Blaming Woodward and all those above Ole

[Eric's Seagull]

We have expanded and rebuilt the recruitment side completely over the last 5 years though. Including the youth setup.
It was severely neglected the last years under Gill and Sir Alex, something that both Moyes and LvG reacted on.
The club has tried to remedy it, and its probably one of the major reason that the club wants to keep faith in what its has been doing by promoting youth more than before even.
Still: one cant judge if that overhaul should be deemed a success or not for another couple of years.
The scouting and recruitment system focuses on players in their teens and maybe even lower. This takes time to settle and to be effective. A lot of the recruitment of younger players depends on our recruitment teams personal contact with those young players and their families. Which is where we were lagging behind Chelsea, City and others when Sir Alex left. Those relationships take time to build.
The recruitment for players immidiately destined for the first team will always pretty much be down to the manager, even if the heads of recruitment will have their inputs.
The idea that Woodward has any input here except for wage-budget concerns is still one of the most weird narratives ever. And somehow it seems to have been widely accepted.
As been said earlier in this thread, Wan-Bissaka and Maguire were always obvious targets for the first team.
As will Sancho and Maddison be next summer plus at least/hopefully two world class midfielders.
Here; the recruitment department will not have had a big final say, its probably been very clear for a long time which targets we have for nxt summer. And like Wan-Bissaka or Maguire it will be clear choices.
Then secondly it will be a financial question and if the player wants to come himself enough (see Dybala).
And thirdly; and maybe most essentially what we do if our first/second targets are not available for any of those reasons. Do we buy number 5 on the list like we did with Fred just to buy someone during that window or do we sit still in the boat and wait for our primary targets, like we seem to have done last summer?
The last question is extremely important and not an easy one to answer.
I tend to believe OGS and Woodward when they indicate that they rather will put faith in youth until the right player is available. They might have overdone it last summer, especially in midfield where it would have been a good idea IMO to bring in at least one "lower-ranked" player or why not a Matuidi to bridge the gap. I dont buy at all that this was due to financial constraints.

As you say we have expanded the recruitment side, well why couldn't they find a better alternative than Longstaff in the summer.

Would really love the first part in bold to happen but doubt we would even fork out that type of outlay even if these players became available.

I totally agree with you on the second part in bold. As I can't see us forking out significant money in the summer maybe it would be a good idea to look at some of the younger players who performing well in lower leagues and they to purchase them at a decent price before someone else buys them then we attempt to buy them later on and pay ludicrous wages.

 

[red thru&thru]

Quite simple really and let's not complicate this. Since 2013, no one at the football club has succeeded. If we are to keep blaming the managers for not getting the players to perform, we then also have to blame Ed/board/owners for not getting the club as a whole performing.

We all now know Manchester United is no longer the richest club in UK, so even the guys who say Ed is performing on the finaces side, he isn't. Ed is incompetent at his job. Quite simple.

 

[waza7111]

I refuse to believe that the Glazers and Ed Woodward are so toxic that no manager can possibly succeed here despite being given hundreds of millions every year to spend.

 

[red thru&thru]

I refuse to believe that the Glazers and Ed Woodward are so toxic that no manager can possibly succeed here despite being given hundreds of millions every year to spend.

Even though every manager that has left us and the people "ITK", say otherwise?

 

[Johan07]

As you say we have expanded the recruitment side, well why couldn't they find a better alternative than Longstaff in the summer.

Would really love the first part in bold to happen but doubt we would even fork out that type of outlay even if these players became available.

I totally agree with you on the second part in bold. As I can't see us forking out significant money in the summer maybe it would be a good idea to look at some of the younger players who performing well in lower leagues and they to purchase them at a decent price before someone else buys them then we attempt to buy them later on and pay ludicrous wages.

Well, its just speculation, but you dont know that they did not. And I dont either.
I would imagine that we had at least two primary midfield targets last summer and for some reason; a financial one or that the player was not available or did not want to come: we chose not to go "lower" on the list and buy our second or third choices. This you can criticise, which I just did myself, but I absolutely dont think it has a financial reason. I think OGS made a decision to wait if we could not get our primary targets.
And again, a player like Longstaff is well known for all other PL-clubs and have been for a long time.
This idea that there are "diamonds in the rough" that can be found and just inserted in the United first team (and perform) by some great recruitment team or DoF might have been the case 15 years ago, but today when all elite and even semi-elite clubs have scouting in place all over the globe: not so much anymore.
Then I completely disagree with you about next years window. If we get rid of Sanchez for good, Matic leaves and maybe even Pogba: we will have saved up an enormous amound of wages that should be able to get us at least 5 top players in next season. And this had to be done for it to enable it to happen.
I see us investing heavily next summer window. Just think we should have gotten one midfielder in this summer, its not going to be great to have to buy 3-4 midfielders nxt summer and completely rebuild the midfield, regardless if they are top class players.

 

[Gio]

Yeah feck Woodward but Ole's failure has nothing to do with him. We can be a very successful club even with a shitty board.

You'll always play catch up with the other big clubs where all the important pieces of the jigsaw - players, staff, recruitment, youth development, fan expectations - fit together. Look at how seamlessly clubs such as City, Liverpool, Barcelona and Ajax operate where so much comes from the strategic alignment that flows from the top of the organisation. Solskjaer obviously isn't up to it, but he's a symptom and not the cause of United's fall from grace since 2013.

 

[waza7111]

Even though every manager that has left us and the people "ITK", say otherwise?

I agree it would help to have a DOF but I don't see how that is responsible for our team looking so clueless most of the time. The management/coaches need to take a lot of the blame for that.

 

[TrueRed79]

Woodward has taken us from a team that won the league and in the CL to a team in 9th and flying to Kazakstan to play a game in -20 degrees at 3:30pm GMT on a Thursday. But ok OP, absolutely whatever.

 

[Jonno]

I refuse to believe that the Glazers and Ed Woodward are so toxic that no manager can possibly succeed here despite being given hundreds of millions every year to spend.

They've not forseen so many sackings and as a result so many redundant and alienated players in the squad.

Every industry has long-term strategy plans. Seems like Man United do not. They didn't forsee Mourinho would only last 3 seasons and therefore the next manager wouldn't fancy Lukaku. Yet it happened. The amount of time and money invested in Lukaku, and we sold him for a slight loss and didn't replace him! Then the season after, the club is crying out for a top centre forward.

The planning and forward thinking is absolutely scandalous for a "top" club.

City employed the right people 8-9 years ago and they've resulted in a steady conveyor belt of top talented players being bought at the right time and sold at the right time.

 

[roonster09]

We have expanded and rebuilt the recruitment side completely over the last 5 years though. Including the youth setup.
It was severely neglected the last years under Gill and Sir Alex, something that both Moyes and LvG reacted on.
The club has tried to remedy it, and its probably one of the major reason that the club wants to keep faith in what its has been doing by promoting youth more than before even.
Still: one cant judge if that overhaul should be deemed a success or not for another couple of years.
The scouting and recruitment system focuses on players in their teens and maybe even lower. This takes time to settle and to be effective. A lot of the recruitment of younger players depends on our recruitment teams personal contact with those young players and their families. Which is where we were lagging behind Chelsea, City and others when Sir Alex left. Those relationships take time to build.
The recruitment for players immidiately destined for the first team will always pretty much be down to the manager, even if the heads of recruitment will have their inputs.
The idea that Woodward has any input here except for wage-budget concerns is still one of the most weird narratives ever. And somehow it seems to have been widely accepted.
As been said earlier in this thread, Wan-Bissaka and Maguire were always obvious targets for the first team.
As will Sancho and Maddison be next summer plus at least/hopefully two world class midfielders.
Here; the recruitment department will not have had a big final say, its probably been very clear for a long time which targets we have for nxt summer. And like Wan-Bissaka or Maguire it will be clear choices.
Then secondly it will be a financial question and if the player wants to come himself enough (see Dybala).
And thirdly; and maybe most essentially what we do if our first/second targets are not available for any of those reasons. Do we buy number 5 on the list like we did with Fred just to buy someone during that window or do we sit still in the boat and wait for our primary targets, like we seem to have done last summer?
The last question is extremely important and not an easy one to answer.
I tend to believe OGS and Woodward when they indicate that they rather will put faith in youth until the right player is available. They might have overdone it last summer, especially in midfield where it would have been a good idea IMO to bring in at least one "lower-ranked" player or why not a Matuidi to bridge the gap. I dont buy at all that this was due to financial constraints though. Its not supported by evidence over the years since Sir Alex left.

Bold part is the problem, you don't need a overhaul the entire set up to sign these players, anyone who watches PL or follows big leagues knows these players.

I know we have done lot of work behind the scenes, especially when it comes to academy recruitment but for the first team it's been a failure, or at least not a successful one. We shouldn't be spending 5 years to get few basic things right. When every club is moving to structure where they employ specialists for each role, like coaching, recruitment it's a failure on club part to expect manager to take care or head all these things.

We should be having people whose sole focus is squad building and planning for the future, if we have someone who is doing that role then they are not doing it right.

Like I said in previous post, Woodward said it's hard to sign 3 players in a window and going by last 2 summers we are struggling to close the deals. Then we have few clubs who have signed many players in a single window and didn't hide behind transition excuse. I mean we are in state of transition for last 7 years and we will continue to do so unless we improve the recruitment and coaching staff.

 

[bsCallout]

Yea I feel you.

First thing he did was pushed Fellaini out of the club as harshly as possible. Did the same to Lukaku in summer. 'Not Man Utd players.' Kicked Smalling out too, who whilst not great isn't much worse than slabhead. Gave new contracts to all manner of junk (Yes, that includes Mata)

Went on to buy players we needed less, and not ones we needed more.

Went into the season criminally underprepared, and has hung the kids out to dry. I want him sacked ASAP.

Guess I'm not a 'real' fan.

Fellaini needed to go and wanted to go. Lukaku also wanted to go and was not the style of player we needed at all, and as has recently come out, has his own attitude problems.
Smalling was not kicked out, they made a mutual decision because Smalling wasn't going to be a first choice CB anymore.

& Mata was really only given a contract to keep De Gea.

None of those were bad decisions, and no one thought they were at the time.

You can't tell me RB, CB & a winger weren't priorities? With a fit squad we have a good enough Midfield (McTominay, Fred, Pogba) compared to what would have been our first choice RB, CB or RW if we didn't buy new ones. I.E. Young/Dalot for RB , Rojo/Jones/Smalling for CB, Lingard/Mata/Chong for RW.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Well, its just speculation, but you dont know that they did not. And I dont either.
I would imagine that we had at least two primary midfield targets last summer and for some reason; a financial one or that the player was not available or did not want to come: we chose not to go "lower" on the list and buy our second or third choices. This you can criticise, which I just did myself, but I absolutely dont think it has a financial reason. I think OGS made a decision to wait if we could not get our primary targets.
And again, a player like Longstaff is well known for all other PL-clubs and have been for a long time.
This idea that there are "diamonds in the rough" that can be found and just inserted in the United first team (and perform) by some great recruitment team or DoF might have been the case 15 years ago, but today when all elite and even semi-elite clubs have scouting in place all over the globe: not so much anymore.
Then I completely disagree with you about next years window. If we get rid of Sanchez for good, Matic leaves and maybe even Pogba: we will have saved up an enormous amound of wages that should be able to get us at least 5 top players in next season. And this had to be done for it to enable it to happen.
I see us investing heavily next summer window. Just think we should have gotten one midfielder in this summer, its not going to be great to have to buy 3-4 midfielders nxt summer and completely rebuild the midfield, regardless if they are top class players.

I hope that we are able to get rid of Sanchez and and I don't think we are going to choise activate Matic extra one year option unless we bring in new manager and he decides he wants to keep him. I think pogba may go but I feel that what ever we get for him will be all or the majority of money we spend on transfers. I agree with you that we should be able to get 5 players but do you have faith in Woodward's ability to sign 5 players in one window?

 

[FreakyJim]

for fecks sake

 

[Dec9003]

I don’t really understand why anyone would stick up for Woodward and the glazers.
Maybe when the next manager struggles people will open their eyes to the clear issues at united.

 

[Bestietom]

The whole club wants change, from Directors, Woody, Ole, down to the Coaches, and get rid of half the scouts we have also.
When a new manager comes in, he needs the backing and time to build his team. If this don't happen we will never get back to the top of the tree.
But most of all we need the right man and coaches for the job. So who it is down to, should take the blame.

 

[Adisa]

Up until recent months I was on Ed Woodward's defenders on here. Ultimately, the success of the club is his responsibility and the last six years cannot be termed as anything but a failure.
He has to carry the can.
Ole as well needs to be binned.

 

[Judas]

I've defended aspects of Woodward in the past, but I don't think he deserves any defending anymore. He's killing this club.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Bold part is the problem, you don't need a overhaul the entire set up to sign these players, anyone who watches PL or follows big leagues knows these players.

I know we have done lot of work behind the scenes, especially when it comes to academy recruitment but for the first team it's been a failure, or at least not a successful one. We shouldn't be spending 5 years to get few basic things right. When every club is moving to structure where they employ specialists for each role, like coaching, recruitment it's a failure on club part to expect manager to take care or head all these things.

We should be having people whose sole focus is squad building and planning for the future, if we have someone who is doing that role then they are not doing it right.

Like I said in previous post, Woodward said it's hard to sign 3 players in a window and going by last 2 summers we are struggling to close the deals. Then we have few clubs who have signed many players in a single window and didn't hide behind transition excuse. I mean we are in state of transition for last 7 years and we will continue to do so unless we improve the recruitment and coaching staff.

What I don't get about us only be able to get 3 transfers done in the summer is that although it was a long time ago, Chelsea managed to make 20 significant purchases over 2 seasons plus a few free transfers as well.

 

[Johan07]

I hope that we are able to get rid of Sanchez and and I don't think we are going to choise activate Matic extra one year option unless we bring in new manager and he decides he wants to keep him. I think pogba may go but I feel that what ever we get for him will be all or the majority of money we spend on transfers. I agree with you that we should be able to get 5 players but do you have faith in Woodward's ability to sign 5 players in one window?

Well, I dont buy in to the "Woodward" thing when it comes to these issues, but the club has proven themselves very comfortable doing so during Woodwards time as CEO. 8 players in during 14/15 and LvGs "purge". 6 players in 15/16 and 4 each 16/17 and 17/18; and 3 players 18/19. Thats exactly 5 per season.
Its a myth that the club cant do deals for multiple players every window.
As I have stated before I think we have chosen another way now and will focus on our first choices more, which is the interesting part of the discussion to me; how we will act if they will not come. You cant just buy 5-6 players every year if they are not your primary choices for the sake of it, it will affect what you can do the next transfer window, and the one after. Its extremely short-sighted.
Something we have seen the result of too much tbf.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Well, I dont buy in to the "Woodward" thing when it comes to these issues, but the club has proven themselves very comfortable doing so during Woodwards time as CEO. 8 players in during 14/15 and LvGs "purge". 6 players in 15/16 and 4 each 16/17 and 17/18; and 3 players 18/19. Thats exactly 5 per season.
Its a myth that the club cant do deals for multiple players every window.
As I have stated before I think we have chosen another way now and will focus on our first choices more, which is the interesting part of the discussion to me; how we will act if they will not come. You cant just buy 5-6 players every year if they are not your primary choices for the sake of it, it will affect what you can do the next transfer window, and the one after. Its extremely short-sighted.
Something we have seen the result of too much tbf.

I agree that you can't buy 5-6 players that are not first choice but to me it seems that when Woodward let our previous managers squander millions he got bit and doesn't want to again. Although I may be wrong.

 

[gica_7]

I refuse to believe that the Glazers and Ed Woodward are so toxic that no manager can possibly succeed here despite being given hundreds of millions every year to spend.

What? Everything that Woodward does is killing United from the inside. Okey, Poch would probably do a better job than Ole but can we really challenge title under Woodward's tenure? This man thinks signing 3 players in summer is difficult. And he is saying this after a summer that one of the players we transferred was from second division, the other one was a player we wanted a year ago and AWB was a target for months. Unless you do recruitment right, you can't challenge. Woodward doesn't know how to do it but this isn't the worst part. Woodward believes he is the best there is to do that job. He is that clueless.

He is so toxic that no manager will ever be able to challenge title under him.

 

[Gehrman]

Defending the guy who was moaning about how hard it is to complete 3 signings in a summer? Which is his bloody job?

Sorry can't agree.

How hard can it be? Its not a problem for other clubs. How long does it take to put a reasonable offer on the table for a player?

 

[waza7111]

Woodward is clearly just following instructions from the Glazers. He has been told to tighten the budget and reduce spending.

That's why we only signed 3 players last summer and let so many leave without replacing them. It's more important that we get rid of the Glazers.

 

[Havak]

Woodward and the board are the one constant in our biggest period of mediocrity for 30 years. Thus, it is mostly them to blame. They have had years to get it right and can't. They need to go first, along with the owners of course. It's very possible that Woodward and his team could do better with different owners, they probably don't get the same treatment as Fergie & Gill did. But, it has been proven that other people could get it to work well under the Glazer's ownership.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Woodward is clearly just following instructions from the Glazers. He has been told to tighten the budget and reduce spending.

That's why we only signed 3 players last summer and let so many leave without replacing them. It's more important that we get rid of the Glazers.

They come as a package as long as the Glazer's are here Woodward will be too. That's why I would like to see them all leave.

 

[freeurmind]

If Woodward worked for owners who cared about what happens on the football pitch, hed have been sacked minimum 2 years ago. If people are called deluded for supporting Ole through 6 months of failure, what do you call supporting someone through 6 years of failure?

 

[croadyman]

- Let Moyes replace the successful backroom staff and let senior players' contracts expire
- Aimed for Fabregas, Thiago and Bale, ended up overpaying for Fellaini
- Overpaid for Mata and set a precedent that he'd trust the manager (Moyes) for signings even on high wages even if they don't fit in
- Failed to recruit Klopp with Disneyland comments, failed to recruit Pep by laying out a structure for him
- Awarded Wayne Rooney a contract that would collapse our wage structure and haunt us in retrospect for years
- Showed no vision or consistency after we sacked Moyes and hired LVG who played tumescent, boring football
- Continued the precedent to trust the manager for most signings who don't fit in again, but identified targets poorly, didn't get who LVG wanted
- overpaid for those that we did acquire with not much foresight as to if they're long term recruits or if their motivation is simply money (AdM)
- Let go of key players without thinking of a possibility where the next manager could use them, only to sack the current manager within a season
- Lost faith in LVG after boring football and a fifth placed finish and sacked him unprofessionally right after a trophy, less than a season after we let expensive players leave based on his judgement
- No footballing vision or long-term plan when we hired Mourinho, another manager who traditionally doesn't trust youth, leaves teams broken after 3 years and plays conservative football
- Smashed the wage structure again by signing Alexis Sanchez with a contract that left the likes of De Gea with extremely high bargaining power
- Failed to learn from previous mistakes and again let key contracts run down losing bargaining power along the way, and eventually Herrera as well
- Once again, awarded the likes of Jones, Rojo, Smalling, Lingard new undeserved, overpaid contracts, unnecessarily boosting player power
- Gave Mourinho a new contract, but suddenly broke the precedent of trusting the manager with signings with Maguire, Perisic and allegedly Willian
- In the most crucial, marketable summer since SAF (a top manager, a squad with big name players and a 2nd placed finish, rivals strenghtening) we bought an overpriced CM and a backup RB/GK and set the clock back by years again
- After triggering Mourinho's meltdown, signed a rookie manager from Molde on the sole basis of him being a United legend, in another departure from consistency in footballing style
- Ended up signing the previous managers targets for higher, record transfer fees (Maguire)
- Did not have the foresight to at least wait out the rest of the season before hiring Ole fulltime
- Suddenly decided to balance the wages by by stripping the squad down to the bare bones in one go without replacing the big names that have left
- Left the squad massively imbalanced and extremely thin going into the season, despite Ole publicly promising a massive turnover


I don't think Ole is responsible for any of the above.

The bolded point hurts the most for me. We could have pushed on from 2nd place, we could have backed Jose properly and avoided the toxic meltdown. That is a moment to look back on and wonder what could have been if we'd gotten him Perisic and Maguire along with Fred and Dalot, and then spent again next summer. We may have stopped Liverpool's rise if we did that, and possibly stopped them from winning another CL.

Parts of the 'heritage' presser from Jose come to mind:



Jose couldn't use Depay, Rooney, Schneiderlin or Schweinsteiger. And Ole couldn't use Lukaku, Matic or Sanchez. That's 200m without any return right there.
And that's a direct reason for why Woodward is responsible.

I won't ever forgive Woody (Toy Story) for selling us as an adult version of Disneyland to Klopp. Things could have been so different if he came in and not kept faith with LVG until the end of that 15-16 season.

 

[soapythecat]

Crickey, a Woodward apology thread. The current state of this club is absolutely on Woodward.
Transfers: all in him. He pays OTT for every player he’s bought, he’s allowed them to be signed on extortionate wages, allowed players like Jones to be given huge contracts in the back of year of injury. Where do you think this isn’t on him?
His ability to conclude a transfer is pathetic.
Managers: made good choices, granted, but allowed the Jose situation to get out of hand. We all knew the type of players he would want yet didn’t give him all the tools he asked for. Why employ him if you aren’t going to back him. I know Jose spent a lot, but the money spent was on Woodward.
Briefing: Woodward comes across as one snide feck with his briefings. One minute manager safe, then sacked day after.
Stadium: OT is almost on its knees. What’s he doing about that? Never any mention.
If anyone thinks Woodward should not shoulder the majority of the blame for current state of United is pissed.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

As you say we have expanded the recruitment side, well why couldn't they find a better alternative than Longstaff in the summer.

Has anyone actually confirmed that we were in for Longstaff? As in, approached Newcastle with an actual offer?

Not saying we didn't, just asking, as I don't recall seeing anything like a confirmation anywhere.

 

[SweetRightFoot]

I've had enough of people shoving all the blame on Ed Woodward and defending Ole with this whole "until Woodward resigns". Complete nonsense. [1]I'm not here to say Woodward has done a great or even good job but it is nowhere near the incompetency Ole has shown.

[2]Woodward backed every LVG transfer till the end. Backed Mourinho with all sorts of players he wanted that turned out to be garbage. Mourinho was not backed for one season because of his failed transfer record. Yes Woodward made a [3]mistake giving Mourinho that long contract and I said it back then as well but at the time it did make sense.

Now he has made (in hindsight) the mistake of appointing Ole but put yourself in Woodwards shoes. Imagine not giving Ole the contract back then and getting another manager in who may also have failed. We would have slaughtered Woodward for "what could have been" with how Ole was winning every game. Still, Woodward does take some blame for not giving him a shorter contract or waiting till the end of the season.

[4]When it comes to summer 2019 transfers I simply do not understand how Ed Woodward is getting the blame. Time and time again, press conference after press conference Ole has shown his naive approach when it comes to judging players. Ole truly believed we would be fine going in this season with youth like Greenwood and Perreira. Okay, Wan Bissaka Maguire and James are good transfers but they cost a fortune -- any of us could have known Wan Bissaka or Maguire would be good fits. [5]A top manager would (such as Poch) would find a low price bargain. Someone like a Soyuncu.

[6]Ole chose to let Fellaini and Lukaku go and replace them with youngsters from the academy. [7]If Ole identified targets such as Dybala, Bale and/or Modric and the board failed to get them that is not the boards fault. Identifying world class players can be done by any of us on here. The manager failing to identify realistic targets is another blunder on his part.

Furthermore, Woodward is not to blame for Ole playing Perreira on the wings, Mata on the right and back three's when we don't need it.

Yeah feck Woodward but Ole's failure has nothing to do with him. [8]We can be a very successful club even with a shitty board.

1. So are you or are you not agreeing with the majority of absolutely everyone that Woodward has shown gross incompetence? Or is this another Ole out thread?

2. What's your point here? Almost all of the signings were failures and the one he didn't want to sign, that lost us our manager, he ended up paying for 12 months later who's fit in well. These are all points AGAINST Woodward here. Are you suggesting he should praised for signing BFS or Falcao or even Fellaini or Lukaku? You also seem to be under the impression that the manager has had the final say in transfers since Woodward has been here. Bizarre, considering the PR campaign we've seen about 'football men' and hi-tech scouting from the club this season.

3. So Mourinho was a mistake? And Ole? And other potential managers too? Who should be our manager then? Or will you man up and admit there have been errors at the top since the men at the top changed?

4. No ones blaming Woody for this summers transfers, they've been good. The only reason people have to blame Woody currently is the terrible squad depth and hiring Ole. You also realise Perreira is our 5th choice CM and 3rd choice AM right? How is that Ole thinking he's good enough? And we tried to sign strikers, patently obvious our management wanted one but we couldn't get one. Now is that Ole's or Woody's fault??

5. Hate to break it to you and your fanboy love but Poch had next to 0% involvement in transfers at Spurs. That's just a fact. Glad to finally find what your agenda is though.

6. Yeah, fantastic decisions if you like to watch or play football.

7. Now you are truly losing the plot. If the board (board? it's just Woodward and judge...) fail it's Ole's fault for not lining up realistic targets (the scouting department's job... also? realistic?? we are Man United and on top of that were not trying to sign Messi...)

8. Please give an example of a successful club with a shit board, you fantastist.

Worst thread on Red cafe in a while. Mental.

 

[lewwoo]

One common denominator. Actually two. Woodward and the glazers.

 

[JPRouve]

I won't ever forgive Woody (Toy Story) for selling us as an adult version of Disneyland to Klopp. Things could have been so different if he came in and not kept faith with LVG until the end of that 15-16 season.

Maybe I can help you find peace. It had little to do with Klopp decision to stay at Dortmund, he said that he had several concrete offers one of them being United, he took a few weeks to think about them and decided that his job at Dortmund wasn't finished. As for the comment itself, Woodward was refering to Old Trafford which has for nickname the theater of dreams and based on the report it wasn't a deal breaker for Klopp, he just thought that that line wasn't "sexy".

 

[Chesterlestreet]

We have outspent everyone but a tiny handful of clubs on transfers in the years since Fergie retired. And, even more damning, we have spent more on wages than pretty much anyone * (including the state funded ones) over the same period.

And what we have to show for it is - in a word - laughable. Whether you want to attribute this to the owners or to Woodward, specifically, is a bit of a toss-up depending on how you interpret Woodward's actual brief. At any rate, the owners have allowed him to remain in charge during a period of utterly shite results for the money spent. Unacceptable, most would - rightly - say.

* I can't back that up with figures - but it should be pretty close to the truth.

 

[GenZRed]

The OP has a good point. Woodward backed LvG and Mourinho, spending over half a billion in the process. Where people get the 'Glazars don't want to spend narrative' from I will never know.

What goes on with coaching and the training ground seems far more imporant than Woodward. Jose Mourinho sulking and being toxic was also a major contribution to his downfall.

Woodward may not be perfect but he is far from the number one issue. The number one issue is coaching and the money that LvG and Mourinho wasted. Yes Woodward would have approved those signing, but the manager at the time should take the blame of that not working out. The only issue I have with Woodward he is not appointing a Director Football as if it is true that he wants more control for himself, then I would have a serious issue with him.

 

[romufc]

8. Please give an example of a successful club with a shit board, you fantastist.

Can you explain why you think this board is shit?

Sometimes managers dont work out at certain clubs, that is what happened with Jose.

Ole had 8 months to review the players and as he says there was money there to spend but didn't spend it because the right player wasn't available.

People backing Ole on here as if he is immune from blame. We have won 4 PL games. 4 games.

Newcastle with a shit board with a good manager last season had a great season.

The manager we have is not good enough in the championship let alone PL.

 

[Enigma_87]

8. Please give an example of a successful club with a shit board, you fantastist.

Real Madrid? Chelsea?

 

[Ban]

Real Madrid? Chelsea?

How exactly Madrid and especially Chelsea have shitty boards?

 

[romufc]

How exactly Madrid and especially Chelsea have shitty boards?

How is the Manutd board shit?

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Has anyone actually confirmed that we were in for Longstaff? As in, approached Newcastle with an actual offer?

Not saying we didn't, just asking, as I don't recall seeing anything like a confirmation anywhere.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/soc...sources-united-stunned-by-50m-longstaff-price According to Rob Dawson we were put off by price and didn't make official offer. Not sure how reliable he is

 

[JPRouve]

We have outspent everyone but a tiny handful of clubs on transfers in the years since Fergie retired. And, even more damning, we have spent more on wages than pretty much anyone * (including the state funded ones) over the same period.

And what we have to show for it is - in a word - laughable. Whether you want to attribute this to the owners or to Woodward, specifically, is a bit of a toss-up depending on how you interpret Woodward's actual brief. At any rate, the owners have allowed him to remain in charge during a period of utterly shite results for the money spent. Unacceptable, most would - rightly - say.

* I can't back that up with figures - but it should be pretty close to the truth.

I blame Woodward for it because I believe that it's one of the CEOs main job, make sure that the club's captitals are used efficiently. Now my issue is that I believe that a lot of people are full of it, they state that Woodward should back managers at all costs, that the board in general shouldn't be involved in "football decisions" but when the board follows managers instructions and spend an absolute fortune on duds, who contrary to what some pretend aren't marketable and clearly not serving any off field goals, then it's on the board and Woodward. If I was a shareholder I would demand Woodward's firing because the club spent a fortune for no good reasons other than please managers.

And for what its worth, people should keep in mind what LVG said when he thoughts that United could buy every player on the transfer market. That idea is moronic and shows why these dumbasses acted the way they did on the transfer market. We somehow hired proper idiots which should also see Woodward fired but doesn't really excuse the mentality of our managers. They wouldn't expect that from Bayern and United isn't a lot richer than the germans.