I don't think Pep's Barca were boring. Meanwhile Spain team of this period was a complete borefest despite their success. They were playing Tiki Taka to its core, their games were completely dead in World Cup 2010.
Best club side ever?
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Well the difference there was Messi. Take Messi out and it was just a Spain style borefest.
These are the 3 that are widely accepted as the greatest club sides of all time by many football journalists and former players / coaches. I don't think you can disagree with them either.
To be under consideration you have to have done a 3peat league with a CL in there too.
Mauro Tassoti nothing special
He didn't play for Italy because an all time great in Bergomi was there until 1990, and in 1994 he did play until he got himself banned from international games.
Out of the Barcelona lineup you could easily identify Valdes, Abidal, Pique, Puyol/Toure, and an ageing Henry as weakpoints. Definitely weaker than the Milan equivalents in a conversation of world class players. Their tactic was to have good ball players in defence so they keep the ball and didn't need to do much defending. On the occasions they were pressured, they suffered.
Mascherano instead of Puyol at CB?
Thank you i see more clearly through your argument now.! There is no denying that Milan's defense was all time great, and it was not my intent to belittle it, rather i wanted to raise awareness on the prowesses of Barça's defense from 2008-11 which was also an all time great one, which is something often overlooked and underrated when discussing that team. During those 3 seasons they conceded merely 0.70 goals a game which is a figure similar to the one of Milan.
As for Tassotti...
Thanks for your insights, i may have judged him too harshly, i am willing to re-evaluate my judgement on him.
That's not true, he started the first game against ireland which ended up in a loss, after that Bennarivo was starting over him, he made an appearance in the Quarter finals, elbowed Luis Enrique and got suspended by Fifa.Mauro Tassoti nothing special
He didn't play for Italy because an all time great in Bergomi was there until 1990, and in 1994 he did play until he got himself banned from international games.
With all due respects, this statement couldn't be further from the truth. That team main strength was their press resistance, if anything they struggled the most against low blocks, when teams were putting the most defensive line up against them and hoped to get them on the counter (cf El famoso Pepe-Khedira-Alonso midfield). The first time they struggled against a high press was against Bayern Munich in 2013, the team was already past it at that point, but there is no instance of them struggling against a high press during 2008-11.
And there is no way that Pique, Puyol, Abidal and Henry were weak point. What is even a weak point for you because all of these players were world class. Piqué and Puyol were the backline that won spain the World Cup, conceding only 2 goals during the whole tournament (lowest tally in history), and as i pointed out earlier, Barça's defense was the best of the top 5 leagues at the time. So defense was in no way a weak point. Same goes for Abidal who was a regular starter for France knowing that he was competing for the spot of left back with another world class player in Evra.
Henry scored 26 goals in 42 games, how is scoring 0.6 goals a game get you labelled as a "weak point" it doesn't make sense.
It seems like you considered anyone on that team who didn't at an all time great level as a weak point which is a fallacy. Especially when you know that we are comparing this team with Milan who had to field unimpressive players not good enough to make their national team regularly.
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Yes. They were indeed incredibly good but time has a way of creating legends and painting incredible pictures of past events. Let’s not forget the infamous semifinal against Chelsea for example.
I am not watched that great milan or ajax sides to comment about them. But that pep s barca that's one of the overhyped teams ever. The dark arts of pep s barca and fawning around like cry babies I was totally detested with their antics.
That team full of midgets and get all the support from officials. I just not able to take them as a serious outfit as a football team in my lifetime.
I mean you have messi goat midfield maestros Xavi and Iniesta and yet feigning injuries and all theatrics and get control from officials. Greatest of era never ever in my opinion. I will take 2008 finalists,Ancelotti s milan in that era than that pep s barca.
That team full of midgets and get all the support from officials. I just not able to take them as a serious outfit as a football team in my lifetime.
I mean you have messi goat midfield maestros Xavi and Iniesta and yet feigning injuries and all theatrics and get control from officials. Greatest of era never ever in my opinion. I will take 2008 finalists,Ancelotti s milan in that era than that pep s barca.
The short list is obvious, but the side that edges it for me is Barcelona 2009. There were no weaknesses in the side whatsoever. Messi was at the very top of his game of what many regard as a GOAT, and Xavi and Iniesta were well beyond merely outstanding. They were incredible from back to front.
But to be fair, Barca 09 were hideous to watch. Impressive, but if tiki taka had indeed become the future of football the sport would have unbearable to watch. But if we’re asking the question of pure dominance and mastery, Barca 09 is your answer.
But to be fair, Barca 09 were hideous to watch. Impressive, but if tiki taka had indeed become the future of football the sport would have unbearable to watch. But if we’re asking the question of pure dominance and mastery, Barca 09 is your answer.
My Heart says it wasn’t Barca (2009/2011). Nothing to do with the opponent’s in the finals, just the Tiki Taka- interchangeable style of play.
Heart: Milan Early 90s.
Head: Barca 2009/2011
Heart: Milan Early 90s.
Head: Barca 2009/2011
The Luis Enrique Barca was far more entertaining and enjoyable to watch, the dinho team was pure entertainment, peps team was an efficient monster, but football is the beautiful game and has to be judged on style as well as trophies.
In my time watching (2004 onwards) it's the real Madrid team of the mid 2010s. World class in every position and stylistically they'd give every team a game, even Peps Barca. 3 CLs in a row is no easy feet, and in one of those they faced PSG, Bayern, Juve in consecutive knockout rounds.
I always think Peps Barca are a little overrated. 2009 they were lucky to be in the final and the game was reasonably close, 2011 our team had regressed massively but aside from Madrid who were themselves still forming as a team, there were no real top teams around in the CL. Hell Shalke made the semis. I really think if we had our 2008 final team available for the 2009 one we wouldve beat Barcelona. They were good, but not that good.
I always think Peps Barca are a little overrated. 2009 they were lucky to be in the final and the game was reasonably close, 2011 our team had regressed massively but aside from Madrid who were themselves still forming as a team, there were no real top teams around in the CL. Hell Shalke made the semis. I really think if we had our 2008 final team available for the 2009 one we wouldve beat Barcelona. They were good, but not that good.
Would have been awesome to watch that side against Prime Barca. About as much technical skill as you could possibly have on the pitch.
Yeah the first season of MSN is some of the most lethal stuff I’ve ever seen, and was so fun to watch a Barca team attack quickly after years of just slow domination under pep.
I thought it was pretty much unanimous it's Pep's Barca.
Liverpool 2019/20 they were going to break loads of records and everything.
I think there's a bit of selective memory going on here. The only big team that Pep's Barcelona beat by four or more goals in the CL was Bayern in 2009. And that was Bayern under Klinsmann who were 4th in the league at the time and had just gotten a similar trashing by Wolfsburg, so they were hardly world class. Barcelona also got knocked out by pretty average sides (relatively speaking) in both 2010 and 2012 and were incredibly lucky to get past Chelsea in 2009. It's only in 2011 that they were truly dominant and even then they lost their first match to Arsenal in the Ro16.
Not to say Pep's Barca weren't a great team, but I think a lot gets overshadowed by beating a good United twice in the final and those two dominant victories against Real.
Barca 2011, Milan late 80-'s, early 90's are the 2 best teams(including international) maybe ever, Madrid in the last decade might have the best squad ever, had a ridiculous group all in their prime at the same time.
Bayern Munich 2012/13 or 19/20
Probably Guardiolas Barcelona, but anybody saying by a mile cant have watched football before this century. Many other fantastic sides.
See a lot of people mentioning the early 90s Milan side with the three dutch players, which came a tad early for channel 4. I think Milan had a few sides that were fantastic with so many fabulous players up front. I think the side that won the champions league in 94 was a fantastic side. There demolition of Barcelona in the final was one of the best performances I have ever seen and though the dutch players were gone I tink, they had the same defensive quality as well as the likes of Boban and Savicevic, who were fabulous players as well as the steel of Desailly and Albertini in midfield. I think they would have beaten the great Pep Barcelona side myself......would certainyl like to have seen Messi trying to run past Maldini, good luck with that
The Juventus side that followed with Zidane, Davids, Del Piero, Conte, De Livio was also a fantastic hard working side. Part of the reason I think we won the treble was how much our players learnt from playing that side.
The young LVG Ajax side with Van de Sar, Litmanen, Davids, Seedorf, Kluivert could also have gone on to be a great side if it wasnt broken up so early.
I think anothe rthing to remember is the three foreigners rule in the early to mid nineties. Our side around then was a fantastically powerful side decimatd in Europe by that rule, which was highlighted by Romario and Stoichkov tearing us apart.
See a lot of people mentioning the early 90s Milan side with the three dutch players, which came a tad early for channel 4. I think Milan had a few sides that were fantastic with so many fabulous players up front. I think the side that won the champions league in 94 was a fantastic side. There demolition of Barcelona in the final was one of the best performances I have ever seen and though the dutch players were gone I tink, they had the same defensive quality as well as the likes of Boban and Savicevic, who were fabulous players as well as the steel of Desailly and Albertini in midfield. I think they would have beaten the great Pep Barcelona side myself......would certainyl like to have seen Messi trying to run past Maldini, good luck with that
The Juventus side that followed with Zidane, Davids, Del Piero, Conte, De Livio was also a fantastic hard working side. Part of the reason I think we won the treble was how much our players learnt from playing that side.
The young LVG Ajax side with Van de Sar, Litmanen, Davids, Seedorf, Kluivert could also have gone on to be a great side if it wasnt broken up so early.
I think anothe rthing to remember is the three foreigners rule in the early to mid nineties. Our side around then was a fantastically powerful side decimatd in Europe by that rule, which was highlighted by Romario and Stoichkov tearing us apart.
Pep's Barca in their pomp were unreal. They made Real Madrid and yourselves look like lower league teams in the 2010/11 season. The 5-0 Classico is still the greatest game I've ever watched. Just utter destruction. Total domination.
I remember being there for Newton Heath's first game and thinking that they'd kick anybody off the park.
Pep's Barcelona wasn't boring. It was the opponents who made it boring. If the opponents came out to attack it was a great spectacle of the sport. If the opponents dug in it was boring, but not because of the team trying to unlock a parked 747!
Anyway, other candidates:
Milan and Juventus sides of the 90s (got a greater appreciation for them after reading Michael Cox's book)
Cryuff's Ajax that he played in
I think United of 2006-09 qualifies. 1 CL, 1 final, 1 semi, and 3 leagues. Chelsea of 2004-06 isn't far behind although the lack of a CL final is a mark against them.
Real Madrid that won 3 CLs in a row... But didn't they win only 1 league in that period? Borderline.
Side note: Heynekes' Bayern had an excellent 2012-13 but didn't they shit the bed at home against Chelsea, at home, in the CL final a year ago? And didn't they lose the league to Dortmund? The team the following year was a classic "lightning in a bottle" team that channeled the disappointment and embarrassment of the previous year into destroying teams in front of them. People cite the Barcelona game but I think the Juventus tie was their best performance that season. Anyhoo... You need more than a season of dominance to rank at the top. Heynekes' Bayern doesn't qualify. Neither does Flick's Bayern.
Anyway, other candidates:
Milan and Juventus sides of the 90s (got a greater appreciation for them after reading Michael Cox's book)
Cryuff's Ajax that he played in
I think United of 2006-09 qualifies. 1 CL, 1 final, 1 semi, and 3 leagues. Chelsea of 2004-06 isn't far behind although the lack of a CL final is a mark against them.
Real Madrid that won 3 CLs in a row... But didn't they win only 1 league in that period? Borderline.
Side note: Heynekes' Bayern had an excellent 2012-13 but didn't they shit the bed at home against Chelsea, at home, in the CL final a year ago? And didn't they lose the league to Dortmund? The team the following year was a classic "lightning in a bottle" team that channeled the disappointment and embarrassment of the previous year into destroying teams in front of them. People cite the Barcelona game but I think the Juventus tie was their best performance that season. Anyhoo... You need more than a season of dominance to rank at the top. Heynekes' Bayern doesn't qualify. Neither does Flick's Bayern.
AC Milan though I hate to say it. Detest them after they broke my heart in 69
I've never seen a team dominate Europe like Sacchi's + Cappello's Milan. Just looking at the results they also showed a long winning consistency.
Basically from 89-95 was in the final in 5 out 7 seasons!
- The 88-89 Milan was the most dominant European team I've seen. They managed to tw@t Real Madrid 5-0 (6-1 in aggregate) in the semifinals and won 4-0 against Steaua in the final (who had won a few years ago)
- Next year Milan retained the European Cup again beating Benfica in the final.
- The following season, 90-91 Milan lost in somewhat controversial circumstances when "Milan were eliminated by Marseille in the quarter-finals after the second leg had been awarded as a 3–0 win for Marseille when the eventual runners-up were leading 1–0, and 2–1 on aggregate, in injury time, when the floodlights failed. Milan refused to come on when floodlights were fixed and were banned, giving Marseille a 3–0 automatic win". Have no recollection of it though
- 91-92 they were banned because of the above
- 92-93 they lost in the final to Marseille again who kinda became their bete noir
- 93-94 they won the competition again tw@tting 4-0 in the final the so-called 'Cruyff's dream team' with Romario, Stotichkov and Koeman. They utterly annihilated Barca, it could have been 7 or 8.
- 94-95 lost in the final to a Kluivert wonder goal
Basically from 89-95 was in the final in 5 out 7 seasons!
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If we're judging on style then we need to bring Ajax and Bayern in the 70s back into the discussion, but for me the United 98/99 side had as much as style and swaggger as any side ever. Total homer reaction on my part of course, but the audacity of that side was truly memorable. But if we're going be honest, we got played off the park in the first 90 minutes v a fairly unmemorable Bayern side. But then again we were without Scholes and Keane, the two greatest midfielders of the premiership era to date.
But yeah, the Barca 09 were nasty to watch. Tiki fukking taka until Messi was released. I much prefer the Barca sides over the next decade, although their star had fallen after 11.
Peps Barca for sure, especially in 2011. David Villa, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets all at their peaks... disgustingly good and dominant. It was pretty much perfect technically, so I don't care how good a defensive side is, at their best I don't think you can beat that. Brilliant side and then add the best player of all time at his peak and well, there you go.
Look at the personnel, 1988: Galli, Maldini, Baresi, Costacurta, Tassoti, Colombo, Donadoni, Ancelotti, Rijkaard, Gullit, Van Basten - there was no weaknesses there. Best defense ever, a very good midfield with Ancelotti, Rijkaard Donadoni and Gullit and one of the best centreforwards ever in MVB.
Lineups from 88 and 89 European Cup Finals:
1993 they played with Rossi, Maldini, Baresi, Costacurta, Tassoti --> Donadoni, Albertini, Rijkaard, Lentini --> Van Basten, Massaro -- same
1994 they let MVB retire to injuries, sold Rijkaard + brought Desailly, Boban, Savicevic
Lineups from 93 and 94 European Cup Finals:
Lineups from 88 and 89 European Cup Finals:
1993 they played with Rossi, Maldini, Baresi, Costacurta, Tassoti --> Donadoni, Albertini, Rijkaard, Lentini --> Van Basten, Massaro -- same
1994 they let MVB retire to injuries, sold Rijkaard + brought Desailly, Boban, Savicevic
Lineups from 93 and 94 European Cup Finals:
United of 99-01 would qualify but it seemed the foot was taken off the gas in Europe after 99.
As always, an excellent, detailed post. I only seen Barca but, without a doubt, they're my favourite team, stylistically, aesthetically. Just magnificent in every sense of the word. I loved Spain too. In 2008, they were absolutely unplayable. I was overjoyed to see Russia absolutely play teams off the park under Hiddink but Spain were just too good. Too good.
Objectively: Peps Barca 2011. Spain 2008.
What my heart says: Russia 2008.
I could never pick United, even we were winning everything, the cnuts still gave me nightmares. I got way, way too nervous back in the day.
Barcelona 2009-2011. Played football out of this world.
For team chemistry, Pep's Barcelona.
For firepower and individual quality, Madrid's triple winning CL side.
For firepower and individual quality, Madrid's triple winning CL side.
Peps Barcelona is the greatest football that'll ever be played imo. The 5-0 against Madrid always comes to mind as one of their best performances.
99 united wasn't even the best in Europe those years. Only English teams today could be considered the best in the world were Liverpool when they dominated.
It's kind of sad Fergie came so close to creating teams that could dominate Europe for years, but was possibly just 1 world class player short from winning 2 or 3 CL titles in a row.
Imagine that team of 99 with a prime Bryan Robson playing central mid in a 433 with Keane and Scholes. Or Viera in that 2008 team in central mid in a 433 with Carrick and Scholes, with Cristiano, Rooney and Giggs up front!
Imagine that team of 99 with a prime Bryan Robson playing central mid in a 433 with Keane and Scholes. Or Viera in that 2008 team in central mid in a 433 with Carrick and Scholes, with Cristiano, Rooney and Giggs up front!
Definitely a favourite of mine.
Milan was a fearsome force in world football and dominated from late 80's till mid 90's. Star studded opponents had no answers to Milan's famous 'pressing' system developed by Sacchi in the late 80's and continued by Fabio Capello's sides till the mid 90's. Other than the insane personnel in defense (Baresi, Tassoti, Costacurta, Maldini), Milan would 'shorten the the pitch' and press like maniacs to recoup the ball. Up front they had the best centerforward in MVB and plenty of talent on the wings Gullit/Donadoni and steel in midfield Rijkaard/Ancelotti
I was just watching the AC Milan - Barcelona final earlier, and I've never seen a more one-sided CL final ever. Milan were missing Baresi and Costacurta in the final and Barca were highly favorites to win. Cruyff started with three strikers and ... didn't create a chance, while Milan dominated proceedeings throughout. Savicevic and Donadoni killed them on the wings and Desilly and Albertini just owned Pep & co. The shell-shocked look on Cruyff's face in the second half really sums up how outclassed Barca were.
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This is a good point, but I’d say that the Barca big three were better than the Milan big three.
Except that Pep’s Barca won more than Zidane’s Madrid and played better football.