Totally missed my point I see.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 12
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 2
yes. And to even worsen the bad story - it was United in 2 out of those 3 cases who offered Real Madrid those easy outs by taking their aging players.
That slowly dawned on me as I was typing it.
I didn't say otherwise, but constantly pushing up when we have the ball has negatives.
Bruno's been a poor starter for the last few years now. First 19 league games of the following seasons:
22/23: 2 goals 3 assists
23/24: 3 goals, 3 assists (1 penalty)
24/25: 4 goals, 4 assists (2 penalties)
So without penalties he averages about 5 g/a in the first 19 games of the league season. It's not terrible, but he's not someone you can rely on in the first half of the season. He was playing as a CAM in each of those seasons.
22/23: 2 goals 3 assists
23/24: 3 goals, 3 assists (1 penalty)
24/25: 4 goals, 4 assists (2 penalties)
So without penalties he averages about 5 g/a in the first 19 games of the league season. It's not terrible, but he's not someone you can rely on in the first half of the season. He was playing as a CAM in each of those seasons.
The problem with us un recent years has been us passing sideways. He does push a lot forward and sometimes gets random. that’s probably our overall play is very unorganised. I sometimes feel we have no game plan anyway
I think he needs to stop being so selfish with penalties… let some of the attackers have it to give them confidence. I remember him doing this once for Martial.
Running into the same area as other players just limits our options, passing sideways can open up angles. We desperately didn't need players running from the ball.
I suppose I have some sympathy for him in that he may well have believed that he could actually lead United back to being a great club again, that he could have helped Amorim turn things around and that he could have had a Bryan Robson type of legacy perhaps (not as good obviously) but he must have serious doubts if that will happen now and it probably might have been best for both player and club if he had been sold.
His performance today was awful. I do understand the frustration and it does look as though we will regret not taking that money for him, but I've found it difficult to dislike Bruno because he's the one player that has put in great numbers consistently down the years e.g., 20+ combined goals and assists in EVERY season he's been here. I've seen so many players that have survived off one or two good seasons and have been awful or injured a lot of the time in the last ten years for United (Shaw, Rashford, Martial, Dalot, Lindelof etc) but Bruno shouldn't be lumped in with that group, even if you think he should have been sold earlier.
When Bruno is regarded as the club‘s best player and leader you know we are doomed.
Its because it obviously works just as it did last season. The problem is it doesnt work to the extent that posters want - which is miracle worker one man team level or complaining. And by no means was today a good game from Bruno. However, he had the most touches (81, 2nd most was Shaw with 10 less) and the most passes (54 with De Ligt 2nd with 51) and we had most of the ball. He fed the ball into the #10s a bunch of times which is what he needs to do. Pedri and Kimmich have to trust that giving the ball to the attacking players will yield enough results and arent blamed when they dont.
I dont think fbref has the stats yet, but I'd imagine he'll probably have the most progressive passes even today when he wasnt as good as some of his previous matches. Unfortunately the attacking players he finds need to come up with something. Sesko did, Mbeumo almost did and won a penalty. But 2 defensive mistakes and a poor penalty from Fernandes himself meant we needed 2 goals for a point and we managed 1.
If it turns out he didnt make many progressive passes then fair enough, even having the most touches and passes isnt enough. He needs to be finding the attacking players in front of him and then getting a few assists and goals himself but from CM its just going to be a handful and not as many as playing as a #10.
The situation with the Saudi move was pathetic from senior management. 'We've received an offer but it's up to Bruno'. He should have been thanked for his contribution to the club and pushed out the door. A mecurial talent but an awful Captain whose attitude infects rather than inspires his teammates. Today we had at least 3 occasions of a move being 100% destroyed by his sloppy touch, pass, miscontrol and he responds with flailing arms and a sulk towards a junior teammate.
Then again, who in the squad would be a better Captain? Maybe De Ligt...Mbuemo has come in with a good work ethic. Outside of them, we're devoid of leadership.
Then again, who in the squad would be a better Captain? Maybe De Ligt...Mbuemo has come in with a good work ethic. Outside of them, we're devoid of leadership.
It’s mad to be playing the most productive #10 in the world out of position.
It does and it doesn’t, he’s a frustrating character but also brilliant, as was Cantona albeit in different ways.
I can totally understand some of the criticism of him but not all and for me it goes way too far. Hes the only player we have who has shown any quality at all in recent years, yet he’s seen as a problem.
That definitely does bother me, it also infuriates and confuses me.
Can’t quite remember but without looking back, I imagine he still had better outputs than any other player in the squad.
This just confirms what many of us have said for years: Bruno is the ultimate stat padder when the pressure is off.
He usually stinks up the first half of the season (there’s a reason Mazroui was our best player last season), then boosts his numbers late and fans completely forget. Cue the “we’d be relegated without him” takes - when he helped put us in that hole to begin with.
One of the most overrated players at the club and it's time we look at the common denominator. Every manager that has made Bruno the main man and built a team around him has failed miserably. That has to change.
Pretty much this, especially the bolded bit. The delay was a joke. Bruno's been a fantastic penalty taker for us over the years, so it's not unusual to miss a couple here and there. The timing hurts, but that's life under Amorim - there's so little going well thanks to his coaching that every error is magnified and made to look far far worse. Other team players, even the big names, make many mistakes as well. But they usually play in teams where they can redeem themselves through their strengths.
Bruno is being asked to play in a midfield two alongside inadequate defensive cover in a league where he's almost always up against physical, aggressive three man midfields. He's far away from the places of the pitch where he is traditionally most effective, with far more consequences to the weaker parts of his game, with his passing options mostly being wing backs who do jack shit with the ball. He's being asked to do things he must know don't work anymore but is still trying to be professional. You can't tell me all these things don't affect a player's mentality on the pitch, or their confidence, or their belief. Like everyone else at this club, he's been set up to fail.
I genuinely feel sorry for the hate he receives. He was a moany, whinging player even under Ole - opposition players always hated him for it. Now that the club could not sign other leaders and he's captain, you want him to change into Mr. Cool? People keep complaining about how he's always losing possession - his risk taking has never changed, either. Everyone knows Bruno will try something that will end up with him losing the ball, he may try to adapt and reduce this, but that's just who he is. It's not his fault the manager plays to the system's strengths over the players' strengths.
Yep, we should have sold him, in retrospect. Not because he is a poor player, but because as a club we decided to handicap his strengths and accentuate his weaknesses - we simply don't use him right. People question if he's the best player at the club - he has been, and could be - but won't, not under managers who keep fecking up the midfield and don't know how to give him the foundation to show his best qualities.
It's remarkable how we've devalued and demotivated both Bruno and Mainoo in one go under Amorim.
I advocated for it even last year. But I see why the decisions were made as they were made and I wouldn't anybody of making a mistake. Because of what you said.
I agree. I think, some of the dislike that is expressed is a bit OTT. But as I alluded to a couple of times - some topics are tense and this thread is known for it showing its ugly sides. Some overcompensations show it.
I mean, we both know that we won't convince each other but I definitely don't know how you can say this. I mean, we had some(and I feel generous saying some) good results but also many many bad ones. To say it works based on that feels so wrong, like such a bad conclusion. Football can be weird - sometimes you can make bad decisions and still come out victorious but that doesn't mean the decision wasn't bad. Of course there are games where United dominates the ball because the other teams just waives possession away - then a player like Bruno can play there since he'll play in the same regions as he would as an AM but how many games are that? In how many games does United dominate the ball against the other teams wishes?
I don't know how you can start saying that he didn't have a good game and then list some numbers as if he had a good one. Stats are useful but not everything can be measured (for now). Bruno didn't have a good game today, which is why so many posters point it out. Sure, the missed pen definitely added 30% of posts but still. If you now start and pick some numbers up that you consider important, what point does that make? What if I go and tell you that based on whoscored he had 78% pass completion, made no interceptions, did attempt one dribble and failed with it, was dribbled past once and hasn't won any aerial. All those things are stats and just picking some to paint a certain picture is pointless, wouldn't you agree?
I don't think you can just look at individual numbers when the question is whether a player is suited for a certain task in the team. Just look around - talk to neutrals. Do you think, they all are part of the conspiracy trying to diminish Brunos achievements? How many teams field players like him in midfield? Weak AMs who struggle under pressure? You won't find many. Probably none. And thats for a reason. Tackling a lot and keypasses isn't the essence of midfield play. Its more. And most people know.
Probably why we spent £125 million on #10s this summer. Our other options there are £37 million Zirkzee, £60 million Mount and £18.5 million Amad. All together we have £240.5 million pounds worth of #10 options and most of them fit. They should be able to deliver enough with the amount of the ball Bruno supplies them. Again I dont know for sure he did today but in previous games Mbeumo has received one of the highest amounts of progressive passes in the league.
Because Bruno can usually do more than just pass the ball into the #10s. He usually has a bunch of key passes as well, which isnt always the case with Pedri and Kimmich and players like that. So for Bruno just having the most touches and playing the most passes isnt having a good game. He can do a bit more on top of that. Today he had 1 key pass. So he didnt quite deliver what he can in terms of directly creating chances. And the most important part... He missed the penalty that could have levelled the game. So obviously he wasnt good today and you dont think he was either. However had he scored that penalty he would have had a good game.
Most people dont know what they're talking about. Most people dont even have their own opinions. They're just parroting something someone else said.
Thats completely crazy to me. So the outcome of a freaking pen changes whether he played well or not for 90minutes?! Thats fecking C R A Z Y. But it somehow is in line with your argumentation where you seem to (over-)value specific aspects. So be it.
I'll make a note. Just out of interest - you are one to trust, I guess?
It says about the state of our club. In our vintage years he would a squad player at best. Imagine if you told the 90s or 2000s Utd fans that he would be our best player in 2025, they would probably laugh at you.
It would be like idolizing Nicky Butt or John O'Shea back in the 2000s. And it would be harsh toward Butt and O'Shea who contributed far more to Utd than this false messiah called Bruno Fernandes.
Thats completely crazy to me. So the outcome of a freaking pen changes whether he played well or not for 90minutes?! Thats fecking C R A Z Y. But it somehow is in line with your argumentation where you seem to (over-)value specific aspects. So be it.
I'll make a note. Just out of interest - you are one to trust, I guess?
For me to trust yes obviously. Its up to you whether to trust my opinion based on my others
Yes obviously missing the penalty that would have drawn us level is a major factor for whether he played well today. If he scores thats a goal + most touches + most passes, a little bit of ball winning, 1 key pass and again I presume a bunch of progressive passes. If it turns out he didnt play any progressive passes maybe the penalty wouldnt be enough to swing it. But I dont know if he did or didnt (just a feeling or assumption) so the penalty is the decider.
For the record, I do not
but its just opinions on a football forum so no bad bloodthats, quite something. Didn't even consider this line of thought to be honest - only shows how differently people perceive the game.
I don't think the rest of those league seasons look stellar either, especially when you take the penalties into context. He's been middling in the league for a while and boosts the stats in the cups.
He was 33.
He exemplifies United of recent years, good one day, terrible the next, on and on, and recently we've been terrible one day and terrible the next, like he has been.
The first thing a new manager should do is strip him of the captaincy. After, start rotating him with Kobbie.
For the record, I do not
thats, quite something. Didn't even consider this line of thought to be honest - only shows how differently people perceive the game.
Yeah no worries. The truth is even if you said you ended up completely agreeing with me and thanked me it wouldnt make a difference to me
I'm just making posts that I believe are sensible and supportive towards whom I believe is our best player and who the data normally backs up that being the case. Its up to everyone else to make their own minds up. Some might agree, some might disagree and in this example at this specific time most people will disagree so its even more important to do it. I feel good just from making my point.
Ideally yes I'd want it to be the majority opinion but I know that still wouldnt make it "right". I just think it would be healthier for our fans to appreciate our best player rather than moving from one player to the next as targets for blame. The players change but that doesn't.
So yeah bad penalty, not a good performance because of it but hes had some good performances this season in CM and will continue to have more in my opinion
Edit - By the way he isnt even my prefered penalty taker this season. I felt like after signing Mbeumo for so much money he needs to be taking penalties to help his goal count and give him confidence in front of goal. I dont see any good reason why that shouldnt be the case. So if he starts taking them instead of Bruno now thats ideal to me.
Frustrating he's not stepped up when we needed him to, twice, this season now. Obviously it's a team game, but he's been entrusted with penalties and they've been crucial ones.
Bare minimum is he needs to be taken off pens, he’s changed his style and it’s not working. Give it to Bryan for a bit.
Easily the worst captain in modern Utd history. Even Maguire and Ashley Young were better captains than Fernandes. He never takes any responsibility, has 0 leadership skills and always whines like a little girl. What's worse is that he blamed Yoro for his own mistakes and he got benched because of that.
He's been sheite since the start of the season. As a captain he should take some responsibility, but he would rather blame someone like Yoro I guess. His fanboys are even worse. I said that it would be like worshipping Nicky Butt or O'Shea back in 2000s.Yeah no worries. The truth is even if you said you ended up completely agreeing with me and thanked me it wouldnt make a difference to me
I'm just making posts that I believe are sensible and supportive towards whom I believe is our best player and who the data normally backs up that being the case. Its up to everyone else to make their own minds up. Some might agree, some might disagree and in this example at this specific time most people will disagree so its even more important to do it. I feel good just from making my point.
Ideally yes I'd want it to be the majority opinion but I know that still wouldnt make it "right". I just think it would be healthier for our fans to appreciate our best player rather than moving from one player to the next as targets for blame. The players change but that doesn't.
So yeah bad penalty, not a good performance because of it but hes had some good performances this season in CM and will continue to have more in my opinion
Edit - By the way he isnt even my prefered penalty taker this season. I felt like after signing Mbeumo for so much money he needs to be taking penalties to help his goal count and give him confidence in front of goal. I dont see any good reason why that shouldnt be the case. So if he starts taking them instead of Bruno now thats ideal to me.
Maybe if he wasn't a captain I would be less harsh on him, but he seems to be the epitome of everything that's wrong with modern Utd. A good player who's been overhyped by Utd fans as a false messiah because we've been a mess for so many years.
His atitude is also awful and not appropriate for a Man Utd captain. He gave us some good times but I can't help but notice how how he has 0 leadership skills and 0 authority on the pitch. I don't expect him to be the new Roy Keane but how can you be a even worse captain then someone like Ashley Young or Harry Maguire?!
Well said.Yeah no worries. The truth is even if you said you ended up completely agreeing with me and thanked me it wouldnt make a difference to me
I'm just making posts that I believe are sensible and supportive towards whom I believe is our best player and who the data normally backs up that being the case. Its up to everyone else to make their own minds up. Some might agree, some might disagree and in this example at this specific time most people will disagree so its even more important to do it. I feel good just from making my point.
Ideally yes I'd want it to be the majority opinion but I know that still wouldnt make it "right". I just think it would be healthier for our fans to appreciate our best player rather than moving from one player to the next as targets for blame. The players change but that doesn't.
So yeah bad penalty, not a good performance because of it but hes had some good performances this season in CM and will continue to have more in my opinion
Edit - By the way he isnt even my prefered penalty taker this season. I felt like after signing Mbeumo for so much money he needs to be taking penalties to help his goal count and give him confidence in front of goal. I dont see any good reason why that shouldnt be the case. So if he starts taking them instead of Bruno now thats ideal to me.
He stepped up against Burnley and united now has consecutive home wins.
Bruno also brought united to the top of the table when he first arrived plus he won the Fa cup and the recent nations league with Portugal.
Rubbish decision to make him our main CM. I’d rather give Mainoo chances.
We had 2 good options this summer and failed at both:
1. Keep Bruno and play him at #10 where he is best and has proven to be quality and not sign one of Cunha or Mbeumo and used that money on a midfielder that fits this shit system.
2. Told Bruno thank you for everything and tell him to take the Saudi offer and use that money on a midfielder to fit this shit system and probably have some left over for something else.
1. Keep Bruno and play him at #10 where he is best and has proven to be quality and not sign one of Cunha or Mbeumo and used that money on a midfielder that fits this shit system.
2. Told Bruno thank you for everything and tell him to take the Saudi offer and use that money on a midfielder to fit this shit system and probably have some left over for something else.
Did our amazing, strong, leader of a captain come out and say anything post game? Or did he dodge the press like he always does after a loss and send somebody else out?
The very fact their manager started making subs tells you all you need to know... he knew it might bother Bruno and get him all emotional the longer he had to ponder.
The very fact their manager started making subs tells you all you need to know... he knew it might bother Bruno and get him all emotional the longer he had to ponder.
This!
He's been crap as a CM. He's been awful in far too many games in general now too. We need to find another way than just relying on Bruno. It's made us extremely one dimensional.
We will still get a fortune for Bruno next summer. Prob 80 million or something stupid like that. He's the only player at the club left that's worth that kind of money and it will be a shame when he goes but I feel like we've no choice but to go in a new direction when we can't win back to back games
There was an instance in the game today where he was on the right flank, and i think it was Dorgu who pinged a long pass towards him. Bruno miscontrols the ball and immediately raises his hands up and start to blame others. Its like he is absolved from any blame at all and its always others fault - Yoro did not mark his man, pass was not good enough, etc.
Not sure what Amorim sees in him but that is a terrible trait to have as a captain/leader.
Not sure what Amorim sees in him but that is a terrible trait to have as a captain/leader.
It was a great pass and Bruno had space and time to bring it down without any issue.
What he did there ina very specific moment is very unbecoming of a captain. He has next to no leadership