[Kingofwinners]

A few thoughts:

I thought it was a red on the day, Bruno did raise his foot towards the opponent, I accept I was probably wrong given every expert review, but I still think it was petulant thing to do it and at best was a silly yellow to give.

I think Bruno has been terrible this season, the central role he has exacerbates the impact of a bad performance from him, it results in many losses of possession etc. It’s frustrating to watch the same patterns match after match and it’s a key reason we can’t kill games where we are winning or re establish a bit of control and possession when necessary. Also the constant moaning and pretending to be hurt drives me insane. If we’re trying to kill time and protect a lead I still don’t like it, but I get it, Bruno does it always, even when we are chasing games. These should be simple fixes imposed from management- I can’t understand how this hasn’t happened.

That said 1:0 down to Spurs with 11 men at home you always have a chance. I might be critical of Bruno but our chance of a result is far better before the red. If the decision was wrong and VAR didn’t change it then it’s just clearly not fit for purpose. It causes serious disruption to the flow of a game and particularly the natural and instant emotion after a goal. If it can’t get big decisions in line with FA guidance it’s worse than a waste of time.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Some seriously twisted views in here, this thread is another reason why this place is toxic.
Absolutely pathetic.

Not sure how hard is it to understand that fans want an underperforming player to sit out for 3 games because of his manager just refusing to bench him whatsoever? It will give him rest and time to reflect upon his diabolical performances. If the manager ever rotated him, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Nobody hates Bruno, people just want to see how we perform without him.

 

[moodyred]

Is this the first time we successfully appeal against a red card? Funny it happens when so many fans here wants it red.

 

[statpadder]

Not sure how hard is it to understand that fans want an underperforming player to sit out for 3 games because of his manager just refusing to bench him whatsoever? It will give him rest and time to reflect upon his diabolical performances. If the manager ever rotated him, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Nobody hates Bruno, people just want to see how we perform without him.

This. I was Ole out because of his reluctance to reward good performances and have no accountability for his favorites. Ten Hag has taken it to a new level.

No one hates Bruno - but even the biggest Bruno fanboy can see he is a detriment to the team at the moment and needs time out. Well everyone except our manager.

 

[Champ]

Not sure how hard is it to understand that fans want an underperforming player to sit out for 3 games because of his manager just refusing to bench him whatsoever? It will give him rest and time to reflect upon his diabolical performances. If the manager ever rotated him, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Nobody hates Bruno, people just want to see how we perform without him.

Rotate him with who?
Mount is in permanently injured, Amad is unreliable in his performances, Zirkzee has started his United career looking like Weghorst.

It sounds an awful lot like hate right now in this thread, and it's pathetic to see. So called 'supporters' actively wishing a ban upon the club captain. Amazing support that.

 

[ArmaDino]

Rotate him with who?
Mount is in permanently injured, Amad is unreliable in his performances, Zirkzee has started his United career looking like Weghorst.

It sounds an awful lot like hate right now in this thread, and it's pathetic to see. So called 'supporters' actively wishing a ban upon the club captain. Amazing support that.

As bad as the other options were this season, Bruno was worse than all of them. Because he, unlike them gives the ball cheaply which puts an extra strain on the team in order to win it back.

 

[M16Red]

Some seriously twisted views in here, this thread is another reason why this place is toxic.
Absolutely pathetic.

It's not toxic, its an opinion from me.

Stop trying to create a narrative, is Bruno a good player = yes, is he a creative player = yes.

 

[ForeverRed1]

I was sort of looking forward to seeing what we’d do without Bruno, how we’d set up.

 

[NZT-One]

I wasn't speaking specifically about playing without Bruno. We have seen many times over the last 10 years when fans blame a specific player or two how "we will be much better without x player" but it never works out that way.

I see, that makes perfect sense.

It's a shame that the ban is not upheld, but it actually gives whoever is in charge an opportunity to drop him.

I am in awe of that level of optimism.

Rotate him with who?
Mount is in permanently injured, Amad is unreliable in his performances, Zirkzee has started his United career looking like Weghorst.

It sounds an awful lot like hate right now in this thread, and it's pathetic to see. So called 'supporters' actively wishing a ban upon the club captain. Amazing support that.

Have you ever considered that the problem here is more on the receiving end than on the senders? I mean, there were quite a few posts during the last days that made sure, that it isn't hate, that is fueling this debate. Its a cheap exit - same as me telling you that all your views are worthless because you weirdly love him. These either ill-intended but at least foolishly simplified takes are more toxic than somebody ranting about a player that has a bad start to the season. If criticism is too hard to handle, maybe you should avoid the thread.

 

[Champ]

I see, that makes perfect sense.


I am in awe of that level of optimism.


Have you ever considered that the problem here is more on the receiving end than on the senders? I mean, there were quite a few posts during the last days that made sure, that it isn't hate, that is fueling this debate. Its a cheap exit - same as me telling you that all your views are worthless because you weirdly love him. These either ill-intended but at least foolishly simplified takes are more toxic than somebody ranting about a player that has a bad start to the season. If criticism is too hard to handle, maybe you should avoid the thread.

It's beyond criticism when people are actively wishing the captain to get banned.
The simple fact is that team will play equally poor with or without Bruno when they are set up like they are currently.
There is no debate for some people, they'd rather utilise another option which quite frankly United don't have right now.
This forum swings from player to player in terms of scapegoats, it was Maguire for a time, now they've realised that he wasn't the issue, then it was McTominay, again it's clear he wasn't the issue either, then Casemiro, Rashford and now Bruno.
The issue isn't individual players, but that won't stop the vitriolic pathetic toxicity towards them.

 

[NZT-One]

It's beyond criticism when people are actively wishing the captain to get banned.

Who are you to judge that? What makes you the one to decide what level of criticism is ok and which level isn't?

The simple fact is that team will play equally poor with or without Bruno when they are set up like they are currently.

Thats not a fact, thats an assumption. An assumption I would even follow, but the match against Barnsley the other night is a small indicator, that that assumption might not hold as much weight as it probably did in the past.

There is no debate for some people, they'd rather utilise another option which quite frankly United don't have right now.

There will never be one when we act as if players are untouchable - especially when not even their performances warrant taking them out for one match or the other. Talk was about a 2 or 3 match ban, your reaction is half a level away from posters wishing him a torn ACL.

This forum swings from player to player in terms of scapegoats, it was Maguire for a time, now they've realised that he wasn't the issue, then it was McTominay, again it's clear he wasn't the issue either, then Casemiro, Rashford and now Bruno.

Mate, there were more than enough posters that said, that those players weren't THE problem. But part of a whole set of problems. And all the names you listed haven't been rectified at all.

The issue isn't individual players, but that won't stop the vitriolic pathetic toxicity towards them.

Again, if it is too hard to handle, maybe stay away from certain threads. And just in case you haven't noticed yourself - accusations of hate and being toxic aren't making the atmosphere more comfortable but often polarize even more. If you don't see a reason to discuss individual criticism, I think, there are more than enough threads to participate. Give it a whack in the ETH thread for example - but after bad performances, be prepared for criticism towards players who are behind their expectations. Don't think there was ever a time, where that wouldn't have been the case and I can't see a future without it. I'd go as far as calling this an eternal truth.

 

[Jock Steins Boots]

I was sort of looking forward to seeing what we’d do without Bruno, how we’d set up.

Me too. Thought it might give the team a chance to see what a different setup might do with Mount in for a few games.

Still, on the bright side, with Bruno back for Porto and Villa he's likely to feck up, resulting in the quicker departure of ETH.

Every cloud.

 

[Champ]

Who are you to judge that? What makes you the one to decide what level of criticism is ok and which level isn't?

Thats not a fact, thats an assumption. An assumption I would even follow, but the match against Barnsley the other night is a small indicator, that that assumption might not hold as much weight as it probably did in the past.

There will never be one when we act as if players are untouchable - especially when not even their performances warrant taking them out for one match or the other. Talk was about a 2 or 3 match ban, your reaction is half a level away from posters wishing him a torn ACL.

Mate, there were more than enough posters that said, that those players weren't THE problem. But part of a whole set of problems. And all the names you listed haven't been rectified at all.

Again, if it is too hard to handle, maybe stay away from certain threads. And just in case you haven't noticed yourself - accusations of hate and being toxic aren't making the atmosphere more comfortable but often polarize even more. If you don't see a reason to discuss individual criticism, I think, there are more than enough threads to participate. Give it a whack in the ETH thread for example - but after bad performances, be prepared for criticism towards players who are behind their expectations. Don't think there was ever a time, where that wouldn't have been the case and I can't see a future without it. I'd go as far as calling this an eternal truth.

Who's acting as if Bruno is untouchable? The managers inevitably going to want to play his most creative player and captain.
The game against Barnsley was a good show, but then so was the first half Vs Palace, where we should have been a few goals to the good, likewise Southampton, likewise parts of the game vs Fulham.

Criticism is fine, damn right vitriol and bile isn't, and that's what we have in here.
It still amuses me that people on this forum seem to have extensive knowledge of what goes on at the training ground, detailed metrics compiled by the analysis department and a higher level of understanding then those that deal with these players on a daily basis.
Yes, managers can get decisions wrong, but EtH isn't going to self sabotage his reputation just to nail his flag to a Bruno shaped mast, there's a reason he starts every game, most on here need to stop letting the hatred cloud their judgements and realise why that is.

 

[Grand Vizier]

This would have been a perfect opportunity for Bruno to get some much needed rest, and for us to try a different approach for three games. We will not get that opportunity again. At this point we should be experimenting because putting up the same lineup over and over with players who are playing very poorly is insanity, and just begging for poor results and performances.

I don't understand why he himself isn't asking to be rested. He is the captain, is playing poor and knows it himself. He should be doing decisions that could possibly benefit the team and that is telling the manager he needs to sit out some games, because he really do need rest.

 

[kouroux]

Oh ffs, can't even turn a defeat into a win

 

[christinaa]

So the final score was tarnished by a bad referee decision.
I hope the referee Is disciplined strongly because this is just not fair on us.

 

[kouroux]

This would have been a perfect opportunity for Bruno to get some much needed rest, and for us to try a different approach for three games. We will not get that opportunity again. At this point we should be experimenting because putting up the same lineup over and over with players who are playing very poorly is insanity, and just begging for poor results and performances.

I don't understand why he himself isn't asking to be rested. He is the captain, is playing poor and knows it himself. He should be doing decisions that could possibly benefit the team and that is telling the manager he needs to sit out some games, because he really do need rest.

I'm not surprised, hate or love him, his willingness to always play, no matter his fatigue levels, is actually something really respectable.
However the line is very thin between being helpful to your team and a true problem. ETH probably gasses him up too so it doesn't help

 

[Jock Steins Boots]

Who's acting as if Bruno is untouchable? The managers inevitably going to want to play his most creative player and captain.
The game against Barnsley was a good show, but then so was the first half Vs Palace, where we should have been a few goals to the good, likewise Southampton, likewise parts of the game vs Fulham.

Criticism is fine, damn right vitriol and bile isn't, and that's what we have in here.
It still amuses me that people on this forum seem to have extensive knowledge of what goes on at the training ground, detailed metrics compiled by the analysis department and a higher level of understanding then those that deal with these players on a daily basis.
Yes, managers can get decisions wrong, but EtH isn't going to self sabotage his reputation just to nail his flag to a Bruno shaped mast, there's a reason he starts every game, most on here need to stop letting the hatred cloud their judgements and realise why that is.

You don't need to be an expert, or have extensive knowledge of the training ground, to see with your own eyes the way Bruno has played for a while. It's quite obvious to anyone with half a football brain, that he's just not up to it right now and hasn't for a while.

Terrible passing, Hollywood shots into the car park, moaning at other players when he's at fault and reckless tackles, don't exactly speak of a world class player, that United can't be without.

A lot of what people 'hate' isn't Bruno himself, it's the ongoing reluctance of the management to drop him, or sub him, when he's not bringing his A game, which lately has been quite a bit. That's what people get frustrated about.

No player should be deemed undroppable, simply because he's Captain, or called Bruno. If he was playing at regular Messi levels, then fine, start him every game, but Messi he ain't.

The scorelines speak for themselves along with the negative goal difference. Eventually, even the most die hard Boxing fan realises, that the guy with the red lines across his back, probably isn't very good.

 

[Tincanalley]

You wouldn't know it to read this thread. 'Fans' were delighted he was sent off, opportunity for Mount to become Zidane, reckless and stupid etc. Reality is the guy slipped, scraped somebody's leg and was wrongly sent off for it.

The whole team has been shit for the past 18 months and relative to the rest of the squad, Bruno has ALWAYS been one of our top performers. Even this season, who can you objectively say has been playing better than him?

And also, this myth of the team being built around Bruno needs to die. Maybe in Ole's United and the first 6 months of the ETH era, but since then he's been moved around constantly to make up for deficiencies in the squad, the primary onus for chance creation has been put onto wingers (who have done feck all, though to be fairthe tactics completely isolate them and set them up to fail)... add to that we haven't had a 'decent' striker who'd be able to make use of a world class AM since fecking Lukaku.

Glad the vast majority of match-going fans think differently

Decent post - thank you

 

[Marcus]

I was sort of looking forward to seeing what we’d do without Bruno, how we’d set up.

Yeah me too. A bit disappointed the appeal was successful.

 

[Tincanalley]

Trust me bro because possibly long ball during good spell. Redcafe in the mud.

We conceded 2 more goals in the second half without answer and that's the primary metric for performance. The entire team was shit in the first half and must have had a rocket up their ass to improve as 10 in the second. What's to say Bruno wouldn't have improved too?

So much dumb causation correlation fallacy across this forum.

Thanks poster. I hear ya. You are a voice in the wilderness though

 

[Tincanalley]

Some seriously twisted views in here, this thread is another reason why this place is toxic.
Absolutely pathetic.

Toxic. 100% rank. I hope they are mostly non football aligned teens

 

[Grand Vizier]

There is no way you're defending Bruno's performances this year and claiming he has been one of our best player, @VivaObertan.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Rotate him with who?
Mount is in permanently injured, Amad is unreliable in his performances, Zirkzee has started his United career looking like Weghorst.

It sounds an awful lot like hate right now in this thread, and it's pathetic to see. So called 'supporters' actively wishing a ban upon the club captain. Amazing support that.

Yes, Mount and Zirkzee. Are you going to wait a year before giving a new signing a chance in a role that best fits his profile? And Mount is available? Why not give him a chance?

Blame the manager for people wishing Bruno to be banned because he never ever drops him. As I said in my previous post, nobody hates or wishes ban upon Bruno naturally. They are doing because they want to see an underperforming player dropped for a bit and see others given chances.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Oh ffs, can't even turn a defeat into a win

We appealed the only good portion of that game. And "won" snatching defeat out of the laws of victory. Yay

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Toxic. 100% rank. I hope they are mostly non football aligned teens

The only twisted views is one of your own i.e unhinged support for one of our worst performers for a while. You accuse others of being non-football aligned teens but you probably dont even watch games yourself otherwise you would have seen how detrimental his performances have been for us lately.

Typical top red argument of calling criticism as toxic and vitriolic.

 

[Champ]

You don't need to be an expert, or have extensive knowledge of the training ground, to see with your own eyes the way Bruno has played for a while. It's quite obvious to anyone with half a football brain, that he's just not up to it right now and hasn't for a while.

Terrible passing, Hollywood shots into the car park, moaning at other players when he's at fault and reckless tackles, don't exactly speak of a world class player, that United can't be without.

A lot of what people 'hate' isn't Bruno himself, it's the ongoing reluctance of the management to drop him, or sub him, when he's not bringing his A game, which lately has been quite a bit. That's what people get frustrated about.

No player should be deemed undroppable, simply because he's Captain, or called Bruno. If he was playing at regular Messi levels, then fine, start him every game, but Messi he ain't.

The scorelines speak for themselves along with the negative goal difference. Eventually, even the most die hard Boxing fan realises, that the guy with the red lines across his back, probably isn't very good.

Again, do you really think the management team, including EtH, are self sabotaging themselves by refusing to drop Bruno?
I'm pretty sure, despite the many issues with the tactical set up currently, the coaching staff have more footballing knowledge than most.

Whether you like it or not he is still the most creative player we have and has been this season also.

 

[Grand Vizier]

Again, do you really think the management team, including EtH, are self sabotaging themselves by refusing to drop Bruno?
I'm pretty sure, despite the many issues with the tactical set up currently, the coaching staff have more footballing knowledge than most.

Whether you like it or not he is still the most creative player we have and has been this season also.

Self sabotaging? At this point, it looks like Bruno is self sabotaging.
I don't know why you're putting that out like he is some undroppable player at Messi's level. He is quite clearly easily replaceable on current form, so how would that be self sabotaging? Resting a player that needs it and has played almost every minute of every game for 4 years seems like something maybe a wise manager would have done - a long time ago.

Your second paragraph just couldn't be more factually incorrect. He has been one of our least creative players, and all of Rashford, Amad, Zirkzee, Garnacho and Eriksen have been more creative and created more chances than him. Dalot is equal, and even Mason Mount isn't far behind. I wonder what you've been watching for you to call him our most creative player this season.

 

[Musclehead]

There was a moment after we were 0-1 down. We had the ball like for 5 seconds near their box. Spurs backed off with defensive formation in and around the box. United players were in their position. And then someone passed the ball to Bruno who was at far left. Moment he received the ball I started screaming NOOOOO Bruno NO keep the ball, have patience please god please. And he did exactly what I was afraid of. He under absolutely no pressure, took the position and loft the cross in the box. Hail Mary, hope someone connects. As usual it was the opposition player. Possession lost, we were under attack. FFS, this player has become unbelievable.

Yup, I totally agree and had the exact same reaction. I was hoping he would do something productive, put some energy into the play and then he does it, the lazy assed cross to no one. How many times have you seen Bruno beat a man 1v1, then use his speed to create some open space and draw in attackers? I will give you a hint, it is less than 1.

 

[Zico1982]

Rotate him with who? Let´s take a look at the options:

Mount? Better at pressing, but less creative. Not at his best right now, and often injured. As a sub yes. Better than Bruno right now? I don´t think so.

Mainoo? The kid has his own problems at the moment in a dysfunctional midfield set up. He is super talented, but also not at his best form. Besides that, is he really a 10/attacking 8? No one really knows. Better than Bruno? To put your faith in him putting things right in an untried position. That would be a big risk.

Zirkzee? A false 9 with great link up play and a good first touch. He is reading the game as well. He does not really work out this far as a Højlund replacement. Could he replace Bruno at 10 for the time being? Probably better than Mount and Mainoo right now. I would not mind trying it out, but please not against Porto. Zirkzee/Rasmus as a double-strike. That, I would love to see, but 4-4-2 will not happen under EtH.

Eriksen? In great form, scoring goals, dictating games, setting up chances. AM is his preferred position, allowing him not to run himself to pieces within 60 minutes. Put Ugarte and Casemiro/Mainoo behind him and Amad-Rasmus-Zirkzee (Yes. He can actually play left or right and cross) in front of him. Is Eriksen better than Bruno at the moment? Yes. Problem solved.

 

[Musclehead]

Again, do you really think the management team, including EtH, are self sabotaging themselves by refusing to drop Bruno?
I'm pretty sure, despite the many issues with the tactical set up currently, the coaching staff have more footballing knowledge than most.

Whether you like it or not he is still the most creative player we have and has been this season also.

I have coached a lot of teams in different sports. While I have had a few failures, I have had a lot of successes. The one commonality with every successful team I have had, excellent leadership amongst the players. Captains who will do whatever it takes to win and set the expectation throughout the team. Those players were purposely chosen to come in a lead. If I got it wrong and I had the wrong guy to drive the team to the next level, you changed it up. Sure perhaps not at a professional level, although some of those players did end up with careers in sport, it was the basis for driving success. In addition, my expectation level was clearly communicated with the players. That expectation was to win every game and any time we didn't win it was failure. This expectation became contagious and most bought in and those that didn't were gone.
I have found that teams mirror coaches. They become an extension of how you played the game. As I see it Bruno mirrors ETH and hence why problems exist. Perhaps with different manager he would play different? He needs to get out of his lazy ass play and start pushing himself and the players around him. He is too comfortable, too relaxed and it shows game in and game out.

 

[Scandi Red]

He needs to get out of his lazy ass play and start pushing himself and the players around him. He is too comfortable, too relaxed and it shows game in and game out.

Lack of precision does not equal lack of effort or laziness. Bruno sets an excellent example with his fitness and workrate. He's also more vocal than he's given credit for, although it's often construed as him being whiny (god, I love body language experts on the internet. Peak humanity right there).

 

[Baneofthegame]

I’d rest him tonight ready for the weekend anyway, get his head back in the game for the weekend.

 

[Borys]

I’d rest him tonight ready for the weekend anyway, get his head back in the game for the weekend.

I think this is likely to happen. Regardless of the Porto game, Ten Hag lives or dies based on league results and I bet he'll prefer Bruno there.

 

[Zico1982]

Ten Hag will play Bruno in both games.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I think this is likely to happen. Regardless of the Porto game, Ten Hag lives or dies based on league results and I bet he'll prefer Bruno there.

He will start both games.

 

[SATA]

I’d rest him tonight ready for the weekend anyway, get his head back in the game for the weekend.

Isn’t he suspended for the weekend after getting a red?

 

[Remember the geese]

Isn’t he suspended for the weekend after getting a red?

We successfully appealed it.

 

[Doracle]

Isn’t he suspended for the weekend after getting a red?

Overturned on appeal - he’s not suspended.

 

[Baneofthegame]

I think this is likely to happen. Regardless of the Porto game, Ten Hag lives or dies based on league results and I bet he'll prefer Bruno there.

I actually think that’s one of his more annoying qualities is that he doesn’t rest people for nothing games at times.