Behind the Curtain draft (Eastern Europe) | 1/8 | mazhar13 vs green_smiley 7:8

[harms]

@mazhar13 ____________________________________________________ @green_smiley



The draft thread with lots of additional information
Write-ups on specific players

mazhar13

Quick Summary

• Inspiration (not necessarily the approach): totaalvoetbal
• Approach
  • Attack: possession-oriented with width utilised to stretch opponents. Pace can be fast but not chaotic
  • Defence: high-ish defensive line aimed to stifle the opposition and prevent them from playing.
• Addressing potential discussion points
  • Isn't Skoblar a striker?
    • That's where he was at his best, but he's someone who's covered all lateral and vertical areas of the final third with quite some comfort. He was so comfortable in the wide areas that he's often played as a winger for the national and club teams. See my YouTube channel (azharmu93) for a match upload on Josip Skoblar vs. Chile for the 3rd-place 1962 World Cup match.
  • Isn't Surjak a left winger?
    • He primarily played there, but he was a proper total footballer. He made his name as a left back (and is known as one of Yugoslavia's best ever left backs too), but he developed himself as a total footballer capable of playing in multiple positions. His strengths lie in his in-game intelligence and energy levels, and in this attacking left back role, he is able to fully utilise his talents. He has a hardworking Pjanic who can support him, and Bogicevic can drop back and create a back 4 when Surjak bombs forward.
  • Lack of width on the right side?!?!?!
    • Both Skoblar and Galic are quite comfortable on the right wing. In fact, Galic himself often drifted out to the right wing to pick up the ball, dribble past players, and send in a delivery to the striker. This is where he and Skoblar can work very well, and they have a proven partnership together at the 1962 World Cup
      
  • But Khurtsilava was a fat lard!!!
    • Yeah, he was a fat lard, but he was a fat lard who was strong and could play football. He can even play a high line himself as he did with the Soviets on occasion. Such is his level of intelligence and presence on the pitch. To show that he was quite capable as a defender, during the 1966 World Cup, the Soviet Union only conceded 2 goals when he played (against Portugal in the 3rd place match). Without him, they conceded double that amount.

green_smiley

Formation: 4-3-3 winger

Tactics

Front three of Dzajic, Lacatus and Lewandowski to spearhead the attack, positioning themselves close to opposition's dangerous areas all the time, and make themselves available during attacking phase. Dzajic and Lacatus provide the width to stretch the opposition's defense with their pace, skill, and flair, creating space for lethal target man Lewandowski to score

Dobrin is the playmaker and source of creativity, with great passing range and excellent dribbling skill, capable of carrying the ball forward from deep or scoring himself. He will be well supported by 2 central midfielders: Zanetic, a player with inexhaustible energy, equally brilliant in defensive and offensive plays; and Boban, a skillful, tenacious and ever-presence player to provide link between defense and attack

Both full-backs Fazlagic and Rat will take turn to push forward and support the attacking players, depending on the direction of attack. And then we have Ivanovic and Tudor, both strong and imposing central defenders, yet they also have the tactical intelligence and versatility to position themselves at correct spot to sniff out any opposition's threat. Also monsters on both attacking and defensive set pieces.

 

[harms]

@mazhar13 @oneniltothearsenal @green_smiley Good luck!

 

[harms]

The formation with questions isn't ideal, obviously, Pjanic is playing as a left midfielder and then one of the two goalkeepers, although I don't think that this position will be decisive here

 

[mazhar13]

The formation with questions isn't ideal, obviously, Pjanic is playing as a left midfielder and then one of the two goalkeepers, although I don't think that this position will be decisive here

As I said, it was something that was contrived a couple of weeks ago. Our squads are known, so I'm sure spectators can understand that we don't have Acimovic and Curkovic and that we do have Pjanic and Galic playing there.

 

[harms]

As I said, it was something that was contrived a couple of weeks ago. Our squads are known, so I'm sure spectators can understand that we don't have Acimovic and Curkovic and that we do have Pjanic and Galic playing there.

Yeah, wasn't questioning your effort, thanks for the edited pic

 

[Raees]

Mazhar has the stronger defence, comfortably so but Green Smiley has a really nice attack but Mazhar's isn't too bad either in all fairness.

@green_smiley good pick there with Zanetic, seems a well rated player but tad unlucky with his career it seems.

 

[mazhar13]

I have some free time during this lunch, so I will make some contributions now.

That Ivanovic-Tudor pairing is honestly quite incompatible. Ivanovic and Tudor are both defenders who are aggressive and tight in their marking. This will play into my hands as Skoblar and Galic will cause loads of issues for them. Against Skoblar, too, you need a full back who will have a better reading of the game than Rat. That left side is one that immediately strikes out as a weak point.

 

[Ecstatic]

Dzajic & Meskhi MOTM

 

[Ecstatic]

Does 'All-Action B2B' means 'Playmaking-Attacking Midfielder'?

 

[mazhar13]

Dzajic & Meskhi MOTM

I wouldn't simplify it like that, to be fair. They may be the exciting players, but there are other players around who can make a huge impact, like Galic, Skoblar, or Oblak, all of whom are match winners and battlers going forward. Defensively, Vasovic, Jusufi, and Khurtsilava were strong personalities capable of leading the team from the back on and off the ball.

Does 'All-Action B2B' means 'Playmaking-Attacking Midfielder'?

Think of him like Johan Neeskens. That's pretty much Oblak's playing style, anyways, getting himself in all phases of the game including in the final third. However, he isn't the main playmaker here just like how Neeskens wasn't, but he will be a significant contributor to all phases of the game.

 

[harms]

By the way, I was very intrigued by Khurtsilava pick. I'm a big fan (and I was the one who first introduced him in these drafts), but to pass up on Vidic as Vasovic partner couldn't have been easy. Though Vasovic should be comfortable dealing with Lewa while Murtaz can with the rebounds/Dobrin

As far as tactical misfit goes, Galic is an awful opponent for Tudor and Ivanovic, remember him being a nuisance against the USSR

Dzajic - Lewandowski is drool-worthy though, and Dobrin fits in quite nicely too

 

[mazhar13]

As fair as tactical misfit goes, Galic is an awful opponent for Tudor and Ivanovic, remember him being a nuisance against the USSR

He really was a nuisance, and I'm surprised that the Yugoslavians didn't get him and Sekularac involved more often though that might have something to do with their high-pressing, aggressive inside forwards and Voinov forcing the Yugoslavians to play long balls forward instead. Honestly, that Euro 1960 final was poor in quality, though we did get to see some good moments from Galic and Meskhi .

I'm not going to talk anymore in here. It'll be unfair on GS if I do continue this. @oneniltothearsenal I suggest that you wait for GS as well if you're interested in getting involved.

 

[Ecstatic]

I wouldn't simplify it like that, to be fair. They may be the exciting players, but there are other players around who can make a huge impact, like Galic, Skoblar, or Oblak, all of whom are match winners and battlers going forward. Defensively, Vasovic, Jusufi, and Khurtsilava were strong personalities capable of leading the team from the back on and off the ball.

Think of him like Johan Neeskens. That's pretty much Oblak's playing style, anyways, getting himself in all phases of the game including in the final third. However, he isn't the main playmaker here just like how Neeskens wasn't, but he will be a significant contributor to all phases of the game.

Good to know

Where is @green_smiley?

 

[mazhar13]

Good to know

Where is @green_smiley?

He said that he was quite busy in these recent weeks. He might be as busy as @oneniltothearsenal is, I suppose.

However, it's sad to see that there's not much discussion in here, but oh well, I guess that's how it is.

 

[green_smiley]

Good to know

Where is @green_smiley?

Sleeping

Will have a look later

 

[green_smiley]

Jusufi is more proficient as left-back if not mistaken? @mazhar13 @oneniltothearsenal

 

[green_smiley]

Mazhar has the stronger defence, comfortably so but Green Smiley has a really nice attack but Mazhar's isn't too bad either in all fairness.

@green_smiley good pick there with Zanetic, seems a well rated player but tad unlucky with his career it seems.

In fact, Zanetic was the first Croatian (the second is Modric) to be named in Best World Football Team of the year

 

[Raees]

Jusufi is more proficient as left-back if not mistaken? @mazhar13 @oneniltothearsenal

no he was considered more of a right back, but considered equally good in both positions. Stankovic was also proficient in both positions, was actually playing left back when he faced Matthews.

 

[mazhar13]

Jusufi is more proficient as left-back if not mistaken? @mazhar13 @oneniltothearsenal

He's naturally right-footed, but he's played on both sides frequently. For the national team, he played on the left whilst Durkovic played on the right, but for his clubs, he's always played as a right back. He's as proficient on the right as he is on the left, and this has to do with his excellent technique and ability on the ball. If he has to be compared with a modern-day player in terms of his style, it'd be Denis Irwin, though I'd say that he was more defensively oriented due to his experience as a full back in a WM setup.

 

[green_smiley]

Mazhar has the stronger defence, comfortably so but Green Smiley has a really nice attack but Mazhar's isn't too bad either in all fairness.

@green_smiley good pick there with Zanetic, seems a well rated player but tad unlucky with his career it seems.

Vasovic is one of the best central defenders that are available in this draft. Heard about Jusufi and Khurtsilava, but not much for the rest

Fazlagic was the captain of the Yugoslavia team to the Euro 1968 final, and was considered one of the best full-backs in his generation. He dealt with the likes of Fachetti in the final with not much trouble, so he will be more than capable to handle the attacking Surjak

Some video snipets that I managed to capture for Fazlagic during the finals, showing him supporting attacking on the right with his quick acceleration and crossing (while not over-committed), and defensive skill

 

[mazhar13]

@green_smiley

Did you vote to see the scores or not? I just want to make sure that we are on the same page in terms of voting to see the scores. Personally, I prefer to keep the suspense by not voting, but if you did, I may as well do it too to maintain the consistency.

 

[harms]

@green_smiley

Did you vote to see the scores or not? I just want to make sure that we are on the same page in terms of voting to see the scores. Personally, I prefer to keep the suspense by not voting, but if you did, I may as well do it too to maintain the consistency.

He didn't

 

[mazhar13]

He didn't

Thanks harms. That makes this match an even better experience for me, then. The votes tend to become a distraction for me, honestly.

 

[green_smiley]

I have some free time during this lunch, so I will make some contributions now.

That Ivanovic-Tudor pairing is honestly quite incompatible. Ivanovic and Tudor are both defenders who are aggressive and tight in their marking. This will play into my hands as Skoblar and Galic will cause loads of issues for them. Against Skoblar, too, you need a full back who will have a better reading of the game than Rat. That left side is one that immediately strikes out as a weak point.

Although Rat is not all-time great, he won't be captain for Romania team and earn more than 100 caps if he is just a decent defender. He is an all-round full-back with good pace and strength to participate in both defensive and attacking phase

Ivanovic-Tudor are both hard defenders, but they are versatile and well-positioned to deal with mobile attacking players. Ivanovic can play at right back and centre back with ease, with Tudor with his defensive skills and tactical flexibility and awareness, can play anywhere along the back line and even as a defensive midfielder

 

[green_smiley]

I imagine Bogicevic will have to drop back more often that not to cover for Surjak when he attacks, especially with the presence of dangerous winger Lacatus whom cannot be left unmarked. Also, the presence of Fazlagic, one of the best fullback in his generation, and Ivanovic, capable of filling any gap on my right side, will have no problem to deal with any kind of attacking play

On the same side, Pjanic is dealing with Boban, who will match in terms of skills, but is more aggressive, tenacious and competitive to win the ball back

 

[green_smiley]

With Jusufi in defensive position having to deal with Dzajic, it means I never have to worry about fullback overlapping on my left side

Even though Skoblar and Galic can interchange position, in terms of number, they do not have any advantage. Also, the presence of Oblak is dealt with, as he is facing Zanetic, one of the greatest central midfielders in his time

Football experts will say that Žanetić was the protagonist of the popular game ahead of its time, the total football player before he invented this term. Modernist before modern. Winner of the Yugoslav national team silver medal at the European Championships in Paris and Olympic gold medal in Rome in 1960, when he was voted the best player of Europe at the position he played, and English Soccer World ranked him at the world team in the company of football world unforgettable Grosich Nilton Santos, Pele, Di Stefano, Puskas, Gento and others.

 

[green_smiley]

mazhar's high-ish defensive line is very risky too. Zanetic, Boban and Dobrin have the skills to maneuver out of tight space or pick out defense-splitting passes to my pacy forwards trio. One lapse of concentration will result in my forwards punishing the opponent with goal

 

[green_smiley]

Couple of youtube highlights

Dragan Dzajic

Marius Lacatus
Goal against FK Goteborg 1989

Free kick against Wales, WC '94

Nicolae Dobrin

 

[mazhar13]

Although Rat is not all-time great, he won't be captain for Romania team and earn more than 100 caps if he is just a decent defender. He is an all-round full-back with good pace and strength to participate in both defensive and attacking phase

Ivanovic-Tudor are both hard defenders, but they are versatile and well-positioned to deal with mobile attacking players. Ivanovic can play at right back and centre back with ease, with Tudor with his defensive skills and tactical flexibility and awareness, can play anywhere along the back line and even as a defensive midfielder

You say that about Rat, but then again, you have the unpicked Vedran Corluka who almost had 100 caps, but no one will say that he's a really good Eastern European defender. Here, he'll have to deal with Skoblar, who'll be tricky with his movement and close control. Rat will have be careful with his positioning as he'll run the risk of getting dragged around, creating spaces for the likes of Galic and co. to exploit.

You say that Ivanovic and Tudor are both versatile, but that's without concerning yourself with their playing styles. Ivanovic was always at his best as a full back. He's at his best when he goes up and supports the winger with his runs forward and crosses from out wide. Defensively, he was never suited to defending in the middle as he was more a man-marking player who would tighten up the channels than defend the middle areas and cover up the gaps. Here, he'll have his hands full with Galic as a false 9, and a proven combination like Skoblar-Galic will cause them several issues with their understanding of each other's game (based on the number of times they played together for Yugoslavia during the 1960's). Ivanovic always struggled with dynamic players who are comfortable in multiple areas of the pitch, and he has to deal with just that in Galic and Skoblar.

The same goes for Tudor who was more useful as a utility player for Juventus in filling up for others. His key traits are his physicality and height, but he'll have a tough time dealing with an athlete in Skoblar and a tricky customer in Galic.

With Jusufi in defensive position having to deal with Dzajic, it means I never have to worry about fullback overlapping on my left side

Even though Skoblar and Galic can interchange position, in terms of number, they do not have any advantage. Also, the presence of Oblak is dealt with, as he is facing Zanetic, one of the greatest central midfielders in his time

See, here's the thing: you're focusing quite a lot on my right side already. Galic, Skoblar, and anyone else would move themselves around there and create overloads, forcing your players to focus on that area due to its unpredictability. With Zanetic keeping close tabs there as well, that will leave Pjanic more room to play his natural playmaking game, and whilst Boban will be around there, him focusing more on the defensive game will allow us to keep possession and control the game as we intend. This will also allow Bogicevic to become more of a key player, utilising his excellent passing range and vision to switch play to the opposite flank and play through our runners/give the ball to Galic/Skoblar dropping into the hole.

mazhar's high-ish defensive line is very risky too. Zanetic, Boban and Dobrin have the skills to maneuver out of tight space or pick out defense-splitting passes to my pacy forwards trio. One lapse of concentration will result in my forwards punishing the opponent with goal

The purpose of the high defensive line is to prevent your team from playing out from the back. Your midfield won't get much time to settle on the ball due to the high energy and intensity of our midfield (Brane Oblak's energy levels were quite famous during his playing career). With that combined with Galic and Skoblar's willingness to press opponents, your defenders will struggle to play the ball forward, particularly since Ivanovic and Tudor weren't that great in possession and more able with space and time.

 

[mazhar13]

Here you have Galic in space on the left with Tudor scrambling to come towards him. Galic plays the ball to Skoblar, who loses Rat with a good diagonal run inside:

Here you have Skoblar going to the left far post and making Ivanovic panic:

This is a guy who scored 44 goals in the 1970/71 league season (no one, not even Ibrahimovic with PSG, has bettered that total in Ligue 1), winning the Ligue 1 title 23 years after their last triumph and 4 years after being promoted from Ligue 2. Not only that, but the season after, he scored several vital goals (including a winner against Bastia at the Coupe de France final) to give Marseille their League and Cup double. Combine Skoblar with Galic, who scored 37 in 51 for Yugoslavia and 75 in 150 (both behind a striker), and our team is too deadly for Ivanovic, Tudor, and Rat to contain.

 

[mazhar13]

I'm going to post this Pjanic video to show how deep he operated. His playmaking game allowed Nainggolan to be the all-action midfielder that made him who he is, and Pjanic will provide a similar platform to Oblak.

(I suggest to mute the volume to avoid the annoying music).

 

[mazhar13]

By the way, this is the same Pjanic who did this:

 

[mazhar13]

With Jusufi in defensive position having to deal with Dzajic, it means I never have to worry about fullback overlapping on my left side

And with Meskhi on my left wing, I won't have to worry about Fazlagic coming forward as he'll leave a tricky customer against Ivanovic coming out of the central area.

 

[Moby]

Ivanovic is getting terribly underrated here. He's one of the best defenders in the draft and has a fantastic CV to back that up. He was phenomenal against Barcelona in the 2012 CL semis which is as big a test of a defender as you can pick out and he has several other top European performances such as the one against a high flying Liverpool which demolished the Rio-Vidic defense at United and defeated Madrid 4-0 days before facing Chelsea. He's the best right-back the PL has seen and one of the best defenders in the league's history. A defender I'd pay anything to have in my team at his peak, at his best he was pretty much unbreakable and brings a tremendous amount of character, mental toughness, physicality, tactical awareness with big game ability to boot. It was really unfortunate that he missed the CL final in 2012 (Shreeves with his i'm a cnut moment in postmatch) as he was one of the most deserving finalists in that run. Such an invaluable player in the team at his peak.

 

[Jayvin]

Really good explanation of his players' skillsets and the roles they will perform by @mazhar13

Heavily leaning towards his side at the moment, but I'll see if @green_smiley has anything to add before I vote

 

[green_smiley]

And with Meskhi on my left wing, I won't have to worry about Fazlagic coming forward as he'll leave a tricky customer against Ivanovic coming out of the central area.

 

[green_smiley]

Here you have Galic in space on the left with Tudor scrambling to come towards him. Galic plays the ball to Skoblar, who loses Rat with a good diagonal run inside:

Here you have Skoblar going to the left far post and making Ivanovic panic:

Not bad, but here's the fatal flaw. The players in the video are not Tudor nor Ivanovic

 

[green_smiley]

You say that about Rat, but then again, you have the unpicked Vedran Corluka who almost had 100 caps, but no one will say that he's a really good Eastern European defender. Here, he'll have to deal with Skoblar, who'll be tricky with his movement and close control. Rat will have be careful with his positioning as he'll run the risk of getting dragged around, creating spaces for the likes of Galic and co. to exploit.

Nothing to do with Corluka whatsoever

You say that Ivanovic and Tudor are both versatile, but that's without concerning yourself with their playing styles. Ivanovic was always at his best as a full back. He's at his best when he goes up and supports the winger with his runs forward and crosses from out wide. Defensively, he was never suited to defending in the middle as he was more a man-marking player who would tighten up the channels than defend the middle areas and cover up the gaps. Here, he'll have his hands full with Galic as a false 9, and a proven combination like Skoblar-Galic will cause them several issues with their understanding of each other's game (based on the number of times they played together for Yugoslavia during the 1960's). Ivanovic always struggled with dynamic players who are comfortable in multiple areas of the pitch, and he has to deal with just that in Galic and Skoblar.

Obvious underrating Ivanovic whom have been brilliant in centre-half position multiple times and facing some of the best players in Premier Leugue

The same goes for Tudor who was more useful as a utility player for Juventus in filling up for others. His key traits are his physicality and height, but he'll have a tough time dealing with an athlete in Skoblar and a tricky customer in Galic.

Tudor was a regular starter during his 1998-2001 career at Juventus

See, here's the thing: you're focusing quite a lot on my right side already. Galic, Skoblar, and anyone else would move themselves around there and create overloads, forcing your players to focus on that area due to its unpredictability. With Zanetic keeping close tabs there as well, that will leave Pjanic more room to play his natural playmaking game, and whilst Boban will be around there, him focusing more on the defensive game will allow us to keep possession and control the game as we intend. This will also allow Bogicevic to become more of a key player, utilising his excellent passing range and vision to switch play to the opposite flank and play through our runners/give the ball to Galic/Skoblar dropping into the hole.

Focusing your attack on your side will make it more predictable and easier to contain

The purpose of the high defensive line is to prevent your team from playing out from the back. Your midfield won't get much time to settle on the ball due to the high energy and intensity of our midfield (Brane Oblak's energy levels were quite famous during his playing career). With that combined with Galic and Skoblar's willingness to press opponents, your defenders will struggle to play the ball forward, particularly since Ivanovic and Tudor weren't that great in possession and more able with space and time.

I've never said that I will play from the back

Lots of stuff you post, but mostly false

 

[mazhar13]

Nothing to do with Corluka whatsoever

I know, I was using him as an example that caps don't mean that much nowadays when there's so much international football around compared to the past. My point is that, having watched him (including his spell at West Ham), he never stood out as a good player. He was just another player doing a job, but rarely have I seen him to a good job. Heck, we even played against West Ham when he was there in the league, and he was on the bench on both occasions!

Obvious underrating Ivanovic whom have been brilliant in centre-half position multiple times and facing some of the best players in Premier Leugue

Which matches? No one remembers his matches as a central defender, just that he occasionally appeared there. His most well-known (and best) performances came at right back where he had an attacking influence as well. He just does not fit in as a central defender at all. Give him more defensive responsibilities, and you will see him struggle, which is what happened whenever he played as a central defender for Chelsea, resulting in him almost losing his starting position to Azpilicueta until Mourinho came back.

Tudor was a regular starter during his 1998-2001 career at Juventus

Yeah, he made a multitude of appearances, but they were at a variety of positions, ranging from central defender, left back, and defensive midfielder. He basically played wherever he was needed,and Juventus was fully fit, he would not get into their starting XI.

Focusing your attack on your side will make it more predictable and easier to contain

It will also allow me to switch to the other side and leave Meskhi in a 1-on-1 situation. All of Pjanic, Oblak, and Bogicevic have a good passing range and long-passing accuracy, and you can't afford to channel my attacks down one side whilst leaving another side open.

I've never said that I will play from the back

No you didn't, but with your midfield under intense pressure, the defenders will be crucial in relieving the pressure and maintaining possession. Whilst Tudor and Ivanovic aren't brutes on the ball, they don't have the vision and passing accuracy to break our pressing lines, unlike Vasovic and Khurtsilava.

 

[mazhar13]

Well, it was indeed a close match. Good game @green_smiley. I'm glad I didn't look at the votes throughout the process. It made me focus less on winning votes and more on the discussions between ourselves. The only disappointment is the lack of discussions from the spectators, though, but ah well.