Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


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Buster15

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I'm no fan of the LibDems either but their current slogan is "Stop Brexit". I was replying to the poster who referred to Labour's manifesto.

What I really want to know is how Corbyn will stop a No deal Brexit which no-one seems to be able to answer.
Bingo.
As anyone who actually thinks about the situation knows perfectly well; the only ways to prevent a no deal are:
Accept the WA.
Renegotiate the WA and get a Parliamentary major.
Withdraw A50.

Parliament is actually trying to stop something it voted for.
The current default position is still to reject the WA and to leave on 31/10/19.
Anything else is simply hot air and posturing.
 

Buster15

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This fashioning of Corbyn's views as Marxist is a joke. Many countries across Europe already successfully implement similar policies to those in the Labour manifesto.
Look. I am certainly not an advocate of Corbyn.
But the way that he is perceived in this country is primarily down to the trash printed in the Daily Mail. Yes a little may be factual but the vast majority is typical rubbishing by the rubbish press.

Having thought about it, I wouldn't have a problem with Corbyn being the leader of an Interim Government of National Unity, although that would be a contradiction of terms.
Reason. JC is simply a puppet leader of the Labour Party. And he is well used to doing and saying what he is told.
Hence he can do the same as interim leader.
Most others would have their own agendas.
 

rcoobc

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Shame Swinson didn't bother to check whether Ken Clarke wants a second referendum before suggesting he should be running the country.
We don't need someone who will "stop brexit" because someone running on a "stop brexit" platform wouldn't get enough votes to form a caretaker government.

We need someone who is against a no-deal Brexit. And someone willing to compromise.
 

Maticmaker

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Shame Swinson didn't bother to check whether Ken Clarke wants a second referendum before suggesting he should be running the country.
Yes, she hasn't as they say 'hit the ground running'...more like ploughed straight into the runway!
 

Maticmaker

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Look. I am certainly not an advocate of Corbyn.
But the way that he is perceived in this country is primarily down to the trash printed in the Daily Mail.
Yes, published off and on for the last forty years or so, based on Jeremy's own actions and utterances during this period, his Marxist stance also highlighted in the Sun, the Daily Mirror, the Express, etc.
Please can we stop saying Jeremy's Marxism is a figment of the presses imagination, both he and John McDonnell are life long Marxists and as far as I can see both are proud of it.
 

sun_tzu

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Yes, published off and on for the last forty years or so, based on Jeremy's own actions and utterances during this period, his Marxist stance also highlighted in the Sun, the Daily Mirror, the Express, etc.
Please can we stop saying Jeremy's Marxism is a figment of the presses imagination, both he and John McDonnell are life long Marxists and as far as I can see both are proud of it.


He threw Mao's book over to Osbourne in his budget response... I mean I doubt even the most right wing of the press could have made up something that ridiculous
 

Sweet Square

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We don't need someone who will "stop brexit" because someone running on a "stop brexit" platform wouldn't get enough votes to form a caretaker government.

We need someone who is against a no-deal Brexit. And someone willing to compromise.
So why not Corbyn then ?
 

711

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So why not Corbyn then ?
I think the clue is in his own description 'a government of national unity', which implies it's about more than just one party. They need to talk to find someone mutually acceptable, which could still be Corbyn of course, having talked, or another Labour figure, or someone else. But not just automatically Corbyn.
 

Sweet Square

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Because it's abundantly clear he can't command a majority in the HoC.


Regardless of the rights and wrongs of that it means it's not a viable option.
I think the clue is in his own description 'a government of national unity', which implies it's about more than just one party. They need to talk to find someone mutually acceptable, which could still be Corbyn of course, having talked, or another Labour figure, or someone else. But not just automatically Corbyn.
And the same with Ken Clarke. The unity government stuff has no chance of happen, no matter who it is(A no confidence vote winning is looking pretty slim as well). It was just a tactic use by labour to screw over the lid Dems.

Yet in this fantasy politics people are still putting so much effort into convincing themselves why they should back a tory rather than the labour leader.
 

711

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And the same with Ken Clarke. The unity government stuff has no chance of happen(A no confidence vote winning is looking pretty slim as well).

Yet people are still putting so much effort into convincing themselves why they should back a tory rather than the labour leader.
Well the national unity thing was a Corbyn proposal, but if you think it's a dead idea fair enough.
 

MikeUpNorth

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I'm not discussing the validity or otherwise of the excerpts from the manifesto, I asked for an example of a 'radical' policy. You've thus far failed to find one. Do keep trying.
To be fair, 'People's Quantitive Easing' is a radical policy, previously proposed by Corbyn. It may have merits economically - certainly more and more economists think central banks have exhausted conventional monetary policy ahead of the next downturn. However, mandating that the Bank of England monetise the government's fiscal policy is obviously extremely provocative and jeopardises the independence of the central bank. The fears about what this means coming from a left-wing government are obvious and not unfounded.

It would also be illegal under EU law...
 

Sweet Square

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I only just resisted posting almost this. Our Mockney would make a great Curtis, were it not for his tendency to highlight the 'just my opinion, mate' bit.
It would be great if Curtis ended all his documentaries like this.

Also might as well post this as it seems somewhat relevant.


Yes I see that. And it gets Brexit a step closer at the same time. Win-win for Corbyn, so far.
Again a reminder to everyone Corbyn hasn't got a stop Brexit button.
 

NinjaFletch

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And the same with Ken Clarke. The unity government stuff has no chance of happen, no matter who it is(A no confidence vote winning is looking pretty slim as well). It was just a tactic use by labour to screw over the lid Dems.

Yet in this fantasy politics people are still putting so much effort into convincing themselves why they should back a tory rather than the labour leader.
I think it was a great way to screw over the lib dems. And its worked perfectly for Labour.
So Labour have no serious intention of trying to stop no deal and are merely playing party politics in your view?
 

Buster15

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Yes, published off and on for the last forty years or so, based on Jeremy's own actions and utterances during this period, his Marxist stance also highlighted in the Sun, the Daily Mirror, the Express, etc.
Please can we stop saying Jeremy's Marxism is a figment of the presses imagination, both he and John McDonnell are life long Marxists and as far as I can see both are proud of it.
Of course. And that is why they are both in such senior positions in the Labour party.
Unfortunately the party had again been taken over by ultra left wing factions.
The same as when Neil Kinnock became leader. He was strong enough to take them on.
And if you want to see real passion, look at 'that speach' when he took the Liverpool council on at the Blackpool conference.
For Labour to become electable again, they are going to have to get rid of the puppet Corbyn.

EDIT. my mistake. The conference was 1985 and I think it may have been in Bournemouth.
 
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711

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I thought this was pretty obvious - it's his only hope of ever being PM.
I actually think that if Corbyn offered to serve under someone else in the government he's proposed himself, one of national unity, he would go up hugely in everyone's estimation and it would increase his support in the first election to form a 'real' government. He'd risk Brexit being stopped in the meantime though, so I can't see it.
 

Paul the Wolf

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I actually think that if Corbyn offered to serve under someone else in the government he's proposed himself, one of national unity, he would go up hugely in everyone's estimation and it would increase his support in the first election to form a 'real' government. He'd risk Brexit being stopped in the meantime though, so I can't see it.
But it would also show that he isn't a leader, which to me is also quite obvious.
 

Kentonio

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But it would also show that he isn't a leader, which to me is also quite obvious.
I’d have said it would show great leadership, being confident enough to accept a compromise candidate while knowing that there will be an election soon where he can run anyway. It’d Just show he put the country ahead of his own ambitions, and I think people would appreciate that.
 

sun_tzu

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I’d have said it would show great leadership, being confident enough to accept a compromise candidate while knowing that there will be an election soon where he can run anyway. It’d Just show he put the country ahead of his own ambitions, and I think people would appreciate that.
I think your right
I wonder if this might come up at conference?
I also wonder if the current brexit policy fudge will survive conference
 
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Sweet Square

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So Labour have no serious intention of trying to stop no deal and are merely playing party politics in your view?
I think they have and are trying to stop a no deal but unity government was party politics(Which I don't view as a bad thing)

The odd thing for me is that even if we all pretend a unity government have a chance of happening, people are still arguing it should be a tory as PM rather than the leader of the labour party.
 

711

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I think they have and are trying to stop a no deal but unity government was party politics(Which I don't view as a bad thing)

The odd thing for me is that even if we all pretend a unity government have a chance of happening, people are still arguing it should be a tory as PM rather than the leader of the labour party.
Nope, tory, labour, liberal, just someone mutually acceptable.
 

Paul the Wolf

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He'd go up in my estimation, but if I'm out of step with everyone else fair enough. I suspect he'll do what McDonnell tells him to do anyway, but there's no way of proving that one way or the other.
I’d have said it would show great leadership, being confident enough to accept a compromise candidate while knowing that there will be an election soon where he can run anyway. It’d Just show he put the country ahead of his own ambitions, and I think people would appreciate that.
Yes you're both right in a sense that his image would improve but to be a future PM , not so sure, comes across to me as if someone's pulling his strings.
 

sullydnl

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Yes you're both right in a sense that his image would improve but to be a future PM , not so sure, comes across to me as if someone's pulling his strings.
You're right, it wouldn't play well for him as a prospective PM. "Showing leadership" in a general sense isn't the same as positioning yourself as a leader politically.
 

sun_tzu

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I'm looking forward to the Labour conference. The last one was entertaining, watching Corbyn and McDonnell twisting and turning to avoid the membership's wish to stand for Remain. I think they'll get a harder ride this time.
Unless a general election is called before... Then I assume they would see that as a reason to keep the current brexit fudge in manifesto before the policy could be changed.

I think Cummings is probably salivating at the thought of running against Corbyn with the current policy hence I think Boris will hold a ge vote before a confidence motion can be called just to make sure labour don't get a chance to change to something that makes sense as anybody trying to stand on the current one is going to be slaughtered
Q... Your a remain party
A... No we intend to negotiate a new brexit deal
Q... So your a leave party
A... No we have not decided if we would back our own deal
Q... Riiiight so what do you want in this new deal
A... We won't go into specifics
Q... You think people will vote for that?
A... Erm

Yeah they will Be slaughtered If they try that
 
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711

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You're right, it wouldn't play well for him as a prospective PM. "Showing leadership" in a general sense isn't the same as positioning yourself as a leader politically.
The interim PM would have to be someone who was not going to stand for permanent leader, which one reason the ancient Clarke has been suggested, along with him being a life-long EU enthusiast who was nonetheless prepared to compromise of course. It wouldn't have to be a Tory though, but someone who committed to not challenging for leadership afterwards.
 

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Unless a general election is called before... Then I assume they would see that as a reason to keep the current brexit fudge in manifesto before the policy could be changed.

I think Cummings is probably salivating at the thought of running against Corbyn with the current policy hence I think Boris will hold a ge vote before a confidence motion can be called just to make sure labour don't get a chance to change to something that makes sense
Yeah.
 

rcoobc

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So why not Corbyn then ?
Because hes actively trying to be prime minister, even after Brexit, so any offer will be viewed with suspicion. Because the Tories hate him. Because he's not respected by the leave or remain camps, and you need someone respected by both.
 

Paul the Wolf

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I'm not blaming anyone i am simply pointing out your hypocrisy by voting for the prat that delivered the very thing you hate.
But I didn't vote for him. It's like asking which team do you support out of Liverpool City or Arsenal- none of them but if pushed to pick one...
There are many reasons why the Uk is in the mess it is in. One of them being Cameron's naïvety and playing political games. But there are so many more with all parties and politicians to take their responsibility as well as the media and the electorate itself.

In the long run it may be a good thing, unfortunately the UK is the sacrificial lamb to benefit the rest.
 

Buster15

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The interim PM would have to be someone who was not going to stand for permanent leader, which one reason the ancient Clarke has been suggested, along with him being a life-long EU enthusiast who was nonetheless prepared to compromise of course. It wouldn't have to be a Tory though, but someone who committed to not challenging for leadership afterwards.
Agree he may be ancient. But intellectually he is still very sharp and seems to be well respected. Which is important in this instance.
 

BobbyManc

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By radical I took you to mean extreme, ie for the EU to completely change its fundamental being just to suit Jeremy.
Ok so we've confirmed that you failed to find a radical policy. Glad that's sorted.

To be fair, 'People's Quantitive Easing' is a radical policy, previously proposed by Corbyn. It may have merits economically - certainly more and more economists think central banks have exhausted conventional monetary policy ahead of the next downturn. However, mandating that the Bank of England monetise the government's fiscal policy is obviously extremely provocative and jeopardises the independence of the central bank. The fears about what this means coming from a left-wing government are obvious and not unfounded.

It would also be illegal under EU law...
This never made the manifesto though, did it? It was just an idea that was floated around. It's certainly unconventional but how radical it is is up for debate. Also, hasn't the ECB embarked on their own policy of QE? See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30933515 and https://www.neweurope.eu/article/ecb-prepares-for-a-second-wave-of-quantitative-easing/
 

Buster15

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He's also on centrist wing of his own party, and if the whole idea is national unity it makes sense to have someone closer to the centre than either extreme.
Good point.
It is so logical that it probably won't happen.