Belgium National Team Discussion

Botim

Full Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Messages
750
Supports
Royal Antwerp FC
Can't seem to find a thread for the nailed on winners yet...

Here's the official selection. Some last chance salooners in there, so we might surprise a few people. Then again, we are also very capable of going out in the group stage.

Goalkeepers​

  • Thibaut Courtois
  • Senne Lammens
  • Mike Penders

Defenders​

  • Timothy Castagne
  • Zeno Debast
  • Maxim De Cuyper
  • Koni De Winter
  • Brandon Mechele
  • Thomas Meunier
  • Nathan Ngoy
  • Joaquin Seys
  • Arthur Theate

Midfielders​

  • Kevin De Bruyne
  • Amadou Onana
  • Nicolas Raskin
  • Youri Tielemans
  • Hans Vanaken
  • Axel Witsel

Attackers​

  • Charles De Ketelaere
  • Jeremy Doku
  • Matias Fernandez Pardo
  • Romelu Lukaku
  • Dodi Lukebakio
  • Diego Moreira
  • Alexis Saelemaekers
  • Leandro Trossard
Predicted starting line-up:

Courtois
Meunier - De Bast -Teate - De Cuyper
Trossard - Onana - Tielemans (C) - De Bruyne - Doku
De Ketelaere (?)
 
Last edited:
The last friendly (2-0 over Croatia) did offer some positives. Solid, unspectacular win against a good team and a goal by Lukaku, who is very slowly getting back upto speed. Him being an impact sub rather than a starter could actually be a good thing for us.

The 5 man defensive line-up was a bit weird though, hope we don't play lesser teams in this set-up.
 
Botim said:
The last friendly (2-0 over Croatia) did offer some positives. Solid, unspectacular win against a good team and a goal by Lukaku, who is very slowly getting back upto speed. Him being an impact sub rather than a starter could actually be a good thing for us.

The 5 man defensive line-up was a bit weird though, hope we don't play lesser teams in this set-up.
Click to expand...
Were you happy with onana deployed as a cb?
 
El-Manos said:
Were you happy with onana deployed as a cb?
Click to expand...

Well, it worked okay, but I'd rather see an actual defender there of course (like Mechele). In general, this was supposedly a test to see if we can switch to a 5 man defence when necessary, but in the group stages I hope we don't see this system, but rather something like the line-up in the opening post.
 
Got a feeling they do okay. Everyone has moved on from them as a potential force, but that’s a very useful line up. Could be wrong obviously.
 
It's sad that Martinez and Wilmots underpreformed with our "golden" generation.
This one will squeeze by the group stages but we'll get knocked out rather fast.

We are an OK team but are lacking in several area's.
Rudi Garcia went all in on instant-results and he is less interested in building the team up to be future-proof.
Time will tell if it was a good choice...
 
Offside said:
Got a feeling they do okay. Everyone has moved on from them as a potential force, but that’s a very useful line up. Could be wrong obviously.
Click to expand...
Its' a decent squad, but it's very unpredictable how far we'll get. We should easily get through the group stages; quarter final would be a success imo. A lot of teams would be jealous of a De Bruyne - Onana - Tielemans midfield, Doku performs for Belgium, we have Trossard, Courtois...

El-Manos said:
Were you happy with onana deployed as a cb?
Click to expand...
It was a very good test. We have the players to play a 3-5-2 against a better team; if Onana is the one to play that center of 3 CB's spot, no idea. I think he did well though. He's tall, a good header, fast, has a good tackle in him.
 
Botim said:
Well, it worked okay, but I'd rather see an actual defender there of course (like Mechele). In general, this was supposedly a test to see if we can switch to a 5 man defence when necessary, but in the group stages I hope we don't see this system, but rather something like the line-up in the opening post.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Vanaken looks too good to be on the bench as well.
 
Offside said:
Martinez still managed a best ever World Cup finish, no?
Click to expand...
Yeah, but that's hardly an achievement with that team. All on top of their game: De Bruyne, Hazard, Courtois, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Kompany, Fellaini, Lukaku, Witsel, Carrasco, Mertens etc etc.
Mind, I'm happy we got third, we are still an incredibly small country with limited resources. The atmosphere in our country during that World Cup was electric; I'm a bit sad we'll probably never see that happening again.
 
onemanarmy said:
Yeah, but that's hardly an achievement with that team. All on top of their game: De Bruyne, Hazard, Courtois, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Kompany, Fellaini, Lukaku, Witsel, Carrasco, Mertens etc etc.
Mind, I'm happy we got third, we are still an incredibly small country with limited resources. The atmosphere in our country during that World Cup was electric; I'm a bit sad we'll probably never see that happening again.
Click to expand...
I still think finishing 3rd and knocking out Brazil is an achievement for any team, particularly for a (small as you say) country that has never finished that high before. That was a great squad all on top of their game yes, but France still had a better squad in my opinion.
 
Offside said:
I still think finishing 3rd and knocking out Brazil is an achievement for any team, particularly for a (small as you say) country that has never finished that high before. That was a great squad all on top of their game yes, but France still had a better squad in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Better squad might be true but we were the better team in that semifinal - I think that’s why the 3th place finish hurts so much, it should’ve been a final. We had also eliminated both Croatia and England if we had that path to the final imo, but you don’t buy anything with ifs buts and maybes.

Best summer of my life probably that one. Would kill for a similar WC vibe but don’t see it happening. Our backline is prone to errors and our usual top performers are over the hill.
 
I still see 3 main decisions yet to be made by Garcia:

The striker position. Despite his goal, Romelu looked pretty far from 100% to me. CDK will probably start, even if he's not a striker and has been a bit underwhelming in my opinion. Not entirely his fault. Will Fernandez-Pardo get minutes in that position? Or could he even start? Or is Garcia counting on Lukaku to be fitter and already start matches in the group stage?

The midfield trio. The obvious choice is Onana, Tielemans and KDB. Sadly Onana-Tielemans hasn't really worked all that well on several occasions, like when they got overrun against Wales at home in the second half. Plus Garcia is a big fan of Raskin. And Vanaken is also clearly making a case for himself with his recent performances. That's 5 players for 3 spots.

The Trossard situation. He'll expect to start as he has been complaining a bit about his role in the national team the last couple of years. But Doku is on the left. Which means one has to go to the right. Tedesco actually put Trossard left and Doku right in the first game at the Euro's against Slovakia and we all remember how that went. I really hope Doku isn't put on the right again, because he's the main threat and much better coming from the left.

The rest of the team seems mostly straightforward.
 
Offside said:
Martinez still managed a best ever World Cup finish, no?
Click to expand...

Could have actually won the WC that year.
His tactics were wrong - players misused.
The squad had a really good team with most of the starting eleven in extremely good form...

Normally, a country like Belgium doesn't have a shot at winning the WC, that year the stars were alligning...
 
Belgium's fixture is very favorable. A group they should lead comfortably against an unremarkable Egypt, an Iran both handicapped by the host and probably with their minds somewhere else, and a New Zealand team that looks out of their depth even with the new format.

2nd round would be against one of the 8 best third places. 3rd round probably against the leader of the US/Paraguay/Turkey/Australia group. Solid teams, but nothing really special about them. Only in the QF there's the chance they face a really strong team. Personally I would like to see a Yamal vs. Doku battle on the wings.
 
Ramos said:
I still see 3 main decisions yet to be made by Garcia:

The striker position. Despite his goal, Romelu looked pretty far from 100% to me. CDK will probably start, even if he's not a striker and has been a bit underwhelming in my opinion. Not entirely his fault. Will Fernandez-Pardo get minutes in that position? Or could he even start? Or is Garcia counting on Lukaku to be fitter and already start matches in the group stage?

The midfield trio. The obvious choice is Onana, Tielemans and KDB. Sadly Onana-Tielemans hasn't really worked all that well on several occasions, like when they got overrun against Wales at home in the second half. Plus Garcia is a big fan of Raskin. And Vanaken is also clearly making a case for himself with his recent performances. That's 5 players for 3 spots.

The Trossard situation. He'll expect to start as he has been complaining a bit about his role in the national team the last couple of years. But Doku is on the left. Which means one has to go to the right. Tedesco actually put Trossard left and Doku right in the first game at the Euro's against Slovakia and we all remember how that went. I really hope Doku isn't put on the right again, because he's the main threat and much better coming from the left.

The rest of the team seems mostly straightforward.
Click to expand...
Vanaken should start imo, we are just a better team with him playing (and I’m in no way a Bruges fan). He’s overlooked given he only plays in the JPL but has earned every right to start - especially in the group phase up until the QFs should we get that far, he dictates the tempo of the game and always makes the right choice.

I also agree with Filip Joos in 90minutes that our attack should just be organized positionless chaos centered around Doku and Trossard, they’ve had good seasons and are our best bets to get far into the tournament. I don’t even particularly care who’s the third attacker, whether it’s CDK, Lukaku, Fernandez-Pardo or someone else.
 
5-0 versus Tunisia in our last friendly.

Tunisia was surprisingly poor, but still a good omen.

This game confirmed Lukaku is not ready, so I would like to see Lukebakio start (although it will probably be De Ketelaere).

Ngoy also mad a good case for a starting position.
 
I dont rate their defenders and some midfielders are past their peak. The attack and Gks do look good though. Think Quarter finals are the expectation
 
RobinLFC said:
Vanaken should start imo, we are just a better team with him playing (and I’m in no way a Bruges fan). He’s overlooked given he only plays in the JPL but has earned every right to start - especially in the group phase up until the QFs should we get that far, he dictates the tempo of the game and always makes the right choice.

I also agree with Filip Joos in 90minutes that our attack should just be organized positionless chaos centered around Doku and Trossard, they’ve had good seasons and are our best bets to get far into the tournament. I don’t even particularly care who’s the third attacker, whether it’s CDK, Lukaku, Fernandez-Pardo or someone else.
Click to expand...

KDB false 9? He can float about just trying to create instead of asking him to mark DMs and help out as much defensively, and you get Vanaken into the midfield 3 to add some composure in possession.
 
NoPace said:
KDB false 9? He can float about just trying to create instead of asking him to mark DMs and help out as much defensively, and you get Vanaken into the midfield 3 to add some composure in possession.
Click to expand...
Looks like our midfield trio is set in stone with KDB, Tielemans and Onana; can understand it but still think Vanaken offers something that no one else does at the moment.

Charles De Ketelaere up top doesn't particularly inspire me, but it's obvious that our attacking gameplan primarily needs to go through Doku and Trossard anyway.

I couldn't watch the game vs Tunesia on Saturday but apparently Ngoy was very solid at CB again, can't say I've ever watched him play but would be a pleasant surprise if our defense isn't by far our weakest area.

Have to say that the 5-0 at home and a very solid 0-2 at #11 ranked Croatia have increased the anticipation for our campagin for me personally (and a lot of media and journalists as well it seems). We realize that we don't have the amount of talent anymore that the Hazard generation had but we have very solid players all across the field and a world class GK (no matter what a prick he is), so just hoping we can show what we're made of and actually go for it.
 
RobinLFC said:
Have to say that the 5-0 at home and a very solid 0-2 at #11 ranked Croatia have increased the anticipation for our campagin for me personally (and a lot of media and journalists as well it seems). We realize that we don't have the amount of talent anymore that the Hazard generation had but we have very solid players all across the field and a world class GK (no matter what a prick he is), so just hoping we can show what we're made of and actually go for it.
Click to expand...

On top of that, it feels like there's actually some fighting spirit and optimism in the group.
De Bruyne feels fit and knows it's (probably) his last WC, Lukaku's just happy to be there in the first place, Tielemans is a low ego captain and the new generation is eager to prove they are better than the narrative of the last few years ("end of a golden generation", etc)
 
RobinLFC said:
Looks like our midfield trio is set in stone with KDB, Tielemans and Onana; can understand it but still think Vanaken offers something that no one else does at the moment.

Charles De Ketelaere up top doesn't particularly inspire me, but it's obvious that our attacking gameplan primarily needs to go through Doku and Trossard anyway.

I couldn't watch the game vs Tunesia on Saturday but apparently Ngoy was very solid at CB again, can't say I've ever watched him play but would be a pleasant surprise if our defense isn't by far our weakest area.

Have to say that the 5-0 at home and a very solid 0-2 at #11 ranked Croatia have increased the anticipation for our campagin for me personally (and a lot of media and journalists as well it seems). We realize that we don't have the amount of talent anymore that the Hazard generation had but we have very solid players all across the field and a world class GK (no matter what a prick he is), so just hoping we can show what we're made of and actually go for it.
Click to expand...
Regarding midfield, Raskin has played a ton of games under Garcia it seems. I quite like him as an option too.
Ngoy has been surprisingly good yeah, happy with that.

Botim said:
On top of that, it feels like there's actually some fighting spirit and optimism in the group.
De Bruyne feels fit and knows it's (probably) his last WC, Lukaku's just happy to be there in the first place, Tielemans is a low ego captain and the new generation is eager to prove they are better than the narrative of the last few years ("end of a golden generation", etc)
Click to expand...

It does feel the lack of talent (as opposed to the "golden generation") is compensated with work rate and fight. Like it.
 
Loved how Martinez destroyed their golden generation and got rewarded by getting the chance to do the same to Portugal's golden generation.

As Bill Goldberg used to say... Who's next?
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Loved how Martinez destroyed their golden generation and got rewarded by getting the chance to do the same to Portugal's golden generation.

As Bill Goldberg used to say... Who's next?
Click to expand...
Wilmots can share credits for that, perhaps not so much in 2014 given that it was our first time back at a major tournament but especially 2016 was a feck up of major proportion.

Martinez did quite alright imo despite being a limited manager. Got us our best ever result at a WC, our greatest ever victory in our history imo against Brazil, and actually had us as the better team against France in the semis. We were just a bit unlucky in that game.

Euro 2021 was a letdown as well but we still beat Portugal and went out to the eventual champions - in a disappointing fashion, true enough, but all in all I think Wilmots did worse in 2016 alone than Martinez throughout.

I was actually thinking now who our manager was in Qatar but it was still bloody Martinez :lol: Maybe scratch the above after all then...
 
Their squad looks the weakest it has seemed in years but the results have been really good over the last couple of years - one of the strongest set of results of any nation in this World Cup.

The weak spots seem to me to be centre back (Debast is decent though), striker and Meunier surely is past his best at RB. There's a lack of depth in certain areas too, but I generally quite like the starting 11. Maybe it's time for people like Ngoy and Fernandez-Pardo to break out in those weak spots. The midfield is great. Onana and Tielemans provide a really solid base and I can definitely see KDB having one last flourish on the world stage. The expectation will be down so I think Belgium can surprise people, though I'd be surprised if they make it to the semis.
 
RobinLFC said:
Wilmots can share credits for that, perhaps not so much in 2014 given that it was our first time back at a major tournament but especially 2016 was a feck up of major proportion.

Martinez did quite alright imo despite being a limited manager. Got us our best ever result at a WC, our greatest ever victory in our history imo against Brazil, and actually had us as the better team against France in the semis. We were just a bit unlucky in that game.

Euro 2021 was a letdown as well but we still beat Portugal and went out to the eventual champions - in a disappointing fashion, true enough, but all in all I think Wilmots did worse in 2016 alone than Martinez throughout.

I was actually thinking now who our manager was in Qatar but it was still bloody Martinez :lol: Maybe scratch the above after all then...
Click to expand...
Loved reading that and seeing you slowly realise who was in charge at Qatar :lol:
 
There's only 4 players left from WC 2014, 5 from Euro 2016 and 6 from WC 2018. I think it's safe to say this isn't the golden generation anymore.

People shouldn't compare these guys to them. There's about 8 or 9 teams in the tournament that are clearly better.
 
Their squad is nowhere like it once was, but I still think it's pretty solid.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Loved how Martinez destroyed their golden generation and got rewarded by getting the chance to do the same to Portugal's golden generation.

As Bill Goldberg used to say... Who's next?
Click to expand...
"Destroyed" them by finishing 3rd (their best ever finish) which included knocking out Brazil and scoring for fun in the group stages. Winning the World Cup is extremely hard, and simply failing to do so with a country that has never come close to winning anything before or since is not "destroying" them is it? No matte how talented the generation of players - especially considering how awful Wilmots had them playing.
 
The way Garcia spoke about it in interviews, it seems Castagne could take the left back position for the opening game at the cost of the De Cuyper. Especially considering Salah will be the opponent. Wouldn't be surprised about it. De Cuyper is also a bit out of form lately.
 
This is a great chance to have at least a great WC. There are kids like Doku that can mature a lot, nobody is expecting De Bruyne to shine and he looks sharp and really fit. There is not even near the same pressure of prior WCs and the team has a great mix of youngsters with extremely Top experienced players.
 
Last edited:
I'm pretty happy with where we are. There was always this fear that we could sink to our pre-2014 depths after the "golden" generation, and while we're clearly not as strong anymore, it's nowhere near as bad as I feared. I don't expect us to knock out a big nation but we should still give anyone a good game with this team. I'm just going to try to enjoy it for however long it lasts.
 
Yeah, it really is unfair on Martinez to claim he destroyed them. The first poor tournament they had, one in Qatar, he left right after.

In 2018 and 2021 they weren't bad. In 2018 it wasn't his fault that they couldn't beat France, France was simply more complete team.

He was knocked out twice in quarterfinals or later by eventual champions.
 
Agreed. And he really did win a lot. He won 6/7 WC games in 2018, 10/10 qualifiers for Euro 2020, 3/3 Group stage games at Euro 2020 and the R16 against Portugal. That's also why Belgium was ranked so high.

Just a pity he couldn't really come up with something in the games that mattered most like against France and Italy. Against France he replaced the suspended right wingback Meunier with Moussa Dembele, which didn't work at all. Even against Japan his initial gameplan was wrong and he had to bring Fellaini on to save the game.

The only tactical decision he impressed with, was putting Lukaku against Marcelo in the QF vs. Brazil.
 
Offside said:
"Destroyed" them by finishing 3rd (their best ever finish) which included knocking out Brazil and scoring for fun in the group stages. Winning the World Cup is extremely hard, and simply failing to do so with a country that has never come close to winning anything before or since is not "destroying" them is it? No matte how talented the generation of players - especially considering how awful Wilmots had them playing.
Click to expand...

Just being pedantic, because I agree with your main point, but Belgium did get to the Euro 1980 final and World Cup '86 semi-final, so unless you're really strict with the definition of "close" they did have some great tournament runs pre-Martinez.
 
Ainu said:
I'm pretty happy with where we are. There was always this fear that we could sink to our pre-2014 depths after the "golden" generation, and while we're clearly not as strong anymore, it's nowhere near as bad as I feared. I don't expect us to knock out a big nation but we should still give anyone a good game with this team. I'm just going to try to enjoy it for however long it lasts.
Click to expand...

I think Belgium's usually been a solid, tough to beat team (at least if we go from 60/s/70s), it was just that a few of those teams immediately before the golden generation sides were among the worst, so it probably made the gap seem more extreme that it was likely to be, especially for fans that grew up on the '00s teams.
 
Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
I think Belgium's usually been a solid, tough to beat team (at least if we go from 60/s/70s), it was just that a few of those teams immediately before the golden generation sides were among the worst, so it probably made the gap seem more extreme that it was likely to be, especially for fans that grew up on the '00s teams.
Click to expand...
I don't know about a few. We failed to qualify for a single European Championship from 1984 until 2016, with our only appearance being the 2000 Euros because we co-hosted, and we embarrassed ourselves there. We did at least qualify for World Cups throughout the 90s, but our win against the USA in 2014 was our first knockout victory since 1986.

Point being, we'd have to go a looooong way back to call Belgium tough to beat before our so-called golden generation.
 
Ainu said:
I don't know about a few. We failed to qualify for a single European Championship from 1984 until 2016, with our only appearance being the 2000 Euros because we co-hosted, and we embarrassed ourselves there. We did at least qualify for World Cups throughout the 90s, but our win against the USA in 2014 was our first knockout victory since 1986.

Point being, we'd have to go a looooong way back to call Belgium tough to beat before our so-called golden generation.
Click to expand...

The old 8 and even 16 team Euro's were very hard to qualify for. quite a number of the second-tier European sides that were in the tough to beat/capable of giving almost any side a difficult game when on form category (especially at home), and that usually had some top players would often just miss out. I'd definitely put 80s and 90s Belgium in that category most of the time. Around the end of the '90s they had seemed to drop a level into a more genuinely mediocre/average state with the likes of Scifo and Nilis fading, but even then the 2002 team that also didn't necessarily have a lot of great talent bounced back and put out a talented and very effective Czech generation in the WC playoffs, a more talented (if dysfunctional) Russian squad in the groups and gave Brazil a tough game. They were able to be organised and difficult. After that, yeah, more disappointing and properly inconsistent until the 2010's side got going.
 
Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
Just being pedantic, because I agree with your main point, but Belgium did get to the Euro 1980 final and World Cup '86 semi-final, so unless you're really strict with the definition of "close" they did have some great tournament runs pre-Martinez.
Click to expand...
Yeah, although they finished 3rd in 2018 and 4th in 86.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.