Behind the Curtain draft (Eastern Europe) | Final| Skizzo vs Gio 18:15

[harms]

@Skizzo @Annahnomoss ________________________________________ @Gio @Theon

The draft thread with lots of additional information
Write-ups on specific players

Skizzo

FORMATION: 4-2-3-1

A blend of creativity, pace, and defensive steel with quality ball players and creativity throughout.

The defensive unit is marshalled by Jan Popluhar, and brings in a defensive stalwart in Nemanja Vidic. The Serbian defender is one of the best at putting his body on the line for the team, and doing whatever needs to be done to stop the attacking threat. He'll be a great foil for the playmaking Popluhar alongside him. The two full backs will play their normal games of up and back, defending when required, and attacking when the opportunity arises, knowing they are well covered by the defense and midfield.

Igor Netto takes up his midfield role alongside Vladimir Jugovic, and the two will look to spring attacks from deep by releasing the ball into the attacking areas, as well as put themselves about defensively.

Zbigniew Boniek, Pavel Nedved, and Dragan Dajic take up the attacking positions behind the striker, and combine to create a devastating blend of pace, skill, and certifiable goal threat. With all of their abilities to beat their defender, as well as being able to rotate and switch positions, their pace and movement will look to unsettle a defense that can be gotten at.

Continuing to lead the line is Andriy Shevchenko, the Ballon D'or winning Ukrainian made his mark on football while playing for Milan, being able to put the ball in the back of the net in a variety of ways. His movement and pace will trouble the defense, and with a solid supply from his supporting cast, he'll fancy his chances of getting on the score sheet.

Gio

TACTICS:

We set up in a rock-solid 4-3-3 formation defined by searing pace out wide and a blend of steel and class through the spine. Two of the strongest full-backs in the pool, Vladimir Bezsonov and Evgeny Lovchev, man the flanks and are well equipped to deal with the wide threats posed by Skizzo. The central defensive unit is led by the great Khurtsilava whose world-class reading, anticipation and positioning will be vital in dealing with Shevchenko and the attacking midfield runners. Next to the elite sweeper/covering centre back we have the perfect complimentary partner in the physical West German stopper 'the Bull' Wolfgang Weber whose athleticism and dynamism makes him one of the standout stoppers in the pool.

The midfield is led by the the peerless Captain Valery Voronin, who will be focused on being defensively watertight and commanding the centre of the park in possession. Completing a solid and intimidating central midfield partnership is Svatopluk Pluskal, arguably the best destroyer in the draft whose pedigree dropping into defence provides a perfect counter to any of Skizzo's midfield runners.

In the hole is the star of the draft in Ferenc Puskas who will relish linking up with such a collection of attacking talent. He renews his incredible partnership with the finest #9 in the pool Sandor Kocsis (75 goals in 68 games internationally). To their right is Barcelona legend Hristo Stoichkov, the 1994 Ballon D'Or winning dynamo who screams goals and penetration. The final piece of the jigsaw is the greatest USSR footballer of them all, 1975 Ballon D'Or winner Oleg Blokhin, the left-sided flying machine whose lightning pace is a constant threat on the counter and who is well set to get in behind Urbanczyk.

WHY WE WILL WIN:

• We have strengths to counter where Skizzo's quality lies. Dzajic faces, in our view, the best right-back in the pool in Bezsonov, while Lovchev's pace and powers of recovery make him a good fit for keeping tabs on Boniek. Meanwhile, Khurtislava's game-reading abilities should match up fairly well to the type of threat posed by Shevchenko. Assuming Deyna or Nedved plays centrally, I fancy us to have an edge in this area with the sheer presence of the formidable Voronin and Pluskal. We all know Voronin's qualities but even more important in squashing this central threat will be the imposing and defensively ruthless Pluskal. In our view Pluskal is the best man in the draft for such a destructive job in front of the defence. He was the keystone behind the two-man midfield, liberating Masopust, that propelled Czechoslovakia to become the first European team to reach a World Cup final outside of the continent.
  
  
• We should control the middle of the park. While Netto is a top tier player in this pool, he is likely to be marooned in this game. Either Jugovic starts to give the midfield balance - and he looks a little out of place amongst this company - or Netto has to play with the handbrake on in a 'work-of-two-men' holding role, which isn't ideal for getting the best out of him.

• Going forward we have a critical advantage on the flanks with the fearsome Blokhin and Stoichkov duo likely to get the better of their respective full-backs. Both were lightning quick, wonderful dribblers and elite level goal-threats who are absolutely devastating on the counter and capable of killing defences off either flank.

• Reuniting the great Puskas-Kocsis partnership - perhaps the greatest attacking duo in the history of international football (Puskas' 83 games producing 84 goals; Kocsis' 68 plundering 75) - may prove undefendable. Not only that, but the wondrous left peg of the galloping major has sensational outlets in Stoichkov and Blokhin, whose collective play-stretching will create space and opportunities aplenty for that most productive of partnerships. Ultimately it's a barnstorming and tournament-winning front four.

 

[Gio]

All the best to Skizzo and Annah, you've done a sound job here.

​

 

[Gio]

PLAYER PROFILES​

IVO VIKTOR
Amongst goalkeepers only Buffon and Yashin have finished higher than the 3rd place Viktor came in the 1976 Ballon D'Or. That was due reward for a sensational year as the bedrock behind Czechoslovakia's Euro 1976 victory. Not that he was a one-season wonder by any stretch, 5 times securing the Czechoslovakia Player of the Year among what was a golden generation of his teammates. Imperious in the air and an exceptional shot stopper.

VLADIMIR BEZSONOV
One of the greatest right-backs of the 1980s and a greyhound down that right flank for Kiev and the USSR. Competitive and sometimes featured in the centre of midfield.

EVGENY LOVCHEV
Electric left-back who was both fleet of foot and quick of mind. Tidy on the ball, shining particularly in the USSR's run to the Olympics final in 1972 when he was also awarded Soviet Union Player of the Year.

WOLFGANG WEBER
Nicknamed the Bull for his imposing and uncompromising style of play, Weber is one of the greatest West German stoppers of all time, one of the biggest icons of Köln's success in the 1960s with Karl-Heinz Schnellinger and Wolfgang Overath, the scorer of West Germany's equalizer in the 1966 final vs England, was the highest ranked defender in the German Footballer of the Year award in 1965, and was voted World Class twice by Kicker. Weber combined excellent man marking skills with tackling intuition, superior heading, and immense commitment to emerge as the defensive anchor for a Köln team that won 2 German championships, and 3 DFB-Pokal titles; apart from turning out 53 times for the West German national team.

MURTAZ KHURTSILAVA
One of the finest Eastern European defenders of all time. His reading of the game, positioning and anticipation were all world-class. Excellent on the ball as well, as shown by his thundering effort off the bar against West Germany in the 1972 European Championships Final.

VALERY VORONIN
Hugely influential in the Soviet Union team of the 1960s, Voronin was a commanding presence in the heart of midfield, was named in the 1962 World Cup team of the tournament and twice won the national Player of the Year award in 1964 and 1965.

SVATOPLUK PLUSKAL
Defensive warhorse who was the backbone behind the Czechoslovakia team that reached the 1962 World Cup final. Imposing and defensively rock solid, his ability to anchor the midfield freed up Masopust so thrillingly in '62. Selected in the 1963 Rest of the World XI amongst a pantheon of greats, he stood out both in midfield and at centre-half. Full profile.

​

FERENC PUSKAS
Serial European Cup winner who would have been a serial Ballon D'Or winner had such an award existed when he was the talisman of both Honved and Hungary. 700+ goal machine behind one of the greatest club sides of all time and one of the greatest international sides of all time.

If a good player has the ball, he should have the vision to spot three options. Puskas always saw at least five.

SANDOR KOCSIS
Incredible goal machine whose phenomenal international record (75 goals in 68 games) stands the test of time. Powerful line leader and consummate number 9.

HRISTO STOICHKOV
Fiery wide-forward who starred for Barcelona in a front three and often in a more talismanic role for Bulgaria. Won the Ballon D'Or in 1994 and brings penetration and punch to the mix. Will love feeding off Sekularac's service, and will equally relish linking up with Lubanski and Blokhin.

OLEG BLOKHIN
Electric wide forward who beat peak Johan Cruyff and Franz Beckenbauer to the Ballon D'Or in 1975. That was part recognition for an outstanding solo effort against Bayern Munich in winning the Super Cup. One of the greatest left-sided attackers of all time.

 

[Skizzo]

All the best to Skizzo and Annah, you've done a sound job here.

​

Same to you and @Theon mate. I'll be back in a bit with some opening thoughts

 

[Annahnomoss]

Vladimir Jugovic

Spoiler

Jugovic is a great fit for this team with his vision, creative playmaking and penetrative passing which exactly what is needed with Netto and Nedved there to make sure that players like Dzajic, Shevchenko but in particular Boniek with his great movement are served on a silver platter.

Spoiler

I highly recommend that you watch his highlight video which has him repeating this sort of magic for 5 minutes.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Gio]

I'm a fan of Jugovic and sometimes he flies under the radar. But I've got two concerns. First is a quality issue - he looks a little out of his depth amongst this rarefied company. Second is I'm not sure he's necessarily defensively strong enough to provide a platform for that midfield when he's up against Ferenc Puskas of all people.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I'm a fan of Jugovic and sometimes he flies under the radar. But I've got two concerns. First is a quality issue - he looks a little out of his depth amongst this rarefied company. Second is I'm not sure he's necessarily defensively strong enough to provide a platform for that midfield when he's up against Ferenc Puskas of all people.

Personally I like both central midfields here. Voronin and Pluskal is a nice pair and behind Puskas they will be more isolated which perfectly suits them while Nedved will add a lot of work rate to Jugo/Netto. I don't think either defense is going to have an upper hand on the opponents attack so a player like Jugovic will add a tonne for players like Dzajic, Boniek and Shevchenko with his great passing range. I think it would be a high scoring affair regardless and trying to limit Puskas would just be a wasted player in comparison to someone like Jugovic who adds another dimension.

 

[harms]

I have to say I was intrigued by the possibility of the tactical surprise by Gio/Theon - putting Metreveli on the right with Stoichkov on the left would've suited Puskas/Kocsis better (and I rate Blokhin higher than Stoichkov and, obviously, Metreveli). Goes without saying that Metreveli has no place in the final though. But still, it would've been interesting, while Blokhin/Stoichkov are not the best tactical fit for the Hungarian fist.

 

[Gio]

I have to say I was intrigued by the possibility of the tactical surprise by Gio/Theon - putting Metreveli on the right with Stoichkov on the left would've suited Puskas/Kocsis better (and I rate Blokhin higher than Stoichkov and, obviously, Metreveli). Goes without saying that Metreveli has no place in the final though. But still, it would've been interesting, while Blokhin/Stoichkov are not the best tactical fit for the Hungarian fist.

I think Puskas fizzing through balls into the channels for Blokhin and Stoichkov to chase is really tasty. They're both excellent at getting beyond the full-back and squaring it across the edge of the six-yard box and who better to attack that than Kocsis? Fundamentally Puskas has got the best left peg in the draft and he can use it at full range here.

With Metreveli, I don't think we would want to fully replicate the Magyars front five. That's just impractical in any modern game where the full-backs typically occupy the widest channels and provide most of the crosses.

 

[Gio]

Personally I like both central midfields here. Voronin and Pluskal is a nice pair and behind Puskas they will be more isolated which perfectly suits them while Nedved will add a lot of work rate to Jugo/Netto. I don't think either defense is going to have an upper hand on the opponents attack so a player like Jugovic will add a tonne for players like Dzajic, Boniek and Shevchenko with his great passing range. I think it would be a high scoring affair regardless and trying to limit Puskas would just be a wasted player in comparison to someone like Jugovic who adds another dimension.

Well I like your central midfield as a fan of both Netto and Jugovic - but only in isolation from the team they're facing. But I don't see how they'll get much of a grip of the game up against Voronin and Pluskal. It's the sort of scenario where Voronin should grab the midfield by the jugular IMO. And the Galloping Major just seems to be running around unchecked filling his boots.

 

[antohan]

@Skizzo, I know the square root of FA about your fullbacks and them not being mentioned, let alone bolded, in the op doesn't inspire much confidence.

 

[Skizzo]

@Skizzo, I know the square root of FA about your fullbacks and them not being mentioned, let alone bolded, in the op doesn't inspire much confidence.

I did a profile for them before the first match and they were linked, I'll add them over since i don't think they got attached

 

[Skizzo]

Well I like your central midfield as a fan of both Netto and Jugovic - but only in isolation from the team they're facing. But I don't see how they'll get much of a grip of the game up against Voronin and Pluskal. It's the sort of scenario where Voronin should grab the midfield by the jugular IMO. And the Galloping Major just seems to be running around unchecked filling his boots.

By that match up that would leave free attackers on our side too? Pluskal and Voronin can't go getting a grip on the match without Nedved et al hanging around the other end filling their boots too. We aren't going to try and man mark Puskas out of the game, but as a team we'll defend and close space for him to operate.

 

[Theon]

I don't think either defense is going to have an upper hand on the opponents attack

I can't agree with that at all to be honest - I think our defence has an easier time of things when comparing all aspects of the two attacks.

Without wanting to break it down too much to individual battles, I think at right wing, left wing, attacking midfield and striker our defence has an easier time than your defence (either through virtue of facing a lesser attacker i.e. Nedved vs Puskas, or by being a better defender i.e. Bezsonov vs Urbanczyk).

Taking right wing for example, I think Stoichkov is a better forward than Boniek and he clearly faces a weaker fullback in Anczok than Boniek does in Lovchev - that's clearly an advantage.

I think it's fairly close on the left wing but I think we have the better individual battle there also - Dzajic and Blokhin are both elite Ballon d'Or winning forwards (with Dzajic potentially having an edge all things considered), but in Bezsonov we believe that we have the best right back in the pool and someone who physically matches well against the trickery of Dzajic.

The area where there is clearly the biggest discrepancy is attacking midfield - Nedved was a fine player but Puskas is the best in the draft and a shoe-in for an all time Top 10 list. Not only is he is the superior player, but the defensive qualities of Voronin / Pluskal far outweigh that of Netto / Jugovic.

 

[Skizzo]

@antohan

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/beh...l-reinforcements.425283/page-28#post-20363515

Zygmunt Anczok

Born March 14, 1946 in Lubliniec (Katowice province), son of John and Mary Ulfig, a graduate of the Technical Energy (1967) and coaching courses at the Katowice Academy of Physical Education (1981), coach class II. Player (177 cm, 79 kg) - left back, a local graduate of Sparta (1959-1963), the player Polonia Bytom (1963-1971, league), Gornik Zabrze (1971-1974), U.S. clubs in Chicago - the Vistula (1975), Katz Chicago 1975-1976) and the Norwegian Skeid Oslo (1977-1979, and league), as the first Polish player in the country. The Polonia Bytom enjoyed phenomenal success of American Football Cup Interligi (1965) and the Cup Rapp (1965), while playing in Górnik (three league seasons, 38 games) was in one year (1972) Polish champion and winner of the Polish Cup. He was 19 years old when he made his debut in the Polish National Team (1965 in a match against Scotland). He played a total of 48 A + 5 games ending his career in red and white team in the away match against Wales (1973). He was a great defender, playing "a thoroughly modern," ie, that it clung to his position, but moving the entire length of the pitch, often including the action offensive team. Fast, strength marathoner. All these demonstrated advantages, among others. the South American tour, when the famous Maracana in Rio de Janeiro had the attackers rivals such as Pele, Garrincha and Tostao. He confirmed it during the Olympic tournament.

Unfortunately, all too frequent injuries (four metatarsal fractures between the Olympics and World Championships in Munich in the FRG and the two operations meniscus in Oslo) made it did not comment further, the expected success. After retiring Competitive (1979) was a coach in his hometown Lubliniec, and after another illness (this time the pain in the hip, surgery and artificial hip), not being already pełnosprawnym, tried his luck in other professions (business, taxi, shop) until eventually had to retire. Awarded the Distinguished Master of Sports, among others. Gold and Silver Medal for Distinguished Achievement and Athletic Gold Cross of Merit (1972). Player of the year 1966. Together with W. Lubańskim occurred in the FIFA All Star Team (1971), who played for Łużnikach to celebrate the parting of the Soviet football goalkeeper Lev Yashin.

 

[Skizzo]

I can't agree with that at all to be honest - I think our defence has an easier time of things when comparing all aspects of the two attacks.

Without wanting to break it down too much to individual battles, I think at right wing, left wing, attacking midfield and striker our defence has an easier time than your defence (either through virtue of facing a lesser attacker i.e. Nedved vs Puskas, or by being a better defender i.e. Bezsonov vs Urbanczyk).

Taking right wing for example, I think Stoichkov is a better forward than Boniek and he clearly faces a weaker fullback in Anczok than Boniek does in Lovchev - that's clearly an advantage.

I think it's fairly close on the left wing but I think we have the better individual battle there also - Dzajic and Blokhin are both elite Ballon d'Or winning forwards (with Dzajic potentially having an edge all things considered), but in Bezsonov we believe that we have the best right back in the pool and someone who physically matches well against the trickery of Dzajic.

The area where there is clearly the biggest discrepancy is attacking midfield - Nedved was a fine player but Puskas is the best in the draft and a shoe-in for an all time Top 10 list. Not only is he is the superior player, but the defensive qualities of Voronin / Pluskal far outweigh that of Netto / Jugovic.

Any perceived discrepancies you list where we're apparently so flawed, we've covered by a central duo better equipped at handling your striker than vice versa. I don't see Weber or Khurtsilava enjoying the movement and runs of Shevchenko as he looks to get in behind.

The Nedved and Puskas comparison is rather a moot point too since they aren't competing, nor did we claim we have a better player there. What we do have though is a different tactic to play on. Nedved gives us a better option than Deyna there in terms of not being as stationary and making Pluskal's job easier. Pluskal is either going to follow him as he moves, or try and pass him off.

We're set up with three fast, tricky players who can all interchange and swap flanks through the game, making it more difficult for your defense to handle that threat. Which, in my opinion, they aren't very well equipped to deal with. Obviously you'll disagree, but I'd have to disagree that you have a match up in apparently every area of the pitch.

 

[Gio]

By that match up that would leave free attackers on our side too? Pluskal and Voronin can't go getting a grip on the match without Nedved et al hanging around the other end filling their boots too. We aren't going to try and man mark Puskas out of the game, but as a team we'll defend and close space for him to operate.

If Voronin and Pluskal get a grip of midfield, Nedved et al slip out of the game. Not that they'll be sidelined entirely, but clearly their influence would be reduced. And if my pair dictate matters in there, that gives Puskas yet more time on the ball to do what he does best.

 

[Moby]

There's no football game that can keep Nedved out of the action.

 

[Theon]

Any perceived discrepancies you list where we're apparently so flawed, we've covered by a central duo better equipped at handling your striker than vice versa. I don't see Weber or Khurtsilava enjoying the movement and runs of Shevchenko as he looks to get in behind.

I'd have to disagree that you have a match up in apparently every area of the pitch.

Taking the last post first - you seem annoyed by that post but I'm not sure what is controversial about it. I do think those areas are an advantage personally, either because the player is better (Kocsis is better than Shevchecko, Stoichkov is better than Boniek, Puskas is better than Nedved IMO) or the defender is better (relevant mostly for the left wing, as the quality of the two attackers is fairly close).

I don't think that anything is unreasonable there quite frankly. And I haven't said that you were flawed anywhere - just giving credit to our players.

On the first part, Vidic matches well against Kocsis in the air so I would agree with that. I don't agree that Shevchenko has the run on Khurtsilava and Weber - they're both terrific defenders in there own right and are well matched as a stopper/sweeper partnership. I agree that Sheva has a pace advantage over Khurtsilava, but that's not a rare thing for covering defenders of that type who often rely on positioning and reading of the game to defend against quick forwards. The majority of great defenders weren't comparatively as quick as the great attackers to be honest (probably a result of defenders being 6 ft plus physically strong blokes).

As a brief point on pace advantage, Blokhin cutting inside of Urbanczyk and Stochkov cutting inside of Anczok will surely cause problems for your team in that respect - neither Vidic or Popluhár were quick centre backs. And Blokhin for a certainty was quicker than Shevchenko.

 

[Gio]

There's no football game that can keep Nedved out of the action.

I agree and it's nice to see him get a central gig for a change. But relatively speaking he's going to have a tougher time influencing the match against a Voronin/Pluskal central midfield axis than what Ferenc Puskas will have against Netto/Jugovic.

 

[Ecstatic]

You can't make an all-time starting 11 without Puskas, Kocsis.

On the other hand, Skizzo/Annah possess the best wingers and his offensive players together are likely to offer a higher work-rate in terms of defensive contribution.

Looking forward to reading the discussions.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

@Skizzo, I know the square root of FA about your fullbacks and them not being mentioned, let alone bolded, in the op doesn't inspire much confidence.

I thought the same thing and found a crazy story for Urbanczyk. Doesn't say much about his ability but can't question his heart.

"The other injury happened while he and his team were in Eindhoven for a UEFA Cup-game. Urbanczyk saved many people from a fire in the hotel of the team but got heavily injured. After this injury Urbanczyk never fully recovered and ended his career in 1972."

http://www.pesmitidelcalcio.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3803

 

[Gio]

On the other hand, Skizzo/Annah possess the best wingers and his offensive players together are likely to offer a higher work-rate in terms of defensive contribution.

I'm not convinced about that. Yeah I get that Nedved will put a shift in, but so will Blokhin especially relative to Dzajic, while Stoichkov was an angry dynamo when he got riled up. And where it really matters, in the centre of the park, it's impossible to have any more work rate than what Pluskal and Voronin bring to the table.

 

[Tuppet]

I am a bit confused with Puskas positioning here in Gion's team. From whatever I've seen and read Puskas was a complete and prolific forward but hardly a number 10 who would mix it up in midfield as much as someone like Nedved. In the golden team that role was Hidegkuti's and in Real Stefano's. To me it looks much more like 4-2-4 rather than a 4-3-3 and Skizzo should have a better control of midfield.

Having said that Gion's defense is better and that attack - even though I don't think its more than sum of its part - is still scary. Tough one this.

 

[Skizzo]

Taking the last post first - you seem annoyed by that post but I'm not sure what is controversial about it. I do think those areas are an advantage personally, either because the player is better (Kocsis is better than Shevchecko, Stoichkov is better than Boniek, Puskas is better than Nedved IMO) or the defender is better (relevant mostly for the left wing, as the quality of the two attackers is fairly close).

I don't think that anything is unreasonable there quite frankly. And I haven't said that you were flawed anywhere - just giving credit to our players.

On the first part, Vidic matches well against Kocsis in the air so I would agree with that. I don't agree that Shevchenko has the run on Khurtsilava and Weber - they're both terrific defenders in there own right and are well matched as a stopper/sweeper partnership. I agree that Sheva has a pace advantage over Khurtsilava, but that's not a rare thing for covering defenders of that type who often rely on positioning and reading of the game to defend against quick forwards. The majority of great defenders weren't comparatively as quick as the great attackers to be honest (probably a result of defenders being 6 ft plus physically strong blokes).

As a brief point on pace advantage, Blokhin cutting inside of Urbanczyk and Stochkov cutting inside of Anczok will surely cause problems for your team in that respect - neither Vidic or Popluhár were quick centre backs. And Blokhin for a certainty was quicker than Shevchenko.

Not annoyed by it, I understand we'll have different perspectives, and while I don't want to imply you're lying, I know we'll both be biased towards our teams and set ups and our posts will portray that. I just wanted to point out that I did disagree that you have an advantage in every match up.

The pace advantage goes both ways, as our wingers have the same advantage, and I think we have better cover for that than vice versa.

Anczok also has great pace to help in his match up with Stoichkov, and Urbanczyk was known for his defending and timing in the tackle. Neither of them will lock them down and shut them out of the game, but your posts so far have put a "matter of fact" spin on your points that seem to imply them as a given that our defense can't cope with your attack while you have enough to stop us without much fuss.

 

[Theon]

Genuinely think we're stronger across the park so shocked at the score here - certainly one of the stranger games I've been involved in.

Any explanation for the vote @Raees @green_smiley @paulscholes18

 

[Theon]

Not annoyed by it, I understand we'll have different perspectives, and while I don't want to imply you're lying, I know we'll both be biased towards our teams and set ups and our posts will portray that.

Which part are you even hinting at here?

Like I said I don't see any of it as controversial at all. Where at all is there any semblance of a lie? Serious question, I'm honestly not seeing it.

 

[Skizzo]

Which part are you even hinting at here?

Like I said I don't see any of it as controversial at all. Where at all is there any semblance of a lie? Serious question, I'm honestly not seeing it.

My point was that I don't believe you're lying in saying your team is better, but I can't agree that you're better in every single match up.

Genuinely think we're stronger across the park so shocked at the score here - certainly one of the stranger games I've been involved in.

Any explanation for the vote @Raees @green_smiley @paulscholes18

Also I thought we weren't supposed to be making references to votes or the score anymore? Especially 3 hours into a game.

Tbf, if you're so shocked that people voted for us over you, there probably won't be much point in trying to have a discussion with you.

 

[Theon]

My point was that I don't believe you're lying in saying your team is better, but I can't agree that you're better in every single match up.

Also I thought we weren't supposed to be making references to votes or the score anymore? Especially 3 hours into a game.

Tbf, if you're so shocked that people voted for us over you, there probably won't be much point in trying to have a discussion with you.

Mate, you're getting irritated again for no reason.

On the first part - okay fine, if you disagree can you just explicitly tell me which ones you disagree with. I spent time writing a post and you keep saying you disagree with it (and make a bizzare reference to lying) but won't actually state what it is you disagree with.

I think we DO have an advantage in those four attacking areas - fine if you disagree, but you have to actually provide some sort of explanation and not just resort to calling me bias.

On the second part, I'm not shocked that people would vote for you (again with the unnecessary hyperbole), but yeah I am shocked at the score as IMO we have the better team by quite a margin. We've had very little feedback so I don't see the issue with asking for it - hopefully it will stimulate some discussion.

 

[Moby]

I agree and it's nice to see him get a central gig for a change. But relatively speaking he's going to have a tougher time influencing the match against a Voronin/Pluskal central midfield axis than what Ferenc Puskas will have against Netto/Jugovic.

But then as a midfield battle it is 3v2 given Nedved is pretty much a midfielder and would fully participate as one whereas Puskas is a forward and would rarely be a combative presence like Nedved.

 

[Gio]

I am a bit confused with Puskas positioning here in Gion's team. From whatever I've seen and read Puskas was a complete and prolific forward but hardly a number 10 who would mix it up in midfield as much as someone like Nedved. In the golden team that role was Hidegkuti's and in Real Stefano's. To me it looks much more like 4-2-4 rather than a 4-3-3 and Skizzo should have a better control of midfield.

Having said that Gion's defense is better and that attack - even though I don't think its more than sum of its part - is still scary. Tough one this.

It's not a 4-3-3 any more, closer to a 4-2-3-1 IMO - think that's a fair reflection of the set-up and what the other two central midfielders bring to the mix. The debate around Puskas and his position is a longstanding one on the Caf. My take is that he is completely proven at 10 and 9 and everything inbetween.

Certainly we wouldn't be looking for him to mix it up in midfield in the manner that Nedved woud. But we would look for him to get on the ball in that area between the two CMs and Kocsis. Hungary were very fluid and Puskas would often drop into deeper areas to get on the ball which would allow Hidegkuti to push forward or for Czibor to cut inside.

Interestingly in the last game there was clearly a view that Sekularac was too much of a dribbler and not enough of a passer to get the best out of Blokhin and Stoichkov. Now we have replaced him with that wand of a left foot with its fantastic range and punishing accuracy and it's still getting questioned. But I see quite clearly how well it would work. The movement of Czibor and Blokhin is very similar: they were both rapid left-sided attackers who could stretch the play and cut inside towards the goal. And we know how well he dovetailed with Sandor.

 

[Ecstatic]

I'm not convinced about that. Yeah I get that Nedved will put a shift in, but so will Blokhin especially relative to Dzajic, while Stoichkov was an angry dynamo when he got riled up. And where it really matters, in the centre of the park, it's impossible to have any more work rate than what Pluskal and Voronin bring to the table.

I just mean your front 4 is 'more offensive', which is not a criticism or an issue in itself, especially since you have great CM and full-backs with a high work-rate.

You have 2 extremely prolific scorers against 1 for Skizzo/Annah: each team has its pros and cons.

 

[Skizzo]

Mate, you're getting irritated again for no reason.

On the first part - okay fine, if you disagree can you just explicitly tell me which ones you disagree with. I spent time writing a post and you keep saying you disagree with it (and make a bizzare reference to lying) but won't actually state what it is you disagree with.

I think we DO have an advantage in those four attacking areas - fine if you disagree, but you have to actually provide some sort of explanation and not just resort to calling me bias.

On the second part, I'm not shocked that people would vote for you (again with the unnecessary hyperbole), but yeah I am shocked at the score as IMO we have the better team by quite a margin. We've had very little feedback so I don't see the issue with asking for it - hopefully it will stimulate some discussion.

Again, I'm not irritated at all, not sure how else to convey that other than to keep saying it.

Your post seemed consisted of the following point

"Our winger is better, and your defender is worse, advantage us"

And then repeated that for the other wing and the attacking mid.

I'm not sure how to really pick that analysis apart to dispute other than saying I'd have to disagree with your assessment. Don't see why I need to provide some sort of explanation if you don't.

You said your shocked at the score, said it's one of the strangest games you've been involved in, and asked people their reasoning. Don't think it was hyperbolic so suggest you seem bemused people would vote against your team in favour of ours.

 

[Gio]

But then as a midfield battle it is 3v2 given Nedved is pretty much a midfielder and would fully participate as one whereas Puskas is a forward and would rarely be a combative presence like Nedved.

I think if you're going down the numbers route, we could just as easily point to the advantage on the left given the work rate gulf between Lobanovskiy automaton Blokhin and Dzajic. Ultimately it's 11 v 11 and nobody would sacrifice Puskas for Nedved in any central role, certainly not when we've set him in front of the two hardest working and defensively responsible midfielders in the entire pool.

 

[Enigma_87]

I don't believe Pluskal(as good as he is) will keep Nedved out of the game. Gio/Theon's team looks more of 4-2-4 than 4-2-3-1 with Puskas role being the decider here.

It's a tough one and I'm on the fence a bit due to the unbelievable quality in attack for Gio/Theon, but @Gio saying Voronin/Pluskal getting the grip of the midfield on paper looks fine, but who is going to run the game for them? There's no playmaker in that team and IMO that team is more set up for counter attacking play rather than controlling the game?

Gio/Theon have the better defence as individuals and generally the better individuals on the pitch, but Skizzo/Annah team is pretty much spot on with a lot of synergy between the lines.

Skizzo/Annah's team with outwork and control the midfield for me which would cut the supply for Puskas/Kocsis and co. I find it hard to believe Voronin and Pluskal would control the game against a midfield of Netto/Jugovic/Nedved and Boniek.

 

[Theon]

"Our winger is better, and your defender is worse, advantage us"

Don't think it was hyperbolic so suggest you seem bemused people would vote against your team in favour of ours.

It wasn't quite put as simply as that, but in effect that is what I was saying yes - again though which one do you disagree with?

Stoichkov is IMO better than Boniek and he is facing a worse fullback in Anczok when compared to Lovchev. Do you not see that as an advantage?

You've again not explained what it is specifically that you disagree with.

On the second part, there's a difference in being surprised at the score and being surprised at a particular vote - I said the former and you turned it into the latter, which was hyperbolic.

 

[Gio]

I don't believe Pluskal(as good as he is) will keep Nedved out of the game. Gio/Theon's team looks more of 4-2-4 than 4-2-3-1 with Puskas role being the decider here.

It's a tough one and I'm on the fence a bit due to the unbelievable quality in attack for Gio/Theon, but @Gio saying Voronin/Pluskal getting the grip of the midfield on paper looks fine, but who is going to run the game for them? There's no playmaker in that team and IMO that team is more set up for counter attacking play rather than controlling the game?

Gio/Theon have the better defence as individuals and generally the better individuals on the pitch, but Skizzo/Annah team is pretty much spot on with a lot of synergy between the lines.

Skizzo/Annah's team with outwork and control the midfield for me which would cut the supply for Puskas/Kocsis and co. I find it hard to believe Voronin and Pluskal would control the game against a midfield of Netto/Jugovic/Nedved and Boniek.

Some fair comments there Enigma, but a couple I have to challenge.

I think you're underestimating how capable Voronin was of running a game. He linked defence with midfield not just with his ability to go box-to-box but also his quality on the ball.

Secondly, I'm not sure why Boniek and Nedved become part of the midfield "battle" when the same doesn't apply for our own wide players. And if Skizzo's attacking players are more involved in defensive duties recovering possession, it seriously blunts what attacking output they can produce.

While I agree that Skizzo's team is well designed on its own merits, I don't think it is particularly well set up to facing someone like Puskas nor does it have the top-end full-backs to deal with Blokhin and Stoichkov. Critical match-changing differences IMO.

 

[Skizzo]

It wasn't quite put as simply as that, but in effect that is what I was saying yes - again though which one do you disagree with?

Stoichkov is IMO better than Boniek and he is facing a worse fullback in Anczok when compared to Lovchev. Do you not see that as an advantage?

You've again not explained what it is specifically that you disagree with.

On the second part, there's a difference in being surprised at the score and being surprised at a particular vote - I said the former and you turned it into the latter, which was hyperbolic.

Starting with the last part, you can't question the score without questioning the votes. To suggest you find people voting for us surprising, since you're surprised by the score, isn't hyperbolic at all. I feel like either way, to question a score and people's votes 4 hours in is odd, but since we're going down a rabbit hole already, I'll drop it

I offered my take on the match up in my first response to you. I didn't break it down into one on one match ups necessarily, because I see our advantage as a unit. I made reference to that in the combination of our attacking mids, as well as in our defensive unit matching up and covering each other better than I believe yours would.

I feel overall throughout the draft we tried to focus on creating a complementary side that was greater than the sum of its parts, and I feel we achieved that, and also that it would provide advantages for us here too.

 

[Annahnomoss]

It wasn't quite put as simply as that, but in effect that is what I was saying yes - again though which one do you disagree with?

Stoichkov is IMO better than Boniek and he is facing a worse fullback in Anczok when compared to Lovchev. Do you not see that as an advantage?

You've again not explained what it is specifically that you disagree with.

On the second part, there's a difference in being surprised at the score and being surprised at a particular vote - I said the former and you turned it into the latter, which was hyperbolic.

Netto was excellent as a LCM and would add a lot to that left area of ours which would benefit Dzajic tremendously. On the right side nothing stops Nedved from at times using that space to receive a ball and burst forward linking together with Boniek. It isn't just about the winger vs winger quality, but as important is how they are supported and in terms of Jugovic, he adds a lot here with his great passing range to find Boniek/Sheva/Dzajiic behind the defense or with enough space to get by their full back.

 

[Skizzo]

Based on the player profiles provided by the managers


One of the greatest right-backs of the 19??s And a greyhound down the right flank

Vs

At the beginning of the 19??s, He was held to be one of the best right defenders in the world, on account of his speed and his slide-tackling skill

And then

Electric left-back who was both fleet of foot and quick of mind. Tidy on the ball, shining particularly in the USSR's run to the Olympics final in 1972 when he was also awarded Soviet Union Player of the Year.

Vs

He was a great defender, playing "a thoroughly modern," game, ie, that he clung to his position, but moving the entire length of the pitch, often including the action offensive team. Fast, strong, endurance. Player of the year 1966. Together with W. Lubańskim occurred in the FIFA All Star Team (1971)

I fail to see where any of this leads to an obvious advantage to one team and the other is being torn to shreds. Taking the names out, you would barely be able to tell which description is referring to which player.