Between our scouting and recruitment, how do we keep getting it so wrong?

Fortitude

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Not going to dig out any one player - with our litany of awful buys it's easier to classify by players who actually look the part - but collectively, why are we so bad at this side of the game? I don't think it's even a slight exaggeration to say we have the worst transfer record in football per bang for buck ratio and successful signings over the last 2, 5 or 10 year periods. Indeed, the last time a thread was made asking posters who had been outright successes here in the post-Fergie era, it came back with Bruno, Amad and not much else, or certainly not even a consensus on even a handful of other good buys in what was then 10 years, and things have gotten even worse since then.

One way to circumvent terrible scouting and recruitment is to simply purchase as many touted S and A tier talents as you can - a player like Yoro, for example, was classed as the best prospective CB talent in the game before we laid eyes on him (insofar as being actively linked); I believe the Arsenal kids we scooped up lately were also said to be destined for big things, which essentially means others had done the groundwork and there's not much of anything for our lot to screw up, as they are so apt at doing when asked to unearth talent or find legitimate diamonds in the rough.

The lack of technical ability in the players we've gone about paying over the odds for is only outdone by the ill-fitting nature of the vast number in terms of physical suitability and/or fitness to the league and our cause. I don't get how so many other clubs - so-called minnows or lesser ones - are able to bring in talent from as far flung as South America and have them not only come in as bargains but be worth north of £60m within a season or two on a regular basis yet we've not managed to make a star out of a single "no name" since, perhaps, Chicarito? Is that correct? We've gone from a club who scouted the likes of Nemanja Vidic playing football in Russia; Ole Gunnar Solskjaer being plucked from relative obscurity in Norway; de Gea going on to be a world class keeper; Rafael being brought in from Fluminese (when we were able to make amazing finds on the other side of the planet); Nani from Sporting, to not being able to pick a talent of our own accord. The list goes on and on and I've made sure to parse players who were already considered special talents before they got here like: Park, who was tearing it up in Holland and the CL, or Cantona, who was always known as a mercurial nightmare before even setting foot in England and so on and so forth.

We also used to be superb in both the domestic and big buy markets. In fact, I think it's fair to say we were only middling in the market you're supposed to be middling in, which is the literal speculative punt market, where you know beforehand that these players might've been lucky to even make the squad, let alone go on to become first team regulars. Our general quality in recruitment now is worse than our level of success in the speculative punt market of those times, it's fair to say. But how has this happened? It'd be understandable if players coming in were very good to outstanding as individuals who were just a bad fit with us, but it seems to be deeper than that as we are more likely to buy objectively bad players in their peer group, than good ones who other clubs would immediately take off our hands if offered for what we paid for them.

Honestly, this department has been one of the most surreal to follow since 2013 when the great man left. We've gone from one of the best on the planet at sniffing out talent to not seeing/recruiting it unless already propped up by another clubs' ability to hone. At unders level, we're still actually very good at recruitment and the academy pushing through talent seems a more likely route to us having special talent in the first team than our ability and skill in the big boy market to outright buy in brilliance.

Is it unfair to state we're close to being able to field a 'were never good enough from the outset' xi? Meaning players who came in below the bar and have not outdone there "X" rate. As our purse strings tighten, it feels as though our recruitment has to suddenly take a leap back to something like it used to be for us to have a prayer of zipping up the table to the CL places let alone challenging for the title. Is it beyond those who are currently in those departments to achieve this? The S tier route isn't really an option for us; that is the blueprint for Madrid of the current age. A tier is an expensive and mostly unpredictable ride; it seems to be the domain of the likes of Chelsea and PSG now, but what I'm really set on is our ability to operate in the B and C tier markets where the likes of Liverpool, Newcastle, Bayern and so forth tend to thrive and turn lesser regarded or sought after players into coveted ones. Why can't we do that? Or can we? Is our recruitment likely to turn around any time soon, in your opinion? Do you feel like things are looking like they're about to pick up? :confused:
 
Having people like Ed Woodward sign players for social media (which is sadly important) upticks rather than squad development never helps.

I've noticed we have signed some promising young players and have stopped signing stupid names, but we need to get rid of some dross. Luckily, this seems to now be happening, even if it does feel belated.
 
I think a lot of the time, they just don't do their research thoroughly enough.

I seem to recall Sancho having attitude problems at City and missed training following the pre-season tour. Huge red flags right from the get go.

So what do we do? Act as if that never happened and put him on a 5 year contract on huge wages, then act surprised when it starts turning sour, and now we're all desperately hoping Chelsea decide to make his loan permanent.

Fergie used to talk about researching player's character. I'm absolutely certain he wouldn't have allowed someone like Sancho anywhere near the club, nor would he have paid 89 million to bring Pogba back. Fergie let him go for a reason.
 
Its simple we buy old and give big contracts. Schweinsteiger, Sanchez, cr7,Casemiro etc

Then appropriate aged players who have obvious flaws. Telles, what are you doing with a slow fullback in the prem, Bissaka's technique was questioned at length before his signing, Dorgu isnt looking like much of an upgrade technique wise from Bissaka. Ugarte looks like he needs someone who will do all the ball progression for him as a partner. Its clear why our attacking play is much better with Casemiro in the 11.
 
We have a new structure now and we have to see over time whether they can turn it around, with a lot less money. So far we have been shopping at b and c tier with a few kids coming in that can go both ways. Mazrouia and De Ligt have been minor hits, Ugarte and Zirkzee are still maybes. Yoro and Heaven have been big plusses. The other kids haven’t been given a decent or no chance yet.
We will know more in the summer if the new structure can find the right players that fit, but it’s no use comparing to Fergie time or between Fergie and Ineos as there was a lot more money then. We are also in a position where we could be out of European football, which also hampers a lot of deals.
 
I don't think scouting is even the issue. We seem to have been on to most of the best players when they were young.

It's the recruitment which is the big problem. When we got Bellingham in the doors of Carrington for example, we should have got that over the line. Haaland once scouted was an obvious signing to make too. We kept going all out for shite, then when we have a one-time chance to go all out for Harry Kane, we don't.

Very poor.
 
I don't think scouting is even the issue. We seem to have been on to most of the best players when they were young.

It's the recruitment which is the big problem. When we got Bellingham in the doors of Carrington for example, we should have got that over the line. Haaland once scouted was an obvious signing to make too. We kept going all out for shite, then when we have a one-time chance to go all out for Harry Kane, we don't.

Very poor.
Completely agree, we seem to have an eye on quality young players but don’t do enough to get them.
 
I'm hoping this is more a case of why was it so bad, rather than why is it, but we'll have to see on that score. I think it just comes down to two things:

1 - lack of a unified strategy as to the type of players we should be looking for, which itself came from a lack of vision as to how we should play. It's the old dof argument, where we should have been immune from manager changes but instead we just caved to give them what they felt they needed each time (within limits) because the management above them were clueless / spineless in regards to standing up to it.

2 - Priorities. We were being run as a marketing business, not a sporting one. We had to get a marquee high profile signing to keep the clicks coming in, keep the sponsors happy. Spending money on that rather than smarter squad fills was the priority at times, which left us short in more important positions. The reason our midfield is so weak is because there is more social media engagement in signing exciting attackers than water carriers.

Hopefully these are issues that Ineos coming in will, to a degree at least, have resolved. It doesn't necessarily mean that the right signings will be made, but hopefully at least the strategy, aims and intention will be correct. That automatically increases the chances of success.
 
One of the main reasons is because we're such a huge club with lots of potential financial resources due to how much money we do make and even more if we build a successful team. And I think our management team struggles with that when it comes to trying to attract the player they want. We can't offer a decent champions league team/run, or a title shot... What we can offer that the other clubs who want the player might not be able to is more money. So we offer them more money hoping for the best and thats rarely been the outcome for us. We end up with players on so much money they have to be putting in 9/10 performances every week and none of our players do that except maybe Bruno.

I think we also struggle with chasing bad money rather than doing the sensible, realistic and pragmatic thing. For me the sensible and realistic thing to do right now is say look where we are in the league and look at the wages. Say 150k per week is the limit for everyone except the captain Bruno. Everyone on more than that sell them for whatever we can get for them. And slowly reward players based on seasons of good performances up to that 150k mark

Instead what I think we'll do is say this season is a write off in the league. A fresh start next season with the manager who joined part way through and hope that a better start to the season sees us up towards the top 6 instead, probably with a couple more signings on 150k or more wages and if the results arent much better we'll end up in exactly the same situation, possibly with more bloated wages if we havent sold Rashford and Sancho by then
 
The recruitment is beyond crazy how poor it’s been. However, last Summer may have been our best window in a long time. De Ligt, Yoro, Zirkzee were all players of the right age profile who are 3-7 years off their prime. The difference is they haven’t made a massive impact right away, which is what we’ve always been seeking in our desperation to be good again.

All our transfers 2013-2024 (Glazers) were looking for a quick bounce back into the top 4, with no thought about how they could fit into a wider build that gets us back to the top. The more successful transfers; Zlatan, Cavani, Casemiro all helped us get top 4 but soon became deadwood as they were signed way past their best. That’s why it’s been so bad, genuinely signing players on vibes or to sell shirts without any long term footballing thoughts whatsoever. We’re still reeling from the Woodward Disneyland days. Glazers only care about top 4 money and that’s a fact.

The recruitment strategy has clearly changed. The issue is we now need the scouting to back it up - to actually be able to identity talent who can fit into the manager’s system. It will clearly take some time just to set up the right recruitment team. In the meantime we may continue to waste money, but hopefully not on the scale as previously. The 2023 transfer window takes the absolute biscuit.
 
Fergie used to talk about researching player's character. I'm absolutely certain he wouldn't have allowed someone like Sancho anywhere near the club, nor would he have paid 89 million to bring Pogba back. Fergie let him go for a reason.

So many years and something that has been debunked many times over still gets pushed to kick the club’s back in. Ferguson didn’t let Pogba go - in fact he was desperate to keep him and sent senior squad members to his house to convince him to stay. Both Ferdinand and Evra have testified to to this.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37384530/alex-ferguson-was-desperate-keep-paul-pogba-utd
 
Assume that our scout wants to find out everything about player A. Including about his character.

Is it possible for the scout to watch him train every single day? Is it possible for the scout to travel with the player and talk to him every single day? Is it possible for the scout to listen to everything that the manager asks from the player and then watch how he follows these orders?

No, it is not possible. You can't have the scout follow one single player that close. Only his manager can do all the above.

Well, we had ETH who knew Antony and Onana for years and he was their manager. Do you ask ETH about them or do you ask the scout who watched them just a few times? Who knows these players better? And do you trust the manager about his own players or do you trust the scout?

That's how we got here.
 
I don't think scouting is even the issue. We seem to have been on to most of the best players when they were young.

It's the recruitment which is the big problem. When we got Bellingham in the doors of Carrington for example, we should have got that over the line. Haaland once scouted was an obvious signing to make too. We kept going all out for shite, then when we have a one-time chance to go all out for Harry Kane, we don't.

Very poor.

I think those are 2 examples of players that many teams were aware of though. So hardly an example of great scouting
 
I would not say it is the scouting, but rather the fact we give power to the manager. There is minimal information we can know about who is scouted as we don't receive the reports but we are often linked to players that end up being good and also sign quite a lot of young players.

We were strongly in the race for players like Caicedo and Enzo before they came to Europe or even players like Kerkez who have come to the PL and done a good job, none of whom were talked about as the next Rooney type of talents. However, it has consistenly been the fact that we have given the manager so much power which has screwed us over. We have even had managers veto Kroos and Thiago to go and sign far lesser players and we even had managers bring their own scouts and listen to them ahead of club scouts. If we had listened to our scouts more, we would have a much better squad and would have avoided disasters like Maguire and Antony - both of whom scouts were reported to have valued as "not better than what we have" and "not worth more than 25m".

I think scouts get an unfair bad rep, they are not decision makers and can only point out a number of options which is then up to others to decide on. We do not receive the scout reports so have no idea who they recommend or what they say about those players. The key thing we need to do now is have directors who do not simply chase whatever a manager wants and, instead, listen to the scouts on what they think as that is their literal job to evaluate and watch talent. Managers have such a limited pool they can seriously analyse and it is good to have someone like Wilcox, who is apparently well tapped into the world of unders football, so hopefully we see that start to bear more fruit. Luckily we didn't listen to the manager for once when we signed Amad!
 
The "entente" between the manager and whomever has had a say at club level has also been an issue.
The Antony deal, the Sanchez and Maguire ones stick out to me. We know that the manager has a veto and so does the club, how that was not exercised given the figures involved in those deals is baffling.
To compound that there also seem to be "crowd pleasing" signings like Ronaldo and Sancho.
All together the club has shown itself to be weak: no clear vision of what is required long term, hence no principles applied to our recruitment strategy.
 
I would not say it is the scouting, but rather the fact we give power to the manager. There is minimal information we can know about who is scouted as we don't receive the reports but we are often linked to players that end up being good and also sign quite a lot of young players.

We were strongly in the race for players like Caicedo and Enzo before they came to Europe or even players like Kerkez who have come to the PL and done a good job, none of whom were talked about as the next Rooney type of talents. However, it has consistenly been the fact that we have given the manager so much power which has screwed us over. We have even had managers veto Kroos and Thiago to go and sign far lesser players and we even had managers bring their own scouts and listen to them ahead of club scouts. If we had listened to our scouts more, we would have a much better squad and would have avoided disasters like Maguire and Antony - both of whom scouts were reported to have valued as "not better than what we have" and "not worth more than 25m".

I think scouts get an unfair bad rep, they are not decision makers and can only point out a number of options which is then up to others to decide on. We do not receive the scout reports so have no idea who they recommend or what they say about those players. The key thing we need to do now is have directors who do not simply chase whatever a manager wants and, instead, listen to the scouts on what they think as that is their literal job to evaluate and watch talent. Managers have such a limited pool they can seriously analyse and it is good to have someone like Wilcox, who is apparently well tapped into the world of unders football, so hopefully we see that start to bear more fruit. Luckily we didn't listen to the manager for once when we signed Amad!
This is bang on. The Managers screwed us. ETH being the worst. He literally managed these players like Antony and Onana and still thought they were worth 80 mill and 50 mill. The second reason is because of our philosophy. Its either sign star players for clicks or now its buy youngsters. Both these are bad strategies. Ralf Rangnick literally told us who we should target and we sacked him for it
 
I don’t think it’s any one thing, I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s a deeper issue than just scouts and coaches, that the fabric and foundations of the club are all wrong and that culture across the club driven by the operating model makes it difficult for any player to perform.

Some of the signings we’ve made over the past few years should have been far better. I know the OP specifically didn’t name players but for me, Pogba, Alexis and Sancho all came in with a huge wave of excitement and the feeling was that all 3 should contribute but each fell on their face and were disasterous signings.

When we signed Schmidfield, I felt they would be great additions but never got going. Maguire, Fred AWB, all performed well for their clubs at the time but it just didn’t work for us.

So back to where I started, it’s something much more deep rooted in my view, we’re going through a lot of pain at the moment but hopefully it’s a start to resetting and rebuilding the foundations of the club.
 
The scouts are fine. Ignoring them over and over again to sign whomever the manager wants is the real problem.
 
The scouting and recruitment isn't necessarily bad. The people in those departments are doing their jobs. The issue is we're clueless with how to use these players once they get here.

Mata, Di Maria, Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez could have all been world class players for us but we never got the best out of any of them.

Then there's the likes of Blind and Herrera who could have been great squad players in any great United side but again, you never felt they were playing at their best.

Then there's the other type of player. Wan Bissaka, Maguire etc who were good Premier League players but we put an insane amount of pressure on them with ridiculous transfer fees.

The same could even be said for players like Antony and Hojlund who were clearly considered good (with better potential) at one point but rather than be sensible with fees and take a punt, we spend the best part of £150 million on them. Rather than easing them into the squad, Ten Hag basically has to put them in from day 1 because of those fees and very quicky they're considered a waste of money.
 
I think those are 2 examples of players that many teams were aware of though. So hardly an example of great scouting
I recall United being attributed to them before anyone else. And Haaland was with the helping hand of Solskjaer but it still seems United could have got that done before wider interest built.

Caicedo another. We keep seeing stories in the Athletic about how we could have got these now top players for cheap.

I don’t think it’s “great” scouting. But I think we’re aware of players early. And IDing players is not the issue. The issue is that we don’t ever seem to pull the trigger on the correct players
 
The scouting and recruitment isn't necessarily bad. The people in those departments are doing their jobs. The issue is we're clueless with how to use these players once they get here.

Mata, Di Maria, Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez could have all been world class players for us but we never got the best out of any of them.
This is the point that the issue is from the top down. The scouts and manager should all be on the same page about what we are building. The players you’ve listed are just players who had reputations so we just paid over the odds for them without knowing what the long term plan was. We need scouts who find talent that can fit what we’re trying to do.
 
The scouting and recruitment isn't necessarily bad. The people in those departments are doing their jobs. The issue is we're clueless with how to use these players once they get here.

Mata, Di Maria, Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez could have all been world class players for us but we never got the best out of any of them.

Then there's the likes of Blind and Herrera who could have been great squad players in any great United side but again, you never felt they were playing at their best.

Then there's the other type of player. Wan Bissaka, Maguire etc who were good Premier League players but we put an insane amount of pressure on them with ridiculous transfer fees.

The same could even be said for players like Antony and Hojlund who were clearly considered good (with better potential) at one point but rather than be sensible with fees and take a punt, we spend the best part of £150 million on them. Rather than easing them into the squad, Ten Hag basically has to put them in from day 1 because of those fees and very quicky they're considered a waste of money.

With respect, this sounds like another excuse for under-performing players.

'We never got the best out of them' because they didn't want to give their best.

They joined United thinking it was a free lunch and disrespected the club when they had to pay.

Even Matic last week was banging on about the 'commercial' side of things, as though that automatically makes you a lesser player.
 
Completely agree, we seem to have an eye on quality young players but don’t do enough to get them.
I read that united has (or did have) one of the biggest scouting departments in the world. I suspect that they were ignored or mismanaged by those above them which led to us making extremely poor recruitment decisions.
 
The Glazers..
they bought the idea of Manchester United, and turned it into a cash cow that pretends to be everything it stood for, they don’t care about having the best players in every position possible, they just want profit
 
So many years and something that has been debunked many times over still gets pushed to kick the club’s back in. Ferguson didn’t let Pogba go - in fact he was desperate to keep him and sent senior squad members to his house to convince him to stay. Both Ferdinand and Evra have testified to to this.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37384530/alex-ferguson-was-desperate-keep-paul-pogba-utd
Ok fair enough, point taken. But I still stand by my point that Ferguson wouldn't have bought Sancho. Obviously we'll never know for certain, however.
 
So many issues, but I don’t think it’s an actual problem of talent ID. We’ve seen plenty of young talented players spotted when relying on scouts, the youth team is flourishing again.

The problem is the senior team. There’s been no real strategy on how the team is going to play and what kind of players we need for that. All good teams have this in place and it’s fairly easy to see why they sign players in certain positions. We seem to just have a list of options in that position and let the manager sign who see fit, regardless of price.

The managers have generally had quite short term thinking, which has then left us with issues when the next manager comes in. And overpaying has also led to issues moving players on. You can honestly create a massive list of problems with our recruitment, but I don’t think it’s actually the scouts.
 
I recall United being attributed to them before anyone else. And Haaland was with the helping hand of Solskjaer but it still seems United could have got that done before wider interest built.

Caicedo another. We keep seeing stories in the Athletic about how we could have got these now top players for cheap.

I don’t think it’s “great” scouting. But I think we’re aware of players early. And IDing players is not the issue. The issue is that we don’t ever seem to pull the trigger on the correct players

So Bellingham was playing for Milwall in the championship at 16. I was aware of him, many posters were and so were many clubs. We were linked with him yeah but if we knew about him loads of clubs would be too. And thats why a German club was aware of him

Haaland was a top scorer in his country. There were obvious doubts based on the difference in quality between that league and the ones he might move to, but loads of teams would have known about him and just didnt push as hard as Dortmund to sign him. We were extra linked because Ole gave him his debut before taking the Utd job. However it seems like we decided to keep an old Cavani over guaranteeing Haaland would play and that was a major reason he went to Dortmund.

I think also part of being the "correct" player is making sure the fees and wages are reasonable. There are plenty of players that if we had signed them for half as much money and they were on half as much wages they would have been seen as a success. The problem is we're quick to pay a lot in fees and wages and very few of our signings live up to it.
 
I think a lot of the time, they just don't do their research thoroughly enough.

I seem to recall Sancho having attitude problems at City and missed training following the pre-season tour. Huge red flags right from the get go.

So what do we do? Act as if that never happened and put him on a 5 year contract on huge wages, then act surprised when it starts turning sour, and now we're all desperately hoping Chelsea decide to make his loan permanent.

Fergie used to talk about researching player's character. I'm absolutely certain he wouldn't have allowed someone like Sancho anywhere near the club, nor would he have paid 89 million to bring Pogba back. Fergie let him go for a reason.

Isn’t that just a myth. The club tried to extend Pogba’s contract but because the club and Ferguson chose to play Giggs and even brought Scholes out of retirement than give him a chance when we had barely any midfielders he actively chose to leave.
 
Our problem in the last 10 years has been allowing managers carte blanche on player signings, and then when they get sacked, the new manager wants his own players. We need to move away from that, and delve into the data analysis market like the other top clubs. Take recruitment out of the hands of the manager completely other than saying "what position do you want?". This would then lead to the data team picking 2 or 3 players based upon their data analysis, which the manager then gets to pick from.

Build a team around a system rather than building a system around a team. Then when you feck one manager off, you can bring in another with a similar style of play.

I mean it's hardly rocket science when you think about it. I can't believe a club the size of United isn't leading this type of thing across the sport instead of lagging 10 years behind. It's like we're still playing CM01/02 (which was great in it's time, arguably the best ever) but everyone else is now playing FM24 and they have access to a much larger data set to make decisions.
 
With respect, this sounds like another excuse for under-performing players.

'We never got the best out of them' because they didn't want to give their best.

They joined United thinking it was a free lunch and disrespected the club when they had to pay.

Even Matic last week was banging on about the 'commercial' side of things, as though that automatically makes you a lesser player.
Oh yeah. That's also kind of my point really.

My issue, why do they act like this at United? These players have, in some cases, performed well at Chelsea, Arsenal, Barcelona, Real Madrid etc. You might be correct in your assumption but I've also thought there's some other weird issue behind the scenes. It's a place where career and aspiration go to die.

You could tell someone like Mata always gave 100% but again, he never hit the heights.

I'm not having that the reason why 99% (back of a fag packet calculation there) of our big money signings fail is because they don't care or are just there for the money.
 
Need to separate pre Ineos and Ineos.

Ineos haven’t been that bad in my mind. De Ligt is probably our best CB, Yoro looks like he’ll be class, Maz is a steal at the price he was (though he is an RB and so is always out of position). Zirkzee is an enigma but there are signs he’s a very useful tactical option if we ever become more of a possession based team + is young, wasn’t that expensive. Dorgu I think will be good long term. Heaven looks great. Ugarte I really like, I think some don’t but that’s not a bad track record.

Pre Ineos, shit show.
 
A big issue we have is hanging on to substandard players too long, because either we can’t afford to replace them, or their wages make them impossible to move on.

I get that you have to give players a chance to improve, but they don’t when they’re at Man Utd. Why are Lindelof, Shaw, Maguire (recent performances have been okay), Antony, Dalot, Rashford still under contract at the club? We know enough about them to say they’re not good enough, but we haven’t moved them on.

We’ve done this for years though, Wan Bissaka, Jones, Martial, Bailly, Fred, all stayed for years after their usefulness had been realised.

Top teams make an error in the market and quickly move on from it. We hang on to mistakes for dear life.
 
Alot of United's problems can be attributed to politics. Its Woodward wanting too much power thus hiring yes men like Murtough to act as placeholders. The same seem happening right now with SJR and Berrada messing into football matters which in turn lead to Ashworth being made redundant and Berrada's yes man Wilcox being promoted to sporting director despite having just 1 year experience in the role at mighty Southampton
 
Because we are going the opposite way the rest of the successful clubs are going, and instead of admitting our mistake and making amends, we put our smug face on and call it the United way.

Because we don't sign players to improve the team, but to "get the best" out of existing players (or remedy their weaknesses) without ever stopping to think, even for a minute, if we have bet on the "wrong" horses initially.

Because we treat potential as a self-fulfilling prophecy and don't realize that an equal measure of experience, young talent and peak ability is what constitutes a "healthy" squad.
 
Not going to dig out any one player - with our litany of awful buys it's easier to classify by players who actually look the part - but collectively, why are we so bad at this side of the game? I don't think it's even a slight exaggeration to say we have the worst transfer record in football per bang for buck ratio and successful signings over the last 2, 5 or 10 year periods. Indeed, the last time a thread was made asking posters who had been outright successes here in the post-Fergie era, it came back with Bruno, Amad and not much else, or certainly not even a consensus on even a handful of other good buys in what was then 10 years, and things have gotten even worse since then.

One way to circumvent terrible scouting and recruitment is to simply purchase as many touted S and A tier talents as you can - a player like Yoro, for example, was classed as the best prospective CB talent in the game before we laid eyes on him (insofar as being actively linked); I believe the Arsenal kids we scooped up lately were also said to be destined for big things, which essentially means others had done the groundwork and there's not much of anything for our lot to screw up, as they are so apt at doing when asked to unearth talent or find legitimate diamonds in the rough.

The lack of technical ability in the players we've gone about paying over the odds for is only outdone by the ill-fitting nature of the vast number in terms of physical suitability and/or fitness to the league and our cause. I don't get how so many other clubs - so-called minnows or lesser ones - are able to bring in talent from as far flung as South America and have them not only come in as bargains but be worth north of £60m within a season or two on a regular basis yet we've not managed to make a star out of a single "no name" since, perhaps, Chicarito? Is that correct? We've gone from a club who scouted the likes of Nemanja Vidic playing football in Russia; Ole Gunnar Solskjaer being plucked from relative obscurity in Norway; de Gea going on to be a world class keeper; Rafael being brought in from Fluminese (when we were able to make amazing finds on the other side of the planet); Nani from Sporting, to not being able to pick a talent of our own accord. The list goes on and on and I've made sure to parse players who were already considered special talents before they got here like: Park, who was tearing it up in Holland and the CL, or Cantona, who was always known as a mercurial nightmare before even setting foot in England and so on and so forth.

We also used to be superb in both the domestic and big buy markets. In fact, I think it's fair to say we were only middling in the market you're supposed to be middling in, which is the literal speculative punt market, where you know beforehand that these players might've been lucky to even make the squad, let alone go on to become first team regulars. Our general quality in recruitment now is worse than our level of success in the speculative punt market of those times, it's fair to say. But how has this happened? It'd be understandable if players coming in were very good to outstanding as individuals who were just a bad fit with us, but it seems to be deeper than that as we are more likely to buy objectively bad players in their peer group, than good ones who other clubs would immediately take off our hands if offered for what we paid for them.

Honestly, this department has been one of the most surreal to follow since 2013 when the great man left. We've gone from one of the best on the planet at sniffing out talent to not seeing/recruiting it unless already propped up by another clubs' ability to hone. At unders level, we're still actually very good at recruitment and the academy pushing through talent seems a more likely route to us having special talent in the first team than our ability and skill in the big boy market to outright buy in brilliance.

Is it unfair to state we're close to being able to field a 'were never good enough from the outset' xi? Meaning players who came in below the bar and have not outdone there "X" rate. As our purse strings tighten, it feels as though our recruitment has to suddenly take a leap back to something like it used to be for us to have a prayer of zipping up the table to the CL places let alone challenging for the title. Is it beyond those who are currently in those departments to achieve this? The S tier route isn't really an option for us; that is the blueprint for Madrid of the current age. A tier is an expensive and mostly unpredictable ride; it seems to be the domain of the likes of Chelsea and PSG now, but what I'm really set on is our ability to operate in the B and C tier markets where the likes of Liverpool, Newcastle, Bayern and so forth tend to thrive and turn lesser regarded or sought after players into coveted ones. Why can't we do that? Or can we? Is our recruitment likely to turn around any time soon, in your opinion? Do you feel like things are looking like they're about to pick up? :confused:
Look at Fortitude, showing off that he doesn’t work Mondays by writing a massive long essay
 
Because we are going the opposite way the rest of the successful clubs are going, and instead of admitting our mistake and making amends, we put our smug face on and call it the United way.

Because we don't sign players to improve the team, but to "get the best" out of existing players (or remedy their weaknesses) without ever stopping to think, even for a minute, if we have bet on the "wrong" horses initially.

Because we treat potential as a self-fulfilling prophecy and don't realize that an equal measure of experience, young talent and peak ability is what constitutes a "healthy" squad.
This is interesting. How many of the traditional "big" clubs are being run well?

Bayern probably sleepwalked to their last few titles. They'll probably win Bundesliga this season but I'm not convinced we should be looking to copy them yet.

Barca are still a mess off the pitch but have found a way to be successful on the pitch. Perhaps that would be the model in the short term.

city have been well run but they have had: a)the financial backing of a nation state and b)one of the greatest managers of the modern era. Let's see how they rebuild. With all the uncertainty around the 115 charges, who knows what happens next with them.

Real Madrid have seemingly done things well on and off the pitch but their plans/strategy would be hard to replicate outside of Spain.

The model we need to probably look at is over at Anfield. It will be interesting to see how well Slot does when their inevitable bigger rebuild starts and the big personalities in that dressing room start leaving.

The Italian clubs always seem to be a few game from a crisis and the ultras threatening their players.
 
Rotten culture. A relic of a football club coasting on the past, not really concerned with competitive success. No standards, no expectations, no pride. Just money. Everything trickles down from that. Players just fine with collecting paychecks and chilling. Even if they weren't like that before, they become that after a while.
 
In recent years - our club has actually made many smart recruiting goals. Our focus on youth has been repaid ten times over and the signings this year make sense and mainly have retained or increased in value.

A LOT of our “nightmare” signings have come in two positions. Striker (Holjund) and keeper (Onana).

Since Mourinho - I’d back our signings to be the equivalent of most major clubs if I’m being genuinely honest.