Boycotting occupied palestine

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
32,620
I think I've said it before in the other thread. The tide is turning. Israel will always have people that support them but its sympathizers have declined among Western audiences. Now we have a Western company taking a statement against them and I wouldn't be surprised if more will follow.

I wouldn't yet say Israel is losing the PR war, but they're clearly losing battles at the moment. They could generally always depend on a sympathizing Western audience but that's not so clear anymore.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
129,966
Location
Hollywood CA
Looks like the Ben and Jerry's issue is going to cause more headaches for Unilever.

 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
32,620
Looks like the Ben and Jerry's issue is going to cause more headaches for Unilever.

This is quite odd to me. Why does Florida, a US state, care what companies do against Israel?
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
129,966
Location
Hollywood CA
This is quite odd to me. Why does Florida, a US state, care what companies do against Israel?
Are you familiar with US policy towards Israel ? The US is very supportive of them, so it would completely make sense that individual governors (especially in a state like FL, which has a massive Jewish population) would take action. In Desantis' case, he probably did this by request of Kushner (who is Greenblatt's pal and former partner in crime on Middle East peace during the Trump years).

There are at least five states getting involved.

 

Tibs

Full Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
13,742
Location
UK
I think I've said it before in the other thread. The tide is turning. Israel will always have people that support them but its sympathizers have declined among Western audiences. Now we have a Western company taking a statement against them and I wouldn't be surprised if more will follow.

I wouldn't yet say Israel is losing the PR war, but they're clearly losing battles at the moment. They could generally always depend on a sympathizing Western audience but that's not so clear anymore.
I'd disagree and say that Israel has now lost the PR war
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
32,620
I'd disagree and say that Israel has now lost the PR war
Not quite yet in my opinion. Their sympathizers will cling onto the arguments of Hamas using civilian shields, Hamas shooting rockets (so Israel is defending itself), Israel sharing our "values" etc.
 

stw2022

New Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Messages
3,687
The problem is when you do this you leave yourself open to the suggestion you don’t find the actions of governments in territories you continue to do business in objectionable. The company has a large presence in the UAE.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
129,966
Location
Hollywood CA
The problem is when you do this you leave yourself open to the suggestion you don’t find the actions of governments in territories you continue to do business in objectionable. The company has a large presence in the UAE.
This is true. And beyond that, it doesn't do anything politically and the only tangible result will be Unilever facing scrutiny in one of the world's biggest consumer markets, because one of its subsidiaries unilaterally decided to be political on one issue.
 

neverdie

Full Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
Messages
2,323
This is true. And beyond that, it doesn't do anything politically and the only tangible result will be Unilever facing scrutiny in one of the world's biggest consumer markets, because one of its subsidiaries unilaterally decided to be political on one issue.
If you read their political entry on Wikipedia you'll see that they've been involved in political campaigns since the beginning (one of the founders even contributed to Mumia Abu Jamal's defense fund). There's nothing normal about settler outposts in the OPT and so it's a completely valid move to sanction the sale of goods and amenities in those areas under occupation. All those luxuries that give the illusion of normality in setting that is highly abnormal.

By itself Ben and Jerry's might not do much but it is clearly doing something otherwise you wouldn't see US lawmakers feeling so threatened that they have to react in the way they are. Their concern will be BDS and Ben & Jerry's hope, that it marks the beginning of a sustained boycott campaign.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
129,966
Location
Hollywood CA
If you read their political entry on Wikipedia you'll see that they've been involved in political campaigns since the beginning (one of the founders even contributed to Mumia Abu Jamal's defense fund). There's nothing normal about settler outposts in the OPT and so it's a completely valid move to sanction the sale of goods and amenities in those areas under occupation. All those luxuries that give the illusion of normality in setting that is highly abnormal.

By itself Ben and Jerry's might not do much but it is clearly doing something otherwise you wouldn't see US lawmakers feeling so threatened that they have to react in the way they are. Their concern will be BDS and Ben & Jerry's hope, that it marks the beginning of a sustained boycott campaign.
B&J were apparently allowed a bit more autonomy when they joined Unilever decades ago, but that was of course pre-social media and the potential brand damage that could happen to other Unilever brands if one of them strayed into politics. I'm sure they don't want products by Hellmann's, Breyers, Vaseline, Klondike and other well known brands sold in the US to take a hit. The US states are getting involved because they obviously don't want boycotts spreading (which isn't likely) and want to retaliate with threats of counter-boycotts.
 

neverdie

Full Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
Messages
2,323
B&J were apparently allowed a bit more autonomy when they joined Unilever decades ago, but that was of course pre-social media and the potential brand damage that could happen to other Unilever brands if one of them strayed into politics. I'm sure they don't want products by Hellmann's, Breyers, Vaseline, Klondike and other well known brands sold in the US to take a hit.
I'm not sure those brands would take a hit. Not in PR terms anyway, though the US government and various states could make life very difficult. In public relation terms though there are a billion muslims worldwide and they overwhelmingly side with Palestine. Even the racist evangelical right who support Israel are hardly likely to boycott brands that won't sell in the OPT, because their support for Israel is rooted in eschatological thinking in which scenario all Israelis die except a few thousand who apparently convert to Christianity.

Israel will be happy enough if the biggest story they have to worry about is Ben and Jerry's not selling Icecream in the West Bank. It's only significant if it sets a precedent.
 

Tibs

Full Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
13,742
Location
UK
Not quite yet in my opinion. Their sympathizers will cling onto the arguments of Hamas using civilian shields, Hamas shooting rockets (so Israel is defending itself), Israel sharing our "values" etc.
I see your point.

One of the big shifts, especially since their last escalation of their murderous, brutal, criminal actions....is that there everyday crimes have been getting highlighted and shared a lot more, and the average person is understanding the Palestinian cause a lot more.

Hopefully the sharing of information continues, along with support and aid for the Palestinians, and this tide will turn.
 

The Boy

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Messages
4,317
Supports
Brighton and Hove Albion
Consumer goods should really stop playing politics. It's not their place
Why? surely all people and organisations have the right to get involved in politics. I never understand the idea that certain people/teams/organisations should banned from politics.
 

groovyalbert

it's a mute point
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
9,608
Location
London
Why? surely all people and organisations have the right to get involved in politics. I never understand the idea that certain people/teams/organisations should banned from politics.
Of course every company should be able to take whatever stand they choose politically. But it's potentially very tricky/hard not to become hypocritical.

B&J for instance have a reputation for being very socially progressive and outspoken on social issues, which is great. But if they were to apply a similar stance to what they're doing to Israel to something like gay rights, they would then presumably have to stop selling their products in pretty much every Middle Eastern territory they're currently in.

I know there are unique issues at play here, and a lot comes down to the factory they had in Israel, but there are more complexities than perhaps first appear.
 

The Boy

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Messages
4,317
Supports
Brighton and Hove Albion
Because at one point you'd be forced to pick a sides.

For what's its worth I'm pro palestine.
Of course every company should be able to take whatever stand they choose politically. But it's potentially very tricky/hard not to become hypocritical.
I get all that and the picking of sides/potential to become hypocritical etc is true whether you're a company, a person, a sports team or a political party and is the issue or problem of the entity that has put forward a political view, position or statement.

But the original post said "Consumer goods should really stop playing politics. It's not their place" and that sort of response is prevalent in all sorts of circumstances at the moment and in my mind si absolutely wrong.

No one has the right to say to anyone or anything, you shouldn't be political it's not your place.
 

groovyalbert

it's a mute point
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
9,608
Location
London
I get all that and the picking of sides/potential to become hypocritical etc is true whether you're a company, a person, a sports team or a political party and is the issue or problem of the entity that has put forward a political view, position or statement.

But the original post said "Consumer goods should really stop playing politics. It's not their place" and that sort of response is prevalent in all sorts of circumstances at the moment and in my mind si absolutely wrong.

No one has the right to say to anyone or anything, you shouldn't be political it's not your place.
I agree, my point was more focused on the specifics of this particular situation in regards to the values of B&J's as a company as much as Israel-Palestine.
 

groovyalbert

it's a mute point
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
9,608
Location
London
And I wonder why or better...because of who
That would be down to Israel, America, UK/EU states, but also Egypt/surrounding "allies" of Palestine who refuse to open borders/offer support because of the extremist government in place/benefitting internally from the conflict.

I'm not defending anyone in this game, it's just not as simple as it seems. Sadly, as always, it's the most innocent who bare the brunt of all of this and the painful, depressing cycle continues.
 

UweBein

Creator of the Worst Analogy on the Internet.
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
3,729
Location
Köln
Supports
Chelsea
Such a smart move by BJ. Cheap marketing for them. Loads people are gonna buy more BJ now and the effect will be that they are gonna get fatter. That's all the impact this campaign will have.
 

Fearless

Mighty Mouse
Joined
Apr 24, 2003
Messages
4,460
Location
The Pink Torpedo Club
Such a smart move by BJ. Cheap marketing for them. Loads people are gonna buy more BJ now and the effect will be that they are gonna get fatter. That's all the impact this campaign will have.
It's great marketing for Haagen Dazs you mean.

Started by two US Jews and named in honour of Denmark's exceptional help to the Jews during WW2.
 

Dumbstar

We got another woman hater here.
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Messages
21,134
Location
Viva Karius!
Supports
Liverpool
A lot more companies need to start boycotting occupied Palestine but I doubt that they will have the balls to.
Exactly. I wonder if that man holding the shopping bags against China's tanks made a difference? Oh yeah, he did. I think it just need one man (or men in case of Ben and Jerry :P ) to stand in front of the yanks, damn typo, tanks. :)
 

UweBein

Creator of the Worst Analogy on the Internet.
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
3,729
Location
Köln
Supports
Chelsea
It's great marketing for Haagen Dazs you mean.

Started by two US Jews and named in honour of Denmark's exceptional help to the Jews during WW2.
BJ does taste better, from my point of view.
But nothing beats your local ice cream parlor - so that's where I spend my money ;-)
 

Superden

Full Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
2,081
the response is the usual cancel culture from people making a living out of raging against cancel culture
 

Green_Red

New Member
Joined
May 29, 2013
Messages
10,296
fecking Isrealis hiding behind their Jewish faith is complete bullshit. The world should treat them as Isrealies, who gives a feck what denomination they are. They are people oppressing other people.