Behind the Curtain draft (Eastern Europe) | 1/8 | Moby vs Sjor Bepo 9:6

[harms]

@Moby _________________________________________________________________ @Šjor Bepo

The draft thread with lots of additional information
Write-ups on specific players

Moby

The team is playing a 5 man defense, marshalled by one of the greatest sweepers of all time and the standout defender in the draft, Matthias Sammer. He will provide his talismanic leadership, organisation, reading of the game and the unbreakable mental toughness that brought him Ballon D'or, Euro 1996 win and the CL 1997 win. Not only will he provide an incredible shield in front of goal, but here he will have the freedom to join the midfield when on the ball and display his wonderful array of dribbling and passing skills to start instant counters and catch the opposition off guard. His presence at the back is invaluable.

Supporting him are the defenders Neven Subotić and Aleksandar Shalamanov. Both of them bring incredible physical presence to compliment Sammer and counter the opposition attack with their athleticism and work rate. Shalamanov was an olympic athlete and one of the best right backs of his generation, which will allow him to be an excellent cover when Srna makes his forward runs while not losing anything defensively. Similarly, Subotić reached CL finals and won Bundesligas while being the rock in defense for Dortmund next to Hummels, who is not that different from Sammer and would compliment him well here.

The key elements of this formation are the wingbacks, and here we have two of the best exponents of that role in Robert Jarni and Darijo Srna. Jarni dazzled the audiences at the 1998 WC when Croatia reached the semi finals. His energetic and tireless runs up and down the left flank were a huge component of that team and his crossing and final delivery in attack provided regular quality service for the forwards. On the other side, a club icon for Shakhtar, Srna has made his name as a world class right wing-back for over a decade now and his ability to play all along the right flank makes him a great fit for this role. His performances in the CL and Euros show his immense ability to perform on the biggest stage.

In midfield I have the polish midfielder Henryk Kasperczak who was an integral part of the fantastic Poland team that went deep into the 1974 WC where he allowed the likes of Deyna and Lato the license to attack while bringing in the high level of defensive nous. Partnering him is the dynamic star of the 1994 World Cup, Krasimir Balakov who along with Stoichkov was the driving force behind the Bulgarian team that dominated that WC. In this team, Balakov will have the freedom to bomb forward from midfield with the ball and combine with the front three in attack providing quality service, goal threat and creativity while also having the tireless attitude and work rate to constantly be in the midfield battle. With Sammer supporting the midfield from the back, he will have the platform to dominate the game from the middle of the park.

In attack, the #10 is one of the most talented players of his generation and from this region of the world - Dragan Stojkovic. An absolute legend for his club and country, Piksi will be the creative fulcrum of this team, linking midfield and attack, distributing the ball out wide and threading it through to the forwards while dovetailing beautifully with the talent around him and bringing it all together.

In attack, arguably the greatest Soviet footballer of all time, Eduard Streltsov takes up the free role as a forward playing in his younger incarnation where he was an absolute force of nature physically combining blistering pace and strength with world class dribbling and control. His pace and explosiveness with Stojkovic playing him through will be devastating here. He was dubbed the Russian Pelé and his playing style and the career curve couldn't be more similar. Imagine the early 60s Santos Pelé here.

Leading the line is the all time top scorer in World Cups - Miroslav Klose. His all round play, selflessness, clinical finishing, occupying the defenders, incredible aerial ability (especially with Jarna and Srna out wide) and the ability to bring others into play will fit in perfectly with players like Streltsov and Stojkovic around him and bring the best out of the whole attack.

Overall, the team has players who are well suited in their roles and played the same roles at a very high level often proving it by going deep into World Cups and other important competitions, My key players (Sammer, Streltsov, Stojkovic, Balakov) are all in their element here and would enjoy quality support from the rest of the team. The two wingbacks will be hugely important in stretching the pitch and being a notable presence in attack.

The ability on the ball runs from back to front with Sammer, Balakov, Stojkovic, Streltsov all being brilliant on the ball and there will be no shortage of service or quick transitions. We will look to play a highly dynamic style of play at a high tempo using the flying wingbacks and the explosive forward line to it's strength and not allowing the opposition any time to settle.

More of it in the game thread. Good luck Sjor and Invictus!

Sjor Bepo & Invictus

Player Profiles

Tactics

The central, talismanic figure of our team is Nándor Hidegkuti, and the entire team is built with him acting as the primary orchestrator. To ensure that, Hidegkuti is surrounded with a complementary support cast - which should gave him the ideal foundations to shine at this the stage. Movement, technical ability, selflessness, workrate, football brains - these are all ingredients we were looking for to pull off the tactic. On the whole, the defense is extremely strong, and provided us with a quality base to build on - with the midfield providing a stable structure (on and off the ball) as the transitional zone.

Without the ball

The plan is to stay compact, and pressure when opponent steps over the half way line - with arguably the best pure midfielder anchor in the pool in terms of defensive skill - Pluskal dropping slightly deeper as an added stopper - the central midfielders condensing on the insides and the fullbacks tucking in slightly to overwhelm using sheer numbers. The midfield unit has 3 tireless workers that were very good defensively and when we add at least 2 hard working attackers in Hidegkuti and specially Bokšić - who is comparable to the likes of Elkjær or Eto'o in that department - it should be more then enough considering the quality of the defensive unit. One of the best goalkeepers in the pool in Plánička, a harmonious sweeper-stopper combo of two Tier 1 defenders considering the pool, and 2 quality attacking fullbacks who were competent in both phases of the game.

With the ball

The plan was to build balanced side that is capable of playing free flowing short passing game as well as going very direct - without needing to go all gung-ho and jeopardizing the defensive balance.

We have one of two players always offering width - on the left they are Zhirkov and Bokšić who used to stretch defenses both vertically and horizontally while on the right we have combination of Petrescu and Cherenkov who liked to drift to the right à la Iniesta on the left for Spain and Barcelona.

In midfield, we have 2 players that combined well with others, and should be a great fit for Hidegkuti when he drops back to form combinations in the middle. Cherenkov held the keys of the short passing style at Spartak - renowned for playmaking and outstanding passing skills, his ability to deliver killer assists and his precise dribbling movements that helped Spartak’s short possession style to prosper back in the late '70s and early '80s. A natural born playmaker, but always aware of his commitment towards the team.

Gudelj was no different in a way as a box-to-box presence, and he was very different to 90% of Yugoslav players - back then, and to an extent - even today, players operated in undisciplined styles instead of working in harmony for the team was a major hindrance to success. Gudelj was one of the rare players that sacrificed his own game for the benefits of the team, on top if his individual quality. This would finally be a team where he can enjoy simple and efficient passing movements instead of being encumbered with egoistical pieces like at Hajduk and the national team - who had a propensity for going for the highlight pass, instead of the visibly simplistic yet productive and penetrative solution.

Moving the ball towards them should not be a problem with Pluskal acting as the buffer, Ondruš at the back and two fullbacks that were very good on the ball. In final third there is movement from all possible sides around Hidegkuti and that should be a nightmare for opposition defenses. We have Bokšić - who offered tremendous off the ball movement from one side, and the combination of Zsengellér (who excelled as a lead striker/ inside forward with Sárosi for the great Hungary team that reached the World Cup final, apart from being one of the most productive scorers in football history with 2 European top scorer crowns, and 5 Hungarian top scorer titles and being named IFFHS' 7th most successful Top Division Goal Scorer of all time) and Cherenkov - who offered 136 assists at club level.

Even in the unlikely scenario where Hidegkuti is stopped completely from acting the Pied Piper - like he did for the Mighty Magyars under Gusztáv Sebes, the rest the team has requisite individual quality to force the issue upon the opposition.

 

[Raees]

@Moby would like to hear your thoughts on combating Hidegkuti.. will Sammer come out of defence and press him or will your midfield take care of it.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

good luck @Moby

Two very nice teams with similar tactic and very good solutions for countering other teams main strengths.
Where we see we can nick it is the area where it seems you are the strongest. Sammer against Hidegkuti is a fantastic weapon, a true clash of the titans but where we see the advantage is if and when Sammer follows Hidegkuti into midfield area your defence looks a bit weak. Subotic i never really rated and as you said, Shalamanov is a rightback so a defence partnership of those two really excites us as we think we can exploit that. If Sammer doesnt follow Hidegkuti faced towards any defence isnt a sight they enjoy seeing.
One other area we think we have an edge is Cherenkov vs Balakov, one of the best qualities russian had was that vertical off the ball run that open defences time and time again, we cant see Balakov stopping that. Little russian dynamo scored 86 goals in 344 games.

Spoiler: Cherenkov goals for Spartak

 

[Šjor Bepo]

And just to finish with my gifs for this game here is Cherenkov vs Anderlecht but only first half, couldnt be bothered too watch the whole game twice in few days...

Tactical:

Spoiler: Positioned exactly where we have him, wins the ball and launches counter - lovely movement before the poor last pass

Spoiler: Perfectly positioned in his RCM zone, tracks back and wins another ball, this time by interception

Spoiler: One of his trademark runs of the ball(guy in the RCM zone), this time ignored.

Spoiler: Providing the width on the right and creating a good chance for the striker who misses the ball

Workrate:

Spoiler: Tracking back

Spoiler: Showing great defensive awarness in his own box

Spoiler: Saving his fullback twice in few seconds

Spoiler: Missplaced pass by left winger, who is first to track back? Wins possessions without touching the ball.

Possession:

Spoiler: Starting the move for the first goal

Spoiler: Launching the counter

giflord out.

 

[Moby]

The first thing I would have to mention is that if there's one weakness of the opposition central defense, it is pace, and they are facing one of the fastest and most explosive players in the draft in Streltsov. With Stojkovic playing him through with his pin point passes, his control at full pelt is going to be deadly here and once he's away he will be impossible to catch up. I don't see Vidic as a huge problem against pace normally but this is an all time great of this region who is a force of nature running with massive strength at full throttle with the ball - it will not end well.

 

[harms]

giflord out.

 

[Moby]

On the other side, it is probably one of the best matchups for me. In Sammer I have exactly the intelligent tactical presence needed to cover the dangerous spaces Hidegkuti is likely to exploit and shut most of that space down while putting in relentless tackles and challenges to never let him get much time on the ball. As well as having the leadership and marshalling the whole unit against the offense. If there's one player on the pitch here who can deal with his kind of threat, it is Sammer and that will be a huge blow to the opposition as without him their attack will never connect as well as it is required.

Also the fact that they are not playing traditional wingers and instead wide forwards plays perfectly into the hands of my setup. The two wingbacks will have enormous freedom here and will face little resistance.

Klose and Vidic will be a great match in the air but firstly, Klose is one of the best strikers aerially of his generation and secondly, his knockdowns with the Streltsov and Piksi lurking around will be devastating as well.

In midfield I trust Stojkovic and Balakov to dominate the ball and provide more creativity than I can see in the opposition, with the support from the wingbacks and Klose stretching play vertically they will be a bit too much to handle and can create ample clear cut opportunities.

 

[harms]

The first thing I would have to mention is that if there's one weakness of the opposition central defense, it is pace, and they are facing one of the fastest and most explosive players in the draft in Streltsov

That is an overstatement. He was more of a complete package - pace, strength, close control, intelligence, movement - but I wouldn't call him one of the fastest players in the draft like Blokhin, for example, he was fast, but not one of the fastest ever/in the draft. He does have an advantage over Ondrus and Vidic in this department though

 

[Moby]

That is an overstatement. He was more of a complete package - pace, strength, close control, intelligence, movement - but I wouldn't call him one of the fastest players in the draft like Blokhin, for example, he was fast, but not one of the fastest ever/in the draft. He does have an advantage over Ondrus and Vidic in this department though

We aren't talking Cristiano Ronaldo level of pace here, which is why I also mentioned explosiveness. His younger version showed great acceleration and the first couple of touches are the crucial part here, once he's away neither of the two CBs are going to catch him, even if he's not as fast as Blokhin. But the key point here is that he's capable of getting away from them instantly after getting the ball and that will create some inroads, conversely he can also make runs behind them and have Piksi drill in perfectly weighed through balls. That pace is going to hurt, basically, on it's own as well as in combination with the rest of the team.

 

[Enigma_87]

I'll look into the games more closely tonight. From first sight - exciting teams. One question for @Moby - How do you see Balakov and Piksi operating and working in that central area?

Wouldn't a more conventional 4-3-3 with Streltsov and Piksi operating in wider areas with Klose up top be a better representation in attack, while at the same time you get Bala in his favorite #10 position?

I'm not sure how and what effect will Balakov have in that a bit box to box position he's playing in.

 

[Moby]

I'll look into the games more closely tonight. From first sight - exciting teams. One question for @Moby - How do you see Balakov and Piksi operating and working in that central area?

Wouldn't a more conventional 4-3-3 with Streltsov and Piksi operating in wider areas with Klose up top be a better representation in attack, while at the same time you get Bala in his favorite #10 position?

I'm not sure how and what effect will Balakov have in that a bit box to box position he's playing in.

I don't really need him as a proper box to box given I have Sammer pushing forward and providing the defensive assurance in midfield when we have the ball, but at the same time he was an incredibly hard working and tenacious midfielder who would cover a fair bit of ground and participate in the 'battle'. On the ball, Piksi is the central creative fulcrum of the team while Balakov provides the transition and link up play in midfield similarly to what he did in the 1994 WC for Bulgaria while Stoichkov assumed the centre stage. His constant outball from that area, distribution out to the wingbacks, and combination with Piksi in building up play while putting pressure on the opposition backline are his primary responsibilities. With a five at the back, I can afford to have a rather creative presence in that role and not be too worried about being exposed with Kasperczak and Sammer both ever present to guard any quick turnovers.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

ohhh same old staff with Vida on the pitch
As we said in OP, our defensive shape would be compact and with defensive qualities of our players we dont expect to leave much space for opposition players to just run over certain individual not that we are concerned about that in the first place. Both Vidic and Ondrus faced plenty of faster players yet in 99% of the time they had the upper hand. Torres who was one of the fastest modern players around outplayed Vidic once, they faced each others at least 3, 4 times before Torres went to shit and nothing happened but people love to forget this.

Also the fact that they are not playing traditional wingers and instead wide forwards plays perfectly into the hands of my setup. The two wingbacks will have enormous freedom here and will face little resistance.

Hmm, we can say the same.

Klose and Vidic will be a great match in the air but firstly, Klose is one of the best strikers aerially of his generation and secondly, his knockdowns with the Streltsov and Piksi lurking around will be devastating as well.

I can see the logic of playing the pace and dribbling card against Vidic but this? While Klose was great in the air i have zero doubt that Vidic would batter them and got the better of him 10 out of 10 times. I can safely say that Vidic is the best CB i ever saw(including older ones i watched) in dominating the aerial duels, he was on the different level in that specific segment.

In midfield I trust Stojkovic and Balakov to dominate the ball and provide more creativity than I can see in the opposition, with the support from the wingbacks and Klose stretching play vertically they will be a bit too much to handle and can create ample clear cut opportunities.

We have zero problems playing on the counter, Boksic and Gudelj were at their best on the counter and both Hidegkuti and Cherenkov would love the open spaces on the break.

On the other side, it is probably one of the best matchups for me. In Sammer I have exactly the intelligent tactical presence needed to cover the dangerous spaces Hidegkuti is likely to exploit and shut most of that space down while putting in relentless tackles and challenges to never let him get much time on the ball. As well as having the leadership and marshalling the whole unit against the offense. If there's one player on the pitch here who can deal with his kind of threat, it is Sammer and that will be a huge blow to the opposition as without him their attack will never connect as well as it is required.

I don't really need him as a proper box to box given I have Sammer pushing forward and providing the defensive assurance in midfield when we have the ball, but at the same time he was an incredibly hard working and tenacious midfielder who would cover a fair bit of ground and participate in the 'battle'

So Sammer will push with Hidegkuti to close the space and stop Hidegkuti having time on the ball. Thats great and i can see that being a quality weapon in your team but as i said earlier, moving Sammer in your midfield and that will happen more often then not because when players dont have time and space to play they drop deeper, specially when that also benefits the whole team. What i was trying to say, Sammer moving into midfield will leave your defence vulnerable and a CB pair of a rightback and Neven Subotic doesnt seem like a big obstacle for my attack.
And not only that, with Sammer being occupied fully on Hidegkuti and if he wants to stand a chance against him he will need to be fully focused on him it will leave the gap for Cherenkov vs Balakov duel and there is only one winner there.

PS: with all the talk about Hidegkuti being against Sammer lets not forget Piksi is also against the top tier opponent in Pluskal.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

One of the greatest defensive midfielders to ever play in the CEIC, SVATOPLUK PLUSKAL

(clearly trumps Hanappi when it comes to thighs as well )

Forming an irrepressible engine-room tandem alongside Josef Masopust, Pluskal was the unyielding lynchpin in midfield who allowed Masopust the liberty to express his creative talents and the freedom to go on his mesmerising slaloming runs. The midfield colossus played an integral role in Czechoslovakia's run to the WC 1962 final - the first time an European team made the final on South American soil- where they eventually succumbed to Garrincha's wizardry.

One of Czechoslovakia's key players alongside Masopust, Novak and Popluhar in the late 50s and early 60s (where they won the CEIC and reached the final of WC 62) Pluskal was simply a irreplaceable cog of that Czechoslovakian machine.

Pluskal was the perfect player for 4-2-4 system. Like I said numerous times, if Svatu didn't exist it would be necessary to invent him. He was so tough, yet disciplined and responsible, both on and off the pitch. A players like him is born once in 20 years" (20 as a figure being used, to highlight the sincerity of his comments, rather than the obligatory and hollow platitude of once in a century player).

Svatopluk always played with full dedication, pacing the field with a wet shirt and he never ever backed down. He was reliable and completely fulfilled tactical requirements, like no one else. Most destroyers more often than not, focused on the 'destroying' aspect and either violated or neglected prescribed tactical guidelines. With Pluskal, it did not happen. He could hold his own in decisive moments and his teammates had full confidence in him right from the start. At times he would literally encircle his opponent and in the crucial window of time when it appeared that the attacker was going to escape, Pluskal will jump in with his foot and nip the ball away. Toiling tirelessly and being a reliable presence in the defensive play, he gave Masopust the ideal platform in order to develop strategic combinations. They could play together blind-folded

His status as one of the best centre-halves of his era was established by his appearance in the Rest of the World XI against England, in Wembley to commemorate the prestigious centenary year of English football. A quick look at the XI would be revealing (Yashin-Djalma Santos-Schnellinger-PLUSKAL-Popluhar-Masopust-Kopa-Denis Law-Di Stefano-Eusebio-Gento, with Puskas and Seeler on the bench); truly your cream of the crop bunch and not your average past it ceremonial XI. He once again figured in an Europe XI (featuring amongst the likes of Seeler and Eusebio) against Yugoslavia a year later, cementing his standing as a world class centre half.

His Central European International Cup exploits were incredible to say the least, for what is perhaps the best Czechoslovakian team of all time. Simply put, he did not lose a single game in the tournament; his individual record reads P8 W6 D2 L0. He played 7 games in Czechoslovakia's victorious campaign of the final version of the CEIC, whereby they pipped the legendary Mighty Magyars to the title by a single point. They only suffered a single defeat throughout the tournament, losing 1-3 to Hungary in their first encounter, a match in which, needless to say, Pluskal didn't feature. In the return fixture, Pluskal proved to be the difference as they inflicted the solitary defeat of Hungary's tournament, an encounter which would ultimately prove to be the match which determined the champions of the tournament.

Pluskal's left a lasting impression with his irrepressible gameplay and affable character. In 80's Czech football magazine made a football board game, where one of the squares was named "Pluskal's tackle" - his trade-mark sliding tackles were that famous. He was widely regarded by many as the inventor of slide-tackles, whether that is true or not, he truly was a connoisseur in the art of tackling.

He was the first player to use sliding tackles, despite the quality of the pitches being generally awful - there were less grass there than a barren wasteland - so his legs and hips were always in bruises and his skin torn off.

The quarterbacks from future generations can learn from Pluskal's highly effective manoeuvre - the slide tackle. This is Pluskal's contribution to football that will last forever. "

Svat was unmatched in what he did best. He was perfect defensively, he had brilliant positioning, he could've jumped higher than his opponent (and not only in defence). Pluskal was famous for his tackling - he wasn't afraid to dive in and to kick the ball out. He was not afraid to take risks, even in training. Whilst others would have second thoughts on exposing their legs in a slide tackle in fear of a broken leg, Pluskal never seemed perturbed by it. He was like a mighty tree branch who played without fear of pain.

His bravery and unwavering dedication to his craft, meant that he was willing to literally put his body on the line to win the ball at any cost. In one game he played the last 20 minutes with an injured meniscus in his knee, after which he got on the train and went to his hometown to visit his family . There is also the anecdote whereby before the 1962 World Cup, they showed Pluskal's X-ray to the doctor, the doctor said: "Poor guy was in a wheel-chair for quite some time, wasn't he?" - "No, he is preparing for the World Cup as we speak".

He was also an integral presence in the dressing room with his wit and sense of humour defusing tension before high-pressure games. Before a tough game where everyone in the dressing room would be deadly serious discussing the upcoming game, Pluskal will quip - '"It's all right, I'll 'just' go ahead score 4 goals - and we all will get a well-deserved rest!". Before the game against Brazil in the 1962 WC, he walked into the Czech dressing room before proclaiming "Don't worry guys, they are afraid of us - I just saw Djalma Santos outside and he was all white".

After the 1962 World Cup he was very popular in Chile - and he received a letter, asking permission to name a newly founded club after him. He thought that it was some kids and agreed to it, never giving it a second thought. He returned to Chile three years later, and he was very surprised when he received an invitation - turns out it was a serious club, with a stadium, the whole town, lead by their mayor, came on the streets to greet him and every football player had "Pluskal" written on the back of their kit.

Highly respected by his peers, greatly feared by his opponents and playing his heart out on the pitch for his beloved Dukla and the Czechoslovakian national team, Pluskal was a truly legendary player, who had the perfect personality to go along with his uncompromising game.

"I knew in my career many outstanding players. Only one of them, however, named Svatopluk Pluskal." - Sir Stanley Matthews

credit @Joga Bonito @harms

 

[Moby]

As we said in OP, our defensive shape would be compact and with defensive qualities of our players we dont expect to leave much space for opposition players to just run over certain individual not that we are concerned about that in the first place. Both Vidic and Ondrus faced plenty of faster players yet in 99% of the time they had the upper hand. Torres who was one of the fastest modern players around outplayed Vidic once, they faced each others at least 3, 4 times before Torres went to shit and nothing happened but people love to forget this.

Like I told harms it isn't raw pace over a stretch that is the case here and I don't consider Vidic a problem against that, it is the explosiveness and the acceleration that is the problem for him, which is exactly how Eto'o took Vidic out of the equation in the CL 09 final and scored the opening goal. That is the more concerning problem for you here and not having much space behind isn't going to do anything against that. A player of the quality of Streltsov needs half a yard get away from his defender and be in front of goal. Especially with Klose occupying the central defenders along with him.

Hmm, we can say the same.

Not really, you don't have a third central defender that frees up the wingbacks the way they are in my team.

I can see the logic of playing the pace and dribbling card against Vidic but this? While Klose was great in the air i have zero doubt that Vidic would batter them and got the better of him 10 out of 10 times. I can safely say that Vidic is the best CB i ever saw(including older ones i watched) in dominating the aerial duels, he was on the different level in that specific segment.

Likewise, Klose is one of the best when it comes to aerial game and has scored some of his best and most important goals in the air. No one is saying he will dominate Vidic in the air but he'll be an absolute match, if you are looking at this without the bias and can see what Klose did in his career, especially with Germany at the biggest stage. He's not a simple bully in the air, but combines his jumps with great timing and intelligence which runs throughout his overall play and instead of going head to head with someone like Vidic he will position himself intelligently and get to the ball sooner on occasions. Saying Vidic will win the aerial duels with him 10 out of 10 times is nothing but pure hyperbole, as great as Vidic is. Most importantly, it is the combination of an all round centre forward and an complete forward besides him that as a duo will be a mammoth task to contain.

CB pair of a rightback and Neven Subotic

Shalamanov isn't a typical modern winger-turned rightback, but far more defensively cultured defense first no nonsense defender whose best attributes were defending in 1v1s and bringing his tremendous athleticism with both agility and strength and shutting down various opponents. He's absolutely at home in this role, where he can easily cover the flank when Srna bombs forward as well as guard attackers in 1v1 situations while Sammer sweeps anything that goes past him.

And what's this shite about Subotic? He didn't reach CL final and won Bundesliga without facing quality attacks week in week out, just because he isn't a black and white figure here he isn't to be gone underrated. His CV speaks for himself, he was the rock and the truest defender in that Dortmund backline, partnering Hummels, who is a lot similar to Sammer in most of his attributes and he defended against quality attacks. They conceded 1 goal in 180 minutes against Real Madrid who had an attack of Cristiano Ronaldo, Angel Di Maria and Gonzalo Higuain, as well as several great matchups against Bayern against the likes of Arjen Robben and Thomas Muller. During that golden period Dortmund had, his performances were absolutely pivotal to their defense and he did his job perfectly. Those attacks are all as good as, if not better than yours here where Sammer is doing the bulk of the defensive duty.

You say you fancy your chances once Hidegkuti drags away Sammer, when in reality with Hidgkuti being chased by Sammer and having to keep the ball against his tough and relentless tackling and pressing, there will be little service left for your forwards and keeping Hidegkuti quiet will be a massive dent for your plans. While on the other hand I have Balakov, Streltsov and Stojkovic, all absolutely capable of individually turning the game around if one of them is being heavily marked and they are going to trouble your defense more given their attributes than the other way round. Not to mention Jarni and Srna without much resistance will successfully engaging Zhirkov and Petrescu and stretching the play, which goes against your tactic of staying compact in defense.

 

[Gio]

I'd love to see Klose and Vidic going for headers together.

 

[Moby]

I'd love to see Klose and Vidic going for headers together.

Indeed, it'll be a great contest and an incredibly difficult one to predict before hand.

However I'd like to repeat that I won't have Klose going shoulder to shoulder with Vidic, as he didn't much of the time in his career. The people putting crosses on his head were well aware of his intelligent positioning and movement inside the box and that's what his team utilised. Furthermore, I'm equally confident that he will provide quality knockdowns for the players around him and that is going to be a serious weapon for my team given the quality he's surrounded with.

Not only are the two wingbacks having complete freedom to get down the flanks and provide the service, but there will be aerial balls from deep from the likes of Sammer that will look for his head as a quick outball and he can definitely put them in the path of Streltsov for example and start an attack from there. Those qualities were the primary reason I preferred him over a plethora of regular goal machines with better goals/game ratios because his all round game will be just as valuable as his clinical ability in front of goal.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Would like more info on Kasperczak and Shalamanov if possible @Moby

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Like I told harms it isn't raw pace over a stretch that is the case here and I don't consider Vidic a problem against that, it is the explosiveness and the acceleration that is the problem for him, which is exactly how Eto'o took Vidic out of the equation in the CL 09 final and scored the opening goal. That is the more concerning problem for you here and not having much space behind isn't going to do anything against that. A player of the quality of Streltsov needs half a yard get away from his defender and be in front of goal. Especially with Klose occupying the central defenders along with him.

Etoo didnt score because of his acceleration, he scored as he got the better of Vidic with dribbling, for example if Xavi did the same he would score the goal and he was slow as feck. Point being, Vidic wasnt exposed in that instance by pace or acceleration he was just catched on the turn and on the wrong foot, it was pood defending by him.
And btw most of the time its going to be Ondrus on Streltsov as Vidic will be occupied with Klose, as majority of sweepers he will rely on his football brain to stop the opponent not on his physical attributes or athletic capabilites as they are limited as they were with majority of sweepers yet they all somehow managed to play against quick and agile strikers. Truly great defendes cope with everything and in our opinion both Ondrus and Vidic go with that label, specially in this draft.

Not really, you don't have a third central defender that frees up the wingbacks the way they are in my team.

On paper maybe, in reality there is little or no difference as you said Sammer will act like a defensive midfielder in possession and Pluskal was a very defensive player, he wont go up on any occasion, if anything he will drop back and provide cover so we have free wingbacks as much as your team.

Likewise, Klose is one of the best when it comes to aerial game and has scored some of his best and most important goals in the air. No one is saying he will dominate Vidic in the air but he'll be an absolute match, if you are looking at this without the bias and can see what Klose did in his career, especially with Germany at the biggest stage. He's not a simple bully in the air, but combines his jumps with great timing and intelligence which runs throughout his overall play and instead of going head to head with someone like Vidic he will position himself intelligently and get to the ball sooner on occasions. Saying Vidic will win the aerial duels with him 10 out of 10 times is nothing but pure hyperbole, as great as Vidic is. Most importantly, it is the combination of an all round centre forward and an complete forward besides him that as a duo will be a mammoth task to contain.

Klose is a good striker no more no less and in reality we only look at his international career because his club career(which IMO is more important) is rather average and not even close to his international one.
And yes, it was hyperbole obviously but with reason....in my book there is a big difference in class between the two and specifically in that aerial segment where i didnt see nobody better then Vidic defensive wise but i saw plenty that were better then Klose. Vidic wasnt just dominant in the air we aint talking about Collins of West Ham, what made him special that he was a great reader of the game as well and when defending the box he read and eat crosses like nobody before, at least from what i saw with my 2 eyes so intelligent movement of Klose wont be the difference maker as Vidic was intelligent as well and he read situations very well. Its a nice combo we agree on that but so are Ondrus and Vidic in their perfect stopper/sweeper combo.

Shalamanov isn't a typical modern winger-turned rightback, but far more defensively cultured defense first no nonsense defender whose best attributes were defending in 1v1s and bringing his tremendous athleticism with both agility and strength and shutting down various opponents. He's absolutely at home in this role, where he can easily cover the flank when Srna bombs forward as well as guard attackers in 1v1 situations while Sammer sweeps anything that goes past him.

Sure i get it and i wouldnt question him in a typical defensive 3 but with Sammer moving up its worth mentioning it, specially when we take in mind debate that is in progress on the opposite side of the pitch.
And not only he was a natural rightback, he is also paired with Subotic who played support role to Hummells in Dortmund rather then being a leading CB.

And what's this shite about Subotic? He didn't reach CL final and won Bundesliga without facing quality attacks week in week out, just because he isn't a black and white figure here he isn't to be gone underrated. His CV speaks for himself, he was the rock and the truest defender in that Dortmund backline, partnering Hummels, who is a lot similar to Sammer in most of his attributes and he defended against quality attacks. They conceded 1 goal in 180 minutes against Real Madrid who had an attack of Cristiano Ronaldo, Angel Di Maria and Gonzalo Higuain, as well as several great matchups against Bayern against the likes of Arjen Robben and Thomas Muller. During that golden period Dortmund had, his performances were absolutely pivotal to their defense and he did his job perfectly. Those attacks are all as good as, if not better than yours here where Sammer is doing the bulk of the defensive duty.

There is nothing wrong with him, he was a solid player but nothing more and nothihg less. The fact he played in a successful team doesnt mean he is great himself, something we see often in recent time during drafts but in general. Its enough to be a part of the great team to be considered great. Plenty of average/solid CB looked much better then they were in a well drilled system when being paired with a dominant defender. We saw Subotic with Hummels, Miranda/Gimenez/Savic with Godin, Evans with Vidic, Cahill with Terry etc.
At least thats my opinion of him and on that matter.

You say you fancy your chances once Hidegkuti drags away Sammer, when in reality with Hidgkuti being chased by Sammer and having to keep the ball against his tough and relentless tackling and pressing, there will be little service left for your forwards and keeping Hidegkuti quiet will be a massive dent for your plans. While on the other hand I have Balakov, Streltsov and Stojkovic, all absolutely capable of individually turning the game around if one of them is being heavily marked and they are going to trouble your defense more given their attributes than the other way round. Not to mention Jarni and Srna without much resistance will successfully engaging Zhirkov and Petrescu and stretching the play, which goes against your tactic of staying compact in defense.

Well, i dont agree there wont be enough service. Cherenkov is fantastic on the ball with great vision and passing range. Gudelj was quality on the ball, he wasnt called "Beckenbauer from Zmijavci" for nothing + on the break his game often went to another dimension. He was physically dominant player with great athletic ability, on the break he was unstoppable. Same goes for Boksic who was pretty similar.

"He was the most complete player, was all over the field, he was deadly. There was no maneuvering, just went straight to the net. Just like Ronaldo(brazilian)." former coach Poklepovic

"Gudelj I called Ivanhoe, according to that knight," remembers Špaco(Poklepovic) played as defensive midfielder but impact wise was winning every third game, and in Hajduk, in the glorious power generation of 80, scored 35 goals, but only until the age of 26.

Ciro Blazevic(lead croatia to the WC bronze in 98) recalls that in 1986 wanted him at Dinamo.
"Id have the best midfield in the world - Gudelj, Prosinecki, Boban. Only Boksic used to remind me of him, when he went, he went - like Gudelj"

So if we disregard Hidegkuti we might as well do the same with Stojkovic. We are left with Balakov/Streltsov against Cherenkov, Gudelj and Boksic with both sides having wingbacks as well.
When we consider you are the attacking side and we are on the counter id say not only we are lacking something, compared to your team we maybe even have the edge.

 

[Raees]

@Šjor Bepo don't disagree with your general defence of Vidic but disagree on even Xavi being able to score that CL final goal. It was the fear he had of Eto'o's pace/electricity in general which allowed that move to happen and the quickness with which Eto'o done him, got past in one movement and then put it away.. whilst Vidic turned like a tanker, was an example of Vidic not really being quick on his feet v top tier nimble dynamic strikers.

For example you wouldn't want Vidic defending against a Romario.

What Moby needs to prove is that Streltsov is that type of player. We know the guy is a technician, but I would like to read some quotes possible footage if there is any about his pace/style of dribbling.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Spoiler: different engles and few replays

@Raees
I wouldnt call that fear, Eto'o pulled something that Vidic didnt expect and thats why he went pass him, it was a poor piece of defending and it had little to do with pace, acceleration or quickness of Vidic turn, at least IMO.
I agree that Romario on paper would be bad for Vidic but what im trying to say is that it isnt always x vs y there are tons of staff you have to take into equation. Vidic is paired with perfect partner in a compact team full of hard working players, they are facing a pretty narrow attack and his focus will mainly be a different striker not Streltsov but even if it was the russian, i wouldnt worry to much cause even though on paper he might have the upper hand(if he is all that what moby says he is) my team as a whole unit is well equipped to defend against him and his type.

 

[Enigma_87]

I don't really need him as a proper box to box given I have Sammer pushing forward and providing the defensive assurance in midfield when we have the ball, but at the same time he was an incredibly hard working and tenacious midfielder who would cover a fair bit of ground and participate in the 'battle'. On the ball, Piksi is the central creative fulcrum of the team while Balakov provides the transition and link up play in midfield similarly to what he did in the 1994 WC for Bulgaria while Stoichkov assumed the centre stage. His constant outball from that area, distribution out to the wingbacks, and combination with Piksi in building up play while putting pressure on the opposition backline are his primary responsibilities. With a five at the back, I can afford to have a rather creative presence in that role and not be too worried about being exposed with Kasperczak and Sammer both ever present to guard any quick turnovers.

I can see Balakov operating in the inside left channel while Piksi drifting wide. Basically Piksi played all over the attack and moved a lot offering a lot of work rate for the midfield in the same time. The reason why asked is because Balakov in his young days was more of a AM/SS and in his latter days he was more of a deeper lying playmaker pinging balls from there. In essence his career was a lot like Scholes and he also loved drifting to the left on occasion.

So in essence you'll be using a bit younger version of him the 94 WC one and Stuttgart one during the same time.

For Sammer I can see him pushing forward and Kasperczak holding when you are with the ball and when they are on the ware of counters, the only player I don't see working well in @Moby team is Shalamanov. I'd say comparing him to Ivanovic or Marzolini is a good one, as he was a balanced full back, operating on the right, good pace on him that could join the attack but he was often advancing at about the halfway line.

Defensively he's a fine and sound player, however RCB position that also has to cover for Sammer's runs and hold the line I'm not sure he'll that good of a fit.

On Sjor's side - I'm not sure of Zsengellér mainly because I know close to nothing on him. Is he in a traditional wing forward role or inside forward interchanging with Hidegkuti or something else? I don't know his strengths in particular as well and whether he's a good fit in that role.

Apart from that - beautifully constructed teams as always from two draft regulars. I like how both have managed to build their teams around their first two picks - Sammer and Hidegkuti and have done a great job as well.

 

[Joga Bonito]

I wouldnt call that fear, Eto'o pulled something that Vidic didnt expect and thats why he went pass him, it was a poor piece of defending and it had little to do with pace, acceleration or quickness of Vidic turn, at least IMO.
I agree that Romario on paper would be bad for Vidic but what im trying to say is that it isnt always x vs y there are tons of staff you have to take into equation.

Agreed with this, that move hadn't much to do with Eto's pace but rather his trickery and his 'fake cross' that made him beat Vidic with Vidic going for a 'block'.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Enigma_87

https://mircea21dominte.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/gyula-zsengeller-in-the-shade-of-puskas/
Years Team Apps (Gls)
1935-36 Salgótarjáni TC 24 (19)
1936-47 Újpest FC 303 (368)
1947-49 AS Roma 34 (6)
1949-50 AC Ancona 30 (18)
1951-53 Deportivo Samarios 37 (23)
National team
1936-47 Hungary 39 (32)

The 100 Greatest Forwards of All-Time

1. Pele (Brazil)
2. Lionel Messi (Argentina)
3. Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugal)
4. Ferenc Puskas (Hungary)
5. Eusebio (Portugal)
6. Karlheinz Rummenigge (Germany)
7. Matthias Sindelar (Austria)
8. Gyorgi Sarosi (Hungary)
9. Laszlo Kubala (Hungary)
10. Thierry Henry (France)
11. Florian Albert (Hungary)
12. Ademir De Menezes (Brazil)
13. Hristo Stoichkov (Bulgaria)
14. Dennis Bergkamp (Holland)
15. Luis Alberto Suarez (Uruguay)
16. Tostao (Brazil)
17. Leonidas Da Silva (Brazil)
18. Gyula Zsengeller (Hungary)
19. Oleg Blokhin (Soviet Union)
20. Raul Gonzalez (Spain)
http://xtraimmortal.blogspot.hr/2014/02/The9x100.html

Inside-Forward

1. Gyorgi Sarosi (Ferencvaros, Hungary)
2. Gyula Zsengeller (Ujpest, Hungary)
3. Jose Manuel Moreno (River Plate, Argentina)
4. Giuseppe Meazza (Inter Milan, Italy)
5. Antonio Sastre (Indepiente, Argentina)
http://xtraimmortal.blogspot.hr/2012/12/Era-Ranking.html

Rank-Goals-Player-Career Span

01---758---PELÉ from 21 years [1956-1977]*
02---681---Ferenc PUSKÁS from 23 years [1943-1966]
03---617---Gerd MÜLLER from 16 years [1965-1981]*
04---553---Uwe SEELER from 18 years [1954-1972]*
05---544---Josef BICAN from 24 years [1931-1955]
06---539---EUSÉBIO from 17 years [1960-1977]*
07---504---Alfredo DI STÉFANO from 21 years [1945-1966]*
08---484---ZICO from 23 years [1971-1994]*
09---477---Imre SCHLOSSER from 23 years [1905-1928]
10---448---Gyula ZSENGELLER from 17 years [1935-1952]
11---448---Fritz WALTER from 20 years [1939-1959]*
12---419---Gunnar NORDAHL from 18 years [1940-1958]

He is right inside forward and a perfect tactical fit for our team, not only he scored for fun in his country but he proved his pedigree at highest level at the time - world cup.
All I know is that if people rate Sárosi, Meazza, Andrade, V Mazzola, Wright, Sindelaar (which they have in previous drafts) - then it's natural to rate him because he played in the same era, and in the same conditions and was even 2nd top scorer after Leônidas in the 1938 World Cup, so it's not like we're pulling him up out of nowhere. So far in this game he was a bit of a passenger which is entirely on me but that should change.

 

[Ecstatic]

Two of my favourite teams.

Moby has built a superb 3-5-2 system.

I'll take the time to read the diverse profiles to make sure I understand all the dynamics.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

game is pretty much dead, not sure when i will be able to connect tomorrow so gg @Moby and good luck in the next game.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Two very well-crafted teams here, but I went for Sjor by the narrowest of margins. Vidic/Ondrus/Pluskal is possibly the strongest defensive spine in the draft, and I don't agree with the argument that Vidic is particularly vulnerable to Streltsov stylistically.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Two very well-crafted teams here, but I went for Sjor by the narrowest of margins. Vidic/Ondrus/Pluskal is possibly the strongest defensive spine in the draft, and I don't agree with the argument that Vidic is particularly vulnerable to Streltsov stylistically.

Cheers, that was the plan really - build a strong core and up front surround Hidegkuti with perfect tactical fits rather then flashy names, i guess it didnt work

 

[harms]

Cheers, that was the plan really - build a strong core and up front surround Hidegkuti with perfect tactical fits rather then flashy names, i guess it didnt work

Build a team around Hidegkuti and then face Sammer in the first round is as unlucky as it gets, really

 

[Gio]

Cheers, that was the plan really - build a strong core and up front surround Hidegkuti with perfect tactical fits rather then flashy names, i guess it didnt work

Although I think Aldo has a very strong team in a clear set-up, I went for you on the basis that you were well placed to counter his considerable strengths. You had some good match-ups - Hidgekuti keeping an eye on Sammer, Pluskal the same on Stojkovic, Klose and Vidic slugging it out. And I thought your full-backs would be very influential given their class on the ball, inclination to attack and space to do so.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Cheers, that was the plan really - build a strong core and up front surround Hidegkuti with perfect tactical fits rather then flashy names, i guess it didnt work

I was going to prioritise defence too given that I was near the bottom of the drafting order but the muppet within put an end to that plan . I'm glad the scoreline here is close as the teams looked very evenly matched to me.

 

[Isotope]

I wasn't a fan of Balakov and Stojkovic positions there because they're both AMC at their best (Balakov was a beast with Stuttgart). Then I remember when Yugo went to that Final, D. Stojkovic was partnering Acimovic in midfield 2 at 4-4-2 system. So I see that midfield 3 could work.

 

[Ecstatic]

Boksic as a left WF was a bold choice, maybe the deciding factor IMO

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Boksic as a left WF was a bold choice, maybe the deciding factor IMO

id say im 99,99% that wasnt the case. Anyways, dont see whats controversial there he is playing in his best position(second striker) in the way the played his whole career.

 

[Skizzo]

id say im 99,99% that wasnt the case. Anyways, dont see whats controversial there he is playing in his best position(second striker) in the way the played his whole career.

You needed a "Berbatov" in there

 

[Enigma_87]

Build a team around Hidegkuti and then face Sammer in the first round is as unlucky as it gets, really

yes, it really was. I like what sjor tried to do here and it was really a close call. I think he had a good fits for his attack - I disagree with a notion here that Vidic would struggle with Streltsov. I've mentioned in the past that Vidic facing pacy and agile forwards is something he could struggle with, but as you mentioned Streltsov doesn't have the pace and explosiveness of Eto'o for example which would be a valid case. Against both of them (Streltsov/Klose) I'd say he'll have a good game.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

yes, it really was. I like what sjor tried to do here and it was really a close call. I think he had a good fits for his attack - I disagree with a notion here that Vidic would struggle with Streltsov. I've mentioned in the past that Vidic facing pacy and agile forwards is something he could struggle with, but as you mentioned Streltsov doesn't have the pace and explosiveness of Eto'o for example which would be a valid case. Against both of them (Streltsov/Klose) I'd say he'll have a good game.

The fact you even have to type that shows the good sleight of hand Moby pulled in focusing discussion onto a matchup (streltsov vs Vidic) that likely would not even occur in a real match IMO.

Klose is lined up on the right of Moby's attack. Vidic on the left. I also take into account that attackers can't really dictate which defender is actually covering them. All they can do is dictate what space they move into never the actual defender. So Moby literally can't say 'Vidic will be on Streltsov'. Attackers can dictate position of attack but defense always dictates who is marking. Klose will always be in and around the box and almost always be the one marked by Vidic while Ondrus will probably always be the one actually on Streltsov. he might want to run at Vidic but instead find Ondrus or Pluskal there instead.

Just for reference here is an image of Klose's WC goals scored (by far his biggest achievement) from position

 

[Gio]

Boksic as a left WF was a bold choice, maybe the deciding factor IMO

I think he's a good fit there and is certainly good enough - one of the classier wide forwards in the draft IMO.

 

[Enigma_87]

The fact you even have to type that shows the good sleight of hand Moby pulled in focusing discussion onto a matchup (streltsov vs Vidic) that likely would not even occur in a real match IMO.

Klose is lined up on the right of Moby's attack. Vidic on the left. I also take into account that attackers can't really dictate which defender is actually covering them. All they can do is dictate what space they move into never the actual defender. So Moby literally can't say 'Vidic will be on Streltsov'. Attackers can dictate position of attack but defense always dictates who is marking. Klose will always be in and around the box and almost always be the one marked by Vidic while Ondrus will probably always be the one actually on Streltsov. he might want to run at Vidic but instead find Ondrus or Pluskal there instead.

Just for reference here is an image of Klose's WC goals scored (by far his biggest achievement) from position

aye agree with that assessment. Having said that naturally in a game Vidic will face Streltsov and Piksi in the course of 90 mins as they are both forwards that drift and move a lot so naturally there will be positional situations where they will face each other. However Streltsov IMO does not fall in the Torres, Eto'o, etc category with which Vidic had issues in the past. Still Vidic is one of the finest defenders from the last 2 decades and in this draft especially top 5, so I expect him to do well facing most of the forwards in the pool.

 

[Ecstatic]

I think he's a good fit there and is certainly good enough - one of the classier wide forwards in the draft IMO.

I like the player, a very talented player who could do a good job here. I do remember his great performances with Marseille (as a CF) and Juventus (Vieri-Boksic-Zidane).

id say im 99,99% that wasnt the case. Anyways, dont see whats controversial there he is playing in his best position(second striker) in the way the played his whole career.

Nothing controversial of course. Let's say I have probably underrated his work-rate and skills on the wing.

Anyway, I haven't voted from the outset because it's was a close game at first sight and then hadn't the time to follow the game yesterday.

Great gifs as usual.

 

[Ecstatic]

Build a team around Hidegkuti and then face Sammer in the first round is as unlucky as it gets, really

Absolutely. Bepo, Moby, Gio, Enigma were part of my top 6.