Were not boring 100% of the time,but there are a lot of halves were we are.
Boring, boring Man United
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But then since we're not going to be playing nice football it does beg the question, why not just get a pragmatic manager who has a more proven track record of success like Conte or Allegri?
The whole point with Ole was that he understood the "United way", but if that's out of the window then what's the differentiator between him and a Conte for example? Both play pragmatic, but one seemingly guarantees trophies.
This is hypothetical btw, I don't actually want to swap Ole for Conte. We've seen some very good football from Ole in the past, so I still have hope the football will improve.
United historically have always played counter attacking football with pacey wingers, we're trying to emulate that in the football we play now but apparently it's relying in individuals or some bollocks to that effect.
We tried pragmatic under Jose and it was dreadful, we completely bypassed the midfield most matches and this place had a collective meltdown, and we won stuff. However the players decided they didn't want to play that kind of football at a club like Manchester United
Agreed. Everyone, from fans to players to staff, was on the same page that we were going the wrong way under Jose.
And that's what makes this season so disappointing. We were in such good shape post lockdown. We had an established technical first 11, with a lethal front 3, 2 potent offensive midfielders and an attacking fullback. At that point it seemed we just needed depth and a replacement for an ageing Matic in order to win while playing some really good stuff. It seemed like we were really building something, but it's all gone out the window this season.
If we can get back to that level somehow then I'm sure there will be no complaints from anyone on the forum regarding the style of football, but for this season there's no question that we seem to have regressed stylistically..
Oh I don't. I mostly think of you as a troll.
Not sure where you pulled that stat from?
Arsenal yesterday 11 shots on goal and 2 on target.
United last 3 games 37 shots on goal, 15 on target.
Games United played well in (IMO)
Premier league
Newcastle (A)
Everton (A)
Southampton (A) 2nd half mostly
West Ham (A) 2nd half mostly
Leicester (A) let down by two defensive errors
Leeds (H)
Southampton (H)
Everton (H) especially 1st half
Man City (A)
FA Cup
Liverpool (H)
League Cup
Brighton (A)
Everton (A)
Champions league
Both games against PSG
RB leipzig (H)
Basaksehir (H)
Europa league
Sociedad (A)
Then was many other matches where I thought controled displays (never in any danger of losing) performances was produced Burnley (A) Milan (A) West Ham (H) etc..
This.
Under LvG we played 76 games in the league scoring 111 goals, an average of slightly less than 1.5 goals scored each game. The last 2 seasons under OGS we have scored 124 goals in 68 matches, which is about 10-12 goals more pr season. We scored 49 goals in one season under LvG...that is incredibly poor. Free flowing football haha
Im happy to win ugly especially this year. Everyone looks really leggy but even if we were fresh If we want to step it up and actually challenge we still need a serious injection of quality. We need to find an easier way of beating the bus teams when they rarely step out of their half. I reckon a natural striker and winger are needed either way to freshen up the team and make some new combinations.
We have a very promising platform to build upon but we won’t get there if we have a similar window to last summer which I fear could very well happen. Maybe the lads from last summer can play more of a part next year but that’s just such a weird enough way to operate!
And somehow this team was always able to score 89 and 86 goals respectively in Fergie's last 2 league campaigns, numbers we haven't even come close to under any manager after his retirement.
We're not boring, but we aren't as dominant as we should be. We saw after project restart what dominating games looks like. We haven't been able to replicate those performances and its showing in our home form. We are again in a position where we aren't scoring goals when in control of games, but are better when space opens up in more even contests. It's a good platform to have and in truth exposes the fact that we should be playing games at a much quicker tempo when we are in control as we have the players to take advantage of that.
The question becomes, why do we slowly build up in those games?
I don't think Ole plans for that. He constantly insinuates that he wants a quicker tempo. Unfortunately for us, when we do quicken the tempo, our midfield doesn't have the technical ability to make those quick transitions, pass out of difficult presses or dictate tempo, so then play it back to our defence ( usually Maguire), who is tasked with holding and moving the ball across the back line , as he seems to be the only one comfortable with having possession of the ball in that area of the pitch. As a result of this, he is forced to become a defensive playmaker, trying to get the ball to our attackers high up the pitch from such a deep position. Of course, as a defender, he doesn't have the consistent long passing range to pull that off and since our team is so congested in the middle already due to snail pace we are already playing at, Maguire is forced to keep moving the ball slow. When we do get the ball to midfield due to a good pass from one of our defenders, they usually lack the first touch to keep that ball in midfield ( around 40 percent success rate), which either leads to a turnover in possession or a restart of the already slow build up play, with our attackers ( front 3 and Bruno) operating very far away from our defence and the ball. Sometimes we get lucky, and Luke Shaw has the will and drive to advance the ball down the flanks and create great combination plays with Bruno or Rashford, sometimes we also get lucky on the right, when Mason plays there with that, but usually when with James, nothing comes down that right hand side outside of a counter attack.
The issues:
a. Our midfielders aren't comfortable in possession and moving the ball out of the intial press to force defences deep or take advantage of them not playing deep.
b. Too many attackers are pushed high up the pitch. We aren't City, we don't have midfielders that can take that level of pressure in possession ( and are supported by full backs). We need more players to support the build up play.
c. We lack complete attacking play off the right hand flank.
Due to these issues, we lack penetration or support in our build up play, so struggle to craft chances. We don't even have the option of playing the ball out wide for our wingers to craft chances individually ( which I personally believe is a strategy that Ole wants to employ). Our right wingers are not creative and Rashford's recent injury crisis means that he doesn't drive as much as he usually would. Right now, we only create chances when Bruno creates the time and space to open up the defence. Sometimes when Pogba plays, his aggressive attacking play can help us push back the opposition defence and create long shot opportunities. Outside of these and set pieces, we aren't creating chances.
The question becomes, why do we slowly build up in those games?
I don't think Ole plans for that. He constantly insinuates that he wants a quicker tempo. Unfortunately for us, when we do quicken the tempo, our midfield doesn't have the technical ability to make those quick transitions, pass out of difficult presses or dictate tempo, so then play it back to our defence ( usually Maguire), who is tasked with holding and moving the ball across the back line , as he seems to be the only one comfortable with having possession of the ball in that area of the pitch. As a result of this, he is forced to become a defensive playmaker, trying to get the ball to our attackers high up the pitch from such a deep position. Of course, as a defender, he doesn't have the consistent long passing range to pull that off and since our team is so congested in the middle already due to snail pace we are already playing at, Maguire is forced to keep moving the ball slow. When we do get the ball to midfield due to a good pass from one of our defenders, they usually lack the first touch to keep that ball in midfield ( around 40 percent success rate), which either leads to a turnover in possession or a restart of the already slow build up play, with our attackers ( front 3 and Bruno) operating very far away from our defence and the ball. Sometimes we get lucky, and Luke Shaw has the will and drive to advance the ball down the flanks and create great combination plays with Bruno or Rashford, sometimes we also get lucky on the right, when Mason plays there with that, but usually when with James, nothing comes down that right hand side outside of a counter attack.
The issues:
a. Our midfielders aren't comfortable in possession and moving the ball out of the intial press to force defences deep or take advantage of them not playing deep.
b. Too many attackers are pushed high up the pitch. We aren't City, we don't have midfielders that can take that level of pressure in possession ( and are supported by full backs). We need more players to support the build up play.
c. We lack complete attacking play off the right hand flank.
Due to these issues, we lack penetration or support in our build up play, so struggle to craft chances. We don't even have the option of playing the ball out wide for our wingers to craft chances individually ( which I personally believe is a strategy that Ole wants to employ). Our right wingers are not creative and Rashford's recent injury crisis means that he doesn't drive as much as he usually would. Right now, we only create chances when Bruno creates the time and space to open up the defence. Sometimes when Pogba plays, his aggressive attacking play can help us push back the opposition defence and create long shot opportunities. Outside of these and set pieces, we aren't creating chances.
Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Berbatov and Van Persie probably had quite a bit to do with the goals we scored.
Nice. Taking credit away from Sir Alex due to the teams he built. Love it. Not sure where Ronaldo and Tevez were during his last 2 seasons. Or Berbatov for that matter. So 3/5 you got wrong it seems.
What are you talking about? Compare his final team to the one we currently have. How many players get in the first 11?Yeah, those two world class strikers had nothing to do with the goals we scored, all Sir Alex...
Firstly this is the new generation of United fans who instead of crediting a manager for the team he builds and players he brings in/improves, manages to stumble over his own crooked feet and discredit him for it. Secondly, to even compare Sir Alex with Ole and to try and take credit away form Sir Alex is a little pathetic. This is a man who elevated his side and the greatest footballer manager of all time, and on the other side, Ole. FFS.
Yeah, those two world class strikers had nothing to do with the goals we scored, all Sir Alex...
Also did Ronaldo, Berbatov and Tevez feature in Sir Alex's last two seasons?
Yeah, those two world class strikers had nothing to do with the goals we scored, all Sir Alex...
When you start calling out fans for something while you did the same thing just under different manager.
City in the League Cup was a good even contest for the first 50 or so minutes against a rejuvenated City side.
PSG was a proper Utd European night at OT but the result went against us. I'd liken that game to the Bayern defeat in 2010 where naivety and inexperience cost us moreso than them actually being better than us.
I can't believe this thread is going on for 5 pages btw.
People asking why are we boring and then not twigging on to the fact that we usually have one of McFred starting in the most pivotal position on the pitch in terms of tempo setting. Or that we've played more games than anyone else since the restart with no break. Or that we're essentially still using the same starting XI that we had last season which most of this fanbase were saying weren't up to it at the turn of last year.
Come on lads, it's not rocket science.
People asking why are we boring and then not twigging on to the fact that we usually have one of McFred starting in the most pivotal position on the pitch in terms of tempo setting. Or that we've played more games than anyone else since the restart with no break. Or that we're essentially still using the same starting XI that we had last season which most of this fanbase were saying weren't up to it at the turn of last year.
Come on lads, it's not rocket science.
Very good post. How do you propose we solve this issues and a) would just signing a defensive midfielder who is comfortable on the ball and playing alongside Pogba help with the midfield. b) signing Sancho, a fitter Rashford and a more settled Diallo I guess should help with using the wings for creating chances but then we also need a CB and ST and there definitely wouldn't be enough funds to pursue all that, so which positions do you think we should prioritize to give us a better chance of competing for the title next season.
For me I believe we are better off fixing the chances creation and midfield control issues than the defence and goal scoring ones to compete for the epl because I think that is primarily where City are miles ahead of us and would turn all the draws against the average teams to comfortable wins. To be among the favorites for the UCL and compete with the big boys we probably will need to address the CB and ST issues but that can come later.
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I don’t think most United fans take any credit away from SAF. His records and achievements are there for eternity. Ole is always being compared to our previous managers Jose and LvG and yes SAF. If we want to talk about getting back to top then we will naturally also compare him to the man, under who we were at the top.
People bring up SAF or even Klopp and their records when discussing Ole, other people then point out for example that Ole had a better record in his first X games than Klopp, the original posters then get offended even by the mere thought of others comparing those managers to Ole even though they started the comparison.
People can’t just bring other managers into discussions to discredit Ole.
At times it is also allowed to bring them into discussions to credit Ole.
In terms of our last season under SAF both points are valid:
- Despite a midfield of an average age of 34 or something and rather mediocre wingers we still created lots of chances (SAF always knew how to attack)
- We had peak RvP who was miles better than anything we have in the attack right now.
idk having good old memories of games like United 7 roma 1 makes it difficult to not be bored on the continual games where it seems at end most agree we played poorly but got the result at least.
Pick any random ten.
I am not sure how many other teams even in la liga or serie a are playing entertaining football right now. City on their days yes but even they have been not that scintillating off late. So to just pretend as if we are the only team playing below par football is not correct. In fact, I will say we have been playing much better stuff than many other sides in europe.
There is a section on the caf lately that have been disingenuous to anything that resembles a critique to this current United side.
This team is not fun to watch. We do get a surprise every now and then with games like City, RBL and Leeds but more often than not we're not a great watch.
Do people think threads comparing Ole's football to LVG and Mourinho are just made for no reason. If this team played attractive football, no one would accuse of of being boring. From a personal point of view, I've zoned out of games as much as I did under our last two managers.
The true mark of an entertaining side is rival fans tuning in to watch. We have many rival fans on here, I can't imagine any of them derive any pleasure in watching our football.
This team is not fun to watch. We do get a surprise every now and then with games like City, RBL and Leeds but more often than not we're not a great watch.
Do people think threads comparing Ole's football to LVG and Mourinho are just made for no reason. If this team played attractive football, no one would accuse of of being boring. From a personal point of view, I've zoned out of games as much as I did under our last two managers.
The true mark of an entertaining side is rival fans tuning in to watch. We have many rival fans on here, I can't imagine any of them derive any pleasure in watching our football.
You're the numpty that tried to compare a boring performance vs Grenada in the EL against conservative performances under Fergie against Europe's elite, whilst mopping up trophies and playing good football most weeks. Laughable.
What about last season? We were just as bad then. The excuses are tiring and endless. Nobody is buying it. There would at least be a glimmer of great football if that's what we were actually capable of. The players aren't just knackered every game.
Yes our football is not the most eye pleasing but I would still have this brand than whatever LvG did with us. That was just watching paint dry.
We're talking about the likes of Brighton here. They get the lead and park the bus. Of course we "take control".
I don't even know what you're saying anymore, it's just a string of pure bollocks this post that's completely wide of the mark regarding anything I said or implied.
Well, what you said and what you implied was utter garbage so there's that.
If you want to know whether they are bad players or no then you should ask yourself whether our playing style right now is bad or no in your view. Our playing style right now suits those players he inherited. Since I don't think our playing style is bad so my view on our players are also the same because we are getting the best out of those majority players right now with the system we are playing.
That's not enough to come into conclusion that there is no sign that he wants to evolve because football is played based on 10 outfield players, 1 player doesn't turn the other 9 to gain the same ability.
We should be better in possession and putting pressure on sides that defend with 10 men. I dont see improvements in both areas. If we improve there, better football and trophies will come.
I am not discrediting any opinions that we can be boring to watch, but I just want to understand why posters expect more from a side that is deep into a congested season with some key personnel either injured, playing with injury or having just returned from injury?
I also ask these posters whether our football is more cumbersome to watch than say, Tuchel or Klopp or Jose. And if not, which sides play better football than we do outside of City? Leicester or West Ham? Teams below us that have also conceded more and scored less than we have over the course of the season? Juventus who look often look torrid? Dortmund who are up and down? Atletico who now look to be throwing away the league and are immensely dull to watch? Which teams is it that you think we should be capable of playing like whilst maintaining our form in results?
It's so easy to beat your chest and say "we're Man Utd, we should be playing xyz type of football" but this season is pretty fecked up by way fixture congestion. Players get little to no rest, and a lot of them are not playing at 100%. Aside from the deep squads who can throw in Mahrez when Bernando isn't playing well, who can turn to Jesus when Augero is gone, or chuck on Foden to help Sterling etc.. everyone plays a bit shite this season.
I also ask these posters whether our football is more cumbersome to watch than say, Tuchel or Klopp or Jose. And if not, which sides play better football than we do outside of City? Leicester or West Ham? Teams below us that have also conceded more and scored less than we have over the course of the season? Juventus who look often look torrid? Dortmund who are up and down? Atletico who now look to be throwing away the league and are immensely dull to watch? Which teams is it that you think we should be capable of playing like whilst maintaining our form in results?
It's so easy to beat your chest and say "we're Man Utd, we should be playing xyz type of football" but this season is pretty fecked up by way fixture congestion. Players get little to no rest, and a lot of them are not playing at 100%. Aside from the deep squads who can throw in Mahrez when Bernando isn't playing well, who can turn to Jesus when Augero is gone, or chuck on Foden to help Sterling etc.. everyone plays a bit shite this season.
I personally don't think we need a striker. I think people don't yet see how the build up and lack of chance creation affects our strikers more than any other players. Greenwood/Martial in rotation is fine ( so that we don't spend too much). I only want us to sign a centre back because I think you need good aerial ability to play in England, Lindelof doesn't have that and it affects us dealing with long balls ( ben white would be fine and cheap).
A good defensive midfielder that has a good first touch, is comfortable on the ball, has good positioning and can pass is what we need, even as a Pogba replacement. Having that player would help us more than any other signing.
Any of Sancho or Grealish would be good. Personally I prefer Grealish, he has so much creativity and is outstanding at holding the ball.
Just because its Brighton doesnt mean its boring? The likes of Brighton are teams that fans pretend we struggle against with low blocks despite winning so many games after giving them head starts.
I honestly think fans have been waiting for these big, decisive moments to the point winning is just getting in the way. We need to win 5-0 or routinely lose to finally answer the Ole question. Comfortably winning is just getting in the way.
I think a good deal of claims about other teams' football comes as a result of having to watch them very infrequently, and having no emotional attachment to the clubs in question. If they play energetic, pressing football leaving spaces and ship goals it is "entertaining" football where they "brought a lot to the game" and a sign of the managers unyielding attacking philosophy. Nobody is particularly bothered by the wider ramifications in less favourable outings, except the fans of those clubs. They are in quite a comfortable position in terms of what is expected and how people analyse them, so long as they do not get relegated.
Our manager, whoever he happens to be at any particular time is held to far more rigorous standards than that. The idea is we should be competing right alongside an outstanding City AND controlling most of our matches via attacking football. It is not enough to lose a game and say the football was attacking, as the results also have to stack up with the relentless consistency of those we are expected to compete against otherwise other questions surrounding the manager are asked. It is no longer a question of aesthetic quality but one of suitability for the job.
The difference in expectation is so large as to make such comparisons difficult. Unless you are really prepared to dig into the football of Potter and Bielsa, the results attained, the times when it has gone horribly wrong and what they are actually achieving relative to their squads in a far more sophisticated way then they are inevitably shallow interpretations. If I was to be cynical it looks more like a convenient stick to beat the manager with than a genuine point.
Even Ferguson recognised the times in which it wasn't about the beauty of the football. We had plenty of seasons where we were criticised for so called "zombie" football and an inhibited approach in Europe. This was generally with better squads relative to our rivals than we have now. The question is at what point is it fair to say the manager is on the wrong side of this balance? Clearly, if you win something then much is forgiven. If you conspire to take the whole club down with you in Jose fashion then the park the bus approach is not well received. At the moment, I would argue that the manager is just about getting it right. He is getting enough out of this squad in a difficult season. The football is far from perfect and so are the results, but neither has slipped to concerning levels, suggesting there is a degree of pragmatism present. But while there is also improvement as a whole in terms of results, recruitment, and the spirit of our squad reflected in being a tough side to beat, I remain quite comfortable with the football I'm seeing.
Our manager, whoever he happens to be at any particular time is held to far more rigorous standards than that. The idea is we should be competing right alongside an outstanding City AND controlling most of our matches via attacking football. It is not enough to lose a game and say the football was attacking, as the results also have to stack up with the relentless consistency of those we are expected to compete against otherwise other questions surrounding the manager are asked. It is no longer a question of aesthetic quality but one of suitability for the job.
The difference in expectation is so large as to make such comparisons difficult. Unless you are really prepared to dig into the football of Potter and Bielsa, the results attained, the times when it has gone horribly wrong and what they are actually achieving relative to their squads in a far more sophisticated way then they are inevitably shallow interpretations. If I was to be cynical it looks more like a convenient stick to beat the manager with than a genuine point.
Even Ferguson recognised the times in which it wasn't about the beauty of the football. We had plenty of seasons where we were criticised for so called "zombie" football and an inhibited approach in Europe. This was generally with better squads relative to our rivals than we have now. The question is at what point is it fair to say the manager is on the wrong side of this balance? Clearly, if you win something then much is forgiven. If you conspire to take the whole club down with you in Jose fashion then the park the bus approach is not well received. At the moment, I would argue that the manager is just about getting it right. He is getting enough out of this squad in a difficult season. The football is far from perfect and so are the results, but neither has slipped to concerning levels, suggesting there is a degree of pragmatism present. But while there is also improvement as a whole in terms of results, recruitment, and the spirit of our squad reflected in being a tough side to beat, I remain quite comfortable with the football I'm seeing.
Leeds play suicidal football, and our last match against them we showed how much better we are if a team wants to approach us like that. Give me a break with Brighton too
The problem is fans seem to think that our glory days comprised of nothing but Ronaldo hat tricks and highlight reels constantly. So they think now we are dreadful to watch compared to how amazing we were in every match in the SAF era. No one takes into account that pretty much all teams have crap boring games, especially if certain players aren’t fit. Add into that the fact that football in general is so tactical based and structured compared to the old days. Just go watch a game from the 90’s and look at how much space there is on the pitch compared to the top UCL games these days between two great teams.
Yes we are quite terrible to watch when our players aren’t executing properly, especially without our best XI because we already lack technicality in the midfield and defense. However in full flow agaisnt a team giving us space it’s great to watch. Comparing us to Leeds is just idiotic considering we’d probably be worse off results wise even if we entertained the moaning fans a bit more with how they play.
Yes we are quite terrible to watch when our players aren’t executing properly, especially without our best XI because we already lack technicality in the midfield and defense. However in full flow agaisnt a team giving us space it’s great to watch. Comparing us to Leeds is just idiotic considering we’d probably be worse off results wise even if we entertained the moaning fans a bit more with how they play.