His feelings are still hurt after the referee touched him when he missed the penalty, our captain ladies and gentleman. He should have been stripped of the captaincy a long time ago.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 12
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 2
Then it should make you think, why don't they go for a player like Bruno? Why don't they sacrifice things for more chances? Because having higher chance numbers don't mean that much, and other things are more important.Yes, there are limitations in his game, which are massively amplified by him being played out of possition in the games you criticized him for previously - the EL final, for example.
But is there anyone we can think of this kind of productivity at MUFC ?
He is head and shoulders above his peers in terms of chances created. Bar Son, the others play at teams that have been consistently successful, so maybe, just maybe, the limitations you speak of wouldn't be so evident if he had elite players around him like those at City, Arsenal and Liverpool do.
Is your question why City, Arsenal and Liverpool dont try and buy Bruno?
Wow. I think you are really onto something there!!!
Maybe in the same context, you should wonder why United have not tried to buy Salah, KDB, Saka etc etc.
Then hopefully you will then come the obvious conclusion that top players don't transfer between the top clubs in the Prem.
How many through balls did Hojlund receive in his 73 mins of football at Napoli?
So if Bruno is creating nothing, how is he number 4 in most assists in the league last year, and number 1 in chances created with 91 ?
Yes, there are limitations in his game, which are massively amplified by him being played out of possition in the games you criticized him for previously - the EL final, for example.
But is there anyone we can think of this kind of productivity at MUFC ?
He is head and shoulders above his peers in terms of chances created. Bar Son, the others play at teams that have been consistently successful, so maybe, just maybe, the limitations you speak of wouldn't be so evident if he had elite players around him like those at City, Arsenal and Liverpool do.
For chances created - this seems to be a pass leading to a shot on goal. He created 9 chances in a single game against Sheffield United - most of these chances came from corners or passes to Garnacho who then dribbled and shot. Unfortunately I can't share footage of this game as I can't post media yet.
If he is an elite player, why has he not come close to challenging for a major trophy in his career so far, not just at United? Why not leave, or why haven't the elite teams come in for him?
No, I asked why don't they go for players like Bruno, why don't they sacrifice the things we do for "more creativity".
Not in Amorim's system though. He is not made for what the 10s need there. Cunha and Mbeumo are pretty perfect for these positions. Bruno doesn't have one under this system. It is that simple really
Do mean the 4-2 game where he scored two, assisted one and got a perfect 10 on SofaScore?
https://www.sofascore.com/football/match/manchester-united-sheffield-united/psK
What a strange game to choose to help you NOT prove your point.
You will have to tell me at which of his prior clubs he should have "come close to challenging for a major trophy" with?
Perennial Serie A challenges Udinese and Sampdoria ?
Or Sporting in an era when they were way off Porto and Benfica?
Like which player? Who is like Bruno that no one wants to buy?
Well obviously they don't make it far because making the trade-off doesn't work, standards are too high. It's a very similar case to mainoo, good teams don't sacrifice the core skills for icing on the cake.
I think a very high percentage of his chances created are actually better described as possessions wasted. Many good midfielders would beat his chance creation stats if they just sprayed the ball all over the place every time their team had the ball.
You cant name one.
So Bruno is the only player that his "made it far" in world football that has no core skills? He is just an icing on the top player that offers nothing?
Why is he so productive? Why is he 4 x United player of the season? Why is he the assist leader in the team? Why does he have most chances created in the league?
For an "icing on top" player, why does he have 16th most tackles won in the league last year?
https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+tackles+won+premier+league+2024-25
So strange how he got nominated by his peers this year for the PFA players player of the year awards. They must rate him, but guy on the internet doesnt!
"Why hasn't a top European club signed Bruno?" is such a weird argument to hold against him as a United fan. I can't imagine many Newcastle fans were banging on about how no one wanted to take Alan Shearer off their hands.
The point is about what the stat is actually measuring, and how useful that measure is, with footage to demonstrate. Again - I can't share the link.
Sporting won the league the season after he left. Again, the point is if he is at such an elite level why has he been squandering his time at those clubs or at United where it was quite obvious after a few seasons we weren't going to compete for anything big? Where were Barca, Bayern, Real - why is Saudi the only team plausibly linked with him?
It's hard to think of many elite players who are defined by their stats alone rather than accompanying elite performances in the big games, or the biggest individual award, or a major trophy. Now that summary is as superficial as quoting stats in isolation, but he has put in too many horrible performances in big games as well.
Didn't Shearer suffer quite a serious injury at the start of his second season there? So he was probably declining from then on and no longer in his prime.
Also he'd already had serious interest from the best team in the country and other high profile European clubs before moving there. This isn't the case for Bruno - I may be misremembering but weren't Spurs our competition for his signature?
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I took that as a self-compliment from him
Going to Saudi seems like it would be a big risk 
You actually have a video of all 9 chances created by Bruno in that particular game?
Ok. So you saying Sporting wouldn't have won the league had Bruno stayed for that 20-21 season?
You do know he scored 33 goals in all comps the full season before he joined us? FROM MIDFIELD!
Do you share the same opinion about Bryan Robson and him spending his peak years at United when they were uncompetitive?
That is what happens when you play for Manchester United. We pay big money and would ask a huge sum to sell Bruno to a rival.
Not sure if you have noticed, but United don't tend to sell their best players to rivals. In the same way we dont hear rumours or links of the best of City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool moving to each other.
Where is this actually coming from? It just shows the inability to acknowledge that we aren't a team in a vacuum. Our opponents are aware that Bruno is our main weapon, a situation that is far from ideal, so they do crowd the center. And since our midfield options are so limited, no ball gets played through the centre so we are forced out wide. Does this make the WBs the most attacking players in our systems? I doubt it, we just need to learn how to not be as effected by pressure so it becomes less easy to push the ball out wide against us.
You are refering to a simple number that ignores what kind of chance i.e. whats the probability to score from it is. Every corner kick he hits and that results in a tame header from 20 yards out goes down as a chance. Every 5 yard pass that leads to a desperate shot. It would be better to look at xA or xAG stat as that at least incorporates the quality of the chance that follows. I am sure, Bruno would still be up there but it wouldn't be as hollow as simply counting chances. It is as if people insist of going back to simply counting shots - while "shots on target" and "xG" are available as stats now as well and provide a way better way of looking at things.
I will probably never get why such things are dragged in here on such a regular basis
I mean, again - he is the one player in our team that is at least noteworthy. And he is - but look at where the club got in those 6 years. Look at the team and how many players fell into oblivion when it comes to their reputation. Bruno earned those awards, no doubt, but lets not act as if those things mean as much as back in the past when being the best player at United meant something.Thats actually a pretty good way of describing it. A part of why Brunos numbers are so high is that he is allowed the freedom he is allowed for us. It isn't his fault that nobody else stepped up until now but his personal numbers did benefit from it significantly. And since he is undoubtedly courageous and somewhat relentless in his will to attempt stuff, he racks up large number of attempts without the team benefitting from it to the same extent. But one of the staples of this United team in the recent past is the inability to generate good chances. Not chances itself - good chances. And some of the players that are lower than Bruno in this list could probably raise higher if they wouldn't hold back and take more risk - as Bruno did for most of his time here.
This can be backed up by some stats as well:
Fbref has Bruno as the Nr. 1 player in the league for Shot creating actions, with 7.75 per 90. But when it comes to xA or xAG he falls down to 9th and 10th which is still really good for a player who mostly played rather further back in midfield. But it creates the needed context to make use of his stats. Just acting befuddled how he can rack up such "great" numbers in our team isn't of much use. And there are many teams out there, who are more reliable and/or productive in their attacks without having a player like Bruno in their team.
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We can't argue that he's been by far our most creative central player, but at the same time to get the best out of him he needed to play with two grifters behind him to make it work, so by default everything went through him. When he was in his prime, his goal G/A numbers did justify it.Where is this actually coming from? It just shows the inability to acknowledge that we aren't a team in a vacuum. Our opponents are aware that Bruno is our main weapon, a situation that is far from ideal, so they do crowd the center. And since our midfield options are so limited, no ball gets played through the centre so we are forced out wide. Does this make the WBs the most attacking players in our systems? I doubt it, we just need to learn how to not be as effected by pressure so it becomes less easy to push the ball out wide against us.
You are refering to a simple number that ignores what kind of chance i.e. whats the probability to score from it is. Every corner kick he hits and that results in a tame header from 20 yards out goes down as a chance. Every 5 yard pass that leads to a desperate shot. It would be better to look at xA or xAG stat as that at least incorporates the quality of the chance that follows. I am sure, Bruno would still be up there but it wouldn't be as hollow as simply counting chances. It is as if people insist of going back to simply counting shots - while "shots on target" and "xG" are available as stats now as well and provide a way better way of looking at things.
I will probably never get why such things are dragged in here on such a regular basis
Thats actually a pretty good way of describing it. A part of why Brunos numbers are so high is that he is allowed the freedom he is allowed for us. It isn't his fault that nobody else stepped up until now but his personal numbers did benefit from it significantly. And since he is undoubtedly courageous and somewhat relentless in his will to attempt stuff, he racks up large number of attempts without the team benefitting from it to the same extent. But one of the staples of this United team in the recent past is the inability to generate good chances. Not chances itself - good chances. And some of the players that are lower than Bruno in this list could probably raise higher if they wouldn't hold back and take more risk - as Bruno did for most of his time here.
This can be backed up by some stats as well:
Fbref has Bruno as the Nr. 1 player in the league for Shot creating actions, with 7.75 per 90. But when it comes to xA or xAG he falls down to 9th and 10th which is still really good for a player who mostly played rather further back in midfield. But it creates the needed context to make use of his stats. Just acting befuddled how he can rack up such "great" numbers in our team isn't of much use. And there are many teams out there, who are more reliable and/or productive in their attacks without having a player like Bruno in their team.
Had he been at a better ran club who would have invested in more well rounded midfielders to play behind him, maybe he would have won some big trophies, but now we have other players who can create in the final third and his G/A numbers no longer justify setting up the team in a way that allows him to drift wherever he wants, and as much as everyone wants to say whoa is him he's being played out of position, he was at his best when he was allowed to be positionless.
I will say in his defense that this season playing in a deeper role he has been effective in setting up potentially dangerous attacks which were squandered by not only missed chances on goal, but poor decision making and poor final passes which would have set up high percentage opportunities. Ultimately I think it's ok to say it's in the best interest of the club to sell him without laying all the blame at his feet and acknowledging all the good things he's done. Well ran clubs don't only get rid of bomb squad players.
A lot of words you typed to just come to the conclusion that "I am sure, Bruno would still be up there".
Which is correct....
https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/leagues/47/stats/season/23685/players/expected_assists/premier-league
I will probably never get why such things are dragged in here on such a regular basis
Because as you say, he is the one player that is "at least noteworthy". He is hands down our best signing post Fergie.
Yet people time and time again on the Caf are talking like is a scrub player, despite every metric showing otherwise. Including the awards won.
There are knuckle draggers in this thread implying that we should mark Bruno down because he never won anything while at Udinese and Sampdoria, or somehow criticising him for being signed by United the season before Sporting won a title. Make that make sense?
Or by making arguments to suggest he is no good because we have not received bids from him from European giants or rival clubs. Beyond Saudi, has anyone seriously been in for Salah since joining Liverpool? Or Saka at Arsenal? They must be shit then.
No one is saying winning United POTY is the same as what it may have been under SAF, but still, he is winning it. He is also recognized in multiple years by opposition players by being nominated for the league players player of the year awards.
So are you saying the Bruno is just creating a low quality of chance for his teammates, therefore his high chances created numbers far exceed his xA ?
He is just spamming balls to hike those chance created numbers?
Fotmob has him with most chances created in the league....
And 4th in expected assists....
So he is actually closely in line with the likes of Salah and Palmer in terms of chances created Vs xA.
With the numbers being in line, are we to say that Palmer has the "inability to generate good chances. Not chances itself - good chances." as you said?
I don't think it is that difficult to understand. He is an elite player surrounded by garbage. Centently last season.
To go back to the awards, how many times do you get a PL PPOTY nominee at a club that finishes 15th?
He reached over 20 league goals for Newcastle on 4 separate occasions during his time there. He was far too good for them. Newcastle fans didn't use his loyalty against him in an attempt to undermine his ability. Instead, they idolised him.
He's one of their own though and he retired well before the insanity of social media kicked in.
If he wasn't a Geordie they'd still have a statue of him at St James'. I agree that social media and internet forums will always give rise to contrarian opinions that would be ordinarily laughed out of the stadium if said on a match day.
Sterling, Tevez, RvP, and probably Ashley Cole. Those were top players at the time of a transfer. They DO happen. SaF also admitted he tried for Gerrard.
Agreed.
Definitely possible. We'll never know. I think, it can be said that in the few games we've seen Cunha (and to a degree Mount) play, we've seen how useful it is to have a player in that area that isn't as uncomfortable as Bruno and able to make a ball stick, take on defenders and so on. A good team most likely would have been able to find a way around that though.
That was my song from last season onwards but we can't sell him now and therefor should make use of him. And it isn't impossible. Just have him do what he does right now, with the slight adjustment of playing as one of AMs.
For what its worth - my SCA value was from this season. And your source confirms his 9th place (again, not trying to make that look bad) for this season as well. (And just to add to the ambivalence, even that xA value (unfortunately an xGA doesn't seem to be available on your source) would have to be taken with a grain of salt. Because a player who would be spamming (your words) and generate an xA of 0.6 with 6 "chances" might not be a better creator than a player who generates an xA of 0.6 with 2 "chances". So yeah...)
Well he didn't win many awards, did he? Since when are we taking internal awards so seriously? Again, he earned those rewards absolutely. But the competition for places within our team were dire (and calling it dire feels really generous when reading it out loud). We can talk about him being the best signing post Fergie all day long, it won't help. And it won't change the fact that he is just as much connected with the downfall of United as a club just like Maguire, Rashford or Shaw. And thats not me saying its all their fault. There were a lot of factors involved, some apparently still not fully rectified.
No not really. But some of the arguments are the result of a something I'd call tension that this thread is unfortunately known for. But I see your point - as so often, Criticism gets overdone. Praising gets overdone. Issue with Bruno is, that criticism was for a long time met with certain reactions.
Agreed. It is a bad argument. Just for the record, I'm sure we'd be able to find just as many posts about him going into the team of most of the successful teams out there. So yes, overcompensation I guess.
I am not saying he "just" creates low quality chances. I said a lot of the things that are counted as "chance" aren't things that would be talked about as serious chances by most football fans. Of course he is a good chance creator, but yes, he tends to rush things, he acts on first impulse. He isn't just spamming balls but there are games, where he seems to want to force it.
Palmer has 1.1 more than Bruno which I'd say is quite bit when it comes to expected values but apart from that, yes, whatever I say about Bruno also applies to other players with the same numbers. And just to make sure - my point isn't to diminish his contribution - I just want to show that stuff like "571 chances since he is here, this is sooooooooooooooo incredible" sounds way better than it really is because a "chance" for this stat is the equivalent of a shot - a stat that is dated and shouldn't be used anymore since better stats are available. Knowing full well that Bruno will still rank really high, but not towering over the rest.Fotmob has him with most chances created in the league....
And 4th in expected assists....
So he is actually closely in line with the likes of Salah and Palmer in terms of chances created Vs xA.
With the numbers being in line, are we to say that Palmer has the "inability to generate good chances. Not chances itself - good chances." as you said?
I wouldn't call him elite but thats not a hill I am going to die on in here. If you want to call him that, you are welcome to do so. I think, some of his strength are really really good. Others not so much. And apparently I can't look just at the good stuff.
I don't know. But I couldn't care less to honest. I mean, he was a nominee. I just looked it up, he didn't win and even if, it wouldn't have changed much. Nobody claims that Bruno didn't stand out for us. Last season maybe even more since absolutely nobody else even resembled a little bit of form and Amad who was on the right track fell away injured. The posts that seem to trigger you are answers on posts that triggered his critics. When his chance creation is being brought up for the 12.000.000th time when the debate is about whether he is doing a good job as a CM. Or whether it is a good idea or not to consider selling an aging player.
I know it is fecked up
I get triggered all the time, I am sure you and a lot of the other posters feel the same.
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The link i posted, as well as the screen shot shows he is 4th in xA last season, not 9th...
https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/leagues/47/stats/season/23685/players/expected_assists/premier-league
You right, he didn't win those individual awards because, as you should know, they normally come hand in hand with winning the league, or at least competing for the title.
Is there even a player in the league that gets recognized in the same way that Bruno does, even though he is playing for a team that is completely irrelevant when it comes to title hunts in recent history?
It is a terrible argument. We all know if he was playing for a team that had a similar league history to United but not one of the traditional English giants, (let's say Spurs) he would have been bought by another club by now.
My point is there seems to be a correlation between all those players I listed. There seems to be around a ratio of roughly 9 to 1 in terms of chances created to expected assists. Palmer having 1.1 more in terms of xA is nothing. Were not trying to split hairs over one assist in a 38 game season, are we?
Now if Bruno had 90 chances to 5 xA, then, then obviously that is something to look into, but he is trending in line with the most productive and best players in the league.
I also dare say that if you have better players to serve, then your xA to chances created ratio will increase given those players have got a much better chance of making something out of your pass.
I wouldn't call him elite but that's not a hill I am going to die on in here. If you want to call him that, you are welcome to do so. I think, some of his strength are really really good. Others not so much. And apparently I can't look just at the good stuff.
I don't know. But I couldn't care less to honest. I mean, he was a nominee. I just looked it up, he didn't win and even if, it wouldn't have changed much. Nobody claims that Bruno didn't stand out for us. Last season maybe even more since absolutely nobody else even resembled a little bit of form and Amad who was on the right track fell away injured. The posts that seem to trigger you are answers on posts that triggered his critics. When his chance creation is being brought up for the 12.000.000th time when the debate is about whether he is doing a good job as a CM. Or whether it is a good idea or not to consider selling an aging player.
I know it is fecked up
You cant name a player because there isn't one. Bruno is the outlier in the league. The elite productive player that is always up there in terms of stats and peer recognition, but he's played for the one big team in the league that has criminally under performed for years, despite spending as much as everyone else.
I do agree though, he can be very frustrating. Playing hero ball may be a part of playing with others who are sub par.
Not at all triggered. I just feel that many on The Caf would put Bruno near the very top of their list of problems at United. I see him as being one of the positive things we have had going for us over the last few years.
For what its worth, i would have sold him last summer. Especially if the plan was to move him into a double pivot, which is proving to be a completely nonsensical decision. No other manager would dream about moving their most productive player further away from the goal.
RVP stemmed from a fall out with Arsenal.
United had contractual issues with Tevez and Fergie wasn't going giving him playing guarantees.
Sterling and Ashley Cole was also contract issues. Both i believe wanted more that what Liverpool / Arsenal were willing to pay.
Despite United being poor, Bruno hasnt had much to complain about. Well payed and seems to be determined to win with United.
But I guess we are going to knock his loyalty now?
Which is exactly what I was saying. This = the current. And in the current one he is 9th in xA while being 1st in SCA per 90.
I don't know. And I don't care mate
I think, you are trying to run in open doors - I don't want to depict him as useless or anything. I am just trying to show that he doesn't have demi-god like abilities some posters try to depict (from my subjective point of view). "We" don't "know" anything. You maybe convinced yourself that this is the case. And some other fans might agree with it. But we don't know for sure (even though thats a very reasonable assumption, I'll give you that). Just one thing that is important to me: Bruno as a player, a skillset plus physical attributes isn't perfect just like any other player out there. Bruno comes with weaknesses and if our own scouts even commented that he loses the ball a lot, then I think, there is also a reasonable case to be made that other teams notice that as well and come to the conclusion that they do just fine without such a player.
Which is a statement I wouldn't react to because I think thats fair. I react to things like "look he made 130 more chances than the next highest in this list".
From my understanding thats not how xA works. Those values don't incorporate the quality of players only other factors.
The team is severely underperforming in attacking productivity for quite some time. Thats due to multiple factors with one being the inability to generate high value chances on a consitent basis. And since there is absolutely nobody in the team who was able to step up, everything goes through Bruno. Obviously this effects his personal numbers. There were times where he took care of every dead ball situation (not a dig, if nobody in our team is capable, then he has to). His numbers are effected by the way we play. And he has been a staple for our team to multiple points where everything goes through him - is it because he is so crazy good or is it because who else could do it? I know your answer, you know mine. The thing is - it won't be anything more than our opinions.
Could be for sure. For what its worth - I also don't want to be the seemingly ungrateful guy who always lays into him. I appreciate that he has this relentless trait, that he keeps trying, that he is so robust and always available. I also appreciate, that he seems to be a really good guy off the pitch. I care about the club too though. And I personally think, it wasn't to clubs benefit, that some players received some per se untouchable status by decisionmakers, managers and fans. And thats not just Bruno of course, it was also Pogba to a degree, Rashford for sure, Shaw probably too, De Gea maybe as well. It felt, that often enough, multiple factors went in some decisions even though they should have been made on on-the-pitch-stuff only. I guess, thats why I am arguing against putting Bruno on a pedestal now (not that you attempt to do so, but just like you think many are putting him at the top of the problems list, some others act as if Bruno would be the eternal perfect centerpiece that we have to build around for as long as we can)
Wouldn't have expected that but nice to know. Only shows that probably more often than not, posters share more commonalities than they think.
And yes, I think, the decision really is damning. I mean, I can kinda see, why Amorim thinks he has to do so since all other midfield options are so under par when it comes to passing ability and I don't think, there is a formation that gets by without a passer from the midfield. It was a huge mistake not to bring in a midfielder (maybe even more) this summer. Honestly, I'd love to have a private chat with Amorim only to learn about what really went on behind closed doors. I'd be seriously interested what went into the decision not to go for an area that is so vital and where we our available options are so downright poor.
Chance creation is such a broad stat that literally any pass with an attempt on goal ( no matter how bad the attempt is) is counted as “chance creation”
They should make a filter of chance creation of more than a certain xG to actually make sense of the original stat
Over hit pass which the attacker had no way of getting under control will count as chance creation. Using stats to compare players can be misleading because of how broad some of these stats actually are
Its why KDB always felt superior player to Bruno in eye test but Bruno had some stats superior to KDB
They should make a filter of chance creation of more than a certain xG to actually make sense of the original stat
Over hit pass which the attacker had no way of getting under control will count as chance creation. Using stats to compare players can be misleading because of how broad some of these stats actually are
Its why KDB always felt superior player to Bruno in eye test but Bruno had some stats superior to KDB
I love the chance that Brian McClair created for Beckham away to Wimbledon
It's a YouTube video - not sure what that has to do with the usefulness of the stat.
And no, I didn't say that at all - why are you making things up? You asked which title contenders Bruno played for before joining us, hence pointed out that his very club won their league the season after.
If you cant post the link, what is the title of this Youtube vid that shows each of Bruno's 9 chances he created in that one game?
I would suggest one does not exist, because you didn't look at all of his 9 chances.
Making things up?
You said....
And i put you straight by explaining that even the densest football fan wouldn't knock Bruno for not challenging for a title with Udinese and Sampdoria. He wasnt at Sporting at a time they were in contention. Again, is that his fault?
Just a terrible and nonsensical point for you to make here.
They do. It is called expected assists. Top players expected assists do tally with total chance creation, as i posted previously.
He may be superior. Helps when he is also surrounded by superior players.
Man Utd 2:1 Chelsea
New
MOTM
Man we'd be depressing to watch without him.
Man we'd be depressing to watch without him.
My captain. Best performance of the season. You lot can never make me hate him, ever.
Took him out of my FPL team and replaced him with Palmer...
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
Immense work rate.
Great game, specially the closer to the oppo box. His work rate across the pitch greatly helpful as usual.
Well taken goal.
Well taken goal.