Boring, boring Man United

[MinGin]

Interesting graphic demonstrating how similar our attacking output this season is to Mourinho's 2017/2018 season in charge.


It goes to show how a positive and unified atmosphere can influence fan's perception. Ole has definitely built himself a good platform to take it up another notch next season (assuming he's adequately backed in the summer) in terms of results and performances.

Here are the stats for defensive output for those interested. The numbers are remarkably similar across the board.

I like statistic !! Here you are for the more information of the statistic from different sides.

Attacking Stat

	17/18	19/20	20/21	ManCity 20/21
Goals per Game	1.8	1.7	2.0	2.1
Goal Conversion	20%	16%	20%	19%
Big Chances per game	1.4	2.3	2.5	2.9
Shot on target per game	4.7	5.7	5.8	5.8
Succ. Dribbles Per Game	12.3	11.8	10.6	12.8

- Big Chances Created is a huge improved under Ole than Jose's team.

Passes

	17/18	19/20	20/21	Man City 20/21
Ball Possession	54.8%	56.0%	55.9%	63.9%
Shot Pass Completion per game	201/225 (89.3%)	203/227 (89.6%)	216/239 (90.4%)	266/289 (92.2%)
Medium Pass Completion per game	182/211 (86.2%)	193/220 (88.1%)	205/230 (89.2%)	283/307 (92.2%)
Long Pass Completion per game	59/98 (60.1%)	56/89 (63.5%)	60/91 (65.7%)	80/108 (73.8%)
Progressive Pass per game	38.7	39.5	40.5	43.2
Pass Completion in Own Half	202 (91.8%)	204 (88.9%)	218 (89.9%)	258 (93.1%)
Pass Completion in Opposition Half	243 (74.1%)	240 (76.3%)	258 (77.9%)	347 (83.5%)
Long Ball Completion	23.2 (53.9%)	22.1 (53.8%)	23.1 (58.6%)	23.1 (63.5%)
Crossing Completion	3.9 (19.7%)	3.3 (19.7%)	3.9 (23.3%)	3.0 (17.9%)

- Our progressive pass and pass completion in opposition half is more than Jose's Team. But it is still far away from City.

Touch (i.e. Receiving a pass, then dribbling, then sending a pass counts as one touch)

Per Game	17/18	19/20	20/21	Man City 20/21
Def. Pen Area	56.1	61.2	61.6	54.9
Def 3rd Area	196.9	197.4	208.8	184.3
Mid 3rd Area	316.2	331.6	326.4	436.1
Att 3rd Area	204.8	1192.7	211.6	238.9
Att Pen Area	26.2	25.9	27.3	36.3

- We are willing to build up from behind than Jose's team and last year. But it is also far away from City.

Carries (i.e. Controlled the ball with their feet)

	17/18	19/20	20/21	Man City 20/21
Succ. Controlled	453.3	460.0	454.8	583.0
Number of Carries that towards the opponent's goal at least 5 yards or into the penalty area)	57.6	59.5	58.9	82.5
Number of Carries that enter the 1/3 of the pitch closest to the goal	16.6	17.5	18.7	21.4
Number of Carries into 18-yard box	5.0	5.6	4.6	8.5
Total distance (In any direction) (In Yards)	2477.6	2489.0	2490.5	3147.4
Progressive Distance (Towards the opponent's goal) (In Yards)	1337	1422.0	1408.0	1811.7

Defensive Actions

Per Game	17/18	19/20	20/21	Man City 20/21
Tackles won possession of the ball	8.7	9.4	9.8	10.0
Tackles in Def 1/3	6.8	7.7	7.5	5.8
Tackles in Mid 1/3	4.3	6.4	5.9	6.1
Tackles in Att 1/3	2.0	2.1	2.2	2.9
Gained possession within 5s of applying pressure	38.3/145.6 (26.3%)	43.4/154.2 (28.2%)	38.1/129.4 (29.4%)	36.8/115.3 (31.9%)
Pressure in Def 1/3	53.6	49.6	38.9	28.2
Pressure in Mid 1/3	61.9	68.8	56.4	51.7
Pressure in Att 1/3	30.1	35.8	34.1	35.4
Blocking the ball by standing in its path	15.3	16.6	17.0	10.9
Blocking a shot by standing in its path	3.4	3.1	3.6	2.2
Blocking a pass by standing in its path	12.0	13.6	13.4	8.8
Interceptions	10.7	7.9	10.9	8.7
Clearances	16.7	23.2	20.8	14.5
Error to lead opponent's shot (Total number)	11	7	3	4

- We played more high line and aggressive football than Jose's team

Goalkeeping

Per Game	17/18	19/20	20/21	Man City 20/21
Save / Shots on target against	3.1/3.8 (81.6%)	2.4/3.3 (72.7%)	2.5/3.4 (73.5%)	1.6/2.1 (76.2%)
Cross were successfully stopped by GK	0.6/9.3 (6.5%)	0.4/7.5 (5.3%)	0.5/8.0 (6.2%)	0.3/5.1 (5.9%)
GK defensive action outside of penalty area (In Total)	17	11	17	20
Average distance from goal of all defensive action (in yards) (In Total)	13.5	13.3	14.5	15.9

- Our GK saving % is the most disappointed section under Ole's team. Or De Gea was too impressive and play the most important role in the Jose's team which is saved Jose to secure his second position of 17/18 League.

All stats came from below website
https://www.sofascore.com/
https://fbref.com/en/

 

[Keefy18]

Well most clubs in the south of Europe are desperate to sell players so - yes it is absolutely necessary for them.

I wouldn't go so far as to say desperate.

I'd imagine most would like to keep their top players to remain as competitive as possible, if they are to be sold then they'll want as much as possible for the talent.

Talk of 400m over the course of a Haaland deal.. good luck.

 

[KD6-3.7]

Try watching some football, they are all very different managers with different approaches to the game

They are all kind of the same as in they all bored me to sleep. I’ll admit Van Gaal was probably the worst, Ole maybe the best but his probably had the best team out of the lot.

 

[lysglimt]

I wouldn't go so far as to say desperate.

I'd imagine most would like to keep their top players to remain as competitive as possible, if they are to be sold then they'll want as much as possible for the talent.

Talk of 400m over the course of a Haaland deal.. good luck.

Clubs like Sporting and Benfica struggled before the pandemic - Italian clubs are not doing well, and apart from Real and Barcelona (who always have someone bailing them out) - which Spanish clubs aren't struggling ?

 

[justsomebloke]

Well most clubs in the south of Europe are desperate to sell players so - yes it is absolutely necessary for them.

You'd think so, but that doesn't really seem to be the case, so far? When the market is depressed, it actually makes sense to try and avoid selling players, because you'll get less of a return than if you wait until the market is buoyant again. Also, if you put yourself in a position where you have to replace good players, you will come up against the same dynamic yourself - and with your bottom line hit, it'll be hard to use the proceeds of sales towards buying replacements. From a footballing perspective, it makes good sense to hang on to the players you already have, absorb the financial pain and wait for the whole market (and your finances) to pick up again. You can't sell your way out of the problem anyway.

 

[lysglimt]

You'd think so, but that doesn't really seem to be the case, so far? When the market is depressed, it actually makes sense to try and avoid selling players, because you'll get less of a return than if you wait until the market is buoyant again. Also, if you put yourself in a position where you have to replace good players, you will come up against the same dynamic yourself - and with your bottom line hit, it'll be hard to use the proceeds of sales towards buying replacements. From a footballing perspective, it makes good sense to hang on to the players you already have, absorb the financial pain and wait for the whole market (and your finances) to pick up again. You can't sell your way out of the problem anyway.

It makes sense to do that - if you can afford it. But if you are struggling to pay your bills - and selling your most valuable asset will give you €40 million - of course you will do it.

Take a club like Villareal (since we are apparently looking at Pau Torres) -wage to turnover has increased steadily from 63% in 2016/2017 to 96% in 2019/20. Basically everything they earn is used to pay wages. (a consequence of signing high-earners Albacer, Albiol and Moreno during the summer of 2019) - but the sale of Fornals to West Ham and a few others gave them a net profit which made them survive 19/20.

From 2019 to 2020 - their revenue dropped from €116m to €86m - their wages increased from €131m to €141m

In addition net debt has increased to €108 million for the fiscal year ending in june 2020 - and that will continue to go up.

And Villareal is not known for having poor finances - but they can't cope financially during the pandemic. They have borrowed €10 million euros and even had a net transfer profit of close to €42m - but still had a negative cash flow for 2019/2020. Unless Villareal magically have found a pot of gold in the fiscal year ending june 2021 - they will be begging for someone to sign one of their most valuable players, because they can't survive without it. They will technically be bankrupt without selling players.

So it seems you are underestimating how horribly the pandemic has struck some clubs

 

[justsomebloke]

It makes sense to do that - if you can afford it. But if you are struggling to pay your bills - and selling your most valuable asset will give you €40 million - of course you will do it.

Take a club like Villareal (since we are apparently looking at Pau Torres) -wage to turnover has increased steadily from 63% in 2016/2017 to 96% in 2019/20. Basically everything they earn is used to pay wages. (a consequence of signing high-earners Albacer, Albiol and Moreno during the summer of 2019) - but the sale of Fornals to West Ham and a few others gave them a net profit which made them survive 19/20.

From 2019 to 2020 - their revenue dropped from €116m to €86m - their wages increased from €131m to €141m

In addition net debt has increased to €108 million for the fiscal year ending in june 2020 - and that will continue to go up.

And Villareal is not known for having poor finances - but they can't cope financially during the pandemic. They have borrowed €10 million euros and even had a net transfer profit of close to €42m - but still had a negative cash flow for 2019/2020. Unless Villareal magically have found a pot of gold in the fiscal year ending june 2021 - they will be begging for someone to sign one of their most valuable players, because they can't survive without it. They will technically be bankrupt without selling players.

So it seems you are underestimating how horribly the pandemic has struck some clubs

Sure, I'm not questioning the seriousness of the economic situation, and that will become worse and less possible to sustain the longer it goes on. Like you, I'd expect that to result in an increased willingness to sell players, both to bring in money and to reduce the overwhelmingly largest cost, which is wages. That would appear to be a rational response, and the result should be a buyers market.

But, and this is my point, that is not what seems to be happening! Clubs are cutting some players loose at reduced prices, or trying to do so (Luis Suarez, Memphis Depay), but seemingly only where they've decided that the players in question are not in the club's plans, or that they won't be able to renew expiring contracts. Otherwise, the buyers market simply doesn't seem to be appearing. There's no rush of talented players at cut prices out from poorer to clubs to the clubs who can still afford to buy. And hard-hit clubs like Dortmund choose to price their best commodities out of the market, rather than capitalise on them. Or am I seeing the situation wrong?

 

[Zen86]

They are all kind of the same as in they all bored me to sleep. I’ll admit Van Gaal was probably the worst, Ole maybe the best but his probably had the best team out of the lot.

He's built the best team of the lot, you mean.

 

[lysglimt]

Sure, I'm not questioning the seriousness of the economic situation, and that will become worse and less possible to sustain the longer it goes on. Like you, I'd expect that to result in an increased willingness to sell players, both to bring in money and to reduce the overwhelmingly largest cost, which is wages. That would appear to be a rational response, and the result should be a buyers market.

But, and this is my point, that is not what seems to be happening! Clubs are cutting some players loose at reduced prices, or trying to do so (Luis Suarez, Memphis Depay), but seemingly only where they've decided that the players in question are not in the club's plans, or that they won't be able to renew expiring contracts. Otherwise, the buyers market simply doesn't seem to be appearing. There's no rush of talented players at cut prices out from poorer to clubs to the clubs who can still afford to buy. And hard-hit clubs like Dortmund choose to price their best commodities out of the market, rather than capitalise on them. Or am I seeing the situation wrong?

You might be right, but I think the next summer is the first where the financial difficulties really catch up to struggling clubs. When last season ended there had only been 4-5-6 home-matches without fans - now they have had to suffer an entire season without. And Villareal which I looked out are technically insolvent if 20/21 continued the same way 19/20 ended (which I expect it to). They were making losses of €10 million despite making over €30 million in net transfer spending. When you have revenues of below €100 million - that is really, really worrying.

But the problem is - outside of the P.L - how many can afford to sign players ? In Germany - only Bayern. In Spain - Atletico always balance the books by selling big before buying big - that leaves Barcelona and Real (and especially the former are rumoured to be struggling). In Italy probably none - at least of more expensive signings.

That leaves the Premier League. So we could have a situation where maybe 10-12 clubs in Europe can afford semi-expensive signings - and a lot more clubs badly needing a big sale. That will automatically push prices down.

 

[justsomebloke]

You might be right, but I think the next summer is the first where the financial difficulties really catch up to struggling clubs. When last season ended there had only been 4-5-6 home-matches without fans - now they have had to suffer an entire season without. And Villareal which I looked out are technically insolvent if 20/21 continued the same way 19/20 ended (which I expect it to). They were making losses of €10 million despite making over €30 million in net transfer spending. When you have revenues of below €100 million - that is really, really worrying.

But the problem is - outside of the P.L - how many can afford to sign players ? In Germany - only Bayern. In Spain - Atletico always balance the books by selling big before buying big - that leaves Barcelona and Real (and especially the former are rumoured to be struggling). In Italy probably none - at least of more expensive signings.

That leaves the Premier League. So we could have a situation where maybe 10-12 clubs in Europe can afford semi-expensive signings - and a lot more clubs badly needing a big sale. That will automatically push prices down.

It's going to be a really interesting summer window, that's for sure. I can't argue with your logic, this is how it should work. But again, if prices are pushed down, that is also an incentive to hang on to your best assets as long as you can. IF you can.

 

[Iron]

I dare to say we have been boring ever since Cristiano and Tevez left. The zombie boring football thread has appeared even during SAF last years on redcafe, still he got results especially thanks to the defence. RvP has brought the sexy back for a small period as well, but thats it. After SAF its overall just bad .

 

[Keefy18]

Clubs like Sporting and Benfica struggled before the pandemic - Italian clubs are not doing well, and apart from Real and Barcelona (who always have someone bailing them out) - which Spanish clubs aren't struggling ?

I know they are struggling, still don't see them panicking to offload players just because of the pandemic.

 

[charlenefan]

103 goals scored this season so far, anyone got the numbers of previous seasons?

 

[lysglimt]

I know they are struggling, still don't see them panicking to offload players just because of the pandemic.

If they were struggling before the pandemic - how desperate do you think they are to get funds now ?

 

[Green_Red]

We seem to have found a new vein of form since the last international break. We are playing some brilliant football at the minute. It's funny how those international breaks can make/break form.

 

[Wewinsoon]

103 goals scored this season so far, anyone got the numbers of previous seasons?

103 boring own goals if you ask some People here

 

[hubbuh]

It's been an odd season. We've scored a good number of goals but also had what feels like loads of bore draws. Waiting until the 75th minute to make a sub felt unnecessary.

 

[Dante]

I don't think we were boring. We just failed to score.

 

[paulscholes18]

Fired too many blanks this season, think that was the 8th time we have failed to score in the league.

 

[cyberman]

Fired too many blanks this season, think that was the 8th time we have failed to score in the league.

Cant forget how tough this seaon is. We are only 3/4 goals behind City.
1 midweek off all season is inhuman.

 

[devilish]

McT-Fred combo is protecting our defence alot but it turns us incredibly boring especially when James is also playing.

 

[Irwin99]

Not really fair today since Leeds didn't show any attacking intent. Style of football isn't the best though but, if it gets results then it's ok.

 

[Longshanks]

Fired too many blanks this season, think that was the 8th time we have failed to score in the league.

Yep, crying out for a world class striker. Cavani is great but cant play every game and I think he didnt start alot of these 0-0's this season. I believe it's our most important posistion to sort out this summer. Hopefully we splash some cash and get some real quality in the number 9 position.

 

[Hammondo]

Cant forget how tough this seaon is. We are only 3/4 goals behind City.
1 midweek off all season is inhuman.

Tough season? It's a pretty poor league in general this season. All the normal big clubs have played poorly aside from city.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Cant forget how tough this seaon is. We are only 3/4 goals behind City.
1 midweek off all season is inhuman.

Love how differently you seem to react to the notion that United are a bit meh when it comes to playing football. You even posted City are dull as feck on the day they beat Southampton 5-2.

 

[cyberman]

Tough season? It's a pretty poor league in general this season. All the normal big clubs have played poorly aside from city.

City have played poorly as well? Especially atracking wise.

 

[TheReligion]

Love how differently you seem to react to the notion that United are a bit meh when it comes to playing football. You even posted City are dull as feck on the day they beat Southampton 5-2.

You're posting on a United forum, in the United section, in this thread at half time of your own teams cup final.

Jesus wept.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

You're posting on a United forum, in the United section, in this thread at half time of your own teams cup final.

Jesus wept.

Sorry about that, won't happen next time.

 

[cyberman]

Love how differently you seem to react to the notion that United are a bit meh when it comes to playing football. You even posted City are dull as feck on the day they beat Southampton 5-2.

Doesnt matter how many City score, i find their way of playing boring and uninteresting.
One point doesnt lead to the other. City playing with 7 midfielders is uninspiring.

 

[TheReligion]

Sorry about that, won't happen next time.

No wonder your club struggle to sell their allocation.

 

[Random Task]

It's been an odd season. We've scored a good number of goals but also had what feels like loads of bore draws. Waiting until the 75th minute to make a sub felt unnecessary.

The opposition played a large part in the 0-0 draw today.

After the battering his side received at OT earlier in the season, Bielsa decided to go with a more pragmatic approach this time around. They were far less attack-minded and far more aggressive in the tackle - borderline dirty even. It made for a dull game in the end.

 

[Hammondo]

City have played poorly as well? Especially atracking wise.

Yea but defensively they are doing well.

 

[croadyman]

Hate to say this but think the scousers will be more up for the game next Sunday than us, fully expecting our thoughts to be all about the second leg with Roma and then there is the nothing four league games left to play for afterwards

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Doesnt matter how many City score, i find their way of playing boring and uninteresting.
One point doesnt lead to the other. City playing with 7 midfielders is uninspiring.

Their form has dropped quite a bit the last few weeks but from Xmas they've been by far the most entertaining side in the league. I could understand if it's not your cup of tea but calling it boring and uninteresting seems a bit harsh.

 

[Fahad Jawaid]

I think by now Ole should realize that by playing Mcfred, we must have front four consisting of both Pogba and Bruno while the other two shall be anyone except James. We can't expect to have three/four absolute liabilities in front 6 (Mcfred and James) Plus Rashford, who blows hot and cold depending on his form and fitness. This results in us not able to put a sustained pressure on any side, with players constantly giving the ball away, the momentum is lost.

I think we are also missing a trick, we could field VDB alongside Mctominay and Pogba as a LW, Bruno as 10 and Greenwood RW and Rashford/Cavani ST.

This formation would consist of VDB, Pogba and Greenwood who normally has secure touches and rarely give it away, Further they also provide the creative element which is sorely lacked once only Bruno is playing and it becomes easy to take it out of the match. In this formation, the only two who has the tendency to give it away are Rashford and Bruno but we need these as they make difference to our team.

Compare this to our team today Fred, Bruno, Rashford and James all give it away, thus we barely look like a EPL side let alone top 2 side.

I think we should play this front 6:

VDB Mctominay
Greenwood Bruno Pogba
Rashford/Cavani

This could also be switched to 4-3-3, with Bruno as a false 9 and Pogba playing in the same role as his role at Juve.

VDB Mctonimay Pogba
Greenwood Bruno Cavani/Rashford

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

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How do Man United not have a striker or player who has scored 10 goals in the league for four years. No wonder why we are utter shite.

 

[GazTheLegend]

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How do Man United not have a striker or player who has scored 10 goals in the league for four years. No wonder why we are utter shite.

To be fair Rashford has done so for the past 3 seasons so he's only got to do it again next year (which he will). 17 goals last season was an insanely good haul, really. Especially considering we started the season with a midfield of Lingard, Matic and Pogba injured for half the season.

2018–19[322]	Premier League	33	10	4	1	0	0	10[c]	2	—	47	13
2019–20[119]	Premier League	31	17	4	0	3	4	6[a]	1	—	44	22
2020–21[323]	Premier League	33	10	3	1	4	1	10[e]	8	—	50	20

 

[el3mel]

Doesnt matter how many City score, i find their way of playing boring and uninteresting.
One point doesnt lead to the other. City playing with 7 midfielders is uninspiring.

I'll kill to see United go into a final and absolutely destroy the opposition the way the boring and uninteresting City did today.

 

[Tyrion]

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How do Man United not have a striker or player who has scored 10 goals in the league for four years. No wonder why we are utter shite.

Rashford is inconsistent, Martial is inconsistent and not very good and they've been our forwards over that time. In 3 years time, Bruno could be on there.

 

[cyberman]

I'll kill to see United go into a final and absolutely destroy the opposition the way the boring and uninteresting City did today.

One game means very little.