[SER19]

So his lack of composure, ridiculous wastefulness (something we'd been warned about before he arrived here), and overall chaotic disposition is the fault of his teammates? He's probably our best player, but he's more than played a part in the shitshow of the past few years.

No this argument wants it both ways i feel. We demand so much of one player that any faults of his are far too consequential. The exact same version of fernandes but in a functional team is a completely different player

 

[The_Midfielder]

As soon as he moved to midfield , we started playing better

 

[M16Red]

Captain of the worst man utd team I've ever seen, 15th in the league.

Congratulations

 

[NZT-One]

No this argument wants it both ways i feel. We demand so much of one player that any faults of his are far too consequential. The exact same version of fernandes but in a functional team is a completely different player

Yeah, based on "sounds plausible". Because there is no way of proving such claims. There are basically the equivalent of "no top team would play him".

 

[Locke]

4 good moments. 45 bad ones. Hopefully Amorin will get rid in the summer. Taking the armband of him mid season doesn't work either but he's never a captain.

 

[AR87]

He won't be a part of the squad by the time we can realistically challenge for major titles, but he is vital for us atm and we have far more pressing needs like getting somebody who can progress from deep either in the backline or in midfield so that we're not reliant on him to do so.

Mixed bag for him today, but probably the best alongside Dorgu of an overall poor lot. That's our level for the time being until we finish overhauling this squad which will take at least another full year, and likely not until summer 2026.

 

[Isotope]

You can tell he's not a natural central midfielder, but he's the best we have now as a progressive midfielder.

Just like years ago, we knew that we needed an Eriksen with leg - and now we also need an Eriksen with more physicality on that midfield.

 

[SER19]

Yeah, based on "sounds plausible". Because there is no way of proving such claims. There are basically the equivalent of "no top team would play him".

You hear ferdinand and Duncan Ferguson here. Other players too an ex players. He is quite plainly head and shoulders above all around him. Its simple to understand that good players make good players better. That's literally what makes teams good. You simply cannot be infuriated by fernandes while also having a problem with rashford, sancho, hojlund, weghorst, aged Ronaldo, Fred, mctominay, aged casemiro. He has been surrounded by such utter mediocrity for so long.

 

[Dan_F]

He should be in Zirkee’s position. He’s playing in midfield because if he doesn’t, we have no way of bringing the ball out higher than out centre backs.

Even when he was playing more advanced today, he was needing to drop so deep.

 

[Ace of Spades]

He had a decent 20 minutes after the free kick.

He lost the ball today 30 times and gave away the ball in the 93rd minute from the midfield with a backpass to an Everton player just outside the penalty area. There's no way that 2nd half performance can be described as excellent for that moment alone.

Agreed. Could not believe the stupidity to do that at the end of the game.

I think we need to cash in on him in the next window. His performances have been getting worse. The biggest positive is that he is always available and not injury prone, but to have a captain that is performing like this is not good.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

This mentality led to him making the pass that almost ending in us conceding a penalty in the dying minutes. No doubt, we'd be a better team if every member of the squad had his determination but lets also not act as if this is his only character trait. He was rushing it a lot today. A lot. And it directly fueled the frantic character of the game. People complain about Amorim playing so many defensive players yet seemingly fail to see that even with that we can't exude any form of rhythm and control in our game. Obviously thats not just on Bruno but he is a massive part of it.

I’ve already acknowledged that he was below par, so what else is there to say? However, he was still a key factor in helping us get back into the game, and more often than not, it’s him who provides the spark when we need it most. Some might argue that’s the issue—that our talisman should be more consistent—but for now, we simply don’t have anyone better.

 

[NZT-One]

You hear ferdinand and Duncan Ferguson here. Other players too an ex players. He is quite plainly head and shoulders above all around him. Its simple to understand that good players make good players better. That's literally what makes teams good. You simply cannot be infuriated by fernandes while also having a problem with rashford, sancho, hojlund, weghorst, aged Ronaldo, Fred, mctominay, aged casemiro. He has been surrounded by such utter mediocrity for so long.

His team mates are bad, no doubt about that. But that doesn't make him automatically better than he is. He is a very good attacking midfielder given that he really has an eye for a pass and a very good vision-and-quickness-to-execution but he also is weak, he isn't good with the ball at his feet and he has a huge tendency of rushing play and dumb passes from risky areas. with such weaknesses, he might still be our best player but given that this squad is so subpar for years, how is that any form of real compliment.

Just look at other team - who else has a player like Bruno? Who is good with passing but is bad at dribbling OR physiscally weak? There are next to none for a reason. Because the areas those players operate in will always be defended with pressure and if you have issues dealing with that, you and your team will struggle for it. I guess most top teams would happily take the individual numbers in terms of assists and progressive passes he can get but pretty sure many teams will be happy to pass him on as the upside isn't worth the downside.

I’ve already acknowledged that he was below par, so what else is there to say? However, he was still a key factor in helping us get back into the game, and more often than not, it’s him who provides the spark when we need it most. Some might argue that’s the issue—that our talisman should be more consistent—but for now, we simply don’t have anyone better.

Fair enough. Nothing to argue with in this take, just thought it was odd to single out the mentality when it could have been a factor in us losing in the last seconds of the game.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

what exactly was excellent about any of the performances today?! I mean, I know statman dave will tweet something and 07 will rush to put it in but I'd be interested what the excellent part was?

Fantastic goal. Good work rate from him when we were being countered near the end. That nutmeg and cross which led to the handball appeal was excellent.

Poor first half from him though, other than a couple of moments of link up play with Dorgu.

 

[Cloudface]

He was shite for 99% of the game. Weak and slow whilst constantly giving the ball away in dangerous positions.

Good free kick though.

 

[SER19]

His team mates are bad, no doubt about that. But that doesn't make him automatically better than he is. He is a very good attacking midfielder given that he really has an eye for a pass and a very good vision-and-quickness-to-execution but he also is weak, he isn't good with the ball at his feet and he has a huge tendency of rushing play and dumb passes from risky areas. with such weaknesses, he might still be our best player but given that this squad is so subpar for years, how is that any form of real compliment.

Just look at other team - who else has a player like Bruno? Who is good with passing but is bad at dribbling OR physiscally weak? There are next to none for a reason. Because the areas those players operate in will always be defended with pressure and if you have issues dealing with that, you and your team will struggle for it. I guess most top teams would happily take the individual numbers in terms of assists and progressive passes he can get but pretty sure many teams will be happy to pass him on as the upside isn't worth the downside.

Fair enough. Nothing to argue with in this take, just thought it was odd to single out the mentality when it could have been a factor in us losing in the last seconds of the game.

This is going to be a circular argument. I see your point and am not discounting limits in his game, but rushing, bad passes and chaos are all symptoms of a poorly functioning team. You watch the very very best and they're not even looking at eachother - they just know where teammates are, where their teammate wants it, everything just flows in a well drilled team. He has never had that luxury around him. When he goes chaosmode when trailing it's infuriating but honestly these days it's him or nobody. If he was at that when surrounded by Carrick, Scholes, Keane, or even Fletcher and all those brilliant hard working brave players, then fair enough - but hes been surrounded by quitters who simply do not want the pressure, for the most part

 

[Scandi Red]

He is quite plainly head and shoulders above all around him.

Agree. The narrative that he's a part of the problem should have been killed a long time ago. Some players around will have a good season here and there, but the only constant is Bruno.

- 3x POTY (and you could argue that he deserves 4). Highly likely to win it this season too.
- An annual average of roughly 33 goals and assists
- Consistently creates the most chances in European top football
- Almost 3 times as many defensive contributions as his comparable peers
- Practically never injured
- By all accounts an excellent leader and personality off the pitch
- One of the standout performers in the FA cup final win against City, which is one of the biggest highlights post Fergie

Yes he moans. Yes he dives. Yes he makes mistakes. But who wouldn't when surrounded by this many clowns? We're beyond lucky to have him. Go to any thread on /r/soccer where Bruno scored or assisted and you are almost guaranteed to find a highly upvoted comment from a rival fan saying that Bruno has carried United for ages or simply wasted his career playing for us.

 

[NZT-One]

The narrative that he's a part of the problem should have been killed a long time ago.

Such takes are the reason why this thread goes bizarre as often as it does. How can anybody watch todays game and come away with the conclusion that one particular player is just the victim of his team mates. If this isn't agenda stuff, what exactly is?!

edit: right, just use the opinions of rival fans on reddit. Because they know him as much as the fans of our own club. Makes sense. Cherry picking at its absolute best

 

[Pickle85]

He saves us time and time again. We would be fecked without him the last few years.

It’s because he does so much he gets so noticed

I was expecting to read a thread of praise. The position we're in, that was actually a very important point and he was instrumental to that. We're at such a low point that comeback will hopefully lead to a moral boost. He's a great fighter and clearly cares about the club.

Agreed x2

The problem is people can't separate the good with the bad. Yes he had a couple good attacking moments, but he absolutely cannot play in the deep cm spot. So we have one half focusing on the attacking moments and saying he was world class and the other half focusing on the cm moments and saying he's still crap. It's a middle ground. I still think he has to play further forward he just get bullied and plays dumb shit at cm.

But we looked better when he deeper and got on the ball more

 

[Pickle85]

what exactly was excellent about any of the performances today?! I mean, I know statman dave will tweet something and 07 will rush to put it in but I'd be interested what the excellent part was?

Well, the free kick was pretty excellent, no?

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

He was shite for 99% of the game. Weak and slow whilst constantly giving the ball away in dangerous positions.

Good free kick though.

I’ve seen games where Salah hasn’t been at his best, like the Everton match, but he still manages to pull something special out of nowhere to win the game. Today, that's what Bruno did.

The difference is, Salah has a much stronger team around him, so his flaws aren’t as noticeable. Liverpool tend to win more often, which helps cover up those moments when he’s not playing at his peak.

 

[Pickle85]

what exactly was excellent about any of the performances today?! I mean, I know statman dave will tweet something and 07 will rush to put it in but I'd be interested what the excellent part was?

You know he was given man of the match right

 

[NZT-One]

This is going to be a circular argument. I see your point and am not discounting limits in his game, but rushing, bad passes and chaos are all symptoms of a poorly functioning team.

He is part of that poorly functioning team though. Which is the main point of criticism towards him. So many of his fans want to exclude him and make him the victim of the team. I'd even say he is benefitting from the team the way it was. Over the years, he was afforded so much freedom. A role that helped him play to his strength. His individual numbers look good yet the teams numbers have gone from bad to worse. Maybe the criticism isn't directed to you in this case but there are many fans who seem adamant.

You watch the very very best and they're not even looking at eachother - they just know where teammates are, where their teammate wants it, everything just flows in a well drilled team. He has never had that luxury around him.

Yeah what I said. If he never was in that position, how can you say, he'd be even better? As I said, this is purely based on "sounds plausible".

When he goes chaosmode when trailing it's infuriating but honestly these days it's him or nobody.

His rushed play led to a goal against today and it almost led to a penalty late in the game. Obviously I see your point that we can't not play him, I am not rooting for that. I am rooting for acknowledging the issues some behaviour (not just him, others too) creates and get rid of that in the future.

If he was at that when surrounded by Carrick, Scholes, Keane, or even Fletcher and all those brilliant hard working brave players, then fair enough - but hes been surrounded by quitters who simply do not want the pressure, for the most part

I definitely appreciate his determination and workrate. I really do. But those are just some aspects of a footballer. And in other aspects he just falls short, as much as many of his team mates.

 

[SER19]

Agree. The narrative that he's a part of the problem should have been killed a long time ago. Some players around will have a good season here and there, but the only constant is Bruno.

- 3x POTY (and you could argue that he deserves 4). Highly likely to win it this season too.
- An annual average of roughly 33 goals and assists
- Consistently creates the most chances in European top football
- Almost 3 times as many defensive contributions as his comparable peers
- Practically never injured
- By all accounts an excellent leader and personality off the pitch
- One of the standout performers in the FA cup final win against City, which is one of the biggest highlights post Fergie

Yes he moans. Yes he dives. Yes he makes mistakes. But who wouldn't when surrounded by this many clowns? We're beyond lucky to have him. Go to any thread on /r/soccer where Bruno scored or assisted and you are almost guaranteed to find a highly upvoted comment from a rival fan saying that Bruno has carried United for ages or simply wasted his career playing for us.

Good post, and the key thing for me with him, the thing that annoys me most about his critics - is that this team is absolutely crying out for players who are brave on the ball. Any half decent player can go back and sideways, but there is a bravery in the types of pass but also a courage to WANT the football. To WANT to be the guy who gets the chance to change the game. I feel like when the chips are down, more often than not, you have a team that looks to Bruno and begs him to fix it. Id say only garnacho is also fearless and believes that if he loses the ball, well next time he wont, so he wants it again and again and again. Frankly, you cant have a team of cowards.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

Agreed x2

But we looked better when he deeper and got on the ball more

We looked better when Everton decided to stop playing and just sit back. There's a reason they keep blowing leads like this

 

[bosnian_red]

No idea why he's decided to stay with United so long when he could be playing at elite clubs around. The lure of "you could be the captain to turn it around" just too much and he's a loyal guy, but for his own sake he'd be appreciated so much more elsewhere.

 

[jem]

No this argument wants it both ways i feel. We demand so much of one player that any faults of his are far too consequential. The exact same version of fernandes but in a functional team is a completely different player

But then you wonder if a functional team like Liverpool or Real Madrid would have him in their starting 11 for all the faults mentioned. I haven't watched enough of his Portugal performances, so perhaps some of our Portuguese posters can elaborate on that.

 

[Pickle85]

We looked better when Everton decided to stop playing and just sit back. There's a reason they keep blowing leads like this

So you're discounting Bruno's change of role in our improvement? Just a coincidence then? See this post is absolutely typical of this thread...anything good the side do (and Bruno catalyzes) isn't due to him being good but to something else

 

[NZT-One]

You know he was given man of the match right

I have never used something like that to celebrate or criticize a player for. It is an arbitrary thing to me. As I said, I try not to get distracted by being too selfabsorbed with question like "which of our players was the best today" - especially given that for quite some time it should be "which of our players was the least bad today". I try to compare ourselves with rivals. And I for one have no real clue what Bruno has done today that earned him anything more than for example Doucoure or Garner.

 

[Scandi Red]

Good post, and the key thing for me with him, the thing that annoys me most about his critics - is that this team is absolutely crying out for players who are brave on the ball. Any half decent player can go back and sideways, but there is a bravery in the types of pass but also a courage to WANT the football. To WANT to be the guy who gets the chance to change the game. I feel like when the chips are down, more often than not, you have a team that looks to Bruno and begs him to fix it. Id say only garnacho is also fearless and believes that if he loses the ball, well next time he wont, so he wants it again and again and again. Frankly, you cant have a team of cowards.

Very true.

 

[SER19]

He is part of that poorly functioning team though. Which is the main point of criticism towards him. So many of his fans want to exclude him and make him the victim of the team. I'd even say he is benefitting from the team the way it was. Over the years, he was afforded so much freedom. A role that helped him play to his strength. His individual numbers look good yet the teams numbers have gone from bad to worse. Maybe the criticism isn't directed to you in this case but there are many fans who seem adamant.

Yeah what I said. If he never was in that position, how can you say, he'd be even better? As I said, this is purely based on "sounds plausible".

His rushed play led to a goal against today and it almost led to a penalty late in the game. Obviously I see your point that we can't not play him, I am not rooting for that. I am rooting for acknowledging the issues some behaviour (not just him, others too) creates and get rid of that in the future.

I definitely appreciate his determination and workrate. I really do. But those are just some aspects of a footballer. And in other aspects he just falls short, as much as many of his team mates.

id direct you to my post to @Scandi Red above here as it covers most of it. we have different opinions on him, it seems. I feel if we had 3 or 4 more brunos we'd be a million miles better, and feel that he would have excelled in a klopp liverpool team for example. You cant on the one hand look at kroos casemiro and modric stroking the ball around for the best part of a decade and think wow, thats what we need, and also think fernandes should look far better when this endless avalanche of mediocre players are drafted through. to all ive mentioned add james, elanga, amrabat, sabitzer.....on balance of both sides of the argument, I think Fernandes could slot into any functioning team in the world and look far better.

 

[Pickle85]

I have never used something like that to celebrate or criticize a player for. It is an arbitrary thing to me. As I said, I try not to get distracted by being too selfabsorbed with question like "which of our players was the best today" - especially given that for quite some time it should be "which of our players was the least bad today". I try to compare ourselves with rivals. And I for one have no real clue what Bruno has done today that earned him anything more than for example Doucoure or Garner.

I mean he was literally given man of the match by the broadcaster. That's out of all players, not just ours.

 

[NZT-One]

So you're discounting Bruno's change of role in our improvement? Just a coincidence then? See this post is absolutely typical of this thread...anything good the side do (and Bruno catalyzes) isn't due to him being good but to something else

The commentator even talked about a habit of blown leads by Everton in this very season. Bruno scored a direct freekick, this is what changed the game, not that he moved further back. This just was possible because Everton dropped back a little.

 

[SER19]

But then you wonder if a functional team like Liverpool or Real Madrid would have him in their starting 11 for all the faults mentioned. I haven't watched enough of his Portugal performances, so perhaps some of our Portuguese posters can elaborate on that.

I absolutely think they would. I think Ferguson would at United, I think Klopp would have thought him a dream player. I say this knowing there are parts of his game that should be better, but there is not a single top world class player beside him to keep those parts in check in the heat of a game.

 

[Pickle85]

The commentator even talked about a habit of blown leads by Everton in this very season. Bruno scored a direct freekick, this is what changed the game, not that he moved further back. This just was possible because Everton dropped back a little.

The two can be true. The commentators also repeatedly said how Bruno moving deeper changed the game.

 

[NZT-One]

I mean he was literally given man of the match by the broadcaster. That's out of all players, not just ours.

Okay but what exactly does that mean? I honestly don't know what you mean. Its football commentators. They have their standpoints, I have mine. When they pick him for awards they have to give out, thats fine. He certainly wouldn't have gotten one from me had I had one to give away. Fyi - in games like these, I'd take my award back home of gift it for the good of an animal shelter instead of giving it away in a game where nobody really stood out positively

 

[Oranges038]

Freekick and one or two other moments aside, he was absolute dogshit for 70-75 mins today.

Even at the end that overturned penalty came from him booting one across his own box.

 

[NZT-One]

The two can be true. The commentators also repeatedly said how Bruno moving deeper changed the game.

I think it changed because Everton got nervous when they conceded the freekick. They moved a little deeper so Bruno had more time. It still wasn't a good game from then on - was it? Understat has our xG at 0.65, we had three shots on target and the two goals are included there.

 

[Cloudface]

I’ve seen games where Salah hasn’t been at his best, like the Everton match, but he still manages to pull something special out of nowhere to win the game. Today, that's what Bruno did.

The difference is, Salah has a much stronger team around him, so his flaws aren’t as noticeable. Liverpool tend to win more often, which helps cover up those moments when he’s not playing at his peak.

Unfortunately Salah is a different league altogether and comparing the two will not do Bruno any favours. Put Salah into one of those 10 positions and our team would jump multiple levels. Not just because of his goals, but his strength, tenacity, ball retention, short passing, pace and dribbling. Bruno doesn't have these traits so when he is pressed and harried he goes into panic mode and does stupid things.

 

[bosnian_red]

The relegation talk is stupid for the most part but we'd actually be relegated without him in the team. Feel bad for him to be stuck in this shit show.

 

[Fobal]

This is going to be a circular argument. I see your point and am not discounting limits in his game, but rushing, bad passes and chaos are all symptoms of a poorly functioning team. You watch the very very best and they're not even looking at eachother - they just know where teammates are, where their teammate wants it, everything just flows in a well drilled team. He has never had that luxury around him. When he goes chaosmode when trailing it's infuriating but honestly these days it's him or nobody. If he was at that when surrounded by Carrick, Scholes, Keane, or even Fletcher and all those brilliant hard working brave players, then fair enough - but hes been surrounded by quitters who simply do not want the pressure, for the most part

It's not just that, the thing with Bruno it's that he has those tendencies on any given team, on any given circumstances. He is what he is. And from time to time he has a more calm, clever game.

I think thougth that those tendencies can be mitigated with a system around that minimize such stuff, yet at the same time him being a leader, would required a player/or players of similar or above status to calm him down, to give him some order, to release him of the pressure of being the provider full time and to also call him when he acts like sometimes does a bit like a cnut with his mates. Bruno is a player that even with mates offering as an option of pass, he might try to invent a pass that only him sees or rush one because of feelling pressure. That won't go away with a better team around, yet could be mitigated to take advantage of his great strike, his verticality and eye for the goal.

All in all he was vital to the tie today, he still did great plays and the main issue with him would always be that in a Club that had a tendency in the past for agressive, compose, press resistant and clever mids it's not exactly the type of player Bruno is. I still think that saying that him does not have quality, not a player for a Top Team it's silly as feck, yet it certainly was a "mistake" to try to build a team arond him expecting a different game than what he offers and what United used to have regarding style as offensive mids.