Best academy in the world?

[Rozay]

At the moment (not in the history of football), is there a reasonable argument to say that we have the best academy? Our current first XI has about £400m worth of talent that all played for us from at least U18 level. The rest of the squad has another £100m+ worth at least. I can’t see any other team that fan boast similar numbers to that in their first team squad. Maybe Barcelona if you combined the value of the likes of Messi, Fati, Puig, Busquets etc.

Pogba, Rashford and Greenwood are all £100m+ players. In a year or so, we’ll likely have about £450m worth in the first
XI, providing we keep Pogba and Henderson comes in.

I appreciate other clubs have produced players and sold them on, but in terms of the makeup of any current squad list, I don’t think any touch ours for academy produced talent.

 

[Relfy]

Without even looking or debating the value of players, I think it is fair to suggest united have one of the best academies in world football. The rate at which our academy provides players for the first team as well as many others who go on to make a career in the game is unrivalled, in UK at least.

Barca and Ajax would probably have to be in the debate too.

 

[neilv93]

Without even looking or debating the value of players, I think it is fair to suggest united have one of the best academies in world football. The rate at which our academy provides players for the first team as well as many others who go on to make a career in the game is unrivalled, in UK at least.

Barca and Ajax would probably have to be in the debate too.

Benfica and Sporting too I think, though not to our level. We must be the best in England though (honourable mention for our opponents on Monday, Saints, who's academy is also great).

 

[roonster09]

I dont understand, I thought it was obvious that we are career killer, at least reading other thread I thought ManUtd is the death of talented footballers.

I mean after all we have a deadly trio in the attack, 2 out of 3 are from academy, who joined club when they were 6 or 8. Other player was signed when he was teenager.
In midfield we have Pogba who was also part of our U18 team.
Our LB was a teenager when he joined and GK was very young too.

 

[AltiUn]

I dont understand, I thought it was obvious that we are career killer, at least reading other thread I thought ManUtd is the death of talented footballers.

I mean after all we have a deadly trio in the attack, 2 out of 3 are from academy, who joined club when they were 6 or 8. Other player was signed when he was teenager.
In midfield we have Pogba who was also part of our U18 team.
Our LB was a teenager when he joined and GK was very young too.

I believe De Gea was also a teenager when we signed him, 19 if I'm not mistaken.

EDIT: He was 20 actually

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Currently yes the Best in England or let's make it bigger --> Britain.
Historically we're still maintaining to be one of the very best in the world.

In Europe though, still one of the best.
Difficult to say No.1 cause too many good competitions.. honestly I don't think we are at the moment.

I think to be the Best in the World Academy, your team need to be among the top teams, competing at the highest level, need equal respective high measure of many academy in all the categories ~ 11, squad and also supplying academy products to other teams.

1. Top - sort of still yes.
2. Level - well, we're quickly getting there, very close, need to qualify for CL first.
3. Starting Eleven - 3 (almost 4 with McTominator but his form is not that atm, so maybe not yet)
4. Squad overall - Just 6 (7 to be kind including Chong)
5. Supply - oh yes, definitely a lot of teams benefited from our academy. We're very good at this comparable with other teams.

Our Squad,

Starters/Best 11: Rashford, Pogba, Greenwood.​

Regulars: McT, Williams​

Squad: Pereira, Chong​

​

Good chances: Henderson​

​

Used to be Starter & Regular: Lingard​

Still around (but not really playing.. to be harsh, fringes): Tuanzebe, TFM, Garner, Joel, etc.​

​

​

If McT can improve more to displace Matic, Pereira seriously put more work in to impress more to be regular, Tuanzebe settled his fitness issue, Henderson contested De Gea to the door, (and Lingard back to his prime, doubt it'll happen) then we will have stronger contention to be the best. So far it's just potential.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Dortmund are better apparently

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I remember that there was a heap of negativity over the academy a short while back with cries along the lines of 'what top players have we really produced! in recent times' questioning the importance it's given.

Hope it's evident now, as it has been many many times before, that it's an important part of this football club, both culturally as well as practically.

 

[yumtum]

I remember that there was a heap of negativity over the academy a short while back with cries along the lines of 'what top players have we really produced! in recent times' questioning the importance it's given.

Hope it's evident now, as it has been many many times before, that it's an important part of this football club, both culturally as well as practically.

That was because City had their PR campaign in full swing by giving every kid a place at a private school even if they ended up being released (meaning every parent would send their kid there), journalists then thought it would be wise to shit on United while gargling on the manure City were peddling.

During that period we were restructuring too, we'll probably start seeing the fruits of that labour soon.

 

[Ace of Spades]

We have a great academy, and as a club the commitment and tradition of giving academy players a chance.

 

[Eire Red United]

Even look at the amount of players who haven’t made it here but go on to have solid careers at a decent level, likes of Robbie Brady, Welbeck, Cleverley, Foster etc.

 

[Rozay]

Currently yes the Best in England or let's make it bigger --> Britain.
Historically we're still maintaining to be one of the very best in the world.

In Europe though, still one of the best.
Difficult to say No.1 cause too many good competitions.. honestly I don't think we are at the moment.

I think to be the Best in the World Academy, your team need to be among the top teams, competing at the highest level, need equal respective high measure of many academy in all the categories ~ 11, squad and also supplying academy products to other teams.

1. Top - sort of still yes.
2. Level - well, we're quickly getting there, very close, need to qualify for CL first.
3. Starting Eleven - 3 (almost 4 with McTominator but his form is not that atm, so maybe not yet)
4. Squad overall - Just 6 (7 to be kind including Chong)
5. Supply - oh yes, definitely a lot of teams benefited from our academy. We're very good at this comparable with other teams.

Our Squad,

Starters/Best 11: Rashford, Pogba, Greenwood.​

Regulars: McT, Williams​

Squad: Pereira, Chong​

​

Good chances: Henderson​

​

Used to be Starter & Regular: Lingard​

Still around (but not really playing.. to be harsh, fringes): Tuanzebe, TFM, Garner, Joel, etc.​

​

​

If McT can improve more to displace Matic, Pereira seriously put more work in to impress more to be regular, Tuanzebe settled his fitness issue, Henderson contested De Gea to the door, (and Lingard back to his prime, doubt it'll happen) then we will have stronger contention to be the best. So far it's just potential.

I don’t see any other club doing better than what you have outlined above. And there are more on the way too. Beyond that, we had a whole bunch of PL winners in Leicester’s squad in 2016 too, and many more in the PL, although when you start looking at other clubs the likes of Ajax, Benfica and co have a better argument - as their graduates are littered throughout better clubs than ours.

And Pereira and Lingard have played over 30 games each this season, they are very much squad players.

 

[hasanejaz88]

For me the top 3 are Ajax, Barca and United. Can't judge who is the best amongst those because they've all had periods of superb graduates.

Then there are the rest, I don't think any other club comes close to the graduates these three clubs have produced over the years.

 

[JPRouve]

Clearly one of the best, I would say top 5 in the world but it's not a new thing, it's one of the constants, the club produces PL and Championship level players every single year.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

For me the top 3 are Ajax, Barca and United. Can't judge who is the best amongst those because they've all had periods of superb graduates.

Then there are the rest, I don't think any other club comes close to the graduates these three clubs have produced over the years.

This is a fair assessment. If I had to rank them it'd be a fairly contentious battle for top spot between United and Ajax due to their consistency in developing talented players with Barcelona in third.

 

[JPRouve]

This is a fair assessment. If I had to rank them it'd be a fairly contentious battle for top spot between United and Ajax due to their consistency in developing talented players with Barcelona in third.

If you base it on the amount of players playing in the top 5 leagues, it's Real Madrid, Barcelona, Lyon, United and Valencia. Ajax aren't in the top 10.

 

[Rozay]

Oddly enough, Dortmund don’t actually produce anything. Bayern, who are seen as the big, bad vultures have a far better academy.

 

[JPRouve]

Oddly enough, Dortmund don’t actually produce anything. Bayern, who are seen as the big, bad vultures have a far better academy.

And PSG has a better academy than Benfica or Ajax.

 

[Thiagoal]

We have always produced top talent in our academy and all of our most successful teams have had a good handful of world class academy players smattered in them.

I feel we have the basis of the same happening again. Pogba, McT (many will disagree), Rashford, Greenwood all have the ability to be top class.

Sides based around academy players have a will to win like no other and can make the difference in big games

 

[harms]

I think Real Madrid gained around 250m. in 4 years by selling academy graduates (Morata, Hakimi, Llotente etc.), which is pretty impressive. We seem to have a bunch of incredibly talented individuals coming through though. Hopefully Mejbri is the next one

 

[Gasolin]

No team in the world is able to put Rashford, Greenwood and Pogba in their best 11, just like that, straight from the academy. And then there's Scott, Williams... and a few more. I think we guarantee first team football for any teenager who is exceptionally talented. And we're good at that now, thanks to Ole.

Hopefully all the other players in the world, young and proven, see that, and respect Manchester United for that. Titles will come very soon anyway.

 

[hasanejaz88]

If you base it on the amount of players playing in the top 5 leagues, it's Real Madrid, Barcelona, Lyon, United and Valencia. Ajax aren't in the top 10.

It shouldn't be about only today though, there is history associated with Ajax graduates from the 70's and then 90's. That's why I mentioned you can't distinguish between the 3 because it fluctuates every decade. In the 90's, with the Ajax and United batches coming through, you would say one of the two, then in the 00's with not only Barca's batch also many others that left earlier (Fabregas, Reina) you could say Barca. Today, the argument can be made for United given the number of great youth products currently in the first XI.

The only thing against Barca though is that they are much more decent, with their academy really blossoming after Cruyff revitalized La Masia in the 80's, while United have a history of youth products from the 50's. Ofcourse there is my own ignorance about football in the past but I can't remember Barca having a similar batch of players coming through before the 80's.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

If you base it on the amount of players playing in the top 5 leagues, it's Real Madrid, Barcelona, Lyon, United and Valencia. Ajax aren't in the top 10.

Well, clearly I wasn't using that criteria, JP.

 

[RC89]

Dortmund are better apparently

Dortmund don't have a great academy. They have great scouts. Atleast that's the way I see it. They are great at developing the young players they purchase though.

 

[Ødegaard]

Schalke, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Lyon & Ajax should all be up there for consideration. Probably a fair few clubs that produce a good stream of top league level players.

 

[Rozay]

And PSG has a better academy than Benfica or Ajax.

Indeed, PSG have a brilliant academy. If they hadn’t lost their soul only a few years ago they would have been playing them. Only Kimpembe is in the team, but rhey have lost Rabiot, Coman, Kouassi, Diaby, Nkunku and Aouachile or however you spell his name seems to be off too. They always seem to have a tiny squad to me too, so don’t see why some of these kids don’t play more. The league is easy for them for a start.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

I don’t see any other club doing better than what you have outlined above. And there are more on the way too. Beyond that, we had a whole bunch of PL winners in Leicester’s squad in 2016 too, and many more in the PL, although when you start looking at other clubs the likes of Ajax, Benfica and co have a better argument - as their graduates are littered throughout better clubs than ours.

And Pereira and Lingard have played over 30 games each this season, they are very much squad players.

I agree that the other top candidates doesn't seem to be doing well at the moment with producing new top talents, or maybe my knowledge is not enough.
Either way, I don't think any other top teams are actually producing top potential youngsters and older youth at the moment and pool them all in one squad successfully.

Rashford, Greenwood and Pogba are definitely best recognized youth in parent club now, then McT at lower tier.

Our academy supply is too England/Britain-centric though while the other candidates ventured outside to even other top teams and top leagues as you've said. Other than Pogba had amazing career at Juve, were there any other? not really, just a few in comparison at lower teams.

Our current squad incorporating more +academy players have good potential to be the best. That's just it. I don't fancy our chances with the "more on the way too", just Henderson and Axel the closest if I'm being honest but then is Dean seriously displacing DDG one day? It depends on how brave and bold Ole will be. Axel have the advantage of our CB department lacking due to injuries, so he maybe will be an injury prone squad player once he get many more games (like Jones who I think is better in terms of getting games per season than Axel). Will the other youths ready? not many talents are like Rash nor GW, and even GW takes time slowly to be the starter now, previously regular. We have a manager that is opening the door more though so the potential always remain.

Basically just 6 players at the moment and for me will maintain that way around that number next season if I'm being honest. Incoming new (expensive?) players will come in and limit the other youth's appearances.

I still don't think it's enough.

It's an updated perceived current squad list, wouldn't take into consideration past appearances - I'm not confident Lingard is still within Ole's plan for next season. Pereira at least still lingers around on the bench and still playing few minutes. So just 6.

 

[Rozay]

I agree that the other top candidates doesn't seem to be doing well at the moment with producing new top talents, or maybe my knowledge is not enough.
Either way, I don't think any other top teams are actually producing top potential youngsters and older youth at the moment and pool them all in one squad successfully.

Rashford, Greenwood and Pogba are definitely best recognized youth in parent club now, then McT at lower tier.

Our academy supply is too England/Britain-centric though while the other candidates ventured outside to even other top teams and top leagues as you've said. Other than Pogba had amazing career at Juve, were there any other? not really, just a few in comparison at lower teams.

Our current squad incorporating more +academy players have good potential to be the best. That's just it. I don't fancy our chances with the "more on the way too", just Henderson and Axel the closest if I'm being honest but then is Dean seriously displacing DDG one day? It depends on how brave and bold Ole will be. Axel have the advantage of our CB department lacking due to injuries, so he maybe will be an injury prone squad player once he get many more games (like Jones who I think is better in terms of getting games per season than Axel). Will the other youths ready? not many talents are like Rash nor GW, and even GW takes time slowly to be the starter now, previously regular. We have a manager that is opening the door more though so the potential always remain.

Basically just 6 players at the moment and for me will maintain that way around that number next season if I'm being honest. Incoming new (expensive?) players will come in and limit the other youth's appearances.

I still don't think it's enough.

It's an updated perceived current squad list, wouldn't take into consideration past appearances - I'm not confident Lingard is still within Ole's plan for next season. Pereira at least still lingers around on the bench and still playing few minutes. So just 6.

I can’t see Henderson not getting a shot at some point. Axel will get a chance to stake a claim if he keeps fit too, but behind that lot - Laird is as much a cert as Greenwood for me. Then of course you would imagine Mejbri gets a shot. I think it will stay around 6 or 7 though. Some will come through, but others will leave too. Players like McTominay or Williams could choose to join a Leicester or whoever in a few years if they choose to play regularly. They will replace each other. Laird may remove Williams from the squad, Garner may remove Scott, but the number will remain fairly constant for a while. 6 or 7 out of the first team squad is a fantastic return, especially for a trophy chasing club.

 

[JPRouve]

Indeed, PSG have a brilliant academy. If they hadn’t lost their soul only a few years ago they would have been playing them. Only Kimpembe is in the team, but rhey have lost Rabiot, Coman, Kouassi, Diaby, Nkunku and Aouachile or however you spell his name seems to be off too. They always seem to have a tiny squad to me too, so don’t see why some of these kids don’t play more. The league is easy for them for a start.

No it's not about losing their souls now, PSG have been a poorly run club for a while and they didn't use their academy before, in fact they use it more now but it's not enough because they really don't need to spend on some of the players they purchase.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Best in the UK, one of the best (if not the best) in Europe. Who would come close? Sporting, Bayern, Ajax and a few others perhaps. In South America Boca/River/Corinthians/Santos etc.

We have a shout!

 

[2mufc0]

We are the best in England, although Chelsea have been churning out quite a few talents recently.

 

[Rozay]

No it's not about losing their souls now, PSG have been a poorly run club for a while and they didn't use their academy before, in fact they use it more now but it's not enough because they really don't need to spend on some of the players they purchase.

Ah okay, that’s a shame then.

 

[red4ever 79]

Think Ajax are still out in front for me. Look at the two boys they sold last summer De Jong and De Ligt.

 

[Rozay]

We are the best in England, although Chelsea have been churning out quite a few talents recently.

They are doing well, although I don’t think they have one £100m player, let alone 3. Perhaps Hudson-Odoi could be around that level if he buckles down.

 

[M Bison]

We’re definitely up there with the best and it’s obviously been a few years in the making. Not just the academy but the acquisition strategy also supports/promotes youth.

Despite the criticism Ed and Glazers get, done a cracking job with the academy.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Bayern has a really good academy as well Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Kroos, Muller, Alaba, Hargreaves all came out in the last years. Really top players from there.

Sporting Lisboa has a great academy as well, Figo, Ronaldo, Nani, Joao Moutinho, Rui Patricio, Quaresma, Adrien Silva, William Carvahlo, Simao, Gelson Martins, Cedric Soares, Ricardo Pereira, Joao Mario, Jose Fonte, etc

 

[JPRouve]

It shouldn't be about only today though, there is history associated with Ajax graduates from the 70's and then 90's. That's why I mentioned you can't distinguish between the 3 because it fluctuates every decade. In the 90's, with the Ajax and United batches coming through, you would say one of the two, then in the 00's with not only Barca's batch also many others that left earlier (Fabregas, Reina) you could say Barca. Today, the argument can be made for United given the number of great youth products currently in the first XI.

The only thing against Barca though is that they are much more decent, with their academy really blossoming after Cruyff revitalized La Masia in the 80's, while United have a history of youth products from the 50's. Ofcourse there is my own ignorance about football in the past but I can't remember Barca having a similar batch of players coming through before the 80's.

I can't agree with that, you are basically giving more weight to the few big names produced than you do to the actual work of an academy which is to produce average and above average players on a regular basis. To me your criteria is more about who has the most famous academy than who has the most productive, I consider the latter as more indicative of the best because it tells me that the academy doesn't rely on exceptional talent but on developing average ones into good professional footballers.

And Real Madrid are strangely underrated, in the 70s they were producing quality players, some formed la Quinta del Butre( Michel, Sanchis, Pardeza, Vasquez and Butragueno) before that it was Camacho, in the 80s-90s it was the likes of Canizares, Raul, Guti or Casillas and in the 2000s it was the likes of Mata, Carvajal, Morata, Saul Niguez, Callejon, Rodrigo or Soldado.

 

[Irrational.]

You mean it's not City's ELITE DEVELOPMENT SQUAD?

 

[crossy1686]

It’s not even a debate.

United are in the top 3, Ajax are up there, Barcelona in recent years are up there also. I’d still put United first due to how many players make the United first team or play at the top level elsewhere.

 

[pacifictheme]

Even look at the amount of players who haven’t made it here but go on to have solid careers at a decent level, likes of Robbie Brady, Welbeck, Cleverley, Foster etc.

What classes as made it because cleverly and welbeck contributed well to title winnings sides. And welbeck made almost 150 appearances for the club.

And we bought Ben Foster.

All in all not the greatest post ever seen on the caf.