Behind the Curtain draft (Eastern Europe) | QF | Enigma_87 vs Gio 5:12

[harms]

@Enigma_87 __________________________________________________ @Gio


The draft thread with lots of additional information
Write-ups on specific players

Enigma_87

Tactical layout
Lopsided 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1
Normal, slightly deeper defensive line, fast direct tempo. Pressing the opposition when off the ball. Looking for punishing the opposition on counters with 2 skilled and fast wingers in Gadocha and Boniek.
Solid and technical defensive unit - Belodedici will move up when we're in possession link with midfield, Novak will play a balanced role and also distribute the ball from the left when in possession. Dzodzuashvili will also play in a balanced role in this game. Both with Novak will cover the runs Stoichkov and Blokhin would make and generally will play in more closed and deeper line compared to the last game, limiting the space for Belanov, Blokhin and Stoichkov.
When Belodedici moves vertically Zakarias will drop back to an aggressive stopper role, just like he played for the Mighty Magyars.
When either of the full backs moves up to support the attack, the other one will stay back and along with Zakarias, Belodedici and Khurtsilava will form a 4 man defensive line all the time to cover Gio's attack and intercept possible counters.

Midfield - Modric in his Real role - dictating the game from deep, distributing the ball looking for openings and linking up with Boniek, Gadocha and Kubala. Zakarias will play a holding role and take care of most of our defensive game in midfield. Kubala will be the AM/#10 role with a free role linking up with Suker and also providing passes for Gadocha, Suker and Boniek, but also finishing chances himself in his Barca goalscoring mode which made him the top scorer of the club before Messi.

Boniek, Zakarias and Modric - all will participate in the defensive phase of the game pressing the opposition and getting the ball back.

Attack - versatile, mobile attack with a striker possessing great interplay, positional sense and finishing abilities. Suker will lead the line, look for openings and dragging defenders out of position to make space for Kubala and Boniek charging the box. Gadocha will be a pure outside winger that will stretch the play on the left, provide his excellent crosses and direct passes into the box. Kubala in his goalscoring mode as a free roaming attacker.

Focal point - Kubala in free role will look for openings, stretch the opposition on the right and finish off chances on his own. Suker, Boniek and Modric provide the perfect stage for him to shine. Very technical side that are on the same wavelength in attack.

Boniek will be all action winger/attacker who also will put his great work rate into action to help the midfield. I expect Boniek to form a really great partnership with Kubala like in his Juve days with Platini. The synergy would be great.

Player descriptions and profiles:

Yevgeniy Rudakov - GK - one of the best in Soviet history, probably only Yashin and Dasaev come before him - More information about Rudakov

Ladislav Novák - LB - considered one of the best left backs of all time, he was left-back with good fighting spirit, fast, clever and had excellent header. He can go to overlap to join attack and give passing from left-side. One of the best of his generation and with most achievements from that era. - More information about Novak

Murtaz Khurtsilava - CB - One of the very best Soviet defenders of all time, and also in the pool. First Georgian to captain the USSR side. Excellent man marker.

Miodrag Belodedici - Sweeper/Complete defender - One of the classiest defenders you’ll see was Miodrag Belodedici. The Romanian won the European Cup with Steaua a few years earlier and was given the key role in Red Star’s defence. Belodedici played as the libero, sweeping up behind the other defenders, controlled the defence after his will and regularly stepped up with the ball to initiate attacks. - More information on Belodedici

Revaz Dzodzuashvili - RB - He's one(if not the best Georgian defenders of all time) and one of the best Soviet full backs. Dzodzuashvili started his career as striker, moving on to midfield and eventually ended up in defence. First as center back but than due to his great speed started to play as right back. He was excellent man marker, famous for completely shutting out from the game some of the best players in that era like - Best, Lubanski, Džajić and Heynckes. - More information on Dzodzuashvili

Jozsef Zakariás - holding midfielder - member of the great Mighty Magyars team he was the main operator in the defensive phase. Solid midfielder who was responsible of taking care of covering distance and getting the ball back but also being an auxiliary CB in that Hungary team playing as an aggressive stopper.

Luca Modric - complete midfielder - not much to say apart that he's the best Croatian player ever(along with Davor Suker) and the best midfielder in modern football. Great in both offensive and defensive game he's one of the most important players for Real in their 2 time CL winning teams

Zbigniew Boniek - right winger - marvelous footballer that could make Cruyff and Michels proud. Boniek was a total footballer. An extraordinary combination of deadly pace, guile, determination, technical skill and dribbling ability. Boniek could head, shoot, pass all in excellent measure.

Laszlo Kubala - Free roaming forward - Awarded the best player in Barcelona's history, which goes without saying that he was one of the best in the world in his time. Undisputed leader he was the Barca's Alfredo Di Stefano and a player that left a great mark for the Catalan club.

“He was just unstoppable, he had so many moves opponents didn’t have a clue what to expect” reflected former Los Cules teammate Joan Sergarra on the official FIFA website.

“He’d go past one, two, three with style and ease, and then either put a chance on a plate or smash the ball home himself.”

More info on Kubala

Roberd Gadocha - left winger - Poland is a country notable of producing some great wingers, but the top three are undoubtedly Lato, Boniek and Gadocha. The latter was a probably Poland's best ever pure winger, and in the early 1970's was regarded as one of the world's best left wingers. More info on Gadocha.

Davor Suker - central forward - What made Šuker really special was not his blistering pace as he wasn't that type of forward. Instead he had one of the best shooting techniques, coupled with excellent positional sense and movement around and out of the box. Add to that his special skills on the ball and you have one of the most complete strikers that graced the 90's. More info on Suker.

Why we will win:

Defense - An upgrade to the 1972 USSR team defence. Some of the best full backs historically in the pool that are well rounded and balanced. Belodedici who is a pillar in 2 CL winning teams from Eastern Europe and all round defender and sweeper. Khurtsilava - excellent man marker and one of the best in the pool and Zakarias with his ability to drop down in defence make a perfect cohesion in that defensive unit.

Familiar defence and keeper - Rudakov, Khurtsilava and Dzodzuashvili have played together in that UEFA 72 European championship run - all three of them are very familiar with their style and have shut down some formidable opponents - the very best wingers/forwards in that era.

Exciting midfield and attack - Kubala and Suker are one of the very best forwards in the pool, complimented with Modric, Gadocha and Boniek they form a well oiled, technical unit that has many goals in them coupled with fantastic movement. Two excellent wingers in Boniek and Gadocha providing the pace and stretching the opposition, combined with the excellent technical ability of Kubala and Suker who would get in the end of chances with their top notch finishing.

Aggressive midfield with some of the best players on the ball - we can keep and move the ball with ease in midfield with some of the biggest names historically in the pool - Zakarias, Modric, Kubala, etc.

Gio

TACTICS:

We set up in a 4-3-3 defined by searing pace out wide and a blend of steel and class through the spine. Two of the strongest full-backs in the pool, Vladimir Bezsonov and Evgeny Lovchev, man the flanks and will be expected to squeeze out Gadocha and Boniek respectively. The central defensive unit is led by West German stopper 'the Bull' Wolfgang Weber whose athleticism and dynamism makes him one of the standout stoppers in the pool. Alongside him one of the finest Soviet Union defenders of all time in Anatoliy Bashashkin can cover in behind any space sought by Suker but will also kickstart many of our moves on the ball. The midfield is led by the captain and peerless Valery Voronin who will be focused on commanding the centre of the park. Forming a rock solid central midfield partnership is Svatopluk Pluskal who will be primarily tasked with hunting down Kubala. The two rugged physical players should match up well to one another. Conjuring from midfield is one of the handful of truly special Eastern European no 10s in Dragan Sekularac. His exceptional close control and passing range should often be too much for Zakarias to handle and should provide the attack with a steady stream of service. On the right of the attack is Hristo Stoichkov, a swashbuckling Ballon D'Or winning pocket dynamo. He screams goals and penetration. The point of the attack is the complete no 9 Wlodek Lubanski who was such a tour de force for Górnik Zabrze and Poland and should link up well with those around him. The final piece of the jigsaw is 1975 Ballon D'Or winner Oleg Blokhin, the left-sided flying machine, who should have the edge on Dzodzuashvili and create opportunities from the left.

WHY WE WILL WIN:

• Fortunately we have strengths to counter where Enigma's quality lies. Both Godocha and Boniek present plenty of counter attacking punch down the flanks, but we have two rapid full-backs in Bezsonov and Lovchev to match up to them well and limit their influence on the game.
• Meanwhile, the imposing and defensively ruthless Pluskal is perhaps the best man in the draft to square up to Kubala. He was the keystone behind the two-man midfield, liberating Masopust, that propelled Czechoslovakia to become the first European team to reach a World Cup final outside of the continent.
• I fancy us to have the edge in midfield. Voronin is the best midfielder on the park, and should be fully freed up here to dictate the game. That should provide an excellent platform for Sekularac to shine and he should have the edge in the head-to-head match-up with Zakarias.
• Blokhin and Stoichkov flank Lubanski in a barnstorming, fluid and penetrating attack. Lubanski is just the man to gel the trio together and create space for the two Ballon D'Or winners on either side of him.

 

[Gio]

All the best Enigma.

 

[Gio]

PLAYER PROFILES​

Spoiler: Defence

IVO VIKTOR
Amongst goalkeepers only Buffon and Yashin have finished higher than the 3rd place Viktor came in the 1976 Ballon D'Or. That was due reward for a sensational year as the bedrock behind Czechoslovakia's Euro 1976 victory. Not that he was a one-season wonder by any stretch, 5 times securing the Czechoslovakia Player of the Year among what was a golden generation of his teammates. Imperious in the air and an exceptional shot stopper.

VLADIMIR BEZSONOV
One of the greatest right-backs of the 1980s and a greyhound down that right flank for Kiev and the USSR. Competitive and sometimes featured in the centre of midfield.

EVGENY LOVCHEV
Electric left-back who was both fleet of foot and quick of mind. Tidy on the ball, shining particularly in the USSR's run to the Olympics final in 1972 when he was also awarded Soviet Union Player of the Year.

WOLFGANG WEBER
Nicknamed the Bull for his imposing and uncompromising style of play, Weber is one of the greatest West German stoppers of all time, one of the biggest icons of Köln's success in the 1960s with Karl-Heinz Schnellinger and Wolfgang Overath, the scorer of West Germany's equalizer in the 1966 final vs England, was the highest ranked defender in the German Footballer of the Year award in 1965, and was voted World Class twice by Kicker. Weber combined excellent man marking skills with tackling intuition, superior heading, and immense commitment to emerge as the defensive anchor for a Köln team that won 2 German championships, and 3 DFB-Pokal titles; apart from turning out 53 times for the West German national team.

ANATOLIY BASHASHKIN
Regarded as one of the finest Soviet Union defenders of all time despite retiring before the 1960s golden generation conquered Europe. That's testament to his performances during the 1950s when he led the Soviet defence to two consecutive Olympic finals in '52 and '56, winning the latter. In what was a goal-strewn era, it was remarkable just how tight a ship Bashashkin ran: they conceded just 2 goals in 5 games, never conceding before the 90th minute of any tie. He was well regarded for his leadership, competitiveness as a defender, and ability on the ball to kickstart counter-attacks and spray passes out to wide attackers.

Spoiler: Midfield

VALERY VORONIN
Hugely influential in the Soviet Union team of the 1960s, Voronin was a commanding presence in the heart of midfield, was named in the 1962 World Cup team of the tournament and twice won the national Player of the Year award in 1964 and 1965.

SVATOPLUK PLUSKAL
Defensive warhorse who was the backbone behind the Czechoslovakia team that reached the 1962 World Cup final. Imposing and defensively rock solid, his ability to anchor the midfield freed up Masopust so thrillingly in '62. Selected in the 1963 Rest of the World XI amongst a pantheon of greats, he stood out both in midfield and at centre-half. Full profile.

ALEXSANDER ZAVAROV
Nimble and technically delightful midfielder who was even compared to Maradona. Typically considered the star of the 1980s Kiev side and voted 6th, 8th, 17th and 19th in the Ballon D'Or, he was capable of the sublime but always grafted hard in Lebanovskiy's industrious set-up.

DRAGAN SEKULARAC
Held in rarefied levels of esteem in Belgrade, Seki was a quick and crafty inside-right who stands alongside any others produced by Yugoslavia and its successor states. Much sought after by Juventus in the late 1950s, he was later named in the 1960 Euro Team of the Tournament, one of 5 stars of Red Star, and ranked as the 8th greatest attacking midfielder of all-time by France Football in 1985.

Spoiler: Attack

HRISTO STOICHKOV
Fiery wide-forward who starred for Barcelona in a front three and often in a more talismanic role for Bulgaria. Won the Ballon D'Or in 1994 and brings penetration and punch to the mix. Will love feeding off Sekularac's service, and will equally relish linking up with Lubanski and Blokhin.

IGOR BELANOV
Busy attacker who had the energy and appetite to buzz around a main centre-forward. Often had to piss in the bottle to satisfy drug testers who were as impressed as everyone else with his Duracell Bunny performances. An unfashionable winner of the 1986 Ballon D'Or, but well deserved for a barnstorming World Cup in Mexico following up on his 1985 Cup Winners Cup success.

OLEG BLOKHIN
Electric wide forward who beat peak Johan Cruyff and Franz Beckenbauer to the Ballon D'Or in 1975. That was part recognition for an outstanding solo effort against Bayern Munich in winning the Super Cup. One of the greatest left-sided attackers of all time.

WLODEK LUBANSKI
A complete centre-forward - very quick, excellent finisher - be it in the box off either foot, in the air, or from range - adept at working the front line, pressing from the front dovetailing with other creative players. Won the UEFA Golden Player Award for Poland as their standout from the last 50 years. Precocious talent having made his goalscoring debut for the national team at just 16 in a national team career of 75 appearances and 48 goals. Used to tear it up in Europe a for Gornik Zabrze, scoring against United in 1968 (pushing them dangerously close to an exit on their way to the big one), Rangers in 1969 and is one of the all-time top scorers in the Cup Winners Cup (and has the best ratio amongst all the top players including the likes of Gerd Muller and Hristo Stoichkov). Featured in a World XI in 1971 for Yashin's farewell game.

 

[Enigma_87]

Thanks for setting it up @harms

Good luck @Gio @Theon !

Voting for myself to see the score you guys can do the same if you want.

 

[Enigma_87]

From first look and looking at the teams and formation it's pretty similar, so probably it will come to individual battles and whoever wins the 1 on 1 challenges.

IMO we have a better defence overall which gives us the edge in this game.

Both Belodedici and Kurtsilava can claim to be the best CB's on the pitch and especially Khurtsilava and Dzodzuashvili and Rudakov - all have played each other and in a team so that elevates them to another level.

Dzodzuashvili and Novak are exactly the types of full backs to cope with Stoichkov and Blokhin. Both have the credentials and both have played as a CB and full backs in their careers. Especially in balanced role when they are not supposed to provide the main width in the team - something we have in Gadocha and Boniek.

The midfield is comparable I'd say. Modric and Voronin the best on the park and Zakarias and Pluskal being the sidekicks of Bozsik and Masopust are playing in a similar role.

Attack is also about even in terms of quality IMO and I can see both midfields slugging it out. We have Boniek who will help, something I can't see Sekularac providing in terms of cover as he's the lazy type.

 

[Skizzo]

This should be a tasty one. Good luck to all of you, I look forward to seeing it develop!

 

[Enigma_87]

This should be a tasty one. Good luck to all of you, I look forward to seeing it develop!

Thanks mate. And if I may quote you on Khurtsilava :

He played against many powerful forwards during his playing career and was a killer defender. He gained this reputation with a respected style of play. Speaking of his own style, he explained that if an opponent team has a strongly pronounced player, he should be paid special attention. During his career, Murtaz never forced attackers with aggressive attempts. He preferred to use an easy, preemptive tactic, like stealing opponent’s ball in 2-3 positions back to back, destroying him psychologically, making him doubt his talents. Dinamo forward Vladimir Kozlov, while speaking of Murtaz, frankly said that he never saw him kick someone or hit someone intentionally in order to win a struggle. That’s because in his opinion, aggression will bring unpleasantness to audience and added ;

“Fair-play for me means that keeping in mind that player against you is also your colleague. If you respect him, you will be respected too.”

Famous USSR trainer Nikolay Starostin described him as a guy never thinking of any combination or a counter attack, focusing just on player he will be marking during the match. When he marked famous forward of Italian National Team, Alessandro Mazzola in the World Cup, he left an impression on every football fan.



“Murtaz never loved someone telling him what to do, how to do, how to mark a player. He was just asking opponent’s shirt number.” said Yozhef Szabo, a former Soviet player. Totally aware of his duties on the pitch, Murtaz was always on the pitch to fulfill them.

and a bit on Boniek:

Boniek is quite possibly the most talented Polish player ever, along with Górnik Zabrze’s Włodzimierz Lubański and Legia Warsaw’s Kazimierz Deyna. Indeed in 2004, he was the only Polish player included in Pele’s FIFA 100 list. Starting out at Zawisza Bydgoszcz, ‘Zibi’ moved on to Widzew Łódź in 1975 leading the small club to Polish and European success and famous victories over Manchester United, Juventus and Liverpool. In 1982 Juventus paid $1.8 million for his services, at that time a colossal fee. In Turin, Zibi teamed up excellently with Platini and led Juventus to European Cup glory in 1985. He was a fan’s favourite at Juve, earning the somewhat ambiguous nickname ‘Bello di notte’ – ‘Beautiful by night’ for his wonderful performances in evening fixtures. Boniek spent the last three years of his professional career in Italy with Roma.

Zibi was almost as successful on the international stage. Boniek’s playing career spanned most of Poland’s remarkable period at the top of the world game. Over 14 years the country won the Olympic Games and finished third in two World Cups. Boniek was most influential in the 1982 World Cup where a Polish side also containing Grzegorz Lato and Włodzimierz Smolarek won a bronze medal. In a wonderful second round game against Belgium, Boniek scored a superb hat-trick. His first was a smashing shot after a cross by Lato, his second a clever headed goal. His hat-trick was the result of a wonderful team move which ended with Boniek rounding the goalkeeper, Theo Custers, and finishing with aplomb.

Zibi may have been wonderfully talented but he was also a deeply controversial figure; something highlighted in an excellent new book by Polish journalist Marek Wawrzynowski. The book Wielki Widzew’ ‘The Great Widzew’ is, amongst other things, a character study of Boniek during his time at the Łódź club. Here, Boniek is shown to be a magician on the pitch, someone blessed with supreme belief allowing him to make the absolute most of his technical ability. Boniek set out to be the best and his steely determination made sure this was the case.

 

[Gio]

As Enigma said, the systems are fairly similar and it's more about how we see the head-to-head stuff panning out. I think we have an advantage in midfield, with Pluskal being a bit better than Enigma's DM and well suited to dealing with Kubala, Voronin being the best midfielder on the park, and Sekularac likely to get some joy up against Zakarias. That should give enough control and provide a consistent enough platform for the very talented attacking trio to do their thing.

My only tactical comment is around the combination of Belodedici and Khurtsilava. Both great players (and I'm a big fan of the libero Belo personally) but I'm not convinced they are the best combination. Both were very elegant and languid, but seemed to thrive when placed alongside a more physical or combative player.

 

[Enigma_87]

As Enigma said, the systems are fairly similar and it's more about how we see the head-to-head stuff panning out. I think we have an advantage in midfield, with Pluskal being a bit better than Enigma's DM and well suited to dealing with Kubala, Voronin being the best midfielder on the park, and Sekularac likely to get some joy up against Zakarias. That should give enough control and provide a consistent enough platform for the very talented attacking trio to do their thing.

My only tactical comment is around the combination of Belodedici and Khurtsilava. Both great players (and I'm a big fan of the libero Belo personally) but I'm not convinced they are the best combination. Both were very elegant and languid, but seemed to thrive when placed alongside a more physical player.

I think Kubala will have the edge on Pluskal. He's a good fit for him (same can be said for Zakarias vs Sekularac tbh), but Kubala is probably the best player on the pitch. Of course arguable, but I really rate him that high. Voronin vs Modric is a good battle, as I've said in the previous game vs Bozsik - both quality midfielders and some of the very best, but I still prefer Modric, knowing his game and his overall effect to Spurs and Real's team.

Khurtsilava is an excellent marker I think him alongside a sweeper is the best possible fit for him. Being a ball playing defender is only a plus to our side as he fits really well to the team style. Khurtsilava although possessing excellent ball skills is also very tough and robust defender - he was 180 and 80 kgs. I'd say he's as strong as you can get at that position.

My only slight concerns for your team is Stoichkov on the right - he loved the left wing and at his best he's there or centrally as a second striker or even lone forward. I don't think he ever played on the right that often. Loved the inside left or left channel. Seeing him on the right is a bit off for me.

The other one is possibly having Voronin up against Kubala directly. IMO he'd be a better fit there in the holding role given the game aesthetics.

With that being said I can see the reason why you put him in the center of midfield given that Sekularac is probably not going to provide any cover to the midfield at all.

 

[Raees]

As Enigma said, the systems are fairly similar and it's more about how we see the head-to-head stuff panning out. I think we have an advantage in midfield, with Pluskal being a bit better than Enigma's DM and well suited to dealing with Kubala, Voronin being the best midfielder on the park, and Sekularac likely to get some joy up against Zakarias. That should give enough control and provide a consistent enough platform for the very talented attacking trio to do their thing.

My only tactical comment is around the combination of Belodedici and Khurtsilava. Both great players (and I'm a big fan of the libero Belo personally) but I'm not convinced they are the best combination. Both were very elegant and languid, but seemed to thrive when placed alongside a more physical or combative player.

I thought Khurtsilava was more Gentile than Scirea?

 

[Raees]

I think Kubala will have the edge on Pluskal. He's a good fit for him (same can be said for Zakarias vs Sekularac tbh), but Kubala is probably the best player on the pitch. Of course arguable, but I really rate him that high. Voronin vs Modric is a good battle, as I've said in the previous game vs Bozsik - both quality midfielders and some of the very best, but I still prefer Modric, knowing his game and his overall effect to Spurs and Real's team.

The other one is possibly having Voronin up against Kubala directly. IMO he'd be a better fit there in the holding role given the game aesthetics.

Was doing some research on Albert/Shesterynov but Voronin played in a very similar role like Gio has deployed him here and he was really good.. great ball winner but so comfortable going forward that at times it would seem a waste using him as a DM.

Obviously not in the same league as a Modric on the ball, but definitely good enough to be a CM with a CDM behind him.

 

[Enigma_87]

Was doing some research on Albert/Shesterynov but Voronin played in a very similar role like Gio has deployed him here and he was really good.. great ball winner but so comfortable going forward that at times it would seem a waste using him as a DM.

Obviously not in the same league as a Modric on the ball, but definitely good enough to be a CM with a CDM behind him.

Yeah on that it's not like Gio's playing him out of position. Just that he's the better midfielder compared to Pluskal and probably best to deal with Kubala. Not that he can't play there or something.

The biggest off for me is Stoichkov on the right - that's unnatural. Neither for Barca nor Bulgarian national team he played there. He loved the left channel.

 

[Moby]

I thought Khurtsilava was more Gentile than Scirea?

I had a similar impression and was strongly considering as a stopper for my defense but then I read further and that's not quite the case. He was a bit of a bulky guy, often dubbed fat and wasn't exactly an aggressive stopper or man marker from what I read, certainly not similar to Gentile. His strengths seem to be his reading of the play, intelligence and ball playing ability which points being more tilted towards a ball playing defender than a stopper.

 

[harms]

Khurtsilava although possessing excellent ball skills is also very tough and robust defender - he was 180 and 80 kgs. I'd say he's as strong as you can get at that position.

You know that those aren't all muscles, right?

(it's obviously a post-retirement pick and take my comment with a pitch of salt but he never was physically imposing)

The only good thing is that Gio's front three won't be battling with your defenders like Vieri or Drogba would've, so you may be better off, actually - in this particular game

 

[Raees]

I had a similar impression and was strongly considering as a stopper for my defense but then I read further and that's not quite the case. He was a bit of a bulky guy, often dubbed fat and wasn't exactly an aggressive stopper or man marker from what I read, certainly not similar to Gentile. His strengths seem to be his reading of the play, intelligence and ball playing ability which points being more tilted towards a ball playing defender than a stopper.

Interesting and what about Jan Populhar.. where does he sit on that scale of Sweeper/Stopper.

 

[Enigma_87]

I had a similar impression and was strongly considering as a stopper for my defense but then I read further and that's not quite the case. He was a bit of a bulky guy, often dubbed fat and wasn't exactly an aggressive stopper or man marker from what I read, certainly not similar to Gentile. His strengths seem to be his reading of the play, intelligence and ball playing ability which points being more tilted towards a ball playing defender than a stopper.

I'd probably compare him to Nesta or Bratseth. He could play easily in both positions.

 

[harms]

I thought Khurtsilava was more Gentile than Scirea?

Somewhere in between. He was an astute man-marker - something that Scirea never was (because he was too good for it), but he was all about intelligence and reading of the game, compensating for the lack of physical qualities. Also a great footballer - and he hit the bar in the final against West Germany iirc, from an open play.

In terms of man-marking you can compare him to Bergomi, I guess

 

[Enigma_87]

You know that those aren't all muscles, right?

(it's obviously a post-retirement pick and take my comment with a pitch of salt but he never was physically imposing)

The only good thing is that Gio's front three won't be battling with your defenders like Vieri or Drogba would've, so you may be better off, actually - in this particular game

He's no Desailly of course but not a flaky guy either (or Mascherano). I was referring to Gio's comment in terms of stature.

 

[Gio]

My only slight concerns for your team is Stoichkov on the right - he loved the left wing and at his best he's there or centrally as a second striker or even lone forward. I don't think he ever played on the right that often. Loved the inside left or left channel. Seeing him on the right is a bit off for me.

His credentials on the right are fantastic IMO - although I'd be happy to hear what other folk think?

Spoiler: Stoichkov cutting in from the right

 

[Enigma_87]

His credentials on the right are fantastic IMO - although I'd be happy to hear what other folk think?

Spoiler: Stoichkov cutting in from the right

He's quality player no doubt but he's not a right winger/right wide forward. It's a bit like putting Figo on the left. Obviously a player you need to watch and take into account but that's not his best position.

Not in CSKA either when he won the golden boot. Not questioning the quality(won't hear it from me) just the position and role on the pitch.

Absolutely no relevant fact but I've trained under the same youth coach as him when I was a kid.

 

[harms]

Khurtsilava himself says that he can, but doesn't like to, play as a libero and feel best when he's given a man-marking job. He loved joining the attack though and scored quite a few

Actually he also talks about Lubanski - he remembers him as one of the best players he played against, possessing a good speed, technique, heading ability, passing and a cunning shot (Из зарубежных мастеров больше других запомнился мне поляк Любаньский. Он быстр, техничен, хорошо играет головой, у него отличный пас, коварный удар)

 

[Moby]

(Из зарубежных мастеров больше других запомнился мне поляк Любаньский. Он быстр, техничен, хорошо играет головой, у него отличный пас, коварный удар)

Well when you put it like that.

 

[harms]

he was 180 and 80 kgs

By the way, he was 176, although he had a great leap and never had any particular issues with the headers

 

[Skizzo]

Well when you put it like that.

It's a valid point though

 

[Enigma_87]

By the way, he was 176, although he had a great leap and never had any particular issues with the headers

I got the info from couple of sites, but I trust you on that more

 

[Gio]

He's quality player no doubt but he's not a right winger/right wide forward. It's a bit like putting Figo on the left. Obviously a player you need to watch and take into account but that's not his best position.

Not in CSKA either when he won the golden boot. Not questioning the quality(won't hear it from me) just the position and role on the pitch.

Absolutely no relevant fact but I've trained under the same youth coach as him when I was a kid.

Interesting take on his position, it's not something I'd agree with at all. I don't think Theon and I ever had any doubts about Stoichkov's fit into our attack - it looks seamless to me. He's the quintessential wide forward - superb on both sides - and absolutely fantastic at cutting onto his left peg from the right-hand side.

1994 Champions League Final:

Previous Draft Uses:

 

[Enigma_87]

Interesting take on his position, it's not something I'd agree with at all. I don't think Theon and I ever had any doubts about Stoichkov's fit into our attack - it looks seamless to me. He's the quintessential wide forward - superb on both sides - and absolutely fantastic at cutting onto his left peg from the right-hand side.

1994 Champions League Final:

Previous Draft Uses:

I disagree on using him as a right attacker. He was never prominent there or playing there on regular basis. As Ive said you can put Figo on the left and he can do fine, but that's not his favorite position.

Here's some quotes @harms style in Bulgarian:

През 2004 г. ФИФА обяви класация на 100-те най-великите играчи в историята и единствения българин в нея бе именно пловдивчанинът. Легендарното ляво крило на ЦСКА и Барселона е триумфирал с една дузина купи над главата си, като в момента Ицо се заел да постигне същото и като треньор на шампиона на България Литекс.

Rough translation. In 2004 FIFA published a ranking of the top 100 players in history and the only Bulgarian player there was Stoichkov. The legendary left winger of CSKA and Barcelona has won dozen cups and titles, and at the moment he's currently doing the same as a manager for the Bulgarian champion Litex Lovech.

През 1988, отборът завършва на второ място в шампионата, но спечелва купата на България. Със значително "изострени" умения, Стоичков е изместен като ляво крило нанасяйки и създавайки значителен брой попадения.

In 1988 the team (CSKA) finishes second in the championship but wins the Bulgarian cup. With excellent "sharp" skills, Stoichkov is deployed as a left winger causing significant damage and creating a lot of goals.

В Каталуния той е легенда, която хората обичащи червено – синия отбор никога няма да забравят. В тандем с Ромарио правят убийствен дует в атаката, като Стоичков може да играе еднакво добре като ляво крило и като централен нападател.

In Catalania he's a legend for all those who love the blue and red team and will never forget him. Forming a deadly tandem with Romario, Stoichkov can play equally well as a left winger and center forward.

 

[Enigma_87]

And additionally Koeman and his all time IX, he puts naturally Stoichkov on the left:

Ляво крило - Христо Стоичков: Малко играчи имат ляв крак като този на Стоичков. Беше идол на "Ноу Камп". Партньорствата му първо с Лаудруп, а след това и с Ромарио, бяха фундаментални за Барса.

Left winger - Hristo Stoichkov. Not many players have the left peg that Stoichkov has. He was an idol at Camp Now. His partnership, first with Laudrup, then with Romario, were fundamental for Barca.

The golden team in 1994:

Starting formation (4-3-3 or 3-4-3)

Stoichkov--L.Penev--Kostadinov

--------Balakov--Letchkov-------

-------------Yankov--------------

----Kiriakov Hubchev Tzvetanov-

--------------Ivanov--------------

-------------Mihailov-------------
Coach: Dimitar Penev
Subs: Zdravkov, Kishishev, Borimirov, M.Hristov, Genchev, Sirakov

Players
The undisputed leader of the team was Stoichkov, an established player with FC Barcelona. Playing as a left winger, Stoichkov scored regularly in important games. In attack he was helped by his former CSKA teammates Penev and Kostadinov.

In the midfield, Krasimir Balakov was instrumental in distributing the ball. Balakov covered a lot of ground and most attacking passes were directed by him. Letchkov showed impressive flair and skills and emerged as the team’s top technician.

Trifon Ivanov was the prominent defender on the team. The stubby Kiriakov and Tzvetanov played along his side, while stopper Hubchev roamed in front of the back three.

Captain Mihailov was a reliable figure at the goal for Bulgaria. He made few mistakes on the job and managed to hold his position for over 100 international caps.

Known as a laid back character, Bulgaria’s coach Dimitar Penev had good instincts when it came to team chemistry. Penev was a former international for Bulgaria. Before taking over as the head coach for Bulgaria, he had achieved success with CSKA Sofia.

source: http://expertfootball.com/wp/?p=841

 

[Raees]

Whilst it isn't his preferred position, the question is can he play there and can he be effective in general and thirdly will he be effective in this particular match.

For me, he has it ib him to be effective from that position.. it isn't like playing Messi down the left or Neymar down the right.

 

[Enigma_87]

Whilst it isn't his preferred position, the question is can he play there and can he be effective in general and thirdly will he be effective in this particular match.

For me, he has it ib him to be effective from that position.. it isn't like playing Messi down the left or Neymar down the right.

It kinda is. You can see Messi and Neymar drifting to left and right, but that is never their natural position. One thing that needs to be mentioned - Stoichkov was an excellent crosser in the beginning of his career at CSKA. He create a lot of goals via crosses during that time from outside left position. Put him on the right and that aspect of his game is gone.

 

[Moby]

It's not ideal but still would work definitely.

 

[Enigma_87]

It's not ideal but still would work definitely.

I think both teams are really well set up and nothing major to put as a weaknesses, but that one just irks me. Ask any Bulgarian and you'll never see Stoichkov on the right. It feels unnatural.

He's also Gio/Theon best man so it makes sense to get him the central stage he deserves. In this formation he's more of an auxiliary player or a system player, which I don't really like.

Nitpicking and all that of course.

There I think it makes our job easier to contain him, as with a deeper defensive line which would always be in line without too adventurous full backs, there will be less space for him to run into.

 

[Gio]

It's quite an odd point I have to say. Especially when there's absolutely loads of evidence of Stoichkov playing on the right of a front three, both regularly for the Dream Team and in the big games. During 1993/94 - the season he won the Ballon D'Or - he played on the right of Cruyff's Dream Team Attack:

Barcelona 5-0 Real Madrid, 1993/94 La Liga


Barcelona v Deportivo La Coruna, 1993/94 La Liga


Barcelona 5-3 Atletico Madrid, 1993/94 La Liga


Atletico Madrid 4-3 Barcelona, 1993/94 La Liga


Barcelona 5-2 Sevilla, 1993/94 La Liga (last game of the season title decider)


The 1994 Champions League Final

Spoiler

 

[Ecstatic]

The 2 teams deserve to win given their involvement.

Will try to participate in the discussions but very unlikely tbh busy until tomorrow night.

 

[Enigma_87]

@Gio It's similar to in your last game putting Belanov on the right(the same position). He could do a job there and could play there, but by far that's not his optimal position. At his very top and in his best games he played as a left winger/SS, even CF. Sure there was occasional game where he started on the right, but that doesn't make it as there will be no difference where you'll play him. Yes he can adapt and fill that position, but IMO given that he's your star man it's kinda unnatural to give him an auxiliary role in this game.

Also @Theon feel free to participate in the discussion if you want.

 

[Gio]

Ask any Bulgarian and you'll never see Stoichkov on the right.

And if you ask Johan Cruyff, he'll stick Stoichkov on the right.

 

[Raees]

It kinda is. You can see Messi and Neymar drifting to left and right, but that is never their natural position. One thing that needs to be mentioned - Stoichkov was an excellent crosser in the beginning of his career at CSKA. He create a lot of goals via crosses during that time from outside left position. Put him on the right and that aspect of his game is gone.

Imagine Messi playing from a Giggs position, his dribbling and pretty much his entire game would be curtailed plus there is no footage of him being used here.. likewise Neymar, I can't recall him ever starting on the right.

Stoichkov is more a Cristiano Ronaldo situation, at his peak down the left, but would still be a fearsome proposition from the right and has the proven credentials/evidence in doing so.

 

[Gio]

Imagine Messi playing from a Giggs position, his dribbling and pretty much his entire game would be curtailed plus there is no footage of him being used here.. likewise Neymar, I can't recall him ever starting on the right.

Stoichkov is more a Cristiano Ronaldo situation, at his peak down the left, but would still be a fearsome proposition from the right and has the proven credentials/evidence in doing so.

Well yes. But it's very debeatable what side his peak was - after all he played the 1993/94 season on the right hand side of Cruyff's 3-man attack. And won a Ballon D'Or on the back of it. It doesn't get more compelling than that.

 

[Enigma_87]

And if you ask Johan Cruyff, he'll stick Stoichkov on the right.

Cruyff himself played him on the left. It's not like he was right winger at Barca. If you imply that I disagree entirely. He played on the right in some games, but the majority was a left winger/attacker.

Imagine Messi playing from a Giggs position, his dribbling and pretty much his entire game would be curtailed plus there is no footage of him being used here.. likewise Neymar, I can't recall him ever starting on the right.

Stoichkov is more a Cristiano Ronaldo situation, at his peak down the left, but would still be a fearsome proposition from the right and has the proven credentials/evidence in doing so.

Yeah probably I'd agree with the Cristiano Ronaldo example.

Well yes. But it's very debeatable what side his peak was - after all he played the 1993/94 season on the right hand side of Cruyff's 3-man attack. And won a Ballon D'Or on the back of it. It doesn't get more compelling than that.

Absolutely not even close - he won the Ballon D'or based on his WC in 94. There he was the top scorer and propelled the Bugarian national team to 4th position where he was the star man and played exclusively on the left. Kostadinov was the right winger and both played as such throughout the qualification phase and the finals.

 

[harms]

Stoichkov is the star man? Blokhin was better

Although I expect them to interchange positions quite often.

Plus there were always an interesting option of starting Blokhin and Stoichkov as a front two