Big scorelines in women's football: a problem?

Ajr

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Yeah it is a problem and makes a mockery for the game. Someone like @GoranIvanisevic needs to be brought in, possibly as a consultant, in order to develop ways of making it an even playing field.
I think you are correct, I have some really good ideas that could help out here starting with a smaller goal and smaller ball, but also going further we could change the goal posts to a different shape and do away with corner flags
 

VivaRonaldo85

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It doesn’t help the brand they are trying to promote. Embarrassing and makes me even less interested than I was before.
 

Bole Top

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No, I'm not suggesting that, when I think 20 years ago, I still think it would be the 1980's. So when I said 30 years ago, what I really meant was around the 1970's.
are you joking or what? I don't think you fully realize the difference in athleticism between them.

look, sisters Williams once challenged a complete nobody because they also thought the gap between them and men wasn't as big. he schooled both of them, letting them take a point each. and we're taking about physically the strongest female players ever. Serena herself said she couldnt believe how easy it was for him to return her strongest shots. Margaret Court got swept the same way - by 55 year old. and she's one of the goats in womens game. McEnroe once said that best female player wouldn't even be in top 700 if she competed against men, and he is likely to be right there. well, your top 5 female football player would fare even worse.

so no, todays women teams most certainly wouldn't be beating teams from the 70's. maybe San Marino 1970.
 

crossy1686

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Are you really seriously suggesting that Newcastle Jets U-16 are better than Brazil of 70s? Come on people.

Unless you are suggesting the beating if they actually met today, with the Brazilians barely able to walk. In which case I agree :D
Why are you jumping straight to Brazil? Using extremes isn’t a useful debate tactic
 

McGrathsipan

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Any match that finishes 20-0 is a sign of a serious problem. You only have to look at the result. England have scored 53 goals in 6 games. That's mental.
 

Chesterlestreet

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The women's game is developing - so let it develop.

Most of the suggestions people keep making in order to improve the women's game (like smaller balls and goals) aren't wanted by the majority of players and coaches.

The physical disadvantage (compared to the men's game) isn't an issue if you stop comparing the women's game with the men's all the time. The quality of the best women's teams has clearly improved dramatically over the last few decades - eventually the quality of minnows will improve too, to the point where ridiculous cricket scores won't be as common (remember - they do occur from time to time in the men's game as well).
 

Dave Smith

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The women's game is developing - so let it develop.

Most of the suggestions people keep making in order to improve the women's game (like smaller balls and goals) aren't wanted by the majority of players and coaches.

The physical disadvantage (compared to the men's game) isn't an issue if you stop comparing the women's game with the men's all the time. The quality of the best women's teams has clearly improved dramatically over the last few decades - eventually the quality of minnows will improve too, to the point where ridiculous cricket scores won't be as common (remember - they do occur from time to time in the men's game as well).
I agree to the extent that they shouldn't be compared. However, part of the problem is the media reporting over women's football where they try and make comparisons between the men's game.

To be honest, I don't really see what the issue is with smaller goals (I get this would require slightly different facilities but it isn't that big of an issue) as in other sports the games have slight variations on them in order to make them slightly more comparable due to the physical differences. Women's football has a problem with goalkeeping/goals scored as whilst the outfield play in a womens game can be good, you still have the problem of having easily conceded goals which turns people off as football is a low scoring sport in its essence.
 

RoyH1

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As long as they stop celebrating after goal nr.5 then it's ok. It's when they pile up the score and keep on celebrating that it becomes a problem.
 

Chesterlestreet

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To be honest, I don't really see what the issue is with smaller goals (I get this would require slightly different facilities but it isn't that big of an issue) as in other sports the games have slight variations on them in order to make them slightly more comparable due to the physical differences. Women's football has a problem with goalkeeping/goals scored as whilst the outfield play in a womens game can be good, you still have the problem of having easily conceded goals which turns people off as football is a low scoring sport in its essence.
I don't really see it either (apart from the purely logistic argument) - but the fact is that the players themselves don't want it. Which you just have to respect for the time being.

I've said this before, but as the sport grows, the talent pool will - obviously - become larger. Which will mean that some of the taller girls who per now opt for other sports will opt for football - and end up as keepers. It won't change overnight, of course - but unless women's football for some reason will stop developing in terms of global recognition and whatnot, it will change over time.
 

Dave Smith

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I don't really see it either (apart from the purely logistic argument) - but the fact is that the players themselves don't want it. Which you just have to respect for the time being.

I've said this before, but as the sport grows, the talent pool will - obviously - become larger. Which will mean that some of the taller girls who per now opt for other sports will opt for football - and end up as keepers. It won't change overnight, of course - but unless women's football for some reason will stop developing in terms of global recognition and whatnot, it will change over time.
I do respect that the people involved in womens football should decide, however I do feel like there should be more of an open debate around it. Emma Hayes for instance made a good point about this but quickly got shot down:

https://www.sportbible.com/football...omens-football-to-have-smaller-goals-20190522

For me part of the problem is that the resistance is based on political beliefs rather than one that looks at what is actually best for the womens game. However, that is just my 2p's worth.
 

Cheimoon

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Women's football has a problem with goalkeeping/goals scored as whilst the outfield play in a womens game can be good, you still have the problem of having easily conceded goals which turns people off as football is a low scoring sport in its essence.
You don't really see that in evenly matched top teams though, do you? Like at the World Cup or Euros. The problem is just that with leagues, the Olympics, and qualifiers, you get a wider range of quality, and the dfference between top and bottom is still ridiculous right now.

Although you have the difference in quality in international qualifiers for the WC and Euros in the men's game too. As I said before, I think another issue is that defensive organization isn't as much a focus in women's football yet, so you still get these insane scores - but was the difference between England and Latvia really that much bigger than between England and San Marino (or replace San Marino with any tiny country) in the recent men's game?
 

Chesterlestreet

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As I said before, I think another issue is that defensive organization isn't as much a focus in women's football yet, so you still get these insane scores - but was the difference between England and Latvia really that much bigger than between England and San Marino (or replace San Marino with any tiny country) in the recent men's game?
Hard to say - but one thing to note is that San Marino (men) is literally the worst team in the world.

Latvia (women) is currently 102/168 in the FIFA ranking.

San Marino (men): 210/210.
 

padr81

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You don't really see that in evenly matched top teams though, do you? Like at the World Cup or Euros. The problem is just that with leagues, the Olympics, and qualifiers, you get a wider range of quality, and the dfference between top and bottom is still ridiculous right now.

Although you have the difference in quality in international qualifiers for the WC and Euros in the men's game too. As I said before, I think another issue is that defensive organization isn't as much a focus in women's football yet, so you still get these insane scores - but was the difference between England and Latvia really that much bigger than between England and San Marino (or replace San Marino with any tiny country) in the recent men's game?
It was far greater and not just the scoreline.

England men 22 shots with 13 on target, San Marino even had a couple of shots and one on target. Clinical finishing and a good day for England in a one sided game but nothing to the level of the womens game.
England women 63 shots with 31 on target, Latvia didn't touch the ball within 30 yards of the goal.

One was a one sided game of football that wasn't really competitive the other was an absolute annihilation that could have finished 45-0 (not an exaggeration) with more clinical finishing. San Marino were much closer to England men than Latvia to the women.

In truth despite their ranking San Marino aren't the worst mens team either they are just in a much tougher area than Guam, British Virgin Isles, Anguilla etc... but the gap is stark in women's football, Republic of Ireland (rank33) won 11-0 the same night, N. Ireland 9-0 (rank 48) the night before and Belgium 19-0 (rank 19 I think).
 

RedDribble

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Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it shouldn't be encouraged to reach its maximum potential. There are far more people interested and involved in women's football (even if you are not one of them) than figure skating. Simply because football is just a more popular sport. So they should invest there to make it better instead of only some niche discipline that interests far less people.
Do you have real facts that women football is more than figure skate? you know women figure skate is one of the biggest event in the Winter Olympics.

And I can also argue that if you invest more on figure skate it will be more popular.
 

Red the Bear

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I didn't know where to post this so this thread seemed apt.I don't really watch female football as its not my thing but is it really this lopsided? This looks ridiculous to be honest.
 

NotThatSoph

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I didn't know where to post this so this thread seemed apt.I don't really watch female football as its not my thing but is it really this lopsided? This looks ridiculous to be honest.
In Spain it is. Barcelona is a contender for the best team in the world, reigning Champion League winners and will be facing Lyon in the final soon.

The French, German, Italian and English leagues are closer.
 

Red the Bear

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In Spain it is. Barcelona is a contender for the best team in the world, reigning Champion League winners and will be facing Lyon in the final soon.

The French, German, Italian and English leagues are closer.
Well good to hear, that kinda of dominance can't be good.
 

Lay

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In Spain it is. Barcelona is a contender for the best team in the world, reigning Champion League winners and will be facing Lyon in the final soon.

The French, German, Italian and English leagues are closer.
The French wasn’t so close recently though. I’m sure Lyon had unbeaten seasons for years.

The standard in some leagues is extremely top heavy. I think Germany, Italy and England do it a lot better than some leagues. England especially has a competitive league which is great. Especially as foreign players have left the country in the past because it was too easy for them
 

horsechoker

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I didn't know where to post this so this thread seemed apt.I don't really watch female football as its not my thing but is it really this lopsided? This looks ridiculous to be honest.
They couldn't have done it without the female Messi, Xavi and Iniesta
 

Fox_Chrys

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A few contributors.

The womens game seems more vulnerable to emotional and confidence issues, the weaker teams often concede multiple times in 20 mins or so once the first goes in.

There seems to be a much larger gap in quality between the best and worse teams, the FA cup final had clear quality, but if you watch Leicester women play e.g. its no where near the same level.

Keepers are of much lower quality even in the top teams.

Plus the respect thing doesnt seem to exist in the womens game so much where teams back off when its obvious they done enough to win.
 

Solius

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From the admittedly few games I've watched, the keepers look like the biggest weak point here. That or the size of the goal frames.

I've seen so many shots basically go in dead centre of the goal, or in areas a keeper should really be reaching.
 

Mb194dc

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Just like when you cheat on FM for a season with a super team for laughs, perfect season!

Personally don't enjoy women's football as a spectacle, don't think it really works from an entertainment perspective.
 

padr81

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Maybe goal size should be reduced?
I was all for this too and thought it the best solution until someone on here made a really great point (apologies to the op as I can't remember who it was).

Womens teams often have to play on lower level mens teams pitches and across the board its pretty much impossible. Very often they are left to use whatever they can find and even up to almost the top level forced to use Sunday League pitches. While at the top level (wsl etc...) it can be done it would mean high level womens games have smaller goals than all others levels and Fifa would never go for that. It also would be next to impossible for Sunday League clubs to swap goals and goal sizes for 2 teams etc... A good solution in an ideal world with ideal facilities but can't be done in practice.
 

Red the Bear

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I was all for this too and thought it the best solution until someone on here made a really great point (apologies to the op as I can't remember who it was).

Womens teams often have to play on lower level mens teams pitches and across the board its pretty much impossible. Very often they are left to use whatever they can find and even up to almost the top level forced to use Sunday League pitches. While at the top level (wsl etc...) it can be done it would mean high level womens games have smaller goals than all others levels and Fifa would never go for that. It also would be next to impossible for Sunday League clubs to swap goals and goal sizes for 2 teams etc... A good solution in an ideal world with ideal facilities but can't be done in practice.
Yeah that's a great point it probably won't be too functional.

The perfect scenario would be having an slightly smaller pitch and goal compared to the man's game but that isn't really possible as you said.

Maybe it could change in the future if their game becomes more profitable, we'll see.
 

erikcred

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The womens game seems more vulnerable to emotional and confidence issues, the weaker teams often concede multiple times in 20 mins or so once the first goes in.
So, basically a Guardiola team in the CL?

Plus the respect thing doesnt seem to exist in the womens game so much where teams back off when its obvious they done enough to win.
Maybe that's the right thing to do. The respect thing is so overblown. Men's team or women's team, if you're bad enough to concede a cricket score consistently, you should not be playing in the same league.

Plus I'm guessing Liverpool now regret backing off when they could've probably beaten us 7-0 in both games. Goal difference may prove to be crucial for them. :D This is where Guardiola teams are ruthless. He'll happily beat teams 8-0 and then compliment the fighting spirit of the losing team.
 

padr81

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Yeah that's a great point it probably won't be too functional.

The perfect scenario would be having an slightly smaller pitch and goal compared to the man's game but that isn't really possible as you said.

Maybe it could change in the future if their game becomes more profitable, we'll see.
Hopefully for sure. Its sad to thing that in 2022 most womens teams are left using facilities not up to par for the men or not tailored to them.
Only 2 years ago the Irish womens team weren't allowed to keep their international team tracksuits and had to change into ones they were loaned in toilets on aeroplanes etc... Imagine going to play for your country and being told that you can't keep the tracksuit because they wanna share it with underage boys teams.
 

NotThatSoph

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The French wasn’t so close recently though. I’m sure Lyon had unbeaten seasons for years.

The standard in some leagues is extremely top heavy. I think Germany, Italy and England do it a lot better than some leagues. England especially has a competitive league which is great. Especially as foreign players have left the country in the past because it was too easy for them
Yes, PSG has entered the scene. They won the league last season, and will get second reasonably close to Lyon this year.

Women's football is very young as a professional sport, and the development is rapid. And as in the men's game the resources are unevenly distributed, meaning that the big clubs have an even bigger advantage.

When we're talking about salary differences in the men's game it's filthy rich vs very rich. Here it's comfortable vs barely able to get by without a second job. The sport needs time to grow the talent pool.

Just like when you cheat on FM for a season with a super team for laughs, perfect season!

Personally don't enjoy women's football as a spectacle, don't think it really works from an entertainment perspective.
The Allianz will be sold out next weekend, thankfully different people enjoy different things.
 

Red the Bear

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Hopefully for sure. Its sad to thing that in 2022 most womens teams are left using facilities not up to par for the men or not tailored to them.
Only 2 years ago the Irish womens team weren't allowed to keep their international team tracksuits and had to change into ones they were loaned in toilets on aeroplanes etc... Imagine going to play for your country and being told that you can't keep the tracksuit because they wanna share it with underage boys teams.
Yeah, must feel awful.

It's the sad reality of it in all honesty, there just isn't that much interest in it i reckon, it seems to be getting more popular though I doubt it would ever get close to anything that the men's game generates.
 

padr81

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Yeah, must feel awful.

It's the sad reality of it in all honesty, there just isn't that much interest in it i reckon, it seems to be getting more popular though though I doubt it would ever get close to anything that the men's game generates.
I think interest is growing for sure. Sky starting to broadcast is a step in the right direction in England (which is ahead of the curve for the most part), Its growing super fast so hopefully the money comes everywhere soon.
 

L1nk

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From the admittedly few games I've watched, the keepers look like the biggest weak point here. That or the size of the goal frames.

I've seen so many shots basically go in dead centre of the goal, or in areas a keeper should really be reaching.
That's the one thing i've noticed as well. Have watched multiple games and seen some fantastic outfield players akin to the mens game, which considering this is still a game in development in comparison is pretty great. The keepers however are absolutely shocking, and there isn't even an excuse about goal size when alot of these poor attempts at saves are within reach it's quite bizarre
 

horsechoker

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Can women's football ever reach the level of men's?

Men's football is probably ahead of most sports in terms of athleticism, competition, research etc.

I wonder if Rugby or Cricket are even close to football in terms of conditioning, data science etc.
 

Red the Bear

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Can women's football ever reach the level of men's?

Men's football is probably ahead of most sports in terms of athleticism, competition, research etc.

I wonder if Rugby or Cricket are even close to football in terms of conditioning, data science etc.
You mean profitably or just sheer quality?
 

horsechoker

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You mean profitably or just sheer quality?
Mostly quality but also all the stuff behind the scenes that optimises performance at the highest level (PEDs excluded).

Maybe other sports have greater research and training but it appears football is becoming the no. 1 due to the money in the game. Clubs are now becoming super-specialised in their training. Things like Liverpool working with some group to improve their psychological state when taking penalties speaks to how specialised the training is becoming.
 

MUW4Eva

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Yeah, must feel awful.

It's the sad reality of it in all honesty, there just isn't that much interest in it i reckon, it seems to be getting more popular though I doubt it would ever get close to anything that the men's game generates.
Errrr......over 90k twice have watched Barca's women play at the Camp Nou this very season, so I really don't see where you are coming from in terms of your point that it won't get close to anything the men's game generates.