Rojo is not good with the ball. He can't make an consistently accurate pass over 20 meters. Whenever he plays an obvious strategy of opposing teams is make us pass him the ball, cut off the easy pass and force him to make a decision to play a medium to long pass.
Best CB pairing
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Currently, Rojo and Lindelof as they complement each other best.
Lindelöf and Tuanzebe
I disagree strongly with anyone who includes Tuanzebe in our best CB pairing. He may be class in two or three years if he develops properly, but right now, this season, he is not better than Smalling and Jones.
They are premier league proven defenders, and he is not. Anyone wanting to chuck him in to start for us is either mad, or is willing to live with a season of mistakes and growing pains etc (kinda similar to Rashford last year).
Its just too big of a jump in quality for a CB to go from the Championship to the Prem. Smalling and Jones would walk the Championship!
They are premier league proven defenders, and he is not. Anyone wanting to chuck him in to start for us is either mad, or is willing to live with a season of mistakes and growing pains etc (kinda similar to Rashford last year).
Its just too big of a jump in quality for a CB to go from the Championship to the Prem. Smalling and Jones would walk the Championship!
Smalling and Lindelof. We can improve on both but both are good premiership defenders in their own right. The ideal would be to replace Smalling with a ball player without losing his defensive quality. People that don't think smalling is a good defender are pure grass is greener guys.
Yeah, needs to cut those mistakes out to be like Smalling and Jones. To don’t see them constantly fecking up, not with all their premier league experience.
Smalling and Lindelof with Tuanzebe rotating with either of them.
Haha point taken. I wish we had a VVD type who could come in and dominate right away, but right now I was picking the best pair by the players that in our squad today.
And I stand by my point; Jones and Smalling are better CBs this season.
With Bailly injury, I would go with Lindelof & Rojo. No more chuckle brothers
I understand your point, but the quality of our CBs (with the exception of Lindelof) is at a level where I don’t think Tuanzebes inexperience would be a significant downgrade, if at all. By the end of the year he’d be better than the lot of them.
Initially I thought this but then when you actually watch them individually, I don't think the gap is that big. Our issues last season were more tactical then individual in my mind and now we have an RB, if we sort out our defensive line, our DM and generally not giving the ball away in stupid positions we'll cut out half the goals we conceded last season.
I do think Smalling is currently a 'safer' option defensively but I would personally go with Tuanzebe because he's already able to be a contributor offensively and clearly has the potential. Expectations this season will be the most tempered they've been in some time and a great environment to bring the younger players through and implement a new style of football.
Well we can agree to disagree; I do think it would be a significant downgrade and think right now our best pairing is Lindelof and Jones.
Is it too much to ask for Tuanzebe to have some minutes at CB in the premier league before he steps in for Manchester United? As far as I remember, his minutes for us were weird man-marking roles, or at RB. And even then that was just a handful of minutes.
If we have Lindelof and Tuanzebe as our starting CBs we will get destroyed on set-pieces as both aren't good enough in the air. Lindelof is quality when he has a partner that can dominate the box, ie a Vidic-type.
For example -- who would mark West Ham's Diop on a corner? Matic? Pogba? It would be a disaster.
I actually agree .Rojo is not great but he actually plays LCB and the only that provide natural balance to allow Lindelof to play on his strong side. The chuckle brothers are certainly not significantly better- infact all three are pretty much on the same level.
The introduction of VAR means Rojo should maybe look for a different league. He will give away PKs and collect reds like its going out of style.
This why we need to bring in Maguire, we need to move on from Smalling and Jones.
The only issue with that is if we have a high line, which we will do if we intend to press high, a Lindelof-Maguire partnership might be too slow. It might work if we told Shaw to stay back and cover though.
This is why I think tuanzebe would be a better as he has pace and would allow us to play a high line.
Smalling is limited but effective.
Tuanzebe has a higher ceiling and is faster, more technical and a better decision maker. It seems the scouting report on him is that he’s not good in the air.... does anyone know how that narrative came about? I have watched him carefully in preseason, and he looks competent in the air. Are there some Aston Villa clips of him shitting the bed on set pieces? Is it defensively or offensively that he’s poor?
If it’s just height that we are looking at, I just don’t see how a 6’1” CB is a liability. Is he as tall as Smalling? No. But neither is Sergio Ramos, who is just 6ft, and may be the best CB in the air in the history of football....
Tuanzebe has a higher ceiling and is faster, more technical and a better decision maker. It seems the scouting report on him is that he’s not good in the air.... does anyone know how that narrative came about? I have watched him carefully in preseason, and he looks competent in the air. Are there some Aston Villa clips of him shitting the bed on set pieces? Is it defensively or offensively that he’s poor?
If it’s just height that we are looking at, I just don’t see how a 6’1” CB is a liability. Is he as tall as Smalling? No. But neither is Sergio Ramos, who is just 6ft, and may be the best CB in the air in the history of football....
CBs have to cover. LBs and RBs are too much a part of the attack and in the case of a turnover, cannot cover ground fast enough. Also, your LB/RB doesn’t set the line of defence, always needs to be the CB because the striker is frequently on their shoulder. In fact, many RBs / LBs frequently are at fault for playing central strikers onside. This would compound that...
The perfect fit for Lindelof isn't Maguire imo. Have to look overseas to find mr x
Smalling plus whichever one of the rest is A) Fit, B) in least poor form.
At the moment,
Lindelof and Smalling. No other pairing is even that close.
Lindelof and Smalling. No other pairing is even that close.
Tuanzebe and Maguire as the best CB pairing. I'd play lindelof as a defensive midfielder if we fail to bring in a new midfielder.
McTominay
That's why he needs to play to be developed properly.
Because seven centre backs clearly isn't enough
Tough one.
Smalling - for me by far our best pure defender - Great recovery pace, strong in the air, reasonable tackler & man-marker. I worry about his handbags with VAR's inception but hope he'd be smart enough to cut that out. He has to be in there, unless we upgrade to a Maguire type aerially-dominant CB.
Lindelof - our best ball-playing CB - Composed, looks for the positive pass into good areas, decent in the tackle but a bit passive for my liking. He's weak in the air and doesn't have great recovery pace, always looked like more of a DM than a CB to me.
Tuanzebe - Highest potential - Seems a really well rounded young CB, defensively solid while also comfortable on the ball. I can see that aerially he's not exactly dominant but I'd place him above Lindelof in this department, and he seems to be improving all the time.
Bailly - Athletic / Insane - Great athleticism, strong in the tackle and certainly someone strikers will worry about having on their shoulder. Embarrassingly bad in the air and constantly injured. It's a shame as you can see he's got potential, I think he started his professional career too late to make it.
Rojo / Jones - Permacrocks. A stable CB partnership is more important in many ways than its constituent parts. These guys will never string enough games together to allow us that. I do think Jones would have been fantastic with a working body, so that's a shame. Rojo, I've never seen it, awful player.
Smalling / Tuanzebe for me, assuming no incoming CB. Gives a nice immediate balance, while allowing our best defensive talent to develop alongside a reasonably stable partner.
Lindelof / Jones / 'A. Youngster' as backup. Bailly sold to the highest bidder. Rojo sent to the clappers yard.
Edit: Maybe TFM can stick around as 5th CB? Nice to have his versatility I suppose.
Smalling - for me by far our best pure defender - Great recovery pace, strong in the air, reasonable tackler & man-marker. I worry about his handbags with VAR's inception but hope he'd be smart enough to cut that out. He has to be in there, unless we upgrade to a Maguire type aerially-dominant CB.
Lindelof - our best ball-playing CB - Composed, looks for the positive pass into good areas, decent in the tackle but a bit passive for my liking. He's weak in the air and doesn't have great recovery pace, always looked like more of a DM than a CB to me.
Tuanzebe - Highest potential - Seems a really well rounded young CB, defensively solid while also comfortable on the ball. I can see that aerially he's not exactly dominant but I'd place him above Lindelof in this department, and he seems to be improving all the time.
Bailly - Athletic / Insane - Great athleticism, strong in the tackle and certainly someone strikers will worry about having on their shoulder. Embarrassingly bad in the air and constantly injured. It's a shame as you can see he's got potential, I think he started his professional career too late to make it.
Rojo / Jones - Permacrocks. A stable CB partnership is more important in many ways than its constituent parts. These guys will never string enough games together to allow us that. I do think Jones would have been fantastic with a working body, so that's a shame. Rojo, I've never seen it, awful player.
Smalling / Tuanzebe for me, assuming no incoming CB. Gives a nice immediate balance, while allowing our best defensive talent to develop alongside a reasonably stable partner.
Lindelof / Jones / 'A. Youngster' as backup. Bailly sold to the highest bidder. Rojo sent to the clappers yard.
Edit: Maybe TFM can stick around as 5th CB? Nice to have his versatility I suppose.
It still amazes me how Rojo/Jones was somehow an excellent and stable CB partnership in 2016/17
I am not sure what games do you usually watch, but the only thing Jones has proven in Premier League is that he is not anywhere near the level you should be at Man United. He should have been sold 4 years ago and should never feature in our side, unless everybody else is injured and we are desperate.
Smalling is a step up from Jones, but Smalling of 2018/2019 is not for a team that has any ambition whatsoever. He is too dull, he makes at least 1-2 critical errors a game that top clubs are going to turn into a goal.
If you have Lindelof and somebody like Maguire, of course you won't start Tuanzebe, but he should be given all the chances to develop. So what if he is not finished product? Firstly, he got great experience with Villa and isn't just an academy player. Secondly - that is what giving youngsters a chance means - allowing them to play and develop while they are still unfinished. If you don't do it then you are not the club that truly gives youngsters chances and Man United's DNA has been the club that does.
We are fortunate to have youngsters like Tuanzebe, Greenwood, Gomes and others. All three should play as much as possible this year. Hopefully alongside more experienced players who teach them and show them ropes.
I think it’s the molehill into a mountain story. The Villa fans I’ve seen has said things like Mings has been more dominant in the air, which is reasonable, and that it’s an area of development for Tuanzebe in order to be a complete top level centre back. They also say he’s competent in the air.
So far what I’ve seen is he’s not yet Smalling, but he has done quite well with aereal balls.
CB is so much about understanding of positions, movement and cooperation with the other CB and the rest of the defense, that’s were it’s natural that Tuanzebe has a lot to learn before he is first choice at United. He looks very promising, though, and I hope what he shows in training is good enough to capture one of the four top spots for CB by the start of the season. Otherwise he should be sent on loan.
Probably going to be Smalling and Lindelof again which is clearly not good enough.
If we do buy Maguire it will be him and Lindelof, and then we start to look ok. Smalling is a capable backup alongside Tuanzebe and one of the others.
Bailly is never going to stay fit long enough to develop into a top player, Rojo hasn't been much better and Jones should have gone years ago.
If we do buy Maguire it will be him and Lindelof, and then we start to look ok. Smalling is a capable backup alongside Tuanzebe and one of the others.
Bailly is never going to stay fit long enough to develop into a top player, Rojo hasn't been much better and Jones should have gone years ago.
Victor - New CB
I think if he's fit then Jones maybe edges it ahead of Smalling alongside Lindelof. But therein lies the problem
Smalling - X
--- Y ---
A decent DM is vital in the world of 3-4-3--- Y ---
Lindelof + 1 (Hopefully Maguire).
I never would have sold blind. Really liked him as a playerI miss Blind
The only pair we've had in recent years that have complimented one another is Smalling and Blind. Out of our current CBs, one of Lindelof, Bailly or Rojo with one of Smalling or Jones.
Thats not a bad shout and one I hadn't considered. He would at least have some balls and we could trust he would do everything he possibly can to win the header. And I remember him getting his head on a few corners for us last year and at least showing some effort.
But despite your good answer, I still think we will struggle on set-pieces!
Maguire + Smalling to close down air traffic completely.
Maguire + Victor against bit more complex rivals.
Tuanzebe + Jones/Rojo early stages in the cups.
Maguire + Victor against bit more complex rivals.
Tuanzebe + Jones/Rojo early stages in the cups.
Agree to disagree. I think Phil Jones is outstanding and only his poor record with untimely injuries has kept him from cementing his place as our CB.
I have no qualms with the majority who think he has been given enough chances and want to see us sign a dominate CB to test the grass is always greener idea, but I am certain that the team who signs him will consider themselves lucky. If he gets a run of games, for someone like Crystal Palace maybe, we will see his quality and I bet there will be posters on here, besides just me, who lament the decision to run him out.