So depending on when you were born and the hierarchy that was in place during your childhood, you’ll likely perceive clubs more in accordance with what you know than what was historically established. The likes of Leeds, Villa, Spurs, Forest or Everton ever truly having any genuine standing as top dog clubs may well not be a thing given it might have happened well before you started following football. The pendulum swings further as powerhouses of the 50’s or 60’s have little bearing on your consideration.It goes for the other direction; Chelsea and City, in particular per chance being afterthoughts and considered nouveau rich rather than clubs of true pedigree; a struggle within yourself to acknowledge that times change and what was may no longer be what is.
Even if you can take stock of the whole, without bias or prejudice, establishing order from the melting pot can take some doing. I think it’s fair to say that Arsenal, United and Liverpool are the only clubs who could universally be seen as perennials for the amount of time - spread across multiple decades - that they have been there or thereabouts at the top - they also have the most league titles between them despite the current insurgency. How much you weight that against the here and now and contemporary assessment is up to you. If, for example, you were to vs. Arsenal with City, you might not realise City are only 3 top division league titles behind Arsenal now, whilst having the European Cup (Champions League) over Arsenal’s Cup Winners’ Cup… in modern parlance that’s pretty much neck and neck since the FA Cup has been hideously diminished this century. An older fan might make a clear distinction between the clubs having only ever known of Arsenal as a serious club in their time alive, particularly during their own formative years. If you’re early to mid 20’s, there’s no stoneclad reason why you would follow suit - your formative years have revolved around Chelsea, United, City and Liverpool taking turns at the top, with every single one of them lifting the Champions League trophy, to boot.
Not intending to write an extensive intro, especially so since the majority likely read the header and not the OP, but I do want to make the point that this is on a global scale and as such trophies won in Europe should carry the stock and acclaim associated with that. Would enjoy reading reasoning for why you place who place where you do. To an extent there’s no right or wrong, but common sense tells you United and Liverpool - no matter your order - are #1 and #2. After that, I think cases can be made for three clubs vying for position for the next couple of slots.
For the purpose of this thread, please consider City’s and Chelsea’s achievements at face value as that provides greater scope for discussion… or perhaps do two tables, one at face and one without. Please provide a minimum of 20 teams; there’s no cap on how many above that you would like to include.
Anyway, for myself:
1. United. By a thread. Another PL or CL for them and this flips for me.
2. Liverpool. One more for a changing of the guard.
3. Chelsea. It feels as though Chelsea have been a more impactful force across league and European football for the longest time of the others by now. They also have 2 CL’s in that time.
4. City. Bludgeoned their way into reckoning, and if nothing changes, history will see them as 4-time in a row PL winners, treble winners and trailblazers (….).
5. Arsenal. They’re sliding by the decade. Haven’t won the league in over 20 years and have no European top trophy in their history. The old order really is outdated now.
6. Everton. Aside from Leeds, the only club outside the top 5 who were a league winning force across multiple seasons. Rubbish for a long time now, but a legacy club of the old order.
7. Villa. Sliding scale like Arsenal. Won the league and European Cup in the 80’s. Became a shadow of themselves in the mid 90’s and have barely recovered since.
8. Spurs. Mostly live off reputation forged in 60’s and 80’s that generally carries them despite barely winning anything. Only 2 league titles in entire history and barely anything in Europe.
9. Forest. Clough’s run is legendary. 2 European Cups as well. Have more European Cups than top division league titles!
10. Leeds. The joy is in them perennially suffering and falling from the great height they once had. Still, have 2 division 1 and a PL title to their name as well as some repute in Europe.
11. Newcastle. Almost solely for the mid 90’s. They’re also resurgent enough to be a top 8 team in the here and now.
12. Leicester. Were a presence for a period in the 2010’s.
13. Blackburn. Ditto for the early to mid 90’s. (All PL winners accounted for)
14. Fulham. Just there for quite some time.
15. West Ham. Basically Spurs with even fewer trophies.
16. Palace. As time goes by they’re more established as a PL club and have produced some decent players over the years. Also winning things of late.
17. Brighton. They’ve established a niche for themselves and pound for pound are probably the best run club in the country over their tenure.
18. Wolves. Erm.
19. Stoke. Rainy night. Away at Stoke. Proving ground of champions once upon a time.
20. Watford. Heard they were a decent once, when Barnes was there. Perhaps a Fulham before Fulham?
Even if you can take stock of the whole, without bias or prejudice, establishing order from the melting pot can take some doing. I think it’s fair to say that Arsenal, United and Liverpool are the only clubs who could universally be seen as perennials for the amount of time - spread across multiple decades - that they have been there or thereabouts at the top - they also have the most league titles between them despite the current insurgency. How much you weight that against the here and now and contemporary assessment is up to you. If, for example, you were to vs. Arsenal with City, you might not realise City are only 3 top division league titles behind Arsenal now, whilst having the European Cup (Champions League) over Arsenal’s Cup Winners’ Cup… in modern parlance that’s pretty much neck and neck since the FA Cup has been hideously diminished this century. An older fan might make a clear distinction between the clubs having only ever known of Arsenal as a serious club in their time alive, particularly during their own formative years. If you’re early to mid 20’s, there’s no stoneclad reason why you would follow suit - your formative years have revolved around Chelsea, United, City and Liverpool taking turns at the top, with every single one of them lifting the Champions League trophy, to boot.
Not intending to write an extensive intro, especially so since the majority likely read the header and not the OP, but I do want to make the point that this is on a global scale and as such trophies won in Europe should carry the stock and acclaim associated with that. Would enjoy reading reasoning for why you place who place where you do. To an extent there’s no right or wrong, but common sense tells you United and Liverpool - no matter your order - are #1 and #2. After that, I think cases can be made for three clubs vying for position for the next couple of slots.
For the purpose of this thread, please consider City’s and Chelsea’s achievements at face value as that provides greater scope for discussion… or perhaps do two tables, one at face and one without. Please provide a minimum of 20 teams; there’s no cap on how many above that you would like to include.
Anyway, for myself:
1. United. By a thread. Another PL or CL for them and this flips for me.
2. Liverpool. One more for a changing of the guard.
3. Chelsea. It feels as though Chelsea have been a more impactful force across league and European football for the longest time of the others by now. They also have 2 CL’s in that time.
4. City. Bludgeoned their way into reckoning, and if nothing changes, history will see them as 4-time in a row PL winners, treble winners and trailblazers (….).
5. Arsenal. They’re sliding by the decade. Haven’t won the league in over 20 years and have no European top trophy in their history. The old order really is outdated now.
6. Everton. Aside from Leeds, the only club outside the top 5 who were a league winning force across multiple seasons. Rubbish for a long time now, but a legacy club of the old order.
7. Villa. Sliding scale like Arsenal. Won the league and European Cup in the 80’s. Became a shadow of themselves in the mid 90’s and have barely recovered since.
8. Spurs. Mostly live off reputation forged in 60’s and 80’s that generally carries them despite barely winning anything. Only 2 league titles in entire history and barely anything in Europe.
9. Forest. Clough’s run is legendary. 2 European Cups as well. Have more European Cups than top division league titles!
10. Leeds. The joy is in them perennially suffering and falling from the great height they once had. Still, have 2 division 1 and a PL title to their name as well as some repute in Europe.
11. Newcastle. Almost solely for the mid 90’s. They’re also resurgent enough to be a top 8 team in the here and now.
12. Leicester. Were a presence for a period in the 2010’s.
13. Blackburn. Ditto for the early to mid 90’s. (All PL winners accounted for)
14. Fulham. Just there for quite some time.
15. West Ham. Basically Spurs with even fewer trophies.
16. Palace. As time goes by they’re more established as a PL club and have produced some decent players over the years. Also winning things of late.
17. Brighton. They’ve established a niche for themselves and pound for pound are probably the best run club in the country over their tenure.
18. Wolves. Erm.
19. Stoke. Rainy night. Away at Stoke. Proving ground of champions once upon a time.
20. Watford. Heard they were a decent once, when Barnes was there. Perhaps a Fulham before Fulham?
Arsenal
Chelsea
Everton
Liverpool
Man United
Tottenham
Aston Villa
Newcastle
West Ham
Man City
Southampton
Rovers
Leicester
Fulham
Crystal Palace
Sunderland
Leeds
Middlesbrough
West Brom
Bolton