I had that thought, but no.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 30
- Goals
- 5
- Assists
- 15
- Yellow cards
- 3
-
In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, we interview Duncan Drasdo of MUST - covering ticket prices, new stadium, INEOS and what fans should be demanding from our club.
Also, due to technical issues we couldn't put a notice up for the previous episode which was about the game against Bournemouth and other stuff. If you'd like to listen to it, click here.
In 22-23
1st Haaland
2nd Firmino
3rd Callum Wilson
11th Awoniyi
13th Rashford
19th Darwin Nunez
31st Jadon Sancho
40th Bruno
Look basically there are 4 players on each team who are primarily tasked with scoring or creating goals. Bruno has been one of these for United since he came. That adds up to roughly 80-100 (adding more because the big teams have more attacking options) players that he's competing with in terms of attacking output (Goals and assists). This year he's 2nd and everybody can see it and he's getting all the praise.
But some have tried to make out that he's always been this good. I've found some very black and white stats that backup what I and lots of United fans have seen with our own eyes. He was amazing, then he was quite middling for years, now he's amazing again.
This angers some people but the stats stack up with the eye and memory test.
1st Haaland
2nd Firmino
3rd Callum Wilson
11th Awoniyi
13th Rashford
19th Darwin Nunez
31st Jadon Sancho
40th Bruno
Look basically there are 4 players on each team who are primarily tasked with scoring or creating goals. Bruno has been one of these for United since he came. That adds up to roughly 80-100 (adding more because the big teams have more attacking options) players that he's competing with in terms of attacking output (Goals and assists). This year he's 2nd and everybody can see it and he's getting all the praise.
But some have tried to make out that he's always been this good. I've found some very black and white stats that backup what I and lots of United fans have seen with our own eyes. He was amazing, then he was quite middling for years, now he's amazing again.
This angers some people but the stats stack up with the eye and memory test.
Except they don't, though, and just because you say it, doesn't make it true. I don't think anyone's angry, more bored. You cherry pick stats, throw context out the window and then disregard other stats like big chance creation with no explanation. That's all while rage baiting using smiley emojis. It's a disingenuous way of involving yourself in a discussion and it screams of attention seeking.
Sidenote: there's a reason that Bruno's fellow professionals and oppo managers rave about him and have done for years, and not because he's been 'quite middling for years'.
In 22-23
1st Haaland
2nd Firmino
3rd Callum Wilson
11th Awoniyi
13th Rashford
19th Darwin Nunez
31st Jadon Sancho
40th Bruno
Cherrypicked! Assists and goals per 90 minutes. It's as basic as you could get. He was 40th. Very very middling
I don't trust a chance creation stat. It's based on subjectivity. Goals and assists are hard facts.
And yet you strip all context out of your g+a/90 stat. Funny that, isn't it?
I didn't strip it of context. It's a stat. Context can be added but not stripped. Its the 2 things attacking players are on the pitch to do per minute on the pitch. It's a very good stat and you'll find the best attacker each year will be at the top of the list. Palmer, Salah, Haaland.
And the players regarded as having top seasons will be up there too. Last year Saka was 3rd, this year he's 39th. Arsenal fans won't do all sorts of cartwheels to explain that away, they'll say he's had a poor season by his standards. They definitely won't say he's consistent. That would be mental.
Remember the season Lingard was amazing for West Ham. I wouldn't know what season it was off the top of my head but checking the G+A/90 shows it was the 20-21 season when he hit 0.82.
De Bruyne was not outside the top 6 in the 5 seasons from 2019 until 2024. Now that truly is consistent. No explanations needed or context required. He was balling for 5 years straight.
Bruno balled, dipped for 4 years and has amazingly and unbelievably turned it up again.
2 assists today agains USA
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But you added context to it that suited the point you were trying to make (making it per ninety as opposed to just plain number of goals and assists throughout the season). And your phrasing of 'Its the 2 things attacking players are on the pitch to do per minute on the pitch' is misleading - you should say 'its two of the many things that attacking players are on the pitch to do', as, again, context matters and there are far more ways to contribute than just goals and assists per 90 (though Bruno impresses there consistently, regardless).
You use KDB as an example of a player constantly producing 'no context needed', but here context is, again, important. He was playing for by far the best side in the premiership for by far the best manager for most of that time, in a system optimized for him. Yes, he is a phenomenal player and very productive but if you're comparing him to Bruno, a player playing in an unsettled side under a succession of average coaches alongside a cast of mostly fairly mediocre characters then yes, context matters.
Look at the big chances created stat and you'll see how Bruno 'balls' (shudder) consistently. But you refuse to take THAT statistic into account because it doesn't back up the point you want to make.
Your entire argument hinges upon 'look at this mediocre player, he unexpectedly outstripped Bruno in goals and assists per 90 in this one off season', which is a meaningless way of looking at it. But as you're on the wum you know this and don't need telling.
I can't believe I'm having to explain the value of the per 90 stat but I guess I have to. If a player, lets call him Bruno plays 50 games and contributes 15 goals and another player Kevin plays 25 games and contributes 10 goals well then Kevin has performed better. The per 90 stat whittles down player's effectiveness for when they're on the pitch. It's really very useful but I suspect you know that and are trying to dismiss it because it doesn't suit your point.
Scoring goals and assisting goals are the 2 main things attacking players do. They might be dribbling game breakers, not Bruno, or hardworking but primarily they are assessed on their output. As I've said the players who everybody agrees as having had a good season are at the top of this chart, which leads me to my next point. You ignored my Saka argument because it highlights exactly how valuable my stat is. Last year he was 3rd and everyone thought he was great and this year he's struggled and is way down the list. Please address this point.
I highlighted De Bruyne because I was told there was no player who could be so consistent and now I'm told that's because he was in a great team, so I highlighted players that weren't in great teams who outperformed Bruno over the course of a season.
I have led you to the water but you will not drink. I'm not wasting any more time.
His argument is weak if you look at G+A stats since he joined in Jan 2020,
| Since 2019-2020 (Bruno Joined in Jan 2020) | ||
| Rank | Player | G+A |
| 1 | Mohamed Salah | 209 |
| 2 | Bruno Fernandes | 137 |
| 2 | Son Heung‑min | 137 |
| 4 | Erling Haaland | 130 |
| 5 | Kevin De Bruyne | 122 |
Bruno's numbers are this good despite the fact that he played in a shit side like United
Yet again, you're ignoring context. What if the player in question is usually bought on as a super sub at the end of games to terrorise tired defences? What if he's only wheeled out against cannon fodder? There are all sorts of reasons that those stats may be skewed, even leaving aside the question of the calibre of team each player plays in (one which, again, you've dismissed as irrelevant). You then say you've given examples of players that weren't in great teams who outperformed BRuno over the course of a season but, unless I'm missing something, you've not given examples of these players that have his level of consistency. You've blabbered on about Cornet and Awoniyi.
Re Saka, the point is a very, very basic one and I'm surprised you've missed it. Saka has struggled this season because Arsenal have changed the way they've played - it's nothing to do with G+A per 90. He looks far less of a threat in most facets of his game.
Your arguments on this are disingenuous and fatuous - you're wumming and it's getting a little desperate.
But but but...per 90 Awoniyi and Cornet were better in one season so there...!
They are a winger and a striker, not midfielders. He‘s comparing apples with kiwi‘s.
Using P90 for productive stats (goals, assists, big chances in particular) is kind of pointless anyways.
A benchwarmer with 6 G+A in 1000 minutes will have a better P90 than someone who plays a full season and gets 20 G+A.
A benchwarmer with 6 G+A in 1000 minutes will have a better P90 than someone who plays a full season and gets 20 G+A.
Just fyi - not like your posts are much less boring than the ones of the other user. Just let it go, or continue the exchange and save the stuff like the last sentence. You have a different understanding of what consistency means than the other user. His definition is... exclusive. You'll live.
Exactly. But these things get breezed past as if they weren't there! All of this also conveniently ignores the fact that one of Bruno's massive pluses is his durability and availability. Maybe we should do a 'how many minutes do players play per 90' comparison and see where he ends up!
Sure if you give him more time he'll get better numbers but is it fair to give him that advantage? Hence the per 90 stat
Sure if you include players that come on in the last ten to run at defences they'll get better per 90 numbers but is it fair to give them that advantage?
earlier you said G+A are hard facts, so here's fact for you, in the PL and since he joined, Bruno has the 2nd most G+A, what does that tell you?
Watched the highlights yesterday - absolute cheat code of a player
Feels like the world cup is coming at the perfect time for him to show the world how great he is. Does Ronaldo still insist on playing every game?
According to my Portuguese mate - yes, Ronaldo will start every game for Portugal at the World Cup and it will be a hindrance. It's a shame really. Without him, I'd back Portugal as one of the favourites.
On the World Cup I'm supporting Portugal or Brasil because this could the last attempt for Bruno or Casemiro to win one, but if Portugal start Ronaldo every game I'm expecting them to go out quick. I would love if they keep Ronaldo on the bench and make Bruno captain and he end up been the best player on the tournament. It would give Bruno a chance of a Ballon d'or if he also beat Henry's record on the premier league and get player of the season.
He’s been absolutely world class this season. Even for Portugal. His assist record is insane. Special player
Pfft, he'd be top if he wasn't so inconsistent. Right ? Right ?
ffs I resisted the temptation to egg him on.
The Problem has actually been The Savior. In the sense, that is, is saving us from an even further fall in the PL hierarchy.
I look back at the amount of people wanting him out of the club and saying he was holding the team back and chuckle.
Absolutely world class, best player we’ve had at the club since RVP. His assist numbers would have been out of this world if we had a quality team and decent strikers around him during his entire time at the club.
Absolutely world class, best player we’ve had at the club since RVP. His assist numbers would have been out of this world if we had a quality team and decent strikers around him during his entire time at the club.
He'll overtake Salah, Kane and Aguero's record next season.
A Liverpool supporting mate of mine would use Gerrard's number of Player of the Month awards as evidence that he was a better player than Scholes. That's going to make for a tough conversation when Bruno retires with the record.
A Liverpool supporting mate of mine would use Gerrard's number of Player of the Month awards as evidence that he was a better player than Scholes. That's going to make for a tough conversation when Bruno retires with the record.
Great stuff
He won 4 in 2020 and 2 in the last year. Great to see him hitting top form again.
Nice sentiment.
Doesn't really stack up though.
In 22-23 Eriksen had as many assists (8) as Bruno despite playing 1300 fewer minutes and playing further behind him in the same team.
We can try to revise Bruno's Man United career as having been consistently brilliant, hampered by his incompetent teammates but it just doesn't stack up. Why was Eriksen better with the same group and from further back?
Face it, sometimes Bruno wasn't performing very well and his stats suffered because of him and nobody else.
G+A/90
19-20 1.14
20-21 0.87
21-22 0.46
22-23 0.43
23-24 0.52
24-25 0.54
25-26 0.89
You can throw the guinness book of stats at me all you want but at no point in their United careers was Eriksen better than Bruno. There’s more to the game than just stats alone, Bruno has been top year after year for us.
Did Messi win POTM every month in barca?