You know what, I'm going to retract what I just said (apart from the shitshow bit). I was wrong. Cameron said at the time of the referendum that he'd invoke Article 50 immediately in the event of a leave victory.Parliament voted to trigger Article 50, not just May herself. And besides, you need to trigger it before the EU will even start negotiate. You won't get an idea of what deal you may or may not get if you don't even start it.
What was needed in the 2 years after A50 was triggered is a bit more fecking structure and REAL compromise, not just politicians voting for their ideal scenario and voting down everything else.
EU dig the UK out of a hole and the very next day back in parliament they carry on in exactly the same way digging the same hole. EU made a mistake.There are 2 hopes, bob hope and no hope and bob hope is dead
Never, that's the point, it will never be (openly) admitted by Parliament although it still has to be faced, if they want to avoid a no deal Brexit. If they had listened to what the EU told them from the off and then realised earlier the implications of what was being said then a no deal Brexit would have had to have been enacted from the get go.When will parliament realise that the real negotiations start after the UK leaves and that the WA is just to get out.
The initial withdrawal discussions should have taken six months and moved onto the future relationship discussions. There was only ever going to be one withdrawal agreement and yet even now they are still going on about renegotiating the backstop.Never, that's the point, it will never be (openly) admitted by Parliament although it still has to be faced, if they want to avoid a no deal Brexit. If they had listened to what the EU told them from the off and then realised earlier the implications of what was being said then a no deal Brexit would have had to have been enacted from the get go.
It was all bluster from May from the word go and the EU knew it, the fact we are still being strung along proves it. All that the UK parliament can now do is to get/force May to revoke A50, complete the abject surrender take the humiliation and shit show the victors will throw at us and then put themselves to the sword by demanding a GE and beg for mercy from the electorate.
I can see that happening can't you??
There's no point waiting till June if you can have no deal tomorrow.No, at this moment I still think No Deal is inevitable , whether in May, June or November, I'll plump for June.
We are into the 'never never land' scenario or Groundhog day writ large, the only way out is to revoke A50 otherwise we keep going around the loop, goodness knows what business/industry will make of it?No, at this moment I still think No Deal is inevitable , whether in May, June or November, I'll plump for June.
I completely disagree, cant see no deal unless there is a big shift in Parliamentary arithmetic.No, at this moment I still think No Deal is inevitable , whether in May, June or November, I'll plump for June.
No but the EU still have faith that the UK will agree on something , by June they will probably give up.There's no point waiting till June if you can have no deal tomorrow.
Business and industry must be in despair.We are into the 'never never land' scenario or Groundhog day writ large, the only way out is to revoke A50 otherwise we keep going around the loop, goodness knows what business/industry will make of it?
The hardliners are never going to agree, only chance is May and Corbyn agreeing on something, because they have to agree on something acceptable to the EU.I completely disagree, cant see no deal unless there is a big shift in Parliamentary arithmetic.
I can't a see a single decision taken unless there is a big shift in parliamentary arithmetic. Ironically what the UK is currently doing is what they "feared" the EU would do with the backstop.I completely disagree, cant see no deal unless there is a big shift in Parliamentary arithmetic.
Maybe this is the real 'backstop' - backstuck.I can't a see a single decision taken unless there is a big shift in parliamentary arithmetic. Ironically what the UK is currently doing is what they "feared" the EU would do with the backstop.
No deal happens if there is no agreement or A50 is revoked to stop it.Think the only way no deal happens is if it goes back to the UK electorate and they vote for it. It clearly terrifies the UK government and the EU.
Maybe this is the real 'backstop' - backstuck.
There is no agreement and its the 11th April.............No deal happens if there is no agreement or A50 is revoked.
Because the EU have given the UK another chance to sort out an agreement but that won't go on forever.There is no agreement and its the 11th April.............
Another couple of years would be nice, keeps the Tory away from domestic policy and allows for the voter base to become more remain.Because the EU have given the UK another chance to sort out an agreement but that won't go on forever.
I really see at as they hope May and Corbyn will finally agree on something, or yes they cancel it altogether. But if in say 5 or 6 weeks time they both keep to the same line, I think they may give up hope.Another couple of years would be nice, keeps the Tory away from domestic policy and allows for the voter base to become more remain.
Breixteers are terrified of a long delay as they know day by day the remain position gets stronger.
In that scenario the healing would only start once a non-Conservative, EU-friendly Prime Minister and government are elected. But yes, the EU will probably have one eye on the UK at all times so to speak. The damage is already being done, businesses/institutions are leaving/have left and our influence in the EU is declining. I'm sure the federalists would also use it as a stick to beat us with every time we object to further integrating proposals.If they revoke article 50, surely they don't just swan in with the house coat and slippers on as if nothing happened.
They've lost all credibility whichever way this ends up.
100%It's still a much preferable situation to leaving mind you.
I can see parliament agreeing on Single market 2.0 or some such, that was the direction of travel when they were doing indicative votes.I can't a see a single decision taken unless there is a big shift in parliamentary arithmetic. Ironically what the UK is currently doing is what they "feared" the EU would do with the backstop.
I struggle to see how it fixes the current problems. It's based on easily joining EFTA and easily creating a custom union with the EU.I can see parliament agreeing on Single market 2.0 or some such, that was the direction of travel when they were doing indicative votes.
Which problems (there are so many)?I struggle to see how it fixes the current problems. It's based on easily joining EFTA and easily creating a custom union with the EU.
From all reports it very much sounds to me like both parties will be setting the groundwork for the indicative votes to make sure they pass. I think it'll be transferable votesI can't a see a single decision taken unless there is a big shift in parliamentary arithmetic. Ironically what the UK is currently doing is what they "feared" the EU would do with the backstop.
You'd have to get rid of Macron first. The extension barely made it to October. He wants a no deal and he is ready.Another couple of years would be nice, keeps the Tory away from domestic policy and allows for the voter base to become more remain.
Breixteers are terrified of a long delay as they know day by day the remain position gets stronger.
Spot on Paul, its the only way out.I really see at as they hope May and Corbyn will finally agree on something, or yes they cancel it altogether.
In order to fix the irish border problem you need a free trade and a custom agreement. Joining EFTA while staying members of the EEA should fix the free trade agreement issue but it can only be done without altering your current FTA, the new custom union will require the UK to leave the EU first because they can't be on both sides of the table which is the reason behind the withdrawal agreement and the backstop. So the main reason behind the rejection of the WA still exists and the question of the Schengen agreement should pop up because all EFTA members signed an agreement on that topic.Which problems (there are so many)?
I think last night’s optics - May locked outside while Macron decided the country’s fate - kills any serious chance of getting support for Norway plus/Common Market 2.0.In order to fix the irish border problem you need a free trade and a custom agreement. Joining EFTA while staying members of the EEA should fix the free trade agreement issue but it can only be done without altering your current FTA, the new custom union will require the UK to leave the EU first because they can't be on both sides of the table which is the reason behind the withdrawal agreement and the backstop. So the main reason behind the rejection of the WA still exists and the question of the Schengen agreement should pop up because all EFTA members signed an agreement on that topic.
The way I see it, CM 2.0 has the same issues than the WA agreement and if MPs are willing to compromise on these issues then they can't explain why they rejected the WA.
My laymans interpretation is that most of the opposition to the WA was Party political.In order to fix the irish border problem you need a free trade and a custom agreement. Joining EFTA while staying members of the EEA should fix the free trade agreement issue but it can only be done without altering your current FTA, the new custom union will require the UK to leave the EU first because they can't be on both sides of the table which is the reason behind the withdrawal agreement and the backstop. So the main reason behind the rejection of the WA still exists and the question of the Schengen agreement should pop up because all EFTA members signed an agreement on that topic.
The way I see it, CM 2.0 has the same issues than the WA agreement and if MPs are willing to compromise on these issues then they can't explain why they rejected the WA.
I agree but I don't think that the (pretend)opposition has disappeared and party politic stopped.My laymans interpretation is that most of the opposition to the WA was Party political.
Serves him right.Tweet
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More power to you. Personally, I'll admit that I didn't give it much consideration in the vote compared with other factors and nor did others that I know.Speak for yourself, I and everyone over here who I know voted for remain were considering the border as part of the vote. Even some leave voters admitted it preyed on their minds before voting leave.
Somehow the two major parties will have to come up with an actual European Election Manifesto. I presume the Tories will be written by central office so 'Leave with the Deal', although I could very easily be wrong, and Labour will be 'Waffle, waffle, don't mention Leave or Remain, especially Remain as Jeremy wouldn't like it'. I'm fairly sure I'll be voting Liberal.The European elections may become a defacto second referendum.
Nah that would be silly.The European elections may become a defacto second referendum.
See this is the issue with that leavers mob. They would just rather say won rather than admit they were lied to and got it wrong.Farage will get voted in again by the numpties to ‘stick it up them’
It’s not gone down the drain though. This money doesn’t just disappear, it just gets redistributed. I’m sure it gone to really good causes.1.5 billion down the tubes and counting
UK stands down 6,000 no-deal Brexit staff - after spending £1.5bn
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...6000-no-deal-brexit-staff-after-spending-15bn
