I think that's directed primarily at the Media and the FAs. We all know there is no way they'd get vocal about injustices committed primarily by Western powers. I don't remember Western media going anywhere near this kind of bashing of Israel when they covered the 2019 Eurovision. The only delegation that dared do a gesture was Iceland's, and they certainly didn't get any support in the western MSM.
Boycott The Qatar World Cup?
- Thread starter OldSchoolManc
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's emphatic 4-1 win over Chelsea at Old Trafford and celebrate Manchester United being back in the Champions League. They also discuss United Women, takeover latest and transfer rumours before previewing the FA Cup Final vs. Manchester City.
What the ever living shit are you even talking about…? You’re completely wrong.
What are the LGBT community doing that’s disrespecting qatar’s laws!? Please specify.
How does anything that’s kicking off there have ANYTHING at all to do with the LGBT community’s behaviour? Again, please be specific.
How have they overstepped the mark?
At this point, literally all of this fallout is about qatar censoring free speech.
I’ve not even heard from a single gay person there - as qatar wanted their voices have been completely shut down.
In my fist post in this thread I mentioned that there should be an investigation about whether immigrant workers were killed in the process. For the sake of the truth, no matter what it is.
as for LGBT, i still think people should just respect Qatar’s laws which stem from religious beliefs
Insulting another member
naaa. Won’t continue talking to you. You’re way below my level
No I don't expect an entire country to change their beliefs, especially when a lot of those beliefs come from religious indoctrination. I did however expect Qatar to be more welcoming to other cultures seeing as they're putting their country on the world stage. Their attitude seems to be "our way or the highway" which is fine, it's their country and they can do what they want.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say regarding LGBT folks getting upset. Should they accept being being told that their sexuality is wrong?
As others have pointed out, there are pro-palestine marches and protests all over the western world. This is a thread about Qatar though.
I'm not sure how human rights could be subjective?? If you accept the fact that people of all race, gender, and sexuality are equal then surely human rights are universal and completely objective.
Personally, I think human rights are more important than any sport or game. I think a lot of people feel the same which is why there's so much discussion around things not football related.
As things stands, Qatar doesn't have laws against rainbow flags. So preventing fans and even some journalists from taking some rainbow symbols into stadiums, which seems to have happened repeatedly, is not keeping the law strictly speaking. It's doubling down on censorship.
Out of interest have you heard anyone say Qatari nationals are one of the groups being oppressed by the Qatati government?
as a palestinian, i just wanna chime in in regards to this mysterious widespread palestinian sympathy(whatever that means?) in the west! where is it again?
how did this so called "sympathy" ever change anything on the ground? all we can notice is a full on israeli impunity provided by the west.
western establishment, governments, mainstream media and what have you are anything but pro or sympathetic towards palestinians.
if people here hate when the palestinian plight used as "whataboutism", then they also shouldn't use this bigfoot-esque sympathy to derail any discourse regarding western hegemonic rule, no?
also, from my own anecdotal experience, the vast majority of the palestinian activism in the west comes from minorities and people with immigrant background.
how did this so called "sympathy" ever change anything on the ground? all we can notice is a full on israeli impunity provided by the west.
western establishment, governments, mainstream media and what have you are anything but pro or sympathetic towards palestinians.
if people here hate when the palestinian plight used as "whataboutism", then they also shouldn't use this bigfoot-esque sympathy to derail any discourse regarding western hegemonic rule, no?
also, from my own anecdotal experience, the vast majority of the palestinian activism in the west comes from minorities and people with immigrant background.
i appreciate your rational view of things, i really do. You understand that these laws are based on religious views. people may like it or not, but some things can not be accepted because they are not accepted by religion. People should just acknowledge that, like you said, it’s their country.
also, look, i mentioned palestine as an example. I was accused by some to be “weaponising compassion” whatever that means! You are right, the thread is about the world cup. It was just an example.
i probably mis-read the post which said “oppressed in Qatar”.
You’re view is that the LGBT community is oppressed, Qatar’s view is that they want people to respect their culture.
Yeah I dont know what weaponising compassion means either.
I should also add that I don't accept religion as a valid defense against critisism of oppressive laws.
Religion and state should always be kept separate. Stories written over 2000 years ago have no place influencing government policies and how people live their lives today.
It is so sad and embarrassing how so many people are happy to attend the world cup just because they want to enjoy a 'game', when the tournament was only held in Qatar due to massive corruption with FIFA, not to mention the human rights issues.
I don't understand why people are happy to ignore issues as long as they can watch a game about a bag of air being kicked around.
I don't understand why people are happy to ignore issues as long as they can watch a game about a bag of air being kicked around.
i disagree with that. “Oppressive laws”. “Stories written”? Disagree.
but on this point, let’s agree to disagree.
Yes… reading our exchange, clearly it is me who is beneath you.
I’ve asked you what exactly the LGBT community have actually done to disrespect qatar’s ‘values’ and you can’t answer, so are reduced to insulting me.
Interesting question to ask on a football forum.
I understand your point but obviously not everyone is gonna be highly outraged by social and political issues and these things are pretty much endless everywhere. Bit harsh to blame people for just getting on with things they enjoy especially after the last two three odd years. At the end of the day we are just consuming one more product that is gonna end up making money for filthy cnuts something we are guilty of most of the time.
It's basically that solidarity with or compassion for the migrant workers and LGBT community has been taken as a slight against Islam, or non Europeans and furthermore isn't sincere but motivated by hate so it's not actually compassion but an attack, or weapon. Weaponised.
It's woven into the accusations of selective or agenda driven outrage and the vague shouts of hypocrisy.
I accept we may not agree and I don't want to tell you what to think. What do you disagree with? Laws that punish people for their sexuality are oppressive.
How would you describe religious texts? They clearly were written and they are mostly made up of stories, tales, or whatever you want to call it.
Oh I see, thanks for the explanation.
What the feckIn the latest john oliver show they showed a clip of a qatari gay man that really summed it up for me.
18:18 if anyone is interested:
This whole things about laws is also quite ridiculous. Every single society in the world has improved at some point by people saying "you know what, this law is fecked up". People treating laws like they're laws of physics that can't be contested or changed is such bullshit.
The normal reaction to a fecked up law is pointing out how fecked up it is and contest it and celebrate those who go against it, not "oh well, it's their law, just respect it."
The normal reaction to a fecked up law is pointing out how fecked up it is and contest it and celebrate those who go against it, not "oh well, it's their law, just respect it."
Also the Beckham bit is funny
And the elephant in the room…
Where is the law that states Rainbows are not to be worn on clothing?
Where is the law that states that saying ‘I think everyone is equal’ is illegal?
If there are such laws over there, fair enough, but if not… it seems it’s actually qatar overstepping the mark, rather than anyone else!
Again, it sounds insensitive but if it truly is something like 3 or a few dozen deaths then you should boycott every country with any manual labor. Even in America folks have died building skyscrapers in New York city as recent as a year or so ago. That doesn't indicate a systemic problem but incidental.
If we look at developing nations people die in labor and exhaustion all the time. It's weird to me the west goes all Pikachu face hearing about deaths from exertion in Qatar. The world does not exist like that. People put their lives at risk to work thousands die in places like India, Pakistan, China etc. These countries do not have the privileges of western society.
All this to say is having a "3 too many" stance is not feasible or logical. But if it's systemic that's a separate issue. I haven't looked at the rest of your post in detail but I will later. Interested to see if it convinces me that Qatar did have inhumane conditions outside of the norm for a non western country.
This and the slave labor claims, I have not found data or personal experience to back it but all the other criticism of them sounds right to me.
Feel free to say that but is the end goal to show how messed up they are or convince them to change the laws?
If the latter I think socializing and participating helps a lot more than a boycott. Countries and nations evolve at different rates. Maybe Qatar is socially 80/100 years back according to Western standards. If that's the case, it would be best to bring them out of it.
If 100 years ago a more advanced civilization told England their homosexuality laws are barbaric I doubt it would have been received well. Just my 2cents
Watching what is happening, do you honestly see qatar trying to improve anything or change, even if very slightly?
Because I'm seeing the opposite, doubling down, and as moses mentioned, even making up new "laws" just to censor people.
Your recent post history is a mess.
Fair enough.
Correct.
I'm sure they do but it's hard for a lot of people to respect a culture that has no respect for the human rights of certain minorities or migrant workers.
I'm finding it really difficult to get at all excited about this tournament. Never really planned on boycotting the thing but so far of the 12 matches played I've watched a total of 15 minutes in one match before switching it off.
Will probably tune in for some of the knockouts but just can't find it in myself to give a feck.
Will probably tune in for some of the knockouts but just can't find it in myself to give a feck.
What's your issue with that post?
They're just flexing at this point. They are doing it because they can and there are no consequences.
It's 2022, whataboutism should be dead and buried.
It is irrelevant and simply detracts attention from issues at hand. If the poster has an issue with Germans lack of response to the uhyghurs, they can start a thread?
There's a huge difference mate between people who choose to work in construction in their own country where health and safety precautions are very high dying in an accident. And millions of migrant workers being exploited and forced to work in 50c heat, sometimes with little or no water for in some cases 70+ hours per week. And deaths occuring as a result of that.
Fair enough mate the video in particular is very interesting and points to there being a very systemic problem with migrant workers in Qatar.
Every single subject devolves into whataboutism on this forum and the wider social media, every single subject left or right. Whataboutism won't stop because you're pointing out the date.
But it can stop in this thread if people point out how stupid it is. You know perfectly well what's wrong with that post, I don't understand what point you're trying to make.
No need to start another thread on the Uighurs as there's already one, unfortunately it only has a few pages as no one gives a feck.
Agree. The 2nd Amendment is probably most well-known example of how shit things end up being when an ancient law is still being taken as gospel.