Bruno Fernandes’ “Bad Season”

Isotope

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One of his worst games ever, absolutely awful. Gave the ball away to the opposition every single time he received it.
72% passing rate, 51 passes. Our other "creative" players: Pogba 76% (38), Sancho 89% (28).
 
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Yagami

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Can't help but feel his best position on the pitch would be as a false 9 with wide men overlapping where his wastefulness isn't so costly, and he can't do as many unwise, ill-thought out actions that put the team in jeopardy.

The better the teams we face, the worse he becomes because he sees less of the ball and every errant or wild action looks far worse, like he's lacking intelligence for even attempting such low percentage actions.

I think a lot of that is negated by purposely making him the player who is supposed to deliver the final action rather than being a secondary cog in the machine who is supposed to pick and choose his moments and not treat the ball like it's a bomb he has to get rid of as quickly as possible no matter the circumstance.

I think @Yagami is right, though. He's not the type of player you see in teams at the very top of the food chain and I think his limitations become obvious when he's up against very good defensive midfielders or very aggressive, organised pressing.
I’ve seen this false 9 position branded about for him but I don’t think it’s wise myself, mate. As a false 9, you need to be able hold the ball under pressure and keep the ball in tight spaces without many passing options. Especially on the counter when he’s playing with his back to goal with a defender breathing down his neck. It’s a recipe for disaster.
Are you saying United should NOT play him in big games, because he's such a hindrance to our GAME?
Of course. It’s no coincidence our form in the “big games” nosedived after his arrival. Taking care of the ball is key in big games, and, with Bruno, we treat the ball like an acme dynamite stick.
Bruno is infuriating but he is far from our biggest issue imo. If this team had a world class striker in his prime, a top class right winger, proper balance in midfield like that rovided by a top DM in his prime and a world class defense like any top team should have a player like Bruno would be worth his weight in gold, even in the fabled big games because even they, like we saw tonight, can be decided in single moments that Bruno guarantees in every match he plays and a better team around him helps cover his weaknesses.

For example, Liverpool with Salah, Mane, Fabinho and VVD are able to carry a defensively poor but insanely creative Right Back and still be successful, why? Because they have the attack to take full advantage of his creativity and a defense capable of covering his weaknesses. This is what we need for Bruno and the fact is even without him we'd still need the same to compete at the top level so the onus is on the club to keep improving like it should and be in a better position to utilize Bruno's talents in and around the opponent's goal.
Maybe you’re right and I’m wrong, mate. I just don’t think Bruno Fernandes is good enough or smart enough to play for a top team. Well, start for one, anyway. He’d be a useful super sub.
 

roonster09

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Of course. It’s no coincidence our form in the “big games” nosedived after his arrival. Taking care of the ball is key in big games, and, with Bruno, we treat the ball like an acme dynamite stick.
Yeah, before Bruno's arrival we took care of ball awesomely against big games, averaging 30% possession.
 

Yagami

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Yeah, before Bruno's arrival we took care of ball awesomely against big games, averaging 30% possession.
That's the common misconception. It's not about possession. It's about, when getting the ball, using it to the best of your ability. That's why we were so devastating on the counter in those games. When we got the ball, we didn't instantly give it back 75% of the time. Even with Lingard stinking up the place as a 10 because he'd still try to keep the ball so we could build attacks/counters.
 

RedRonaldo

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72% passing rate, 51 passes. Our other "creative" players: Pogba 76% (38), Sancho 89% (28).
I think you need to watch the game in order to understand the "quality" of his pass or "feck ups" he is having. Stats along doesn't tell you that.

His general play was shockingly bad last game, he deserves not more than 1/10 in first half, but he did create 2 chances in 2nd half and 1 of them is an assist too, so he is not too bad on that part.

I think during his poor form, he is still an momental impactful player with his final balls, but with poor general play. We can't put a few meaningful pass together on the final third consistently, and I think as AM and playing a central role in the team, that's big part on him.
 

kouroux

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Bruno is a player with immense ability, there is no doubt about that. I think he has to find a better balance between risk/safety if Man Utd is to improve as a team in general.
Too many times in key moments, he goes for a high risk/low reward optiont hat makes us lose the ball instantly.
The best teams in the world find ways to control games and Bruno showed he can do that in snippets (when he came on as a sub vs Atalanta is the best example of how he changed the game for us by striking a good balance in his game). I really wish he would try to emulate that performance more often
 

SmashedHombre

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Bruno is a player with immense ability, there is no doubt about that. I think he has to find a better balance between risk/safety if Man Utd is to improve as a team in general.
Too many times in key moments, he goes for a high risk/low reward optiont hat makes us lose the ball instantly.
The best teams in the world find ways to control games and Bruno showed he can do that in snippets (when he came on as a sub vs Atalanta is the best example of how he changed the game for us by striking a good balance in his game). I really wish he would try to emulate that performance more often
I suspect he is playing with as much risk as he has been instructed. If it fails 9 times and works once then you're winning.
 

roonster09

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That's the common misconception. It's not about possession. It's about, when getting the ball, using it to the best of your ability. That's why we were so devastating on the counter in those games. When we got the ball, we didn't instantly give it back 75% of the time. Even with Lingard stinking up the place as a 10 because he'd still try to keep the ball so we could build attacks/counters.
We were so devastating as we had Martial, Greenwood, Rashford in top form, form of their life. Now all of them are average to shit. We have Ronaldo who can barely run without falling down, not a single CF who can hold the ball like Martial or a winger to make runs like Rashford.
 

Yagami

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We were so devastating as we had Martial, Greenwood, Rashford in top form, form of their life. Now all of them are average to shit. We have Ronaldo who can barely run without falling down, not a single CF who can hold the ball like Martial or a winger to make runs like Rashford.
Not so much Greenwood at the time in big games. Rashford and Martial, yes, but they were joined by Lingard and James usually, with Fred and McTominay behind. Not great, but so much better than now because, the rare times we got the ball in those games, we played as a team instead of giving it to one person in the hope they do something. No one went Hollywood mode.

I don't rate McTominay and Fred highly, and obviously think Bruno is a flat out better player than both, but, in the return leg, I think we'd be better off with playing those two ahead of Matic in a three instead of a two with Bruno as the 10.
 

roonster09

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Not so much Greenwood at the time in big games. Rashford and Martial, yes, but they were joined by Lingard and James usually, with Fred and McTominay behind. Not great, but so much better than now because, the rare times we got the ball in those games, we played as a team instead of giving it to one person in the hope they do something. No one went Hollywood mode.

I don't rate McTominay and Fred highly, and obviously think Bruno is a flat out better player than both, but, in the return leg, I think we'd be better off with playing those two ahead of Matic in a three instead of a two with Bruno as the 10.
We played Chelsea with James on the bench, we didn't beat Liverpool and Arsenal. We beat Spurs and City thanks to Rashford and Martial. That's first half of the season.

Second half we had Bruno, we beat Chelsea and City.

It wasn't so devastating as you think. It was because of 2 young players in superb form who made the difference, to an extent James too. Not fecking Lingard or AP.

If Rashford and Martial were in similar form we would have beaten these big teams too, both complimented each other well. It has nothing to do with Bruno.

Also no l, rare times we got the ball we didn't protect it. We looked for quick counter playing direct passes. Difference was we had James and Rashford with their pace to hurt the team, now we don't have that pace.
 

Yagami

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We played Chelsea with James on the bench, we didn't beat Liverpool and Arsenal. We beat Spurs and City thanks to Rashford and Martial. That's first half of the season.

Second half we had Bruno, we beat Chelsea and City.

It wasn't so devastating as you think. It was because of 2 young players in superb form who made the difference, to an extent James too. Not fecking Lingard or AP.

If Rashford and Martial were in similar form we would have beaten these big teams too, both complimented each other well. It has nothing to do with Bruno.

Also no l, rare times we got the ball we didn't protect it. We looked for quick counter playing direct passes. Difference was we had James and Rashford with their pace to hurt the team, now we don't have that pace.
That's why I said "usually" . I know they didn't play all the time, but still less than I remembered. Also, his games against City and Chelsea were the same as last nights. He was terrible in both, but got an assist in both (thanks to Martial's magic in both) so maybe we would win more if he still had better players carrying him. I'll give you that one.

I didn't think that team was that devastating at all, really. Just better than now because we played as a team. Also, looking after the ball doesn't mean just keeping possession. It means playing the right passes at the right times, which we did more often than now where Bruno loses it every other minute.
 

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He's having a season very similar to Rashford last season. Goals and assists covering up some shocking performances. Made less palatable due to his theatrics. If he's on his game in the second leg , we will win.
 

roonster09

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That's why I said "usually" . I know they didn't play all the time, but still less than I remembered. Also, his games against City and Chelsea were the same as last nights. He was terrible in both, but got an assist in both (thanks to Martial's magic in both) so maybe we would win more if he still had better players carrying him. I'll give you that one.

I didn't think that team was that devastating at all, really. Just better than now because we played as a team. Also, looking after the ball doesn't mean just keeping possession. It means playing the right passes at the right times, which we did more often than now where Bruno loses it every other minute.
Carrying him? :lol:
 

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Haven't checked it properly, but it feels like he's terrible involvements usually happen further back on the pitch. And opposite, he's great just ahead of the defensive line.

That said, it's terrible by everyone. Fred, Pogba, Maguire etc all give away the ball a lot too.
We simply don't succeed keeping possession under pressure in the middle, regardless of who's playing.
 

cyberman

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7 assists in 6 games, 2 off the season record and we only played the first round of 16 game.
Over all CL games for us it’s 12 goal contributions in 12 games. Including Europa its 21 goal contributions in 21 games.
maybe we have become blasé towards a world class number 10 doing wonders for us or else I don’t understand the criticism here.
 

antk

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I'm not sure he's always been this wasteful, even if crazy low-chance passes have been a part of his game since day one.

I don't know if he's looking for Ronaldo too much because he's Ronaldo or if he has always been putting out those exact passes before and other players could reach them better than Ronaldo. In any case the amount of times he tries a half-pitch forward pass for it to amount to nothing is unacceptable and should be coached out.
 

cyberman

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I'm not sure he's always been this wasteful, even if crazy low-chance passes have been a part of his game since day one.

I don't know if he's looking for Ronaldo too much because he's Ronaldo or if he has always been putting out those exact passes before and other players could reach them better than Ronaldo. In any case the amount of times he tries a half-pitch forward pass for it to amount to nothing is unacceptable and should be coached out.
Rangnick has said we didn’t try enough vertical balls to unsettle Atletico. It’s by design.
 

antk

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Rangnick has said we didn’t try enough vertical balls to unsettle Atletico. It’s by design.
Throwing the ball where no player can't reach it can't be by design. You need a player either receiving the ball or pressuring the defense while they intercept for a pass to exist or a play to occur, and it was too many times way off the mark last evening.
 

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Like Pogba he suffers with his general play vs good pressing teams. Our off the ball movement is crap though so its no surprise.
 

cyberman

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Throwing the ball where no player can't reach it can't be by design. You need a player either receiving the ball or pressuring the defense while they intercept for a pass to exist or a play to occur, and it was too many times way off the mark last evening.
Our players have been ordered to try it though. Maybe he’s trying to force it a bit too much but that’s down to the lethargic nature of the players meant to be running into space like Rashford etc as well?
Ralph also complained that we didn’t take enough risks last night and played too safe, not confident enough to try something.
We complain but we don’t know what the instructions are. Listening to the actual manager last night makes me believe this is what is asked of Bruno and, to be fair, he is a player who literally guarantees us a goal a game at the highest level of club football. Nobody made runs last night, Bruno struggled to find them. The one time a player ran in behind and Bruno stuck a chance on a plate for him.
 

the_cliff

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I suspect he is playing with as much risk as he has been instructed. If it fails 9 times and works once then you're winning.
I agree, however against teams that are good in possession like the City's and Liverpool's we could be 3-0 down by the time it 'works once', possession also helps limit the other teams ability to be a threat and giving away needless possession to teams like Newcastle and Leeds is alright, but against City and Liverpool it's suicidal.

One of the reasons why he's usually terrible against the big sides and one of the reasons we've struggled against them this season.
 

Isotope

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I think you need to watch the game in order to understand the "quality" of his pass or "feck ups" he is having. Stats along doesn't tell you that.

His general play was shockingly bad last game, he deserves not more than 1/10 in first half, but he did create 2 chances in 2nd half and 1 of them is an assist too, so he is not too bad on that part.

I think during his poor form, he is still an momental impactful player with his final balls, but with poor general play. We can't put a few meaningful pass together on the final third consistently, and I think as AM and playing a central role in the team, that's big part on him.
I did watch the game. But did you read the post i was replying to?
 

Greck

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I suspect he is playing with as much risk as he has been instructed. If it fails 9 times and works once then you're winning.
Those are terrible percentages you can't win with, not the actual percentage, I know it's an example but still you're not winning with terrible possession quality. Giving the ball back to the best teams increases your likelihood of conceding. You'll be down 3 before the one final ball clicks.

It's not as big a concern in the average game but starts to slide from non-concern to huge liability the better the opponent. This also goes for Pogba for what it's worth so other Bruno fans need to stop being defensive, two people can limit our play, shocker. We could go ultradefensive and center our entire gameplan around zero control but people don't want that, that's why we need to be better with possession if we ever want to go toe to toe with other great teams. In the big games we'll be incredibly limited.
 
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cyberman

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Those are terrible percentages you can't win with, not the actual percentage, I know it's an example but still you're not winning with terrible possession quality. Giving the ball back to the best teams increases your likelihood of conceding. You'll be down 3 before the one final ball clicks.

It's not as big a concern in the average game but starts to slide from non-concern to huge liability the better the opponent. This also goes for Pogba for what it's worth so other Bruno fans need to stop being defensive, two people can limit our play, shocker. We could go ultradefensive and center our entire gameplan around zero control but people don't want that, that's why we need to be better with possession if we ever want to go toe to toe with other great teams. In the big games we'll be incredibly limited.
We donated possession last night
 

Greck

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We donated possession last night
This is a huge reason stats are being dissed in the thread. I am discussing quality of possession, especially as it pertains to Bruno, not the raw number. Not even about raw pass completion percentage either.

edit too many words on my part, this first bit was honestly enough. It's not about the numbers, it's about everything around them.
 
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Yagami

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Another big game, another hindrance of a performance.

If he's not losing the ball with terrible passes he's losing it by being easily outmuscled resulting in him playacting to try and cover up his errors.

The sooner the club realises he's not that good, the better. No team is challenging for anything major with him in it.
 

11101

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I'm beginning to worry he is our Gerrard.

An exceptional talent who can win a game on his own as long as he is given absolute freedom, but he can't play within a structure that's required to be a top team. Watching him you notice he pops up everywhere and it can't be easy for the team not knowing where the gaps are going to appear.

Ole was hopeless tactically so was happy to set up a basic side and let Bruno do his thing but Ralf is implementing a proper system and Bruno is struggling with it.
 

jesperjaap

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This game highlights how laughable it is people saying Fernandes is a good as DeBruyne with all these stats. Im genuinely wondering if the honeymoon is over. He was great for a few months, at his verybest and everything coming off. Now he is shoddy, moody, he is the Portugese player version of a decade of Mourinho in 2 years.

He justisnt on the same level as DeBruyne, he isnt world class and he isnt untouchable
 

matt23

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Awful.

I'm a huge fan, but his performance against Madrid and City today have really started to make me question if he needs to be replaced with every other fecker in the team.
 

Adisa

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I would sell him for a good offer. Not because I think he's a poor player. I think he'd be horrific under Ten Hag who plays a patient intricate style.
I think hes technically average although still a good player.
 

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Again, please let me know which games Pogba has been MOTM for MANCHESTER UNITED. When were these games? 7 years ago?

So we are now living of a MOTM performance 7 years ago?

So are you saying in the Europa league final Pogba played well? let me give you a friendly reminder that Pogba played in that game too.

Also you have named teams Pogba has been MOTM, which is a lie, show me the games for United that he has been MOTM against Liverpool.

Bruno has scored in the games too, so Pogba MOTM against Liverpool, Chelsea, City is big game, but Bruno scoring and assisting in them games is small games? Hypocrite much?
I told you he was shite in big games.

He's played athletico and man city now and was shite in both games like I predicted and guess what?
He'll be shit against athletico(return leg) and Liverpool as well.
 

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I would sell him for a good offer. Not because I think he's a poor player. I think he'd be horrific under Ten Hag who plays a patient intricate style.
I think hes technically average although still a good player.
I am sure you are right. Don't know about the selling part but Bruno needs a certain environment to flourish and I am not sure we can provide him with that while hitting other objectives as well. Today I thought he wasn't moaning as much but he seems to think that every touch he makes needs to be an assist. His builtup play is lacking quite a bit.
 

Canagel

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Another big game, another hindrance of a performance.

If he's not losing the ball with terrible passes he's losing it by being easily outmuscled resulting in him playacting to try and cover up his errors.

The sooner the club realises he's not that good, the better. No team is challenging for anything major with him in it.
Dont worry, his defenders will be coming in with the Opta spreadsheets any moment now.
 

Wolf1992

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Dont worry, his defenders will be coming in with the Opta spreadsheets any moment now.
Bruno would have been an idol for Man Utd in the 60s, so only people who went to the stadium would watch him, the rest would only read about his stats in the newspaper.