So he couldn't have said his mind in UK? Hehad to go all the way to Qatar for that? Keep making excuses, you are all fecking hypocrites.
No. Boycotting is not going to said country you don't like and are against their rules. He could have stayed in UK and spoke his mind like millions are doing.
He didnt say anything about a boycott. He could have done either but he chose to go and speak out about the aspects he didn't like. No big deal.
Insulted them how? What did I say that was insulting. Please explain? calling him a hypocrite? Wow that's an insult now
. Funny HYPOCRITES!I suppose he could have but he chose to do it in Qatar on national TV which might have a bit more impact. If he stayed in the UK I'm not sure what platform he would have been using to convey the same message.
This word is bandied about so much in these threads that I'm genuinely starting to wonder if some people don't actually understand what it means.
This has nothing to do with people insulting players.Insulted them how? What did I say that was insulting. Please explain? calling him a hypocrite? Wow that's an insult now
Our players have been called cnuts, stupid, dumb, brainless, useless etc and it's all allowed on here but calling a poster hypocrite is an insult
Does the actual number really matter though?
Suspicious about what exactly?
This is a more balanced article rather than the sensationalist guardian article which often gets cited
That was from the Guardian and it definitely erred on the side of sensationalism. There are many discussions about the numbers and numbers always vary, so I rarely take them as anything other than indicators there is an issue. Does it matter if it was half that or even a tenth. It highlighted the lack of rights the workers receive.
It matters. It may sound inhumane but if 3 workers died in a span of ten years that very different than hundred or thousands dying which would indicate a systemic problem.
The extent of the issue matters though. As someone who has lived in the middle east I want to know where these the usual tough conditions for workers that you see all over third world countries and developing economies?
The point is you can’t specifically say anyone (bar the three official deaths) died specifically working on WC infrastructure. From what is reported, the total number of migrant deaths Qatar officially has had in the space of time between the WC award and 2020 is actually over 15k but, again, no one can specially say who was working on a World Cup site.
No worries didn't seem dismissive to me. As I said earlier theres plenty wrong with this world cup and Qatar as is than for us to rely on weaker stars
so you expect them to give up their beliefs to please others? I am in no way saying that Qatar should not be questions, for the purpose of revealing the truth, about important matters such as immigrant workers losing their lives in the process. However, to come here and say Qatar should bin all their beliefs and laws to satisfy others is just wrong.
All western countries have regular pro-palestine demonstrations. There was one in portugal just a few months ago, another one late last year.
The council in Dublin flew a Palestinian flag over our GPO (hugely important historical building and site of our revolution) for a year a few years back.
Great stuff. One major issue here is that people asking "wow why are these people online so vocal NOW? such hypocrisy" don't realize that the most vocal people are engaged with different issues all the time. They get a perception that some people are exaggerating now when in fact it's them who haven't been paying attention the rest of the time.
It's really infuriating, like I edited above, it's literally weaponising compassion.
i do not want to take anything away from those demonstrations, but an annual demonstration here and there by small groups does not compare to what is happening now with Qatar. People get displaced, executed, imprisoned but still do not get a fraction of the support the LGBT community is receiving. I really don’t want to take the discussion to another issue, but just wanted to highlight a fact that is so clear is ugly
i recall that. It was great to see such support. Nonetheless, this is one country (with all due respect) taking a stand. I really have never seen the world going all against what happens to Palestinians.
did it start with the armband? Or Qatar asking LGBT community to show respect to the country’s laws when they’re there. Let’s get the facts correct. Please do correct me if I’m wrong.
What is happening now in qatar? I haven't seen any mass demonstrations? It's been basically qatar doing whatever they want and people pointing out how shitty the situation is being accused of hypocrisy right left and center. Compared to what qatar does, the reaction has been absurdly tame.
There is huge global sympathy with Palestine. Much more activist than any real action in Qatar.
i really wish this was true, though sympathy is not enough for what is happening there.
Sympathy is not enough, nobody said it was. You brought up Palestine as an example of people not caring, but many do. We also care about oppressed in Qatar. Oppression is oppression.
We have the Ukraine president addressing the NZ parliament sometime in the next week. The immediate reaction to that was a push to get the Palestinian leaders to also address our parliament. There really is huge support for Palestine around the world, we have regular protests here supporting them.
sympathy is fair enough. You are right. This is the most some people can do. I agree.
Big if mate. And personally it would still be 3 too many for me if they happened because people were being forced to work in unsafe conditions.
If I'd just pulled my opinion out of my arse I'd be in good company on here but no. The Guardian death numbers were obviously sensationalist, but as I said there's no way of knowing the real numbers because of the way Qatar themselves are handling these deaths. The treatment of the workers in Qatar is something I've been following for years. My opinion is based on the many reports form the likes of Amnesty International and Human rights watch that details the working conditions over there that people are being forced to work in. They also monitor the sheer amount of deaths that are seemingly due to natural causes which the Qatari government don't seem to investigate. That also don't seem to track with what they should be for a country that has a very good health care system. Here's are some links that detail this and the working conditions.
is this the word of the day? I am not mate. Compassion does not help the cause anyway! I respect the demonstrations for any noble cause. But is it enough? Is it loud enough? Is it as “aggressive”as what is happening now?
I think that's directed primarily at the Media and the FAs. We all know there is no way they'd get vocal about injustices committed primarily by Western powers. I don't remember Western media going anywhere near this kind of bashing of Israel when they covered the 2019 Eurovision. The only delegation that dared do a gesture was Iceland's, and they certainly didn't get any support in the western MSM.
In my fist post in this thread I mentioned that there should be an investigation about whether immigrant workers were killed in the process. For the sake of the truth, no matter what it is.
naaa. Won’t continue talking to you. You’re way below my level
No I don't expect an entire country to change their beliefs, especially when a lot of those beliefs come from religious indoctrination. I did however expect Qatar to be more welcoming to other cultures seeing as they're putting their country on the world stage. Their attitude seems to be "our way or the highway" which is fine, it's their country and they can do what they want.
As things stands, Qatar doesn't have laws against rainbow flags. So preventing fans and even some journalists from taking some rainbow symbols into stadiums, which seems to have happened repeatedly, is not keeping the law strictly speaking. It's doubling down on censorship.
Out of interest have you heard anyone say Qatari nationals are one of the groups being oppressed by the Qatati government?
