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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


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Mogget

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The silver lining to a no deal Brexit is that British exceptionalism is going to take a huge hit in the following years.
 

Brwned

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The logic of sharing responsibly with Labour is perfectly obvious.
If it is successful then TM will take credit for it.
But if it is not successful then she will have shifted the blame fairly and squarely on Jeremy Corbyn and Labour and Labour will have no way out.

It is posturing with one eye on the next GE.
I don't know of anyone that will think the blame has been shifted squarely on Corbyn if he fails in an uncomfortable partnership after two weeks while she's failed as the leader for 2 years. People's memories are short but they're not that short. By now we're all aware that we're in a poor negotiating position that many people would struggle with. People will expect a resolution from the current negotiators but the idea that accountability is passed over just like that makes no sense. The primary responsibility lies with the primary negotiators throughout the length of the negotiation.

The only people that will blame Corbyn for it are the people that want to blame Corbyn. And they've already got enough ammo on that front now.
 

Paul the Wolf

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The EU has changed over time. It's clear UK wants the old style and to cherry pick the current one. Freedom of Movement seems to have been a big issue in case you hadn't noticed.

Also there's been talks about a EU army now the UK is leaving.
Freedom of movement has always been there since the beginning. There's no EU army.
 

Paul the Wolf

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Yes. I agree. Fantastic goal by McTominay by the way.
Far more fun than the dreaded Brexit.
Until Lingard missed the sitter and we've been poor since.

PS Corbyn:Labour has put forward our proposals to ensure there is a customs union with the EU, access to vital markets and protections of our standards of consumer, environmental and workers’ rights. And we’ll ensure that those are on the table. We’re also very clear that there has to be an absolute guarantee that the Good Friday Agreement is maintained for peace in Northern Ireland.

So Single Market and Customs Union then, not what you meant Jeremy?
 
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Eboue

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Until Lingard missed the sitter and we've been poor since.

PS Corbyn:Labour has put forward our proposals to ensure there is a customs union with the EU, access to vital markets and protections of our standards of consumer, environmental and workers’ rights. And we’ll ensure that those are on the table. We’re also very clear that there has to be an absolute guarantee that the Good Friday Agreement is maintained for peace in Northern Ireland.

So Single Market and Customs Union then, not what you meant Jeremy?
I dont think hes reading this thread fella
 

GloryHunter07

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If we end up with something "harder" than common market 2.0 then TIGs, Liberals and soms Labs have a lot of fecking explaining to do. Twats.
 

Penna

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Boris is as bad as Trump. If not worse.
He's a million times more intelligent than Trump, even if he likes to be seen as a bit of a buffoon. I don't know if that makes him more or less of a danger, really. Trump is exceptionally duplicitous and has supreme self-confidence, which can get you a very long way in politics - obviously.
 

GloryHunter07

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Which is a shame I am still in no mans land because of Brexit will have to pay money to live and work further in Germany after 28 years of doing that and I am sick, tired and fed up of this whole farce, maybe its time that little Britain gets a kick up the arse that it appears to need.
I feel your frustration, its fecking me over too. Hoping for no deal brexit will make things worse for everyone.
 

spiriticon

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But you were wrong. You’ve permanently weakened the country.
Temporarily yes. But not permanently. I think we can do even better but I understand not everyone agrees. It's like saying you will only see the light at the end of the tunnel if you are brave enough to walk through it in the darkness.

Not that it matters anyway if a soft Brexit is agreed upon, and it looks almost certain we are heading that way.
 

Drifter

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We are saved.
Brexit: Theresa May to ask EU for further extension

Theresa May will ask the EU for an extension to the Brexit deadline to "break the logjam" in Parliament.

The PM says she wants to meet Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to agree a plan on the future relationship with the EU.

But she insisted her withdrawal agreement - which was voted down last week - would remain part of the deal.

Mr Corbyn said he was "very happy" to meet Mrs May, and would ensure plans for a customs union and protection of workers' rights were on the table.

The cross-party talks offer has angered Tory Brexiteers, with Boris Johnson accusing ministers of "entrusting the final handling of Brexit to Labour".

The former foreign secretary said Brexit was "becoming soft to the point of disintegration" and he could never agree with staying in a customs union.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47794235
 

Wibble

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He's a million times more intelligent than Trump, even if he likes to be seen as a bit of a buffoon. I don't know if that makes him more or less of a danger, really. Trump is exceptionally duplicitous and has supreme self-confidence, which can get you a very long way in politics - obviously.
A very low bar indeed.

Boris's problem isn't intelligence, it is that he is yet another self entitled public school/Oxbridge toffs who think we are all peasants to be used as fodder to enrich him and his kind. Yet we keep voting for this sort of idiot despite all of the evidence that it is a spectacularly bad idea. The fact that labor are led by a chocolate fireguard doesn't help of course.
 

Adisa

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The extension is a fecking trap. If Labour vote her deal down, they would be held responsible for No deal.
 

Infra-red

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They already have several times, although they're not alone.
Yes but this time it really would be no deal - further extension would be impossible, no matter how much both sides wanted it.

I'm not sure where that leaves the UK in terms of the right to unilaterally revoke A50. I can only assume that the EU would insist on the UK giving legally-binding assurances that they wouldn't do it in the 12 April - 22 May period, should the extension be granted.
 

Wibble

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What are the odds that the EU will only agree to a long extension and even then maybe only on the condition that we partake in the EU elections AND have a solid plan of some sort to break the deadlock be that a GE or a second referendum or something?
 
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GloryHunter07

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What are the odds that the EU will only agree to a long extension and even then maybe only on the condition that we partake in the EU elections AND have a solid plan of some sort to break the deadlock be that a GE or a second referendum or something.
We wont need either if May and Corybyn come to some sort of agreement. Seems unlikely but you never know.
 

Paul the Wolf

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Yes but this time it really would be no deal - further extension would be impossible, no matter how much both sides wanted it.

I'm not sure where that leaves the UK in terms of the right to unilaterally revoke A50. I can only assume that the EU would insist on the UK giving legally-binding assurances that they wouldn't do it in the 12 April - 22 May period, should the extension be granted.
But the only reasons to vote it down at any time would be (if you're not playing party politics):
1. To cancel Brexit (whether directly or through a referendum)
2. To change course to a soft Brexit and when I say soft Brexit that means Single Market and Custom's Union, no variations
3. To object to the backstop, which you can only do if you wish to break the GFA.
4. To force a no deal.

Because anything else can be negotiated during the transition period.
 

711

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What are the odds that the EU will only agree to a long extension and even then maybe only on the condition that we partake in the EU elections AND have a solid plan of some sort to break the deadlock be that a GE or a second referendum or something.
The reaction of the EU has been somewhat taken for granted. Various people, including Barnier, have said various things, but the likes of Macron may well have red lines that we don't even know about. I suspect it's a case of the EU will decide and the UK will react.
 

Camy89

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This is fascinating.

It's almost as if they haven't had 3 years to come up with a deal.
 

redshaw

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Freedom of movement has always been there since the beginning. There's no EU army.
The EU of today is not the same as the one UK voted to be in decades ago, shouldn't even need to said really. Never said there was a EU army.

For anyone just reading this, I'm for fully remaining. Paul the Wolf seems to be in the 1970s and I'm not sure where this is going.
 

caid

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I'm really curious as to what the EU and Ireland do about the border in the case of a 'no deal' scenario. Presumably they won't implement a hard border or put up border infrastructure (not that it's even practically possible to do in the short term, regardless of politics), and yet they will be looking to abide by the rules of the single market. If they find some way to square those things without NI remaining in the customs union or single market, the Brexiters will say 'ha, the backstop to avoid a hard border was a ruse all along'.
Our government talked a bit about this a few months back, they kind of rowed back on it after and said they didn't mean it because it was politically ... problematic basically. They kind of mooted creating a temporary border - we had one during the mad cow disease thing on all agricultural products.
I'll think they'll just delay and hope the uk blinks first basically. We're good at fudging rules.
Even a hard border would be leaky and ridiculous though so it would be a problem thats not going to go away.
 

Tarrou

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can't see Corbyn caving now

he'd just be agreeing to take joint blame, basically
 
nerd

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I've not long completed Mass Effect 3 again.

The Tories wanted the 'Control' ending with May's deal, but it didn't work so we were all lined up for the destroy ending with no-deal Brexit, but it seems late-doors, May has plumped for synthesis.

[/geek]
 

Wibble

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Not hard to see who to blame if we lurch out without a deal. Hint: the blue lot.
 
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Abizzz

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He's a million times more intelligent than Trump, even if he likes to be seen as a bit of a buffoon. I don't know if that makes him more or less of a danger, really. Trump is exceptionally duplicitous and has supreme self-confidence, which can get you a very long way in politics - obviously.
I completely disagree. Trump managed to become president while Boris's attempt to become PM was ended by a lizard. He has a larger vocabulary than Trump, that's it. Watching him cry about the current state of brexit makes my blood boil.
 

Buster15

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I was listening to radio five this morning and they were interviewing a Tory MP, didn't catch his name.

He was very unhappy that TM was to discuss a way forward with the most left wing opposition for decades. He then went on a typical rant about Labour, completely missing the point that the only possible option left (I was going to say remaining) was to get cross party consensus.

To me it just summed up the whole problem. Our politicians have descended into the same level as opposing football supporters.
Both hating eachother and chanting obscenities at eachother and yet both loving the game.
 

Adisa

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If the WA has been this tedious, imagine how bad a future relationship discussion is going to be? The idea we can come up with one in three years is a fantasy.
 

Penna

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I completely disagree. Trump managed to become president while Boris's attempt to become PM was ended by a lizard. He has a larger vocabulary than Trump, that's it. Watching him cry about the current state of brexit makes my blood boil.
I don't think Trump would have a snowflake's chance in hell of succeeding in British politics. :)
 

GloryHunter07

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If the WA has been this tedious, imagine how bad a future relationship discussion is going to be? The idea we can come up with one in three years is a fantasy.
Easiest trade deal in history mate, havent you been listening?
 

EwanI Ted

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Not hard to see who to blame if we lurch out without a deal. Hint: the blue lot.
You could just as easily blame Labour for not supporting May’s deal. The deadlock is due to the political system itself.