Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Paul the Wolf]

It's much easier to fudge the Customs Union like May's deal offers in the EEA.

May's deal is very fanciful, its all based on the UK negotiating wonderful trade deals very quickly which is likely to be far more damaging to the UK than just staying in the EEA.

Yes , the political declaration is meaningless and the wonderful trade deals are flights of fancy but that's not a deal.
The withdrawal agreement is the "deal" and it is vital that the UK stay in the single market and the Customs Union, there's no fudge and the UK have to realise this is so important. I think May has finally realised it but somehow thinks the UK can later get out of it or she's lying to the people or both.

 

[Berbaclass]

May seems to be on some Thanos like crusade and is utterly hell bent on wiping out half the economy whatever the costs.

 

[Adisa]

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[Hammerfell]

May seems to be on some Thanos like crusade and is utterly hell bent on wiping out half the economy whatever the costs.

She's completely neglecting her duty to look after the country's best interests, it's mind-boggling.

 

[MoskvaRed]

An EEA+ deal, whatever that means is actually worse than May's deal (the EU offer)
The Uk still have no say, still pay contributions, still have freedom of movement, but don't have a customs union so does not solve NI and still creates chaos at the ports. At least with the current offer the UK stays in the CU/SM for the foreseeable future.

I think EEA+ means either EEA plus customs union. In other words, an utterly pointless Brexit.

There are two unavoidable horns of the Brexit dilemma:

1. Outside of the Customs Union, Liam Fox can negotiate these fantastic trade deals (because in unicorn land a country of 65m does of course hold a stronger hand than a bloc of 500m). Unfortunately this wrecks the Good Friday Agreement.

2. We can stop EU immigration by leaving the single market. Unfortunately, we need those immigrants, and, more critically, leaving the single market (i.e. not going to the EEA fallback) causes serious damage to our economy.

Sadly, these arguments are probably useless in terms of convincing Leavers. After all, we’ve heard a lot about fishing (0.2% of the economy) while services (67%, if we include financial services) can, to use a phrase, go and whistle.

 

[Stanley Road]

I think EEA+ means either EEA plus customs union. In other words, an utterly pointless Brexit.

There are two unavoidable horns of the Brexit dilemma:

1. Outside of the Customs Union, Liam Fox can negotiate these fantastic trade deals (because in unicorn land a country of 65m does of course hold a stronger hand than a bloc of 500m). Unfortunately this wrecks the Good Friday Agreement.

2. We can stop EU immigration by leaving the single market. Unfortunately, we need those immigrants, and, more critically, leaving the single market (i.e. not going to the EEA fallback) causes serious damage to our economy.

Sadly, these arguments are probably useless in terms of convincing Leavers. After all, we’ve heard a lot about fishing (0.2% of the economy) while services (67%, if we include financial services) can, to use a phrase, go and whistle.

If you were a fisherman, how would you think about things?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I think EEA+ means either EEA plus customs union. In other words, an utterly pointless Brexit.

There are two unavoidable horns of the Brexit dilemma:

1. Outside of the Customs Union, Liam Fox can negotiate these fantastic trade deals (because in unicorn land a country of 65m does of course hold a stronger hand than a bloc of 500m). Unfortunately this wrecks the Good Friday Agreement.

2. We can stop EU immigration by leaving the single market. Unfortunately, we need those immigrants, and, more critically, leaving the single market (i.e. not going to the EEA fallback) causes serious damage to our economy.

Sadly, these arguments are probably useless in terms of convincing Leavers. After all, we’ve heard a lot about fishing (0.2% of the economy) while services (67%, if we include financial services) can, to use a phrase, go and whistle.

Yes, unfortunately the genie has been let out of the bottle and whatever happens now, there's no real satisfactory answer and no way of putting the genie back in.

I find the fishing argument hilarious, when the majority of cod and haddock for fish and chips is imported.

 

[arthurka]

If you were a fisherman, how would you think about things?

Every man for himself and all that.

Yes, unfortunately the genie has been let out of the bottle and whatever happens now, there's no real satisfactory answer and no way of putting the genie back in.

I find the fishing argument hilarious, when the majority of cod and haddock for fish and chips is imported.

You mean like this?
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...d-strike-by-icelandic-fishermen-a3464621.html

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Enuff did, some whining in this thread did. The irony.

Don't think there's many

 

[MoskvaRed]

If you were a fisherman, how would you think about things?

I’d probably vote leave. But I’m curious why the 99+% of the population who don’t work in fishing are more concerned about this extremely marginal industry rather than our key services sector.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

You mean like this?
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...d-strike-by-icelandic-fishermen-a3464621.html

Yes, also remember the cod wars with Iceland in the 1970s

 

[MoskvaRed]

Anyone watching Question Time? Mr Wetherspoons promoting unicorns.

 

[Utdstar01]

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Sample size of 1013 people? Demographics?

 

[Ubik]

Sample size of 1013 people? Demographics?

1000 is fair for the UK, new pollster since the last election though so no track record. Most polls have remain in the lead for what it's worth.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questio...m-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/?removed

 

[Pexbo]

Anyone watching Question Time? Mr Wetherspoons promoting unicorns.

Check the QT thread.

 

[Utdstar01]

1000 is fair for the UK, new pollster since the last election though so no track record. Most polls have remain in the lead for what it's worth.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questio...m-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/?removed

Ah i see. For the first referendum nobody had a clue what they were voting for. A 2nd would be an majority remain imo. EU may not be easy to deal with though if it was possible for us to go back on our decision.

 

[Pexbo]

1000 is fair for the UK, new pollster since the last election though so no track record. Most polls have remain in the lead for what it's worth.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questio...m-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/?removed

1000 is a tiny sample size for any country. Every single vote counts for 0.1%. Every 10 votes a single percentage point. How can you expect any accuracy with that?

 

[2 man midfield]

I’ve never understood those things anyway. I remember pissing the maths teacher off in school because I just wasn’t having it that you could poll a tiny percentage of people, get their opinions and extrapolate them to cover 100%. I still think it’s bullshit now even though I know I’m wrong.

 

[Ubik]

1000 is a tiny sample size for any country. Every single vote counts for 0.1%. Every 10 votes a single percentage point. How can you expect any accuracy with that?

1,000 with a good sample is far better than 50,000 with a bad one. The national polls in the US in 2016, for instance, were more accurate than the state level ones, despite having similar overall sample sizes. I'd like to see a YouGov one done with their newfangled MRP methodology though.

 

[Steven Seagull]

What did we do to deserve these people?

Well, since the 60’s we have rewarded mediocrity and placed equality above ingenuity. So you end up with loads of idiots instead of some plebs and some clever cloggs

 

[stevoc]

I think at a certain level people interpret “leave without a deal” as carry on as normal, as though “the deal” is something in addition to what we currently have now. If it gets to Referendum 2, I don’t know how you would get through to those people. I would only be confident of Remain winning if they allow UK citizens in the EU to vote (100% justifiable as they are the people in the frontline of this decision) and lower the voting age to 16 (unusual but fair in that younger voters have to live with the consequences of this decision more than the OAP Leavers).

I don't think you can get through to them.

As for a 2nd referendum, there would be a lot of young people voting this time around who weren't eligible in 2016 and some old people who voted last time who would not be eligible now.

Don't know if it would be enough to swing the vote, but it's bound to make at least some difference.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Well, since the 60’s we have rewarded mediocrity and placed equality above ingenuity. So you end up with loads of idiots instead of some plebs and some clever cloggs

Aside from rewarding mediocrity, any country that buys into the “project fear” line as a mantra definitely rewards mediocrity, the rest doesn’t make sense.

 

[Sweet Square]

Well, since the 60’s we have rewarded mediocrity and placed equality above ingenuity. So you end up with loads of idiots instead of some plebs and some clever cloggs

Your user name is Steven Seagull.

 

[Mozza]

If you were a fisherman, how would you think about things?

I'd think I catch a lot of herring that the UK market doesn't eat and hope we still have free access to the European markets that do

 

[Sassy Colin]

Well, since the 60’s we have rewarded mediocrity and placed equality above ingenuity. So you end up with loads of idiots instead of some plebs and some clever cloggs

Blame Socialists for that.

 

[Mogget]

I'm sorry, what? We have to deal with this bunch of shite Tory politicians because we focussed too much on equality?

 

[Smores]

Even across all polls it shows that remain won't necessarily win. There hasn't been the movement people think and I'm convinced any people's vote campaigning will end up pushing people to vote leave. Such is this country.

It will be one of the most depressing days if that happens.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

That damned equality, will it ever learn

 

[Stanley Road]

I'd think I catch a lot of herring that the UK market doesn't eat and hope we still have free access to the European markets that do

Well youd be competing with euroboats for that herring so your market would be small. Some eu fisheries catch 80% of their fish in british waters.

 

[GloryHunter07]

Stanley Road is running out of things to cling on to

 

[Big-Red]

Some eu fisheries catch 80% of their fish in british waters.

Isn't this because British companies keep selling their quotas though?

 

[B20]

What did we do to deserve these people?

See below

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[Wibble]

Blame Socialists for that.

What? Blame socialists for us constantly allowing public school yahoos to feck us up the arse for their own enrichment?

 

[Smores]

Liam Fox has this morning been pushing the idea that No Deal won't be a disaster (which may refused to say herself yesterday). Hopefully that's just politics and they're pushing against Labours amendment rather than actually believing that.

 

[Stanley Road]

Stanley Road is running out of things to cling on to

I'm not, I just see things from other peoples perspective instead and not my own selfishness.

 

[Kentonio]

I'm not, I just see things from other peoples perspective instead and not my own selfishness.

Says the guy living in the Netherlands but fully supportive of the UK leaving the EU that he himself voluntarily continues to live in.

 

[Infra-red]

Liam Fox has this morning been pushing the idea that No Deal won't be a disaster (which may refused to say herself yesterday). Hopefully that's just politics and they're pushing against Labours amendment rather than actually believing that.

They (the 'pizza plotters') will knife May in the back, take the top job and push ahead with 'no deal', as soon as her deal gets voted down.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

What? Blame socialists for us constantly allowing public school yahoos to feck us up the arse for their own enrichment?

The way it was meant to be. They crypto feudal system

 

[GloryHunter07]

I'm not, I just see things from other peoples perspective instead and not my own selfishness.

Remainers are selfish now, nice one.

 

[Smores]

"By threatening to oppose her deal in a Commoms vote on 11th December, Mrs May said Labour were effectively advocating leaving without a deal"

fecking cheek of her