It is pretty much widely accepted (and I think even Kenyon/Gourley said it) that the core Chelsea players (Cech, Terry, Lampard, Ballack and Drogba) took it on themselves with Grant as a passenger/first team coach in name only.
Biggest managerial downgrades
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Yeah, not in the same realm as SAF -> Moyes, but still dreadful.
Another one is Hamburg going from the great Ernst Happel to Josip Skoblar (who got sacked after 15 games) in 1987.
Three times in a row Champions League winning Zidane, to Lopetegui, surely has to have a place in here somewhere?
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Haven’t you got that the wrong way round? Zidane came in and won 3 Champions League’s after Benitez was sacked.
Ah yeah, I must have been thinking of Lopetegui. Sacked from the Spain job and it just continued to get worse from then on.
How about the opposite?
Kovac to Flick seems night and day
Kovac to Flick seems night and day
From our perspective, sadly Allardyce --> Steve Kean.
Sir Alex to Moyes. Going from the greatest manager of all time to, well, David Moyes. It becomes even more illogical when you think that Harry Redknapp is a far more accomplished manager winning and the FA Cup, qualifying for the Champions League twice and making it to the last 16. All Moyes did was get top 4 once and stay at Everton.
When you consider how long his contract was as well , I think this might be correct
Who on earth thought giving him a SIX year contract would be a good idea? As if anyone would come in and try and poach him?
Pretty much any manager who followed del Bosque at Real
Steve McClaren after Sven Goran Eriksson. Sven was rated highly among European managers, maybe not the best but not far off elite. SM did well with Boro and as assistant to Fergie but wasn't close to Sven's level.
Jorge Jesus to Jose Peserio.
Was like watching your dog get hit by a car 3x in a row.
Was like watching your dog get hit by a car 3x in a row.
Pep to Ancelotti was ugly as well at Bayern.
Tbf, he only played caretaker after we sacked Ancelotti.
However, as it turned out for us, Pep to Ancelotti and Ancelotti to Kovac both were downgrades, although neither of them as steep as Heynckes vs Kovac.
Roger Lemerre to Jacques Santini to Raymond Domenech
France managed to downgrade from 'great', to 'shit', to 'holy feck what is happening?!?!'
France managed to downgrade from 'great', to 'shit', to 'holy feck what is happening?!?!'
I think that was more a clash of approaches rather than a drop in quality. Ancelotti is very relaxed as a personality and after the focus of Guardiola’s years, I remember reading that players weren’t thrilled about the lack of intensity in training and match prep.
Quality wise though, Ancelotti is one of the games greatest with 3 CL’s to his name. Guardiola might never better that for all his plaudits.
Big Sam to Steve Kean. Pretty sure they were comfortable under Big Sam. Relegated with Steve Kean who went to manage in Malaysia afterwards
I am aware of what Ancelotti did 20 years ago but him taking over from Pep was shocking. I watch most Bayern games and it went from „let’s execute this plan“ to „here is the ball, dribble past your opponent“ within weeks.
Ancelotti has won the CL more recently than Pep. Ok, Bayern didn’t take to his methods and it was a sloppy transition, but I don’t think, purely from a quality standpoint, that it was such a big downgrade.
He just wasn’t the right fit for the club at that time.
Let’s just agree to disagree.
The situation in 2010 was fascinating. Very rare you see something like that at a major tournament
How about a coach that selects his players based on astrology? Or right after losing the world cup final going on his first interview to propose to his girlfriend. Domenech was just next level embarrassment. but nowhere near as much as the FFF deciding to keep him on for that long because Zidane and co got him to a WC final.The situation in 2010 was fascinating. Very rare you see something like that at a major tournament
There was zero sense in Spurs appointing Jose, literally none.
A club that are already stingy with wages and transfers appointing a manager who's very much short term based and often leaves clubs with huge rebuilding tasks when they have a stadium to pay off, it's going to be Mou's biggest meltdown yet, infact it was already heading that way before the suspension. He's likely going to be watching his old Classico foe, ex player and his United successor leaving him trailing in his wake in coming years, it's going to kill him.
They should have gone down the same route Arsenal did by appointing a young modern progressive coach who will patiently build and coach a new side to hopefully (for their sake) in time compete.
People knocking Roy Hodgson on here is unfair. He came into the Liverpool job a well-respected manage ron the continent. He managed Inter Milan for two seasons in the mid-190's and again as caretaker boss in 1999. He had managed at international level with Finland (I know but that's not the point) and had taken Fulham to the Europa league cup final in 2010 and in that season won the LMA Manager of the Year by a record margin.
He is a manager I respect greatly, although Euro 2016 was a shambles.
He is a manager I respect greatly, although Euro 2016 was a shambles.
Brian Kerr to Steve Staunton for Ireland. Bad to worse.
(Kerr was ok in fairness).
(Kerr was ok in fairness).
Has anyone mentioned Fergie to Moyes yet?
Oh, everyone...oh, ok.
Oh, everyone...oh, ok.
Iran went from Carlos Queiroz and almost knocking out Portugal at the WC to Wilmots and – maybe – not qualifying for the next WC.
He did alright that season and actually at Portsmouth when they got to FA cup final and might've won if Boateng had scored the penalty at 0-0 (IIRC they pretty matched Chelsea in that game). West Ham got a little carried away though and he was awful, relegating a reasonably decent squad especially as mid season they signed likes of Demba Ba and Robbie Keane.
Anyway though it's not always just letting the team do what they want as Scolari reign was pretty bad and Chelsea were looking good to finish 6th or 7th when he was sacked.
He was absolutely horrendous for Liverpool, so he suits the criteria pretty well tbf.
Congratulations to David Moyes for finally winning something, (this thread).
Martin O'Neill to Houllier was a bit of a downgrade for us and started the decade long decline. Houllier not a bad manager but at time we appointed him in September 2010 he'd last managed at Lyon in 2007 and since then had been working part time as a scout for French FA so was in semi retirement.
Roger Lemerre was not bad but I'd argue that the 98 team was coming to maturity and to an extent was running itself on Aimé Jacquet's principles, while becoming more expansive with the development of its attacking players. I think following Jacquet's departure, it was a slow decrescendo, with Domenech as the final piece.
This is a bit of a myth. Domenech was a car crash but this was said more tongue in cheek, but was made out as if he selected his first XI based on the morning's horoscope. It was just a small piece of criteria that he used to understand his players' character.
Capello to Hodgson
Eriksson to McClaren was a far bigger downgrade especially considering England couldn't even qualify for a major tournament in the era when last 4 of CL regularly had three English teams in and there was a decent core of English players in those teams.
I have no problems with Lemerre, I used him as the standard in the comparison, the starting point to measure the downgrade which started with Santini, although I agree that while Lemerre did well, this was a team that didn't need much coaching prowess to win at that point.
And yeah, I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek myself, there's countless more valid reasons why Domenech was a train wreck. I think he's the only coach I've ever felt actual animosity towards in my entire life, felt like he hijacked the national team and no matter how bad it got, he was still in charge.
Great thread idea when I thought most of the good ones had been done. I'd say Arsenal fans must wonder about George Graham to Bruce Rioch.
Ottmar Hitzfeld - - > Jurgen Klinsmann
Ottmar won the BL and reached the semi final of the UEFA Cup, Klinsmann got sacked near the end after Bayern weren't anywhere near the top and got embarrassed first by Barcelona and then Woflsburg.
That did make way though for the return of Heynckes to management. Took over as a caretaker and then moved to Leverkusen for two seasons, then of course came back to Bayern.
Ottmar won the BL and reached the semi final of the UEFA Cup, Klinsmann got sacked near the end after Bayern weren't anywhere near the top and got embarrassed first by Barcelona and then Woflsburg.
That did make way though for the return of Heynckes to management. Took over as a caretaker and then moved to Leverkusen for two seasons, then of course came back to Bayern.
Ottmar Hitzfeld to Nevio Scala to Michael Skibbe to Bernd Krauss
Matthias Sammer to Bert can Marwijk to Jürgen Röber to Thomas Doll
Thomas Tuchel to Peter Bosz to Peter Stöger
Dortmund sure knew how to continuously downgrade to the absolute bottom.
Matthias Sammer to Bert can Marwijk to Jürgen Röber to Thomas Doll
Thomas Tuchel to Peter Bosz to Peter Stöger
Dortmund sure knew how to continuously downgrade to the absolute bottom.
David Brent to Neil Godwin's another shocker.