Birmingham lack of success in English Football

[HTG]

What's your point with these examples? Rome is a larger City than Milan and Turin or Naples, Lisbon is far bigger than Porto, London is far bigger a City than Manchester, Paris is far bigger than Marseille (or St. Etienne), Berlin is a minnow in football terms, Dortmund or Gladbach are tiny Cities in comparison. It's almost as if population size and club size aren't that strongly correlated and therefore it's no great mystery that Birmingham doesn't have a huge football club

Dortmund is located in the most densely populated area in all of Europe, if I’m not mistaken. So while the city itself is not gigantic, there are loads and loads of people living right around the corner.
And of course a big population helps. Its not the only factor that matters, obviously, but it makes things a lot easier.
There is a reason almost every successful club in Europe is located in a big city or densely populated area with loads of potential supporters. There are exceptions, of course.

 

[RoyH1]

Had Abu Dhabi bought Aston Villa instead of City, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
That said, amediocre as Birmingham’s football record is compared to some similar sized cities. it has more European championships than the likes of Berlin, Paris or Rome.

 

[WolfInSharp'sClothing]

Wolves?

Is nothing to do with fecking Birmingham!!!

 

[bp19992]

To be fair, besides London, the UK isn't an exciting place to live. Even London wasn't that exciting when I first went. British people are pretty funny though and know how to have a good time. Nothing is worse than Italy though, and I don't care how beautiful the country is (yes, I am complete biased and basing this on a bad experience)

I'm German and lived in Edinburgh for half a year when I was a student. Best city I've ever been to, still miss it. Much better place to live than London.

 

[RedTiger]

Out of interest, what's it like?

Bubbley gum everywhere

 

[DVG7]

 

[do.ob]

Dortmund is located in the most densely populated area in all of Europe, if I’m not mistaken. So while the city itself is not gigantic, there are loads and loads of people living right around the corner.
And of course a big population helps. Its not the only factor that matters, obviously, but it makes things a lot easier.
There is a reason almost every successful club in Europe is located in a big city or densely populated area with loads of potential supporters. There are exceptions, of course.

By now sure, given how things have developed since the 90s Dortmund and Schalke basically divide the entire area between them, but historically there is also no region in Germany with such a density of tradition rich football clubs. You could make a similar point about Leverkusen, since it's basically a suburb of Cologne.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

I thought Liverpool was the second largest city in England.

Not even top 5.

I also like how people diss Birmingham (possibly after watching that shit TV show, Peaky Blinders).... as if Manchester, London, Glasgow , etc are all beautiful places from centre to suburbs. They're not.

A thread about London's lack of success in Europe seems more appropriate given population (for decades) and the magnet it has for foreign players (last couple of decades especially).

 

[littlepeasoup]

Villa are a more successful club historically than Spurs.

 

[Offside]

Villa are a more successful club historically than Spurs.

And Chelsea. And Palace. And West Ham. And Fulham. As I said in a previous post, if it wasn't for Arsenal a "London's lack of success in English football" thread would be more appropriate, and when you consider population, size etc maybe even with Arsenal it would still be more appropriate.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

To be fair, besides London, the UK isn't an exciting place to live. Even London wasn't that exciting when I first went. British people are pretty funny though and know how to have a good time. Nothing is worse than Italy though, and I don't care how beautiful the country is (yes, I am complete biased and basing this on a bad experience)

I think my experience in England is mixed. English people are normally great to talk with and fun people. Very polite most of the time.
Although the infrastructure is very poor yet very expensive. Particular in London.
Feels like noone has bothered to uppgrade things much. It might not be worth the cost, but for some reason everything is bloody expensive anyway.
Some Cities can still be lovely and I think getting away from the central areas do you a lot of good.
Ticket costs for games are insane too and I feel sorry for normal people in England.

 

[Chipper]

Not even top 5.

What's the definitive measure? Seems there's millions ways of counting.

English districts Liverpool is 9th - London is 316th, presumably because they're counting London as just that 1 square mile or whatever it is that officially makes up the City of London

Urban areas - Liverpool would be 5th in England, 6th in UK .

EPSON metroplitan areas whatever they are has Liverpool-Birkenhead 5th.

'Localities' has the scousers 2nd.

Think I'd go with urban areas or metropolitan areas myself but I can see why people would be confused.

Edit: If we go Metropolitan areas then Birmingham gets to claim Wolves' and Coventry's trophies too. With urban areas they get Wolves and West Broms. Not sure if people from these places would agree that they're from Birmingham.

 

[Grinner]

Second city is a bit of a crap accolade.

 

[Bastian]

To be fair, besides London, the UK isn't an exciting place to live. Even London wasn't that exciting when I first went. British people are pretty funny though and know how to have a good time. Nothing is worse than Italy though, and I don't care how beautiful the country is (yes, I am complete biased and basing this on a bad experience)

Define exciting. I'd say there are loads of lovely places in England. And your stance on Italy is as you say, completely biased

Does it matter that footballers can't go to the beach when they all go to Dubai or Malta or wherever the feck when they have the chance?

Birmingham isn't the most beautiful place in the world, I'll admit, but I'd rather play in front of 40.000 at Villa than 20.000 in a nicer European city. Also, the money.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Birmingham isnt that bad, ive been there plenty of times i prefer it to Liverpool tbh.

 

[711]

Looks terrible compared to

You haven't said which is which.

 

[MsNuno]

Why is there such a lack of successful clubs in the south west? Cornwall Devon for example

 

[711]

Villa are a more successful club historically than Spurs.

Preston North End is level with Spurs for league titles, two each. And Preston has a dock, like Marseilles. Pretty similar really.

 

[dablem_10]

some other example:
Berlin - biggest city in germany - how many berlin teams titles are there? i guess 0 to 1
Roma - biggest italian city - how many lazio and as have titles together? if i said number 4, its maybe too much

even Paris before oil money were nowwhere close with titles in compare to smaller cities. (btw PSG founded 1970, before maybe Paris FC or Red star paris, but dominance was from other parts of country)

 

[Stig]

This is kind of touching on one of my pet peeves, which is that England is so London centric. I read that London had the GDP of Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and Glasgow combined. So we get a country of two economies, London and the rest.

We need a new airport and they put in a new runway at Heathrow, why not put it in Birmingham or one of the other cities. The purpose of HS2 seems to be to enable people to get to London more quickly. Why the focus on London ? I think England needs to de-Londize and boost the other cities - I was glad when the BBC moved from London to Manchester and this will be the basis of my political campaign.

Make The Other Cities Great Again.

 

[Charles Miller]

All clubs should be in London. Amazing city.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

What's the definitive measure? Seems there's millions ways of counting.

English districts Liverpool is 9th - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_districts_by_population London is 316th, presumably because they're counting London as just that 1 square mile or whatever it is that officially makes up the City of London

Urban areas - Liverpool would be 5th in England, 6th in UK - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_United_Kingdom

EPSON metroplitan areas whatever they are has Liverpool-Birkenhead 5th - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPON_metropolitan_areas_in_the_United_Kingdom

'Localities' has the scousers 2nd - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_localities_in_England_by_population

Think I'd go with urban areas or metropolitan areas myself but I can see why people would be confused.

Edit: If we go Metropolitan areas then Birmingham gets to claim Wolves' and Coventry's trophies too. With urban areas they get Wolves and West Broms. Not sure if people from these places would agree that they're from Birmingham.

No idea which but don't see why Birkenhead would be included with Liverpool by any measure. They're on opposite sides of the Mersey for a start and ask anyone in Birkenhead where they live and they'll probably say "the Wirral".

If you don't group Wolverhampton with Birmingham (correctly), you don't lump towns on the Wirral with Liverpool.

Localities seems to be some vague term of how to define an area of the country and apparently "Liverpool" goes all the way across to Ashton in Makerfield (?)

Regardless, Liverpool punch above their weight in terms of football unfortunately

 

[RedTiger]

some other example:
Berlin - biggest city in germany - how many berlin teams titles are there? i guess 0 to 1
Roma - biggest italian city - how many lazio and as have titles together? if i said number 4, its maybe too much

even Paris before oil money were nowwhere close with titles in compare to smaller cities. (btw PSG founded 1970, before maybe Paris FC or Red star paris, but dominance was from other parts of country)

Until Chelsea won a CL, the 5 largest cities in Europe had no CL winners.

 

[horsechoker]

You haven't said which is which.

Birmingham Harbour is popular all year round

 

[Classical Mechanic]

This is kind of touching on one of my pet peeves, which is that England is so London centric. I read that London had the GDP of Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and Glasgow combined. So we get a country of two economies, London and the rest.

We need a new airport and they put in a new runway at Heathrow, why not put it in Birmingham or one of the other cities. The purpose of HS2 seems to be to enable people to get to London more quickly. Why the focus on London ? I think England needs to de-Londize and boost the other cities - I was glad when the BBC moved from London to Manchester and this will be the basis of my political campaign.

Make The Other Cities Great Again.

Imagine high speed rail from Liverpool - Manchester - Leeds. It would genuinely make it a single economic area.

 

[Fortitude]

This thread doesn't really work.

Aston Villa

1 European Cup
7 English Division 1 titles
2 English Division 2 titles
7 F.A. Cups
5 League Cups
1 European Super Cup
1 Interto Cup

That's amongst the highest decorated in the country, especially so with the European Cup added to domestic achievements.

Villa were also a highly respect side until the mid '90's, at which point, they fell off a cliff, but that is no different to a team like Everton, who are also highly decorated historically.

Birmingham City, however, I've no idea why they are what they are.

 

[Red Keane]

Birmingham (and the wider West Midlands) lack of footballing success mainly due to 2 factors:

1) Too many major football clubs (Football League level or above) in the wider area.

2) Too many bad owners over the last few decades

 

[MackRobinson]

Is nothing to do with fecking Birmingham!!!

I was lied to. Someone told me they were in the same metro area.

 

[MackRobinson]

Disagree.

That's fair.
Let me say the UK doesn't seem like an exciting place to live. For me, it's mainly the weather and drinking culture.

Every single time I've visited the UK it's rained. 4 separate times downpour every time. Last time I was in Manchester I couldn't believe how gray the sky was. It was damn near depressing. I'm from a place with shit weather but this was just too much.

The drinking culture is just too much IMO. Going out was fun until a certain point went you realize you are the least drunk person every spot you go to. Granted it probably more so the places I was taken to but what I saw sorta fit the stereotype.

Also, the weed in the UK is shite. Understandable and not a huge deal breaker, but not ideal.
Also, UK customs gives me shite every time at Heathrow. Someone of the questions I've been asked have been downright disrespectful. Again not a deal-breaker, but I'm a bit salty.

 

[MackRobinson]

I think my experience in England is mixed. English people are normally great to talk with and fun people. Very polite most of the time.
Although the infrastructure is very poor yet very expensive. Particular in London.
Feels like noone has bothered to uppgrade things much. It might not be worth the cost, but for some reason everything is bloody expensive anyway.
Some Cities can still be lovely and I think getting away from the central areas do you a lot of good.
Ticket costs for games are insane too and I feel sorry for normal people in England.

Sounds like New York City, but I actually like NY a lot and I'm moving there in the next 2 months. That's just the price for being a world-class city where you can do anything at any time. Better than a place like San Francisco, which is cleaner, more spacious, more aesthetic, while having 1/4 of the options of NY, with less interesting people and it costs more than NY.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

That's fair.
Let me say the UK doesn't seem like an exciting place to live. For me, it's mainly the weather and drinking culture.

Every single time I've visited the UK it's rained. 4 separate times downpour every time. Last time I was in Manchester I couldn't believe how gray the sky was. It was damn near depressing. I'm from a place with shit weather but this was just too much.

The drinking culture is just too much IMO. Going out was fun until a certain point went you realize you are the least drunk person every spot you go to. Granted it probably more so the places I was taken to but what I saw sorta fit the stereotype.

Also, the weed in the UK is shite. Understandable and not a huge deal breaker, but not ideal.
Also, UK customs gives me shite every time at Heathrow. Someone of the questions I've been asked have been downright disrespectful. Again not a deal-breaker, but I'm a bit salty.

I wonder why.

I don't think I've ever seen as a negative review of somewhere that the drugs on offer were of poor quality

 

[Righteous Steps]

That's fair.
Let me say the UK doesn't seem like an exciting place to live. For me, it's mainly the weather and drinking culture.

Every single time I've visited the UK it's rained. 4 separate times downpour every time. Last time I was in Manchester I couldn't believe how gray the sky was. It was damn near depressing. I'm from a place with shit weather but this was just too much.

The drinking culture is just too much IMO. Going out was fun until a certain point went you realize you are the least drunk person every spot you go to. Granted it probably more so the places I was taken to but what I saw sorta fit the stereotype.

Also, the weed in the UK is shite. Understandable and not a huge deal breaker, but not ideal.
Also, UK customs gives me shite every time at Heathrow. Someone of the questions I've been asked have been downright disrespectful. Again not a deal-breaker, but I'm a bit salty.

The weed is shit? Did you go London Manchester or Liverpool?

 

[yumtum]

I go to Birmingham regularly for work, the traffic is a nightmare, it looks dreary and the accents are horrid (and I'm Welsh...).

 

[jeff gurr]

Both Villa and City have had a terrible time with neglectful owners and management. Villa Park is still one of my favourite stadiums in the country. The Blues ground is like a dirty old metal shed - it's awful.

It's so important to have good owners & an efficient management team. You can have a great stadium with top class support but without quality ownership success is difficult. Birmingham & Aston Villa have both suffered in this area while Leicester & Wolves are excelling.

 

[stu_1992]

Is Birmingham the shittest 2nd city in Europe?

I mean if you look at Scotland Edinburgh is that capital but Glasgow is the biggest in terms of population, either way they're both big cities in Scotland.

In France you have Paris and Marseille, Germany it's Berlin and Munich, Italy Rome and Milan, Spain Madrid and Barcelona. The list could go on, you have some of the most desirable places to live, work and visit in Europe yet Birmingham pales in comparison.

I haven't been to Birmingham but honestly Marseille as a city is horrible in so many ways. Great location, but lacking everything else.

 

[MackRobinson]

I wonder why.

I don't think I've ever seen as a negative review of somewhere that the drugs on offer were of poor quality

Touche

And I prefer to call it alternative medicine. When I lived in San Francisco before it was legalized, I had a "prescription" issued by the state of California

 

[MackRobinson]

The weed is shit? Did you go London Manchester or Liverpool?

This was in London, but I'm admittedly a spoiled brat when it comes to marijuana.

 

[MackRobinson]

I'm German and lived in Edinburgh for half a year when I was a student. Best city I've ever been to, still miss it. Much better place to live than London.

I would like to visit other places outside of England next time I'm in the area. Scotland is on the top of that list.

Btw Berlin is probably one of my top 5 favorite cities in the world. The juxtaposition of East vs West. The cheapness. The eccentric people and nightlife. The doner. I could go on and on. If only Hertha or Union were better clubs.

 

[horsechoker]

I haven't been to Birmingham but honestly Marseille as a city is horrible in so many ways. Great location, but lacking everything else.

Well I mean it's full of French people so that's always going to drag it down.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Touche

And I prefer to call it alternative medicine. When I lived in San Francisco before it was legalized, I had a "prescription" issued by the state of California

Ah that would be amazing.