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Jeppers7

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I was thinking, how would he excell under Fergie? Will he get into our 99/08 starting-11s? And where will he play? Which player he is gonna replace?

What do you guys think?
He’d take Teddy’s place in 99..No way he’s playing in a midfield 2 and even if he did he’s nowhere near the level of any of the four in that midfield.

08 is interesting because he’s obviously a level above Carrick....but he couldn’t play that role. He isn’t getting in front of Rooney...so he either plays from the left like Tevez or he is backup to Rooney.
 

Hammondo

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He’d take Teddy’s place in 99..No way he’s playing in a midfield 2 and even if he did he’s nowhere near the level of any of the four in that midfield.

08 is interesting because he’s obviously a level above Carrick....but he couldn’t play that role. He isn’t getting in front of Rooney...so he either plays from the left like Tevez or he is backup to Rooney.
I would pick him instead of Rooney in the AM role.
 

eire-red

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Bruno is tricky to categorize because even though he puts himself about, a lot of times he's a pseudo forward (especially when he's playing with Pogba), not an honest-to-goodness midfielder...


For comparison's sake, Bobby Charlton scored 29 goals in the season following the Munich air disaster; but, he was supposed to be a barnstorming inside/central forward or outside left in 2—3—5 schemes back then, not a deep-lying forward or midfield maestro (at first team level his transition to a more sustained midfield role was concurrent with the ascent of Best).

At any rate, Bruno should be able to breach the hallowed 30 goals mark if we make deep forays in cup competitions — that should put him in the company of peak Rooney, who scored 34 goals in two separate seasons as a center-forward and was our highest seasonal-scorer for the 2010s — and the 6th highest overall after Law², Cristiano and van Nistelrooy² (tied with Taylor from 1956/57).
Very interesting to see that. It's noticeable that Bruno has to vacate the middle in order to receive the ball from McTominay and Fred. When Pogba plays, his ability to beat a man and his vision to thread a pass means Bruno can sit tight in those central areas because he knows the ball will eventually come.

The beauty of Bruno is that he's not system reliant, or reliant on others. Even when coming from those wider areas, he's able to influence the game. For me, I think the problem arises when, for example, Bruno drifts to the left and Rashford doesn't move infield to occupy the space Bruno has left. Or McTominay and Fred don't push forward either.

That happens too often, and we find our attacks are easily nullified because we have no space to work with.
 

ghaliboy

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I was thinking, how would he excell under Fergie? Will he get into our 99/08 starting-11s? And where will he play? Which player he is gonna replace?

What do you guys think?
Good shout. I think he would have been really good as a crossfade player to the Anderson role lung busting into the box driving the team forward. Supplementing the types of roles that Cleverley had as well would have been interesting to see. He would have been the perfect Fergie player.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Bruno is tricky to categorize because even though he puts himself about, a lot of times he's a pseudo forward (especially when he's playing with Pogba), not an honest-to-goodness midfielder...

Surely the difference between those two heat maps is mainly driven by the opposition? Matic tends to get picked against weaker teams so when he plays our whole team will tend to spend much more time camped in the opposition half and Bruno gets much more touches than he does when we play against stronger teams.
 

11101

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In 08 Rooney was not an AM.
We didn't really play with an AM in 2008.

The only job Bruno could do of that front 3 was Rooney's, and as good as he is, he's not that good. Rooney was a force that season and only outshone by a Ballon D'Or winning Ronaldo.
 

Redlyn

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In 08 he'd play instead of Tevez I guess but deeper, in a system that allows for no 10.
 

Redlyn

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Tevez is twice the footballer. He wouldn’t be anywhere near him.
Well twice the footballer or not Bruno is operating at a G+A per match level, hard to see past that.
 
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Tevez is twice the footballer. He wouldn’t be anywhere near him.
im a fan of Tevez (the footballer, not his attitude) - but that’s complete rubbish.

I think you can have a good argument about who is the better player, but one is certainly not massively better than the other.
 

acnumber9

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Surely the difference between those two heat maps is mainly driven by the opposition? Matic tends to get picked against weaker teams so when he plays our whole team will tend to spend much more time camped in the opposition half and Bruno gets much more touches than he does when we play against stronger teams.
If you click on the tweet you’ll see another below it says there isn’t a big difference when adjusting for games against big teams and smaller teams. Surely it’s obvious that Pogba and Matic are better on the ball than the other two?
 

Pogue Mahone

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If you click on the tweet you’ll see another below it says there isn’t a big difference when adjusting for games against big teams and smaller teams. Surely it’s obvious that Pogba and Matic are better on the ball than the other two?
And there’s a tweet below that one questioning his “big games adjustment” seeing as the only teams in the top half Matic-Pogba started against last season was Sheffield and Spurs. Have they started any big games together this season?
 

acnumber9

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And there’s a tweet below that one questioning his “big games adjustment” seeing as the only teams in the top half Matic-Pogba started against last season was Sheffield and Spurs. Have they started any big games together this season?
Spurs this season as well. I assumed that he meant the heat maps didn’t change much for Fred and McTominay but without knowing his data it’s hard to know whether any of it is right anyway. It’s how I feel watching games though. Fred and McTominay aren’t as good on the ball as the other two. And that’s a problem because Matic is too old and Pogba blows hot and cold and is likely leaving anyway.
 

Bwuk

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I was thinking, how would he excell under Fergie? Will he get into our 99/08 starting-11s? And where will he play? Which player he is gonna replace?

What do you guys think?
In 08 I think he'd get in ahead of Nani/Giggs/Park. The forward line was fluent anyway.

Edwin
Brown - Rio - Vidic - Evra
Carrick - Scholes
Ronaldo - Rooney - Bruno
Tevez​

For 99 it's harder. I can't see him playing CM, nor can I see him displacing Giggs or Beckham out wide. Yorke was outstanding that year and was more of a 10 than Cole. Not sure how he fits. He'd be ahead of Sheringham anyway.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Spurs this season as well. I assumed that he meant the heat maps didn’t change much for Fred and McTominay but without knowing his data it’s hard to know whether any of it is right anyway. It’s how I feel watching games though. Fred and McTominay aren’t as good on the ball as the other two. And that’s a problem because Matic is too old and Pogba blows hot and cold and is likely leaving anyway.
They all have different qualities but I agree that Matic and Pogba are more consistently accurate passers of the ball than the other two. Plus Matic has the best defensive positional sense of any CM in our squad.

I just don’t think those heat maps tell us anything useful when we have such a small sample size - primarily against weak opposition- for the Pogba-Matic data.
 

Mainoldo

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He wasn't in 08.

He was twice the grafter maybe (though Bruno works his socks off), but certainly not twice the footballer.
Im respectfully not even going to debate who was a better player between Carlos Tevez and Bruno Fernandes.

It shouldn’t even be a debate. I don’t think anyone would ever debate if Ruud Van Nistelrooy is better than Andy Cole we should treat things fairly.
 

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Im respectfully not even going to debate who was a better player between Carlos Tevez and Bruno Fernandes.

It shouldn’t even be a debate. I don’t think anyone would ever debate if Ruud Van Nistelrooy is better than Andy Cole we should treat things fairly.
For me Tevez time with us is massively overrated. He was a FAR better player for City then he ever was with us.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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For me Tevez time with us is massively overrated. He was a FAR better player for City then he ever was with us.
This.

On paper it should have clicked far better than it did but he was certainly on another level at Citeh & more so, Juve than he got to with us.
 

acnumber9

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They all have different qualities but I agree that Matic and Pogba are more consistently accurate passers of the ball than the other two. Plus Matic has the best defensive positional sense of any CM in our squad.

I just don’t think those heat maps tell us anything useful when we have such a small sample size - primarily against weak opposition- for the Pogba-Matic data.
Yeah, he’s probably found what he wanted to find. But I do feel that the Fred and McTominay pairing hasn’t been working in the big games this season so time to try something different. Pogba and Matic had to be dropped after the Spurs game but we need to start actually trying to win those kind of games again.
 

Pogue Mahone

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For me Tevez time with us is massively overrated. He was a FAR better player for City then he ever was with us.
Absolutely. And Fernandes has already been twice the player for us than Tevez ever was. Tevez has to be one of the most over-rated players ever to pull on a United shirt. Before, during and after his time at the club.

Hell of a player after he sacked us off and started playing for City/Juve, obviously, but that’s not what’s being discussed.
 

Mainoldo

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For me Tevez time with us is massively overrated. He was a FAR better player for City then he ever was with us.
Of course he was. That’s because Rooney and Ronaldo was better than him. He didn’t have that at City. He still gave us what we needed. But to think Bruno could come into this 08 side and. Play to Rooney and Ronaldo’s level without looking like baby food, is just disrespectful.

Come on man we watched that football.. it was two levels above what we see now.
 

NinjaFletch

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They all have different qualities but I agree that Matic and Pogba are more consistently accurate passers of the ball than the other two. Plus Matic has the best defensive positional sense of any CM in our squad.

I just don’t think those heat maps tell us anything useful when we have such a small sample size - primarily against weak opposition- for the Pogba-Matic data.
I don't think they do either, but I think it is noticeable when Bruno plays with Pogba that he stays higher up the pitch.

I don't think it really helps Bruno either. He's better off when he roams around the pitch and gets involved. Bruno is a player that you want to have lots of actions because for every good pass you're going to get a bad one, and I think with Pogba he becomes a bit peripheral.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Of course he was. That’s because Rooney and Ronaldo was better than him. He didn’t have that at City. He still gave us what we needed. But to think Bruno could come into this 08 side and. Play to Rooney and Ronaldo’s level without looking like baby food, is just disrespectful.

Come on man we watched that football.. it was two levels above what we see now.
You seem to be implying that Fernandes couldn’t cope with the level of football being played by a team that featured regular contributions from the likes of Owen Hargreaves, Park Ji-Sung, Nani and Anderson. Something isn’t adding up here.
 

Mainoldo

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You seem to be implying that Fernandes couldn’t cope with the level of football being played by a team that featured regular contributions from the likes of Owen Hargreaves, Park Ji-Sung, Nani and Anderson. Something isn’t adding up here.
Sorry so Bruno would be doing the role of them players?

Let me know how that works? He playing Right wing and doing the athletic work of Park? I’m not sure you would rate him as highly if he’s there not scoring penalties as CR7 takes them. Or providing different types of assist as he won’t be having a free role as CR7 would have that.

I just think people aren’t being realistic. Bruno’s good but he’s not that good.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Sorry so Bruno would be doing the role of them players?

Let me know how that works? He playing Right wing and doing the athletic work of Park? I’m not sure you would rate him as highly if he’s there not scoring penalties as CR7 takes them. Or providing different types of assist as he won’t be having a free role as CR7 would have that.

I just think people aren’t being realistic. Bruno’s good but he’s not that good.
Believe me, the fact he takes penalties is not the reason I rate him highly.

In terms of players from that squad he could have been a MASSIVE upgrade on, Anderson is the most obvious. It also wouldn’t be difficult for him to improve on Tevez’ contribution.
 

Jeppers7

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In 08 I think he'd get in ahead of Nani/Giggs/Park. The forward line was fluent anyway.

Edwin
Brown - Rio - Vidic - Evra
Carrick - Scholes
Ronaldo - Rooney - Bruno
Tevez​

For 99 it's harder. I can't see him playing CM, nor can I see him displacing Giggs or Beckham out wide. Yorke was outstanding that year and was more of a 10 than Cole. Not sure how he fits. He'd be ahead of Sheringham anyway.
We didn’t play like that though in 08. We played around Ronaldo. No way would I change the formation around Bruno and have Ronaldo as a right winger. Also Carrick and Scholes would get overrun massively.
 

Mainoldo

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Believe me, the fact he takes penalties is not the reason I rate him highly.

In terms of players from that squad he could have been a MASSIVE upgrade on, Anderson is the most obvious. It also wouldn’t be difficult for him to improve on Tevez’ contribution.
But how you can’t say he’s an upgrade on Anderson and then say he’ll improve Tevez contribution. We didn’t play with a number 10 and Anderson came in playing as a CM even though he use to be a 10. He’d play as CM but he wouldn’t have been asked to do an attacking role. I can’t remember who got given that role tbf. The midfield was very well balanced. I think he’s a good number 8 though if given the chance. Yes he’d be better than Anderson but that’s exactly where he fits in with the 08 team.
 

Brightonian

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For me Tevez time with us is massively overrated. He was a FAR better player for City then he ever was with us.
Agreed. Tevez was a great player with us but let's not forget it was regularly debated whether he or Berbatov should be playing. He only became a proper worldbeater when City made him their main man. He didn't get that role at United because he was never the equal of Rooney or Ronaldo.

I'd take Bruno now over United-era Tevez.
 

lost7

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This guy as a midfielder has 15 goals and 10 assists. These are insane number no matter how you spin it. I think as a fanbase we should be more appreciative of what he's done since he's arrived tbh
 

POF

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We didn’t play like that though in 08. We played around Ronaldo. No way would I change the formation around Bruno and have Ronaldo as a right winger. Also Carrick and Scholes would get overrun massively.
That's exactly how they played in 2008, although you could argue Rooney/Tevez were more a front 2 than a pure 9 and a 10.

Switch the wingers and change Bruno to Hargreaves and that's the team that played in the Champions League final.

As for where Bruno would play in thst team. He'd easily start as number 10 behind Rooney with Tevez on the bench. His creativity would add another dimension to that team.

The fluidity and cohesion of the attacking play of that team is remembered more fondly than it really was. In reality, they relied very heavily on Ronaldo's individual brilliance and it's why Fergie tried to add a different dimension in Berbatov when he knew Ronaldo was leaving.
 

Jeppers7

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That's exactly how they played in 2008, although you could argue Rooney/Tevez were more a front 2 than a pure 9 and a 10.

Switch the wingers and change Bruno to Hargreaves and that's the team that played in the Champions League final.

As for where Bruno would play in thst team. He'd easily start as number 10 behind Rooney with Tevez on the bench. His creativity would add another dimension to that team.

The fluidity and cohesion of the attacking play of that team is remembered more fondly than it really was. In reality, they relied very heavily on Ronaldo's individual brilliance and it's why Fergie tried to add a different dimension in Berbatov when he knew Ronaldo was leaving.
It’s not we played 433 fluid formation that could also be 451 when we defended. We didn’t play 4231. It was usually Hargreaves, Giggs, park who played as third midfielder I can’t see Bruno doing that role. I can see him taking Tevez place on the left. I’m not sure he would be a better fit though.
 

tomaldinho1

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It’s not we played 433 fluid formation that could also be 451 when we defended. We didn’t play 4231. It was usually Hargreaves, Giggs, park who played as third midfielder I can’t see Bruno doing that role. I can see him taking Tevez place on the left. I’m not sure he would be a better fit though.
I agree - I don't see how he gets into either team because his role is so unique. He's the most heavily accommodated player I can remember and, though no fault of his own, he'd downgrade either the 08 or 99 team because he just doesn't fit
 
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I agree - I don't see how he gets into either team because his role is so unique. He's the most heavily accommodated player I can remember and, though no fault of his own, he'd downgrade either the 08 or 99 team because he just doesn't fit
I agree. It’s no slight on Bruno. I also don’t think you can fit in Cantona into either of those teams.