
11,148
Supports
Brazil, Arsenal,LA Aztecs
Raees said:
Out of interest why do you think he has a superior attacking unit.. is it because of the unfamiliarity of my attackers or you don't like the synergy?

On paper I have some truly gifted forwards, golden boot winners galore and Willimowski and Aspurahov are as gifted as it gets from this region. And I don't see why Ivanov and Nejedly should be seen as being in the same ball park as a Hamsik.. these guys starred in multiple world cups and were some of the leading footballers in their era.
Click to expand...
At first glance yes but recency and familiarity probably has something to do with that. Also, there were years in the past where I saw Hagi and Shevchenko play and remember distinctly thinking I really rated them at the time I saw them so maybe some favored player bias as well?

But then thinking deeper I don't think the synergy is spot on for Red Tiger whereas from what I little I know of your players, your attacking unit cohesion has better synergy. Also on further thought beyond easier name recognition, Hamsik in particular I think would have been better replaced with a LM.

I hope to stay away from making too many favorable votes based on the players I simply know better than others but here I think I did take into account what little I know and think you have created a better synergy. It just hurts me to vote against Hagi+Shevchenko when around 2001 that would have been one of my favorite combos.
 

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
29,469
oneniltothearsenal said:
At first glance yes but recency and familiarity probably has something to do with that. Also, there were years in the past where I saw Hagi and Shevchenko play and remember distinctly thinking I really rated them at the time I saw them so maybe some favored player bias as well?

But then thinking deeper I don't think the synergy is spot on for Red Tiger whereas from what I little I know of your players, your attacking unit cohesion has better synergy. Also on further thought beyond easier name recognition, Hamsik in particular I think would have been better replaced with a LM.

I hope to stay away from making too many favorable votes based on the players I simply know better than others but here I think I did take into account what little I know and think you have created a better synergy. It just hurts me to vote against Hagi+Shevchenko when around 2001 that would have been one of my favorite combos.
Click to expand...
That's fine mate, would be lying if we all don't have an inherent attachment to players we know best and Hagi and Sheva would be a quality combination.
 

2mufc0

Everything is fair game in capitalism!
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
17,012
Supports
Dragon of Dojima
Šjor Bepo said:
I like what tiger tried to do but in this specific draft that was suicide, ended up with too many average players so IMO this would be a pretty one sided game.
Click to expand...
Can i ask who are the average players in the team? You can maybe make an argument for Luzhny but even he was part of a premier league winning team.

The team is littered with domestic club & country captains, domestic league winners and champions league winners, i doubt most people have heard of let alone seen half of Raees's team play, it seems the draft is more based on nostalgia. Which is fair enough, if that's what we are basing things on.

With regards to Hagi, depending on how the game is going he can easily come in behind Sheva and Stankovich goes wide and Hamsik going CM. Hamsik has been playing CM for Napoli for the last 2 seasons and his defensive game is quite under-rated so he can easily fill in there as a partner for Tymo.
 

2mufc0

Everything is fair game in capitalism!
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
17,012
Supports
Dragon of Dojima
Also Sheva is arguable the best player in the draft and Hagi one of the best AM's, i'm sure they could get through the opposition defence.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,022
Location
Moscow
2mufc0 said:
Also Sheva is arguable the best player in the draft and Hagi one of the best AM's, i'm sure they could get through the opposition defence.
Click to expand...
Sheva isn't the best player in the draft. Hagi is definitely a top №10 and maybe the best in this role here but you shoved him on the left for whatever reason, while you should've built a team around those two.

And while Raees only have Masopust who can be considered equal to Hagi/Sheva, imo, the depth in his squad is enormous, while you start the likes of Kuba and Hamsik
 

2mufc0

Everything is fair game in capitalism!
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
17,012
Supports
Dragon of Dojima
harms said:
Sheva isn't the best player in the draft. Hagi is definitely a top №10 and maybe the best in this role here but you shoved him on the left for whatever reason, while you should've built a team around those two.

And while Raees only have Masopust who can be considered equal to Hagi/Sheva, imo, the depth in his squad is enormous, while you start the likes of Kuba and Hamsik
Click to expand...
I have no argument about Masopust, he's one of the top players of the draft. Hamsik and Kuba are comparable with his other midfielders though.

As for Sheva agree to disagree, imo the best goalscorer along with Puskas. Puskas aside, no other player in the draft comes close to his resume.
 
Last edited:

2mufc0

Everything is fair game in capitalism!
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
17,012
Supports
Dragon of Dojima
Also Raees playing 3 banks of 2 in the middle will make things congested centrally, Hagi finding space wide and cutting in will be devastating. But like i said before he can always switch position and come in centrally depending on the match situation.
 

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
29,469
2mufc0 said:
Can i ask who are the average players in the team? You can maybe make an argument for Luzhny but even he was part of a premier league winning team.

The team is littered with domestic club & country captains, domestic league winners and champions league winners, i doubt most people have heard of let alone seen half of Raees's team play, it seems the draft is more based on nostalgia. Which is fair enough, if that's what we are basing things on.

With regards to Hagi, depending on how the game is going he can easily come in behind Sheva and Stankovich goes wide and Hamsik going CM. Hamsik has been playing CM for Napoli for the last 2 seasons and his defensive game is quite under-rated so he can easily fill in there as a partner for Tymo.
Click to expand...
I'd say it makes sense if the majority of players are pre 90's and especially from that 30-50's period because that is when Eastern Europe as a region was probably the best in the world, if not up there with South America.

I understand the desire to pick players we are familiar with, but I am not going to pick an average modern day player just because someone has seen him when there is a player who has world cup finals/euro finals credentials.

I don't see how Hamsik, good player that he is, should be rated in the same ball park as a Ivanov who has scored in four international tournaments, golden boot winner 1962.. granted, Hamsik plays for a weaker side in Slovakia, but one is proven at the very highest level and the other we have to resort to speculation.

Nejedly and Ivanov are two of the finest inside forwards of their era, might not be the most flashiest of names but they're all time legends for their respective nations, have featured in all star teams for various World Cup/Euro tournaments, have stellar credentials at club level too - I don't get how someone like Sarosi can be accepted as an indisputably great player and then if you pick a player from the same era, who has impeccable international credentials.. they're not rated.

Ivanov amd Nejedly will be an absolute handful to keep an eye on, their goalscoring nous in the big games is top notch.. they might not be brilliant eye-catching players like a Hagi (never stated they were) but they possess a serious goal threat and even the more talented DM's in this draft would struggle to keep them off the score sheet.. it is their movement, and finishing ability at the highest level which sets them apart.
 

2mufc0

Everything is fair game in capitalism!
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
17,012
Supports
Dragon of Dojima
Raees said:
I'd say it makes sense if the majority of players are pre 90's and especially from that 30-50's period because that is when Eastern Europe as a region was probably the best in the world, if not up there with South America.

I understand the desire to pick players we are familiar with, but I am not going to pick an average modern day player just because someone has seen him when there is a player who has world cup finals/euro finals credentials.

I don't see how Hamsik, good player that he is, should be rated in the same ball park as a Ivanov who has scored in four international tournaments, golden boot winner 1962.. granted, Hamsik plays for a weaker side in Slovakia, but one is proven at the very highest level and the other we have to resort to speculation.

Nejedly and Ivanov are two of the finest inside forwards of their era, might not be the most flashiest of names but they're all time legends for their respective nations, have featured in all star teams for various World Cup/Euro tournaments, have stellar credentials at club level too - I don't get how someone like Sarosi can be accepted as an indisputably great player and then if you pick a player from the same era, who has impeccable international credentials.. they're not rated.

Ivanov amd Nejedly will be an absolute handful to keep an eye on, their goalscoring nous in the big games is top notch.. they might not be brilliant eye-catching players like a Hagi (never stated they were) but they possess a serious goal threat and even the more talented DM's in this draft would struggle to keep them off the score sheet.. it is their movement, and finishing ability at the highest level which sets them apart.
Click to expand...
Personally i'm in the camp where i believe physically and tactically modern players are superior than the older players (esp pre 50's) the game has advanced too far fitness and tactics wise. I know most won't agree with this as this is a draft dominated by nostalgia. But i don't think this is the place for this debate anyway.

As for Hamsik you have touched on the fact he plays for Slovakia who are pretty much minnows of Europe. But saying that if you look at what he's done for such a small team it is impressive:
  • Played a key role in the World Cup 2010, getting to the knockout stages beating world champions Italy on the way.
  • Top scorer in qualification for Euro 2016, captain and one of the better players that got to the knockout stages.
He also wouldn't be seen out of place in any of the top European teams.
 
Last edited:

Ecstatic

Cutie patootie!
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
13,787
Supports
PsG
Interesting game. Stankovic is going to win that game!

I will participate later in the discussions.
 

Gio

★★★★★★★★
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
20,330
Location
Bonnie Scotland
Supports
Rangers
2mufc0 said:
As for Hamsik you have touched on the fact he plays for Slovakia who are pretty much minnows of Europe. But saying that if you look at what he's done for such a small team it is impressive:
  • Played a key role in the World Cup 2010, getting to the knockout stages beating world champions Italy on the way.
  • Top scorer in qualification for Euro 2016, captain and one of the better players that got to the knockout stages.
He also wouldn't be seen out of place in any of the top European teams.
Click to expand...
While agreeing that it would have been better to give centre stage to Hagi/Shevchenko and have someone else provide functional width, I agree with the thrust of what you're saying about Hamsik. He couldn't done much more at international level and was one of the stars of Euro 2016 IMO.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,022
Location
Moscow
Gio said:
While agreeing that it would have been better to give centre stage to Hagi/Shevchenko and have someone else provide functional width, I agree with the thrust of what you're saying about Hamsik. He couldn't done much more at international level and was one of the stars of Euro 2016 IMO.
Click to expand...
Still, when you compare him with Masopust... or even Pesek, who clearly was one of the best players of his era. That's what decided it for me - apart from Hagi and Sheva, who'll be replacing Nejedly and one of the front two, I'd pick only Raees' players for the combined XI. Only Manolov's place is arguable. And Hagi isn't even used to his full potential!

It should've been a very negative team, sitting back, soaking pressure and unleashing Hagi/Sheva on the counters, but it doesn't look like one in this scenario.
 

Gio

★★★★★★★★
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
20,330
Location
Bonnie Scotland
Supports
Rangers
harms said:
Still, when you compare him with Masopust... or even Pesek, who clearly was one of the best players of his era. That's what decided it for me - apart from Hagi and Sheva, who'll be replacing Nejedly and one of the front two, I'd pick only Raees' players for the combined XI. Only Manolov's place is arguable. And Hagi isn't even used to his full potential!

It should've been a very negative team, sitting back, soaking pressure and unleashing Hagi/Sheva on the counters, but it doesn't look like one in this scenario.
Click to expand...
Of course. And the likes of Mihajlovic, Hagi and Shevchenko would certainly suit a counter-attacking set-up.
 

2mufc0

Everything is fair game in capitalism!
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
17,012
Supports
Dragon of Dojima
Voted just to see the scores so far, discount my vote from the final poll.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,022
Location
Moscow
2mufc0 said:
Voted just to see the scores so far, discount my vote from the final poll.
Click to expand...
Sadly I fecked up the poll so no one can see who voted, but I'll take a note of this in case there would be any questions over the final score
 

Šjor Bepo

Wout is love, Wout is life; all hail Wout!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
15,652
2mufc0 said:
Can i ask who are the average players in the team? You can maybe make an argument for Luzhny but even he was part of a premier league winning team.

The team is littered with domestic club & country captains, domestic league winners and champions league winners, i doubt most people have heard of let alone seen half of Raees's team play, it seems the draft is more based on nostalgia. Which is fair enough, if that's what we are basing things on.

With regards to Hagi, depending on how the game is going he can easily come in behind Sheva and Stankovich goes wide and Hamsik going CM. Hamsik has been playing CM for Napoli for the last 2 seasons and his defensive game is quite under-rated so he can easily fill in there as a partner for Tymo.
Click to expand...
I didnt even think of Luzhny as im not familiar with him,Some are average just because they are(Simic, Mihajlovic as CB) while others are average in the context of this draft when compared with others, usually they are solid players but nothing more(Kaladze, Kuba, Hamsik, Tymo).
 

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
29,469
Tactical considerations

  • Is Luzhny going to be able to protect a flank where you will have Demyanenko, Masopust, Njedley and Willimowski combining? it is the sort of combination where even someone like Cafu would have his work cut out to try and stop. Now admittedly his right winger does possess decent work rate but as a duo, I don't think they have the defensive nous to be able to stop a quartet of that quality overloading that side of the pitch.
  • As for the midfield battle, I am not expecting Kaladze to be much of a threat and therefore whilst we are both quite central sides, I have quality width in terms of my full backs and inside forwards who have experience out wide, whereas Hagi/Hamsik are better when operating centrally. Kada Pesek is well equipped to marshall that midfield and ensure it is working hard, positioned correctly and Masopust has the work rate to ensure he isn't overrun here. Stankovic is very astute defensively, so he will tuck in to ensure they do not expose us centrally if they do break midfield lines.
  • Is his centre-back pairing strong enough to counter the duo of Willimowski (10th highest goalscorer of all time) and Asparuhov, of whom the following was stated:
"I craved to play alongside Asparuhov. In the game between Benfica and Levski he conquered Lisbon. No other player had scored two against us at home before him. Asparuhov was the first."

- Eusebio


"When I first heard of Asparuhov's demise, I started to cry. Why would fate take away the life of such a great footballer? I could not sleep all night, I was seeing him play against Belgium in my dreams. I fell in love with the great player he was."

- Sandro Mazzola


"I loved his football, and I really liked him. In the Bulgaria-Italy game in Sofia I accidentally kicked him... I hope he had forgiven me..."

- Gianni Rivera

"I am sorry I could not play with him in the team of the world. Asparuhov was popular in Germany and had a lot of admirers. The papers used to write about him very often. His demise is an incomparable disaster for Bulgarian football."

- Gerd Muller
Click to expand...
Against Portugal World Cup 1966



Outside of Shevchenko and Hagi, I genuinely think my side is stronger across the pitch. Surprised the score is as close as there is a class deficit between my attack v his defence.
 

2mufc0

Everything is fair game in capitalism!
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
17,012
Supports
Dragon of Dojima
Some serious under rating of Kaladze and Mihajlović going on here, Kaladze has lined up with the likes of Maldini, Nesta and Costacurta in Champions League finals, Mihajlović partnered Nesta in Lazio's 99 Cup Winners Cup final not to mention his goal threat from free kicks (i think Mihajlović and Pirlo are top scorers from free kicks in Serie A). Surely this has a bit of value or is winning 12 bulgarian league titles and being born in 1920's automatically mean you are the better player?
 

Šjor Bepo

Wout is love, Wout is life; all hail Wout!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
15,652
2mufc0 said:
Some serious under rating of Kaladze and Mihajlović going on here, Kaladze has lined up with the likes of Maldini, Nesta and Costacurta in Champions League finals, Mihajlović partnered Nesta in Lazio's 99 Cup Winners Cup final not to mention his goal threat from free kicks (i think Mihajlović and Pirlo are top scorers from free kicks in Serie A). Surely this has a bit of value or is winning 12 bulgarian league titles and being born in 1920's automatically mean you are the better player?
Click to expand...
So because they played with great players they must be great? Kaladze is a solid player no more no less. Mihajlovic at CB is pretty average player because he didnt have positional discipline in his game and thats the reason why he played much better at leftback and in his best position IMO as a defensive b2b player.
 

Ecstatic

Cutie patootie!
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
13,787
Supports
PsG
2mufc0 said:
Can i ask who are the average players in the team? You can maybe make an argument for Luzhny but even he was part of a premier league winning team.

The team is littered with domestic club & country captains, domestic league winners and champions league winners, i doubt most people have heard of let alone seen half of Raees's team play, it seems the draft is more based on nostalgia. Which is fair enough, if that's what we are basing things on.

With regards to Hagi, depending on how the game is going he can easily come in behind Sheva and Stankovich goes wide and Hamsik going CM. Hamsik has been playing CM for Napoli for the last 2 seasons and his defensive game is quite under-rated so he can easily fill in there as a partner for Tymo.
Click to expand...
:lol:

In fact, one of the purposes of this draft was to discover new players.

It's more interesting to talk about some ancient stars that some obscure contemporary players.

2mufc0 said:
Also Sheva is arguable the best player in the draft and Hagi one of the best AM's, i'm sure they could get through the opposition defence.
Click to expand...
Everybody knows Scheva and Hagi are amongst the best contemporary players from EE.

There is no denying to say that it is hard to compare players of different eras. Yes, the average modern player is certainly better that the old-school one but the game has also changed at all levels. So, the question could be returned: would contemporary players be necessarily good in the 40s or 50s?

If I look at the French league, average players of the 80-90s were probably better than current average ones in terms of technical/passing skills.
 

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
29,469
@Joga Bonito keen to get your feedback on whether the set up of the side was what you expected, or would have adopted yourself had you had the same set of players.
 

Ecstatic

Cutie patootie!
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
13,787
Supports
PsG
Best Ukrainian players of the XX century
December 29, 2000

Ukrainian daily Ukrainsky Football conducted a national poll to determine a symbolic Ukrainenian National Team of the XX century.


Yevhen Rudakov (59%),
Oleh Luzhny (62%),
Mykhailo Fomenko (27%),
Vasyl Turianchyk (23%),
Anatoli Demianenko (68%),
Jozef Szabo (28%),
Yuri Voinov (29%),:wenger:
Victor Kolotov (35%),
Andri Shevchenko (84%),
Ihor Belanov (22%),
Oleh Blokhin (87%).
 

Gio

★★★★★★★★
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
20,330
Location
Bonnie Scotland
Supports
Rangers
Šjor Bepo said:
So because they played with great players they must be great? Kaladze is a solid player no more no less. Mihajlovic at CB is pretty average player because he didnt have positional discipline in his game and thats the reason why he played much better at leftback and in his best position IMO as a defensive b2b player.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if it was Mihajlovic's positioning, more his lack of pace that undermined him at times at CB.
 

Šjor Bepo

Wout is love, Wout is life; all hail Wout!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
15,652
Gio said:
I'm not sure if it was Mihajlovic's positioning, more his lack of pace that undermined him at times at CB.
Click to expand...
He was slow as feck in his early 30ies but he wasnt always that slow, he wasnt fast mind you but he was much more mobile then many people think. Dont think it was his pace that let him down as he was a pretty capable leftback, position where his lack of pace would be even easier to exploit + plenty of slow players excelled at CB position.
At his best he had the freedom in the middle of the part too press and launch into tackles, guess he had hard time to change his game for CB role specially as the previous role he played on a very high level.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.