Bruno fans vs Pogba fans - Why?

[el3mel]

This is not a debate over his position. It's simply pointing out that in the positions they now play, different things are expected of them. Surely you can appreciate that? Or you expect Maguire to be top goal scorer too?

Pogba has been here in 4 years and played pretty much in every single position in midfield and people were still criticizing him for his inconsistency. Pogba's inconsistency in general has nothing to do with anyone or anything. It's him, that's all really.

Did you think we got from Pogba what we were expecting when we signed him 4 years ago for 90m ?

 

[TsuWave]

Pogba has only led United in attacking stats during Ole honeymoon period. No before it and not after it. Overall he has been good for United consistently for only few patches, otherwise, hanging between 4/10 and 9/10 performance. Definitely not consistent enough to be our main man.

Pogba is more talented than Bruno, and has more skills to show off and yes Bruno wastes several of his key passed, but also, Bruno is more consistent with his output on the long run, which actually what matters in the end for any top team. Playing on one or 2 great matches followed by invisible performance on the pitch will never win you something. Being able to consistently put on numbers and be productive even when you have an off game has bigger chance to win you something. That's all.

Yes, Pogba is more talented, but talent isn't everything in football.

Are you in the habit of just mentioning/arguing random talking points just to feel like you’re saying something?

I didn’t argue how many times Pogba was leading all attacking stats for United. I mentioned the fact that it’s something he has done, which he has. I also said he regularly fed Ibra, which he did. Pogba plays a much deeper role than Bruno now.

I didn’t argue which one is more talented, nor do I care to engage in that conversation. They are both players I appreciate. And again, I don’t believe United has nor should have a “main man”. That’s an archaic notion that in my opinion has no place in modern football at least for a club of United’s stature. You look around at big clubs that are currently doing well like Bayern, Liverpool etc and they have many quality players and don’t rely on the idea of a “main man”.

Such a bizarre post.

 

[jackal&hyde]

They are both poor now like most of the team due to fitness issues. Pogba has a bunch of haters though that are relentless.

 

[el3mel]

Are you in the habit of just mentioning/arguing random talking points just to feel like you’re saying something?

I didn’t argue how many times Pogba was leading all attacking stats for United. I mentioned the fact that it’s something he has done, which he has. I also said he regularly fed Ibra, which he did. Pogba plays a much deeper role than Bruno now.

I didn’t argue which one is more talented, nor do I care to engage in that conversation. They are both players I appreciate. And again, I don’t believe United has nor should have a “main man”. That’s an archaic notion that in my opinion has no place in modern football at least for a club of United’s stature. You look around at big clubs that are currently doing well like Bayern, Liverpool etc and they have many quality players and don’t rely on the idea of a “main man”.

Such a bizarre post.

What we were expecting from Pogba when we signed him 4 years is to be producing consistently over a long season. He has never done that for us, and never had one season of putting on consistent numbers and performance as much as possible for us since he signed, just patches here and there, that's all. Bruno has been very consistent in his output in general, even when he has a day off, he produces, like any top player, unlike Pogba. That were the expectations from Pogba when he signed and that's what Bruno showed us that it can happen, without ton of excuses and blaming everyone on the pitch and the manager for being unable to get the best out of him, like what we have seen for Pogba.

 

[The Original]

Pogba has been here in 4 years and played pretty much in every single position in midfield and people were still criticizing him for his inconsistency. Pogba's inconsistency in general has nothing to do with anyone or anything. It's him, that's all really.

Did you think we got from Pogba what we were expecting when we signed him 4 years ago for 90m ?

Who is we? I think the question you mean to ask is the club happy with what they got? Since only those who made the decision to bring him in can state what exactly their expectations were. And os far they have done everything to keep him.

Everyone was happy with Pogba until Mourinho wasn't. Ole is happy with him and that is what matters.

Personally, I have been quite pleased with his output, especially when he took on more attacking responsibility in Ole's first season. he was definitely (statistically proven) much more productive than Bruno is.

 

[el3mel]

Who is we? I think the question you mean to ask is the club happy with what they got? Since only those who made the decision to bring him in can state what exactly their expectations were. And os far they have done everything to keep him.

Everyone was happy with Pogba until Mourinho wasn't. Ole is happy with him and that is what matters.

Personally, I have been quite pleased with his output, especially when he took on more attacking responsibility in Ole's first season. he was definitely (statistically proven) much more productive than Bruno is.

Ok for you then I guess, if you're happy and think we got from him what you were expecting when you signed him. If that's the case I'm not going to change your opinion. For me of course he didn't reach my expectations when we signed him 4 years ago, and if he leaves now, he won't be considered a success for me.

 

[Canagel]

The only reason most Bruno fanboys refuse to criticise him is that that would be an admission that you were wrong about Pogba. Has any player been more inconsistent than Bruno since he came? he plays very poorly and then comes up with an assist or a penalty and you say he is more productive than Pogba. If the comparison is from the period Bruno came then sure, he has been but that is because he plays almost like a second striker while Paul is sitting in a holding position most of the time. How can you use productivity as a fair measure between them? More importantly, why would you feel the need to?

These people are the same people that were dismissing a 16 goals 10 assist season by Pogba because "half of his goals are penalties" and saying stuff like "Highlights player" regarding Pogba. Nothing regarding productivity then.

What is ironic is that Bruno is the real definition of a highlights player but they dont keep the same energy they had for Pogba. Everything is justified under the "hes trying" label even though he turns the ball over far more than Pogba did and far more careless on the ball while being less creative overall.

A lot of United fans pick and choose what is acceptable depending on which players they like more and don't keep the same energy for everyone

 

[roonster09]

Anyone else getting annoyed by this?

Yes.

Bruno fans vs Pogba fans
Rashford fans vs Martial fans
It might sound hilarious but we have Maguire fans vs Lindelof fans and equally worse Shaw fans vs AWB fans.

Can't wait for Henderson vs De Gea.

 

[kouroux]

See this all the time online. Bruno fans slating Pogba, Pogba fans slating Bruno. Why? It makes no sense and is a very new trend. I don’t remember Cole vs Yorke or Keane vs Scholes. Who cares? Why does it matter? We’re all United fans, I don’t understand why we have these [insert player] FC factions within our fam base. I see it with Rashford & Martial fans too.

Anyone else getting annoyed by this? Either support the club or don’t, not just certain players.

This. Criticism is fine as long as it's done fairly tbh, the idea should always be supporting the club. Some fans feel these personal connections with certain players and it can affect their assessment of them and the players they perceive to be as their "rivals" within the club.

 

[Henandez14]

In reality Bruno was pretty much everything we expected from Pogba when we signed him. Bruno was the player we thought Pogba is. Main man in the attack, creative, goalscorer, set piece taker, and has an output even when he is crap in a match. We thought Pogba would be all of these when we signed him. That's just the problem.

Then why did we persist in playing pogba in a 2 from the beginning? With Mhkitaryan, then lingard in the ten position?

 

[Pablo18th]

It's always been the case that people have their favourite player and favour them over others even when they aren't as good.

Ronaldo/Rooney was a great example. There were 2 sides there too.

There were many who thought Rooney was a better talent when they were kids and continued to argue he was a better player than Ronaldo years later.

Then there were others who were right.

Correct. This never made sense to me, at no point was this ever an argument but the agenda always lives.

 

[Acole9]

Can't say I've noticed it. I think some fans do support certain players rather than the team though.

 

[Clermontois]

At some point should you question whether it has been his best position. It has probably been five years since he has played in some wierd specific left of a midfield 3 for club or country and he has played well in that time for spells

At some point you should question what you are talking about. His numbers in the AM position over 6 games have not been equalled by anyone who played there before or after him.

 

[Mr PG]

The only reason most Bruno fanboys refuse to criticise him is that that would be an admission that you were wrong about Pogba. Has any player been more inconsistent than Bruno since he came? he plays very poorly and then comes up with an assist or a penalty and you say he is more productive than Pogba. If the comparison is from the period Bruno came then sure, he has been but that is because he plays almost like a second striker while Paul is sitting in a holding position most of the time. How can you use productivity as a fair measure between them? More importantly, why would you feel the need to?

Offer any team in the world... between Bruno amd Pogba, whom would they take for the same price and that’s your answer.

 

[tjb]

The problem with Pogba is that people didn't actually watch him before he came here. He was never a playmaker or a box to box midfielder or an attacking midfielder. He was essentially an attacking box to box midfielder with no defensive responsibilities. This position exists only in Italy as a result of teams not using wingers as much. It's the reason why France have struggled with him in the past and we have been for a while. This in addition to the slow pace of Italian football made it work exceptionally for him. I don't think any manager can position him in a role that suits him best and I don't think Pogba is effective enough for us to change our formation to the one or two that specifically suits him. It's on Pogba to expand his game and get better in the areas he is weakest. His reputation is far bigger than what he actually provides. I'm not saying that he is not a good player, but people need to accept the fact that Bruno may actually be better than him, and that our performances/his performances over the last few years have not been a result of misuse, but rather inconsistencies and weaknesses in his game.

 

[Dante]

The problem with Pogba is that people didn't actually watch him before he came here. He was never a playmaker or a box to box midfielder or an attacking midfielder. He was essentially an attacking box to box midfielder with no defensive responsibilities. This position exists only in Italy as a result of teams not using wingers as much. It's the reason why France have struggled with him in the past and we have been for a while. This in addition to the slow pace of Italian football made it work exceptionally for him. I don't think any manager can position him in a role that suits him best and I don't think Pogba is effective enough for us to change our formation to the one or two that specifically suits him. It's on Pogba to expand his game and get better in the areas he is weakest. His reputation is far bigger than what he actually provides. I'm not saying that he is not a good player, but people need to accept the fact that Bruno may actually be better than him, and that our performances/his performances over the last few years have not been a result of misuse, but rather inconsistencies and weaknesses in his game.

A box to box midfielder with no defensive responsibilities is an attacking midfielder.

 

[Lay]

People defending players as if they support the player solely bug me.

I wonder if fans of United dread a player they dislike on their so called supported team scoring.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

People defending players as if they support the player solely bug me.

I wonder if fans of United dread a player they dislike on their so called supported team scoring.

I find it very strange. It’s a strange development, which frankly I don’t understand.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

These two players both deserve stick this season. Neither have performed well enough and could/should be dropped.
I guess the problem is Ole do not have the balls to drop his star players.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

These two players both deserve stick this season. Neither have performed well enough and could/should be dropped.
I guess the problem is Ole do not have the balls to drop his star players.

This is my biggest issue, not just with ole,but football in general, pogba has been playing like crap and should be dropped until he can contribute, no ifs or buts. But even saf used to do it, insisting on letting Rooney "play into form" at the start of the season when hed come back overweight and out of shape after a summer of fags and Junk food. And dont get me started on lvg and rooney, star players have far too much power In the modern game, it's got to the stage where coaches are too scared to drop them when they are playing like shit in case they throw their toys out of the pram and demand to leave.

 

[Stretender]

These two players both deserve stick this season. Neither have performed well enough and could/should be dropped.
I guess the problem is Ole do not have the balls to drop his star players.

Not really mate. I have watched Bruno for half a season and 2 games of a new season. He is destined for success here and he will be remembered fondly. Do not put Bruno and Pogba in the same sentence.

Whether people like it or not Pogba has not delivered here. I will make him sign a new contract just to retain his value. Sell him to Madrid for 70 or 80 million.

Pointless footballer.

 

[He'sRaldo]

It's the hyperbole about Pogba that makes people vehemently defend him, and it's the hyperbole about Bruno that makes people question him.

Saying things like Pogba has never delivered for us in 4 years, and also saying things like Bruno has revived United and is twice the player Pogba will ever be, will both result in strong push-back creating "fans" and "haters" out of regular people.

The way to combat it is to be fair in both praise and criticism. And to be fair that goes with all evaluations and not just Pogba or Bruno. Ole, Martial, Rashford, Shaw, and the likes all deserve fair criticism instead of the extremes people tend to swing towards.

 

[tjb]

These two players both deserve stick this season. Neither have performed well enough and could/should be dropped.
I guess the problem is Ole do not have the balls to drop his star players.

Sorry, but that's simply not true. Bruno delivered a number of key passes and worked his socks off out of possession. He wasn't his mercurial best, but he contributed. He had a hand in all three of our goals and did not consistently foul or give the ball away for no reason like Pogba did. It's ok to say that Pogba is off form due to the lack of preseason and Covid, but it's unfair to lump them together. Pogba has horrendous yesterday and the week before, Bruno has simply been average. Big difference.

 

[The Original]

Offer any team in the world... between Bruno amd Pogba, whom would they take for the same price and that’s your answer.

So which are these teams that want Bruno?

 

[El Jefe]

I think most of us are fans of both but the Pogba fan boys for lack of a better term are a bit delusional. They don't hold Pogba accountable for anything, there's always an excuse for why he hasn't delivered yet. I don't actually think Bruno fan boys exists, people use Bruno's impact to highlight there should be no excuse for Pogba.

In saying that, there's a portion of the caf that I'm sure absolutely hate Pogba and can't look at anything he does objectively. They are the worst and I feel it turns into a circus when they get into it with the Pogba 'fan boys' as both sets have no semblance of objectivity.

 

[Foxbatt]

I think Pogba and Bruno can play together but if you play a 4 man midfield. Teamwise to me Bruno has been a better team player. He may not be as talented as Pogba but he works his socks off. I think Pogba tries too much on his own and that's why he loses possession easily.
Maybe Pogba is not fit still? But he needs to play further forward than what he is doing now and to keep the balance Greenwood should be dropped or put as CF with Martial dropping deep.

 

[ghaliboy]

The first page, like shit to a blanket , encapsulating the weirdness of the handful of fans that take Pogba criticism personally and think they need to defend themselves vicariously for Pogba's failings and then lash out at everyone. Weird phenomenon indeed.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

We are so lucky to have both these midfelders in our team, for years we had such mediocre players in those positions now we finally have two world class players in our midfield, best two midfielders we’ve had post Keane Scholes

 

[noodlehair]

If you're slagging off or criticising Fernandes then you need to have a word with yourself.

Pogba gets criticised because he puts in rubbish performances so often.

I also think that they both play the same position really, which I guess is where the idea it's one or the other comes from. One thing I would say for Pogba is that Bruno would definitely struggle a lot more if his role required defensive discipline. It suits neither of them but we seem to keep wanting to pretend Pogba can do it.

Don't really see how both fit in the same team, apart from when opposition teams sit back. At least not with the players we have anyway. If we had peak Michael Carrick sitting in midfield you could play both. Or if you had centrebacks with a lot more pace than our ones.

 

[ReallyUSA]

People in dire situations hurt who they are around.

 

[Class of 63]

They both want/need to play the same position, and the vast majority of fans know that, so it's no surprise that fans of player 'A' have a pop at player 'B' if he's not bang on his game, it's nearly understandable as you will never have a successful team with both in it as starters.

 

[The Original]

If you're slagging off or criticising Fernandes then you need to have a word with yourself.

Pogba gets criticised because he puts in rubbish performances so often.

I also think that they both play the same position really, which I guess is where the idea it's one or the other comes from. One thing I would say for Pogba is that Bruno would definitely struggle a lot more if his role required defensive discipline. It suits neither of them but we seem to keep wanting to pretend Pogba can do it.

Don't really see how both fit in the same team, apart from when opposition teams sit back. At least not with the players we have anyway. If we had peak Michael Carrick sitting in midfield you could play both. Or if you had centrebacks with a lot more pace than our ones.

And why, if i might ask, is Bruno above all criticism?

 

[The Original]

Sorry, but that's simply not true. Bruno delivered a number of key passes and worked his socks off out of possession. He wasn't his mercurial best, but he contributed. He had a hand in all three of our goals and did not consistently foul or give the ball away for no reason like Pogba did. It's ok to say that Pogba is off form due to the lack of preseason and Covid, but it's unfair to lump them together. Pogba has horrendous yesterday and the week before, Bruno has simply been average. Big difference.

A classic example of why this schism exists.

You say this in the same game where Bruno gave away a penalty and was lucky not to get a second yellow, with an incredible amount of incomplete passes.

 

[sammsky1]

At some point you should question what you are talking about. His numbers in the AM position over 6 games have not been equalled by anyone who played there before or after him.

But no one should ever question your analysis on Pogba, right?

Also what kind of a data set is 6 games?! 6 games over a period of 4 years?!

 

[lex talionis]

Pogba clearly isn’t fit yet, so the serious question (and not this insane agenda crap here) before us is whether he regains his fitness more quickly by sitting out the first month of the season or playing into fitness.

Seems to me obviously the latter.

 

[Clermontois]

But no one should ever question your analysis on Pogba, right?

Also what kind of a data set is 6 games?! 6 games over a period of 4 years?!

Question what you like lad, most likely you have several questions for yourself.

A data set of 6 games exists because that is the totality of his games in the AM position at Manchester United.

Other players have played there for longer but have not delivered as much as he did, bar penalties, in that admittedly small data set.

 

[noodlehair]

And why, if i might ask, is Bruno above all criticism?

He isn't, but he's been our best player since we signed him and also MOTM in a majority of games he's played for us. He also works harder than anyone else in our team.

I don't really get what one has to do with the other in that respect. You can criticise both or neither if you like. It's just that if you're criticising Fernandes there's a much higher chance that you are being unreasonable, or talking shite

 

[Clermontois]

He isn't, but he's been our best player since we signed him and also MOTM in a majority of games he's played for us. He also works harder than anyone else in our team.

I don't really get what one has to do with the other in that respect. You can criticise both or neither if you like. It's just that if you're criticising Fernandes there's a much higher chance that you are being unreasonable, or talking shite

He has not been our best player since anything, take off your media specs for a min and address the other poster with facts. About the MOTM, it tends to be biased and go with the media as well these days.

Utter folly in that last line, proving the point of the other poster's question in the first place.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

He has not been our best player since anything, take off your media specs for a min and address the other poster with facts. About the MOTM, it tends to be biased and go with the media as well these days.

Utter folly in that last line, proving the point of the other poster's question in the first place.

Well its either him or Martial... Nobody else comes close.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Sorry, but that's simply not true. Bruno delivered a number of key passes and worked his socks off out of possession. He wasn't his mercurial best, but he contributed. He had a hand in all three of our goals and did not consistently foul or give the ball away for no reason like Pogba did. It's ok to say that Pogba is off form due to the lack of preseason and Covid, but it's unfair to lump them together. Pogba has horrendous yesterday and the week before, Bruno has simply been average. Big difference.

He scored a pen at least, but the performance was very poor. I would give DVB a chance in the next game.
Although we will see what happens in the cup.