Best club side ever?

[Charlie Foley]

Pep’s Barca this century. Before that, Dutch trio AC Milan, and Ajax in the 70s.

I don’t think the Madrid three peat team belong in the conversation and I think it’s pretty superficial to do so. They didn’t impact football the way the really great teams have. and a worse Barca team than Pep’s beat them to the title twice in that timespan. Anyone watching their 2016 run especially who says “this is an argument in support of them being THE BEST TEAM EVER” needs to give their head a wobble.

Think @harms has the right order personally.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

That 12/13 Bayern team was absolutely ridiculous with their demolition job of Barca. 25 point margin of victory in the league, and Dortmund were no slouches either having made the UCL final and won the league the year before.

Surprised you're the first to mention them.

he wasn't

 

[B20]

Can't look past peps Barcelona. The way they played was just unparalleled.

In all nerdily imagined match-ups between great sides in history, I reckon they win more often than they lose against any side I can think of, also after accounting for different eras, etc.

They probably should have won even more than they did, but they were outrageous.

 

[NasirTimothy]

Can't look past peps Barcelona. The way they played was just unparalleled.

In all nerdily imagined match-ups between great sides in history, I reckon they win more often than they lose against any side I can think of, also after accounting for different eras, etc.

They probably should have won even more than they did, but they were outrageous.

Very tough against Sacchi’s Milan, there was a lot of power and defensive strength in that team. Also depends on what set of rules you’re playing under, today’s version where you basically cannot touch anybody or the rather more robust 80s regulations

 

[Cal?]

Except that Pep’s Barca won more than Zidane’s Madrid and played better football.

All trophies are not equal to each other.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Bayern Munich 2012/13 or 19/20

You thought they were better than Pep's Barca?

 

[NasirTimothy]

All trophies are not equal to each other.

One league title is not enough to be considered the greatest club side of all time. Sorry.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Pep's Barcelona are the best club side to me. I think their 2011 version is the best since it had Messi at his physical peak + their midfield peaked that season too.

Their 5-0 domination of Real at the Nou Camp is pretty much the pinnacle of club football in terms of performance. They made Real look like an amateur pub team.

 

[Gehrman]

Pep's Barcelona are the best club side to me. I think their 2011 version is the best since it had Messi at his physical peak + their midfield peaked that season too.

Their 5-0 domination of Real at the Nou Camp is pretty much the pinnacle of club football in terms of performance. They made Real look like a amateur pub team.

Agree with this. In 2009 they were obviously strong since they won the treble, but in 2011 it felt like they had perfected the team and Messi had gone a up level since 2009 as well.

 

[Cal?]

One league title is not enough to be considered the greatest club side of all time. Sorry.

2 CLs are enough?

Most teams being discussed here have more than 2, at a time when the EC was much easier to win than the recent CL.

Zidane's Madrid are the only ones to have even retained the CL, and they won 3 in a row.

 

[PepG]

They are one of the greatest the 70’s side. 90’s though great don’t belong in this conversation.

How dare you?! 90s Ajax in my biased opinion is the best side i have ever seen. Perfect mixture between experienced and youth players who became world superstars shortly after. The way LVG made them play was extraordinary. Peps Barca and The Dutch Milan are the other two of course..

 

[NasirTimothy]

2 CLs are enough?

Most teams being discussed here have more than 2, at a time when the EC was much easier to win than the recent CL.

Zidane's Madrid are the only ones to have even retained the CL, and they won 3 in a row.

If you actually watched that team play football and thought ‘that’s the greatest team that I’ve ever seen’, then you must have not watched much football.

 

[Gehrman]

2 CLs are enough?

Most teams being discussed here have more than 2, at a time when the EC was much easier to win than the recent CL.

Zidane's Madrid are the only ones to have even retained the CL, and they won 3 in a row.

CL is harder to win once you're in it, but in the old format Real Madrid wouldn't have been able to compete for more than 1 european cup. Unless if winning granted qualification again which I don't know. I think 2 CL's and a semifinal is enough to be in conversation. For what it's worth I think Zidane's Real Madrid are in the conversation as well.

 

[NasirTimothy]

CL is harder to win once you're in it, but in the old format Real Madrid wouldn't have been able to compete for more than 1 european cup. Unless if winning granted qualification again which I don't know. I think 2 CL's and a semifinal is enough to be in conversation. For what it's worth I think Zidane's Real Madrid are in the conversation as well.

Under the old rules they would have only been able to compete for one of the three that they actually won.

 

[PepG]

2016-2017 version of Zidane's Madrid is truly in the conversation of one of the greatest sides ever. Such an amazing team, perfectly prepared physically, mentally and tactically to win it all. Zidane's rotation of the squad was superb. In the previous season the team was not yet ready and in the season after was already in decline.

 

[Gehrman]

2016-2017 version of Zidanes Madrid is truly in the conversation of one of the greatest sides ever. Such an amazing team, perfectly prepared physically, mentally and tactically to win it all. Zidanes rotation of the squad was superb. In the previous season the team was not yet ready and in the season after was already in decline.

Agree, this was their peak. Won the final in style as well.

 

[George the Cat]

That Milan side with Van Basten, Gullit and Rijkaard were just so good to watch!

 

[Cal?]

If you actually watched that team play football and thought ‘that’s the greatest team that I’ve ever seen’, then you must have not watched much football.

Covered that part in my very first post in this thread

Basically Pep Barca v Zidane Madrid, depends if you value style or winning respectively.

CL is harder to win once you're in it, but in the old format Real Madrid wouldn't have been able to compete for more than 1 european cup. Unless if winning granted qualification again which I don't know. I think 2 CL's and a semifinal is enough to be in conversation. For what it's worth I think Zidane's Real Madrid are in the conversation as well.

Winning does grant qualification in the EC days, that's why so many more repeat wins back in the day. That's how Forest only has 1 title win ever and 2 EC.

 

[NasirTimothy]

2016-2017 version of Zidane's Madrid is truly in the conversation of one of the greatest sides ever. Such an amazing team, perfectly prepared physically, mentally and tactically to win it all. Zidane's rotation of the squad was superb. In the previous season the team was not yet ready and in the season after was already in decline.

It was a great team with a great (and very canny) manager. Of that there’s no doubt. However, it’s not the greatest IMO

 

[Andycoleno9]

1) Ancelotti's Milan in 2000s.
Dida, Cafu, Costacurta, Nesta, Maldini- Pirlo, Seedorf, Gatusso, Kaka, Costa, Shevcenko.
2) Ancelotti's Milan. Best defence in history with Maldini, Baresi and Costacurta plus Dutch trio.
3) LVG's Ajax. Most dominant side
4) United 2008
5) Pep's Barca

 

[NasirTimothy]

Covered that part in my very first post in this thread

Ok, well how you play and stylistic impact actually matters In defining levels of greatness. Football is a spectator sport after all (a fact that has been cruelly demonstrated to us during this pandemic). That’s why Brazil’s 70 team are considered to be better than Germany’s 74 team.

 

[NasirTimothy]

1) Ancelotti's Milan in 2000s.
Dida, Cafu, Costacurta, Nesta, Maldini- Pirlo, Seedorf, Gatusso, Kaka, Costa, Shevcenko.
2) Ancelotti's Milan. Best defence in history with Maldini, Baresi and Costacurta plus Dutch trio.
3) LVG's Ajax. Most dominant side
4) United 2008
5) Pep's Barca

Ancelotti’s Milan are immediately disqualified from consideration for bottling the 2005 champions league final against a dodgy Liverpool team

 

[George the Cat]

Pep's Barca. Not just because they beat us but because almost no team managed to beat them by playing football. They were kind of boring though in the sense they would completely dominate possesion so most of the games lacked excitement.

I found it boring watching that Barca side too, so I stopped unless we were playing them of course. The Milan side I watched every opportunity I got.

 

[Jorsett]

2016-2017 version of Zidane's Madrid is truly in the conversation of one of the greatest sides ever. Such an amazing team, perfectly prepared physically, mentally and tactically to win it all. Zidane's rotation of the squad was superb. In the previous season the team was not yet ready and in the season after was already in decline.

Man, if the referee didn't give Vidal that red card everything could've gone so different. I think they've would've gotten past us regardless, but Casemiro truly has some black magic protecting him from getting booked (and sent off), kinda like Fernandinho at times.

 

[Rajiztar]

Ancelotti’s Milan are immediately disqualified from consideration for bottling the 2005 champions league final against a dodgy Liverpool team

Same can be said about barca too.But favourites can't win all games. That's the beauty of this sports. Yes 9/10 times they could win that match comfortably but not on that day. Credit to Liverpool they didn't accept it and came back strong.

Same for barca too. They played 60 minutes against 10 man chelsea yet not able to win the tie.Some times you just could not win for whatever reason.Luck or destiny or whatever you can call it.

 

[Oranges038]

CL is harder to win once you're in it, but in the old format Real Madrid wouldn't have been able to compete for more than 1 european cup. Unless if winning granted qualification again which I don't know. I think 2 CL's and a semifinal is enough to be in conversation. For what it's worth I think Zidane's Real Madrid are in the conversation as well.

Winning it did, they would have been eligible every year except the first because they didn't win La Liga.

It's why Forest have more European cups than league titles.

 

[giorno]

You thought they were better than Pep's Barca?

Yes, i would say so. 12/13 especially

 

[giorno]

Man, if the referee didn't give Vidal that red card everything could've gone so different. I think they've would've gotten past us regardless, but Casemiro truly has some black magic protecting him from getting booked (and sent off), kinda like Fernandinho at times.

I mean, Vidal should have been off 10 minutes into that game to be fair...

 

[Spoony]

Red Star deserves a mention surely? Some brilliant players... virtually the Yugoslavia national team in the late 80s.

 

[adexkola]

Yes, i would say so. 12/13 especially

You can't separate 12/13 from 11/12 or 13/14.

I mean, you can, but it's disingenuous. What other team in this thread makes it in based on the accomplishments of one season?

 

[NasirTimothy]

Winning it did, they would have been eligible every year except the first because they didn't win La Liga.

It's why Forest have more European cups than league titles.

Not correct, unless I’m missing something? Zidane’s sole title in that period (before his comeback), was in 2016-17, which would have made them eligible for entry into the 2017-18 CL (which is the last one they won). They would not have been able to enter the competition for 2015-16 and 2016-17 (the first two they won).

 

[Spoony]

Very tough against Sacchi’s Milan, there was a lot of power and defensive strength in that team. Also depends on what set of rules you’re playing under, today’s version where you basically cannot touch anybody or the rather more robust 80s regulations

Yes, was listening to Lineker talk about Maradona and that game at the Azteca, he said the pitch was basically made of small pieces of turf made into a full pitch and that it was impossible run on yet Maradona took the pitch out to the equation. The game has become perfect for goal scoring and attacking play, from the pitches to the rules...as great as Barca were I doubt they could've
been anywhere near as dominant a couple of decades ago. But the likes of AC Milan would have smashed every era.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Red Star deserves a mention surely? Some brilliant players... virtually the Yugoslavia national team in the late 80s.

Why? Because they won one CL as underdog? And yeah..not true bolded part

 

[Spoony]

Why? Because they won one CL as underdog? And yeah..not true bolded part

Because they were a very good team. Stoichovic, Pancev, Prosinecki, Mihajlovic, Savecivic and co they had some amazing players - 5 played for that fantastic yet underachieving Yugoslavia side. I watched them hammer United at OT yet lose(Super Cup).

 

[NasirTimothy]

Yes, was listening to Lineker talk about Maradona and that game at the Azteca, he said the pitch was basically made of small pieces of turf made into a full pitch and that it was impossible run on yet Maradona took the pitch out to the equation. The game has become perfect for goal scoring and attacking play, from the pitches to the rules...as great as Barca were I doubt they could've
been anywhere near as dominant a couple of decades ago. But the likes of AC Milan would have smashed every era.

Yes, that Barca team was essentially comprised of very small men. It’s not definite that they would have been able to cope with the use of ‘reducers’ and the times when you were allowed one savage foul ‘for free’ (cf Vinnie Jones on Steve McMahon in the FA Cup final, the ol’ ‘just letting him know you’re there’ challenge. The good old days ).

Also, as you say, being able to play in aerodynamic slippers on perfect carpets every week makes a difference.

 

[Spoony]

Yes, that Barca team was essentially comprised of very small men. It’s not definite that they would have been able to cope with the use of ‘reducers’ and the times when you were allowed one savage foul ‘for free’ (cf Vinnie Jones on Steve McMahon in the FA Cup final, the ol’ ‘just letting him know you’re there’ challenge. The good old days ).

Also, as you say, being able to play in aerodynamic slippers on perfect carpets every week makes a difference.

Suppose it's unfair to compare eras. You can only thrive in conditions that you're given and to be fair, Barca were out of this world.

 

[The Corinthian]

Of the more recent teams, I’d say Zidane’s Madrid, Pep’s Barca, our 08 team are the main 3.

 

[NasirTimothy]

Suppose it's unfair to compare eras. You can only thrive in conditions that you're given and to be fair, Barca were out of this world.

Yes, it’s the same problem when trying to determine the greatest player of all time, totally different circumstances across eras. You can choose who you think is the best but we also have to acknowledge the varying obstacles.

 

[Spoony]

Yes, it’s the same problem when trying to determine the greatest player of all time, totally different circumstances across eras. You can choose who you think is the best but we also have to acknowledge the varying obstacles.

Indeed. That said I can see Messi struggling in the past yet the inferior Cristiano succeed. But there you go...

 

[Gehrman]

Indeed. That said I can see Messi struggling in the past yet the inferior Cristiano succeed. But there you go...

Messi's low center of gravity would have been insane without hgh treatment. Perhaps he would have been even better.