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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .

Smores

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Owen Smith the lying scumbag on skynews talking about wanting custom union and single market. He literally voted against both these things 2 days ago
 

Infra-red

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You could just as easily blame Labour for not supporting May’s deal. The deadlock is due to the political system itself.
There is plenty of blame to go around and Labour deserve some of it, but the vast bulk of it lies with the Tories. Brexit is a Tory project and they have made a dreadful mess of it.

Unfortunately, what was once a party obsession, has become a national obsession, and we've diminished ourselves on the international stage and likely taken a wrecking ball to our economy as a result.
 

Honest John

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I thought something like this would happen. Jezzer seems to have jumped on board with the idea too. I reckon she has dangled a GE at him to get her deal across the line. It is just the exit part, and that is what she sees as her mission. After that she probably doesn't care anymore. In any case such thinking has some merit IMO. Jezz doesn't care much about the DUP and will probably relish pissing them off by passing the WA (ditto ERG).
The argument then will be totally about the future relationship. Everything will be on the table including the Canada+++ FTA.

In a GE, with a new Tory leader and the WA passed, parties will be much more able to state a clear position in their manifestos. Tories will probably go on an FTA (no SM or CU), Labour might go on 'a' CU/close alignment blah blah.

From May's POV she can stick two fingers up to the likes of Boris saying - you wanted to be PM, so there you go. Knowing that he will have to fight his own party to get the leadership and then Labour to get into No. 10.
 

EwanI Ted

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There is plenty of blame to go around and Labour deserve some of it, but the vast bulk of it lies with the Tories. Brexit is a Tory project and they have made a dreadful mess of it.

Unfortunately, what was once a party obsession, has become a national obsession, and we've diminished ourselves on the international stage and likely taken a wrecking ball to our economy as a result.
They opened Pandora’s Box, I’m just talking about where are right now.

The Tories actively want no deal.
That makes Labour more culpable for not compromising, not less.
 

Coxy

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You could just as easily blame Labour for not supporting May’s deal. The deadlock is due to the political system itself.
Which party decided to have a referendum?

Which party has since ‘led’ the negotiations?
 

Smores

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They opened Pandora’s Box, I’m just talking about where are right now.

That makes Labour more culpable for not compromising, not less.
Culpable for what? Labour shouldn't be in the position to choose between a bad deal and no deal. That's on the Tories and specifically May.

If we go out with no deal May is the only reason, it's mostly in her power to extend or compromise.
 

EwanI Ted

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Culpable for what? Labour shouldn't be in the position to choose between a bad deal and no deal. That's on the Tories and specifically May.

If we go out with no deal May is the only reason, it's mostly in her power to extend or compromise.
If Labour voted for May’s deal it would pass, simple as that.
 

Cal?

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If Labour voted for May’s deal it would pass, simple as that.
Funny you quoted the answer:
Culpable for what? Labour shouldn't be in the position to choose between a bad deal and no deal. That's on the Tories and specifically May.

If we go out with no deal May is the only reason, it's mostly in her power to extend or compromise.
The UK HoC is not the China People's Congress who just rubber stamp everything.
 

diarm

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To me it just summed up the whole problem. Our politicians have descended into the same level as opposing football supporters.
Both hating eachother and chanting obscenities at eachother and yet both loving the game.
Except using your football supporter analogy, it's like United fans actively seeking relegation in an attempt to stop Liverpool winning the league. Even though Liverpool aren't going to win the league anyway and United going down would have no bearing either way.
 

Wibble

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They opened Pandora’s Box, I’m just talking about where are right now.



That makes Labour more culpable for not compromising, not less.
Risky game they are playing as they still may get the hard Brexit they don't want, possibly barring a few who are pandering to their electorates.

And Corbyn is fecking useless but the Tories deserve the vast majority of the blame. Cameron started the shit show. ERG types have wanted hard Brexit from the start IMO. May has been utterly pathetic. So they are all shit but the Tories own this fiasco.
 
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Smores

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If Labour voted for May’s deal it would pass, simple as that.
If May compromised it would pass, simple as that.

To use a bad analogy Maybot has us driving out of control and is giving her passengers the choice between driving off a cliff or into a wall and you're blaming the passengers for shouting for her to avoid both? If they end off the cliff it's their fault?

Surely its simple logic that if someone is needlessly enforcing two bad choices then the subjects of that aren't to blame the enforcer is
 

Smores

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wonder how many more by the end of the week?
Nobody junior minister trying to win some favour and coverage i think. I imagine we'll see a few more though as the ERG start to press people
 

Paul the Wolf

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The EU of today is not the same as the one UK voted to be in decades ago, shouldn't even need to said really. Never said there was a EU army.

For anyone just reading this, I'm for fully remaining. Paul the Wolf seems to be in the 1970s and I'm not sure where this is going.
I don't think it's me that's stuck in the seventies.

You said the EU had changed - you mentioned foM and an EU Army. The idea from the beginning was to encompass more and more countries in Europe. We're all still separate nations.
If anyone's stuck in the seventies to think it would stay just as nine countries is a little bit naïve. I hope more countries become part. You couldn't be more wrong.
 

horsechoker

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Christ, if ever you needed reminding of what a bunch of tossers the Tories are.

I've criticised and been disappointed with Corbyn and Labour throughout this whole fiasco but they're not even in the same galaxy as those cnuts.
This supposed compromise is really an attempt to drag Labour down with them. Its disgusting but I don't have much sympathy for Labour either. Sad reality is, both will recover from this because our political system will not allow an outside party to be in control.
 

EwanI Ted

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If May compromised it would pass, simple as that.
Exactly my point, both sides are doing the same thing.

To use a bad analogy Maybot has us driving out of control and is giving her passengers the choice between driving off a cliff or into a wall and you're blaming the passengers for shouting for her to avoid both? If they end off the cliff it's their fault?

Surely its simple logic that if someone is needlessly enforcing two bad choices then the subjects of that aren't to blame the enforcer is
Trouble is, there's no consensus over what constitutes a "good" choice, as the indicative votes have made clear, so that argument doesnt really follow. Whatever solution is offered, a majority of MPs disagree with it, so the deadlock continues.
 

sun_tzu

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This supposed compromise is really an attempt to drag Labour down with them. Its disgusting but I don't have much sympathy for Labour either. Sad reality is, both will recover from this because our political system will not allow an outside party to be in control.
if labour dont have the political nouce to avoid the trap that everybody can see then frankly they deserve to be dragged down...
 

EwanI Ted

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probably if may / coybyn agree and announce anything will be the time...
If May and Corbyn join forces, then arm in arm lead us out of the EU to a soft Brexit, it would probably break both parties in half. And for that reason, well, I just dont see it happening.
 

Smores

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Exactly my point, both sides are doing the same thing.

Trouble is, there's no consensus over what constitutes a "good" choice, as the indicative votes have made clear, so that argument doesnt really follow. Whatever solution is offered, a majority of MPs disagree with it, so the deadlock continues.
There's a clear direction from the commons that certain options are preferable to Mays deal so you're wrong. A majority isn't needed to put the option on the table.

The CU and/or single market would have passed with government votes.

May has taken no deal off the table she says, that should be demonstration enough that no deal occurring is 90% on May.
 

africanspur

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I find it disgusting that people are responding in this way before they've even heard or seen what the deal might be.

How has cooperation developed such a negative connotation?
 

horsechoker

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I find it disgusting that people are responding in this way before they've even heard or seen what the deal might be.

How has cooperation developed such a negative connotation?
Pessimism is at a high because this process has dragged on and nothing so far has produced a majority agreement.
 

Kentonio

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Trouble is, there's no consensus over what constitutes a "good" choice, as the indicative votes have made clear, so that argument doesnt really follow. Whatever solution is offered, a majority of MPs disagree with it, so the deadlock continues.
The argument does kind of work. The problem with people calling for compromise is that the compromise options are basically lets drive off a smaller cliff while hitting a smaller wall. The issue here is that a large number of MPs are still trying to claim that the car can fly and that the wall is made of marshmellows. Until that crap stops, it's hard to see anything other than a tragic conclusion.
 

EwanI Ted

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There's a clear direction from the commons that certain options are preferable to Mays deal so you're wrong. A majority isn't needed to put the option on the table.

The CU and/or single market would have passed with government votes.

May has taken no deal off the table she says, that should be demonstration enough that no deal occurring is 90% on May.
Yes, and May's deal would have passed with Labour votes, we don't need to keep going in circles. The point is that both parties are in the same position, either of them could agree with a plan the other side supports and we'd have a deal tomorrow. But neither side do and we move towards no deal by default.

If you accept that Labour are right not to support a deal they don't agree with, then you have to accept the same for the Tories. If you think the Tories should compromise, you should say the same of Labour. Or, as I do, you can take the view that only voting for things you agree with and rarely compromising with the other side are flaws baked in to our political system, and that's the reason we're inching toward defaulting to no deal.
 

Wibble

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Exactly my point, both sides are doing the same thing.
But only one of them.is the party who started this whole mess and then continued to make a disaster of it for the past 3 years.

Labor are hopeless but they didn't start this or design the debacle it has become.
 

Wibble

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Yes, and May's deal would have passed with Labour votes, we don't need to keep going in circles. The point is that both parties are in the same position, either of them could agree with a plan the other side supports and we'd have a deal tomorrow. But neither side do and we move towards no deal by default.

If you accept that Labour are right not to support a deal they don't agree with, then you have to accept the same for the Tories. If you think the Tories should compromise, you should say the same of Labour. Or, as I do, you can take the view that only voting for things you agree with and rarely compromising with the other side are flaws baked in to our political system, and that's the reason we're inching toward defaulting to no deal.
It's the Tories own fecking deal.
 

Wibble

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Trouble is, there's no consensus over what constitutes a "good" choice
Which is what May should have done before triggering A50. At the very least she could have not wasted all but a few days of the last 3 years failing to build a consensus across parties.

Corbyn is proving that he isn't a visionary or charismatic leader but the blame lies fairly and squarely with the Tories.
 

Smores

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Yes, and May's deal would have passed with Labour votes, we don't need to keep going in circles. The point is that both parties are in the same position, either of them could agree with a plan the other side supports and we'd have a deal tomorrow. But neither side do and we move towards no deal by default.

If you accept that Labour are right not to support a deal they don't agree with, then you have to accept the same for the Tories. If you think the Tories should compromise, you should say the same of Labour. Or, as I do, you can take the view that only voting for things you agree with and rarely compromising with the other side are flaws baked in to our political system, and that's the reason we're inching toward defaulting to no deal.
I understand where you're coming from but I'd call out there's a distinction between party and government and whilst this government and most governments blur the lines it should be distinct.

If you're saying that Labour would be as to blame as the ERG for no deal due no to not voting for the WA (ignoring some aspects) i agree. However that's only because the government are 100% to blame.
 

Mockney

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Trouble is, there's no consensus over what constitutes a "good" choice, as the indicative votes have made clear, so that argument doesnt really follow. Whatever solution is offered, a majority of MPs disagree with it, so the deadlock continues.
A majority of Tory MPs disagree with it. 90% of Labour MPs have voted for one compromise option or another, with only 9.6% abstaining from the whip. If it wasn’t for all the Tories, who got us into this mess, the DOP who they bribed to help them, the TING party, who threw their toys out of the pram about an ideologue Labour and then promptly refused to vote for anything but a second Ref (which they don’t even want anymore now they think they can straight revoke) then a soft Brexit would’ve passed....