Brandon Williams is better than Luke Shaw

lex talionis

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The pre-Moreno Luke Shaw -- you might say, the young Luke -- was phenomenal. But the post-Moreno Shaw has been consistently pedestrian. Usually not terrible, but rarely inspiring.

Williams, should the gods allow it, will be a vastly better fullback.
 

lex talionis

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He’s good with his left foot though, he can put in some lovely balls with his weaker left. Put a few good ones in with his left against Burnley.
Indeed.

Denis Irwin was right-footed and performed admirably for us. The game has changed, no doubt, but quality shines through whether left or right footed.
 

Adnan

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Im more bothered about ability
For what it's worth, I never though CBJ was good enough for the first team. But I do agree that we should give Williams until the end of the season before jumping to conclusions.
 

Bobcat

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Shaw has been a major disappointment overall. Sure the injury was a massive setback but you can't use that as an excuse forever.

Until the end of the season he should only be used when Williams needs a rest. And then we should cut our losses and ship him to China. Can't see any sensible English club willing to pay his crazy wages.
True. I wonder how his career here would have gone had he not broken his foot, but his fitness levels are still a major concern and it seems hes always just a gust of wind away from being sidelined for another few months
 

el3mel

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He's showing some skills in defending that make me surprised he's only 19. It shows great understanding of the game you usually see from well experienced players. On the contrary Shaw positioning and defending have been of amateur level for the majority of his time.
 

roonster09

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Shaw has been a major disappointment overall. Sure the injury was a massive setback but you can't use that as an excuse forever.

Until the end of the season he should only be used when Williams needs a rest. And then we should cut our losses and ship him to China. Can't see any sensible English club willing to pay his crazy wages.
Yeah agree with this. Tired of excuses for Shaw, that injury happened long back, since then many have broken their legs and back to their best or near best.

Shaw doesn't have stamina levels required to make runs all game.
 

Pexbo

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Regarding his right footedness I’m racking my brains for which opposite footed fullback his defending style is reminding me of. Williams has developed this really distinct method of defending inside where he makes being right footed on the left an advantage because of the ways he can position himself for a tackle when he’s got his face to our goal.

If you’re left footed on the left wing, the advantage you have is that you can get goal side of your player and defend with your strong

Williams defends on the outside of the player which obviously comes with its own risk, there’s a good reason it’s drilled into you from a young age to get goal side of your man but it seems to make him quite difficult to attack against because it’s an unusual approach.

He either cuts the ball out of the players feet cleanly to dispossess then very shrewdly pushes himself away from the player with a hand on his upper body which knocks the players balance and gives him a huge advantage in breaking away from him.

Or if the player is still moving towards the goal he times a challenge around the player which has the advantage of being on the blindside of the player so is harder to avoid. This tackle carries the most risk though as the main problem with tackling from this direction is that the ball can easily be deflected into some really dangerous areas.

With both of them he really needs his centre back or defensive midfielder positioning themselves carefully because it’s definitely higher risk defending than a left footer getting goal side.

Have a watch next time he’s playing though and see what I mean about these two challenges he’s made into his advantage from a disadvantaged position.
 

roonster09

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Regarding his right footedness I’m racking my brains for which opposite footed fullback his defending style is reminding me of. Williams has developed this really distinct method of defending inside where he makes being right footed on the left an advantage because of the ways he can position himself for a tackle when he’s got his face to our goal.
Most teams plays with inside forward/Inverted winger, so right footed LB has decent advantage as they can use their stronger foot to defend when attacker cuts in.

I think Azpi at Chelsea was very solid and used it to good advantage but that restricted his attacking game. With Williams it shouldn't be a problem as he played as LB for youth team and also he has very good left foot.
 

thepolice123

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Regarding his right footedness I’m racking my brains for which opposite footed fullback his defending style is reminding me of. Williams has developed this really distinct method of defending inside where he makes being right footed on the left an advantage because of the ways he can position himself for a tackle when he’s got his face to our goal.

If you’re left footed on the left wing, the advantage you have is that you can get goal side of your player and defend with your strong

Williams defends on the outside of the player which obviously comes with its own risk, there’s a good reason it’s drilled into you from a young age to get goal side of your man but it seems to make him quite difficult to attack against because it’s an unusual approach.

He either cuts the ball out of the players feet cleanly to dispossess then very shrewdly pushes himself away from the player with a hand on his upper body which knocks the players balance and gives him a huge advantage in breaking away from him.

Or if the player is still moving towards the goal he times a challenge around the player which has the advantage of being on the blindside of the player so is harder to avoid. This tackle carries the most risk though as the main problem with tackling from this direction is that the ball can easily be deflected into some really dangerous areas.

With both of them he really needs his centre back or defensive midfielder positioning themselves carefully because it’s definitely higher risk defending than a left footer getting goal side.

Have a watch next time he’s playing though and see what I mean about these two challenges he’s made into his advantage from a disadvantaged position.
I think you are over complicating this. Defence fundamentals have always been the regardless of which side the player is defending on. Also foot preference matters very little in off the ball situations. I mean I'm sure he can pivot just as well with either foot or get the block/tackle in.
 

Nou_Camp99

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No professional footballer at the level he is should be that overweight. He must be a very fussy eater and live off crap food. Not too unlike many people his age however most people his age aren't elite athletes tbf.

It's time he was sold. Williams is just as good defensively and much better going forwards. He's on too much money to be back up player. Sell him. He'll take a paycut to leave I'm sure as being back up to a kid can't be doing his morale any good.
 

ExecutionerWasp001

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Another player who's mugged us off. He upped his game just long enough to get the fat new contract & has now reverted to type. He's either out injured or fit but out of condition. Absolutely crazy to give him the 5 year deal with the 1 year option, especially at 190K a week. It's looking like Williams is going to become first choice. ATM he's probably content that he's getting his chance. It won't be long before he starts questioning why his understudy is being paid so much more than him.
 

sun_tzu

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It's time he was sold. Williams is just as good defensively and much better going forwards. He's on too much money to be back up player. Sell him. He'll take a paycut to leave I'm sure as being back up to a kid can't be doing his morale any good.
I'm not sure he should be sold

Williams has had a great start but to expect him to be a first team player for 50+ games next season and for a player that young not to have a blip in form at some point would be a huge risk

With young gone we would need to buy a replacent... And if Williams is the future there is no point trying to get a chilwell or alaba Sandro or bernat... We would need to get a player who would compete for a squad role... And why not keep Shaw for that... If Williams continues to get better then look to move Shaw on after next season.
 

Nou_Camp99

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I'm not sure he should be sold

Williams has had a great start but to expect him to be a first team player for 50+ games next season and for a player that young not to have a blip in form at some point would be a huge risk

With young gone we would need to buy a replacent... And if Williams is the future there is no point trying to get a chilwell or alaba Sandro or bernat... We would need to get a player who would compete for a squad role... And why not keep Shaw for that... If Williams continues to get better then look to move Shaw on after next season.
Shaw is apparently on 170k a week. No way can we have a back up left back earning that much. Also I don't see him wanting to stick around being back up to Williams. A pretty big drop for him that. Sell him and go and buy another up and coming fullback from English leagues. And give another of our talented young players a go too. We wouldn't miss Shaw too much. Not sure what he contributes anymore. Average defensively and poor offensively.
 

RedIan

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Brandon Williams has been so overrated on here.
not really, hes been great. He had a poor game tonight. The back 5 system with him as an advanced wingback doesnt suit him. Everyone’s allowed an off day. I also thing hes getting overplayed. Hes a kid and needs nurturing.
 

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3-5-2 doesn't fit Williams. He needs space to run in to, he needs to attack and making runs from deep. He isn't the typical creative player, he's energy, pace and determination. Luke Shaw is one of the worst fullback in the whole league (maybe the worst) when it comes to being creative, final ball and making points. Shaw is better as a CB when he doesn't have to run or being productive going forward, he doesn't have the stamina for playing fullback either.
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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We have a tendency to really gas up and overrate our youngsters. All fans do that, but United fans are probably the worst for it. Truth be told Brandon has done well, but no better than Borthwick-Jackson did back in 15/16, and we saw how it worked out for him.

Right now you all just need to slow you're role. He's clearly not a better player than Shaw, and the shouts for him to go to the Euros are ridiculous.

Brandon Williams has been so overrated on here.
You should have seen some of the posts about Borthwick-Jackson and Fosu-Mensah.

James Wilson was another.

"We don't need a [insert position that desperately needs strengthening] because we have [insert academy player who isn't ready]" is in the Redcafe DNA
 

roonster09

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Now Williams will get lot of stick, then Shaw will play as LB where he will be expected to make many overlapping runs and contribute in final third, which going by his career he won't be able to do. So he will get lot of stick and there will be calls for Williams to start again.

Shaw isn't good enough LB, Williams isn't too. We need good LB who can offer attacking threat next season.
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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Now Williams will get lot of stick, then Shaw will play as LB where he will be expected to make many overlapping runs and contribute in final third, which going by his career he won't be able to do. So he will get lot of stick and there will be calls for Williams to start again.

Shaw isn't good enough LB, Williams isn't too. We need good LB who can offer attacking threat next season.
1000%
 

Bastian

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I think people are getting confused here. Saying he's better than Luke Shaw is not the same as hyping him to high heavens. I do think he's very promising though. Nothing like CBJ or some such nonsense.

As a couple of posters have mentioned on here, a left wing-back role doesn't really suit him. And let's be honest, we were shite by and large yesterday. Martial's moment of brilliance bailed us out of an otherwise standard shit performance against an organised counter attacking team.

Seems like people have been waiting for a poor performance to come here with their expertise to tell us how overrated he is.

What do people think about Evra's comments? Our best full back in the last 20 years. Seems to really rate him and was the one to push Ole to have a better look.
 

JJ12

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We have a tendency to really gas up and overrate our youngsters. All fans do that, but United fans are probably the worst for it. Truth be told Brandon has done well, but no better than Borthwick-Jackson did back in 15/16, and we saw how it worked out for him.

Right now you all just need to slow you're role. He's clearly not a better player than Shaw, and the shouts for him to go to the Euros are ridiculous.


You should have seen some of the posts about Borthwick-Jackson and Fosu-Mensah.

James Wilson was another.

"We don't need a [insert position that desperately needs strengthening] because we have [insert academy player who isn't ready]" is in the Redcafe DNA
Jesus Christ.

He’s far better than CBJ - that much is obvious to anyone with eyes.

I love the brigade who come in moaning “lolz united fans overrate their youngsters too much”

The exact same fan base is quick enough to write them off after 1 or 2 bad performance.

A kid struggled away in Belgium in a side that made too many changes, he’s a good talent and will have much better games this season.
 

Maticmaker

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Generally would agree Williams, as a prospect is better than Shaw, but last night in Brugge he wasn't.
Probably worst performance I've seen from Williams, (although not all bad) he looks much more comfortable as a traditional LB than left wing back. Maybe its having Shaw behind him that makes him nervous. I would reverse the roles, have Brandon as the defender even in a three at the back and Shaw as the wing-back. Ole take note!
 

Thiagoal

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For an academy graduate in his first season involved with the first team he’s done great! Yes his last two performances have been poor but he’s a kid that’s been thrust into the limelight so no surprise his initial adrenaline fuelled performances started to dip!

Btw- Shaw is a lot better than our fans give him credit for! Player of the year not long ago let’s not forget
 

Andycoleno9

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I will just repeat what i said when this thread was created. No he is not. He is (still) far far away from Shaw.
In defence they are day and light and in attack Williams is much more involved but without final product.
 

Ainu

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A 19 year old player has one bad game after generally doing well and suddenly he's overrated and will never make it. :rolleyes: This fecking place.
 

El Zoido

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I still think he’s better than Shaw, and would like to see him start ahead of him.
 

Kostur

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Yeah, the far reaching cricism is quite random especially given that it's Williams' first season in top flight, whereas it's Shaw's what, 5th year for us alone? And I'd still rather see Williams than Shaw at LB. Shaw's done fine at LCB, both Dalot and Williams struggled yesterday, not really sure our players know how to deal with that stupid 352 shit bar every now and then (usually against Chelsea).
 

roonster09

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Yeah, the far reaching cricism is quite random especially given that it's Williams' first season in top flight, whereas it's Shaw's what, 5th year for us alone? And I'd still rather see Williams than Shaw at LB. Shaw's done fine at LCB, both Dalot and Williams struggled yesterday, not really sure our players know how to deal with that stupid 352 shit bar every now and then (usually against Chelsea).
Shaw's 8th season in PL and 7th with us.

Brandon Williams wasn't even marked as squad player for this season, that's why he wasn't even in preseason squad. Credit to him for taking his chances well and making it as even competition.
 

Eckers99

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It's almost as if young, inexperienced players are inconsistent. There might be something worth exploring in that radical new theory.
 

Rozay

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Now Williams will get lot of stick, then Shaw will play as LB where he will be expected to make many overlapping runs and contribute in final third, which going by his career he won't be able to do. So he will get lot of stick and there will be calls for Williams to start again.

Shaw isn't good enough LB, Williams isn't too. We need good LB who can offer attacking threat next season.
So you were just arguing with me for no reason then?
 

Odin

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Shaw is a good LCB in a back five and a decent left back. Williams has large potential as a wing-back, but at present you'd expect him to be somewhat more inconsistent than Shaw. Both players have their uses, adding different qualities to our team. The two of them have on a few occasions done fairly well together in the 3-5-2 formation. Against Brugge not so much. As full back I'd prefer Williams. That is if he is turned properly "on". In the long run I hope to see that determination down our left flank in every game.
 

roonster09

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So you were just arguing with me for no reason then?
No, I didn't argue with you at all. I said Williams is not good enough as a starter for now, you took it to extreme and said he will never be good enough.

FYI, I didn't have any argument with you, I just commented on your "Stevie Me" post.
 

Houdini

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I agree that Brandon is not better than Shaw. He has the potential though. In the last match he was the worts man on the pitch.
 

Rozay

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No, I didn't argue with you at all. I said Williams is not good enough as a starter for now, you took it to extreme and said he will never be good enough.

FYI, I didn't have any argument with you, I just commented on your "Stevie Me" post.
Haha, ‘Stevie Me’. Someone who has the audacity to suggest Brandon Williams won’t be a future United regular is some sort of attention seeker?! Greenwood, I’d understand. The fact that ‘nobody else can see’ a scenario of Williams not being our LB for years says more of them than it does about me.

Greenwood - ‘not good enough as a regular starter now and never will be’. Now that is controversial. Because he’s different class to Brandon. Clearly. Far more likely that we would struggle to find a better forward than the fully developed version of Mason. If you think the same about Mason, you’re entitled to, but it’s hardly a controversial view to think otherwise.
 

Infra-red

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Regardless of which one is better, we will certainly be in the market for an attacking left fullback/wingback this summer, if Pochettino is coming aboard.