[kouroux]

We had 2 good options this summer and failed at both:

1. Keep Bruno and play him at #10 where he is best and has proven to be quality and not sign one of Cunha or Mbeumo and used that money on a midfielder that fits this shit system.

2. Told Bruno thank you for everything and tell him to take the Saudi offer and use that money on a midfielder to fit this shit system and probably have some left over for something else.

Ineos are incompetent. Just like we had th option of sacking ETH perfectly after the FA Cup win or Amorim after the EL final loss. They have had several moments where decisiveness was needed and wasn't particularly hard to display and they failed everytime

 

[Lash]

He stepped up against Burnley and united now has consecutive home wins.

Bruno also brought united to the top of the table when he first arrived plus he won the Fa cup and the recent nations league with Portugal.

None of that goes against what I said. We needed him yesterday and Fulham to stick it in the net from 12 yards and he didn't. In our current form, we need to be taking our chances and penalties are as good as it gets.

 

[Castia]

Love Bruno he’s been a star player for us during one of our worst periods in recent history. That being said if the plan was to play him in a midfield 2 whilst signing 2 players that essentially play in his spot what the feck was we thinking rejecting 100m?

The people making decisions still don’t have a fecking clue.

 

[Red00012]

Ineos are incompetent. Just like we had th option of sacking ETH perfectly after the FA Cup win or Amorim after the EL final loss. They have had several moments where decisiveness was needed and wasn't particularly hard to display and they failed everytime

I’d be thinking Amorim had the final say on that not INEOS

 

[Escobar]

Not being ruthless costs any club. And it shows here so clearly

 

[AndySmith1990]

Not being ruthless costs any club. And it shows here so clearly

What pisses me off is it's been this way for a decade, and we just don't learn from it

 

[Reddevildans]

Absolute waste in midfield. Although not the biggest fan and wanted him sold in summer, I think he's out of position and we would benefit if he's upfront with the other attackers. He's not our biggest problem. I rather have him in our team and we are better for it. We are missing his high risk but creative nature upfront.
Yet another player Amorim is playing out of position.

 

[Godfather]

Not being ruthless costs any club. And it shows here so clearly

Exactly this. It's probably the biggest factor in our downfall. Compare us to Bayern. They are fecking brutal and it makes them successful. We hang to too long to everyone. For decades now.

 

[Desert Eagle]

So predictable that when this loser stayed we would have another miserable season. Amorim should take him along when he leaves.

 

[Amira]

He needs to be taken off set pieces. I don’t like the look of him just grabbing the ball when it’s a free kick and Mbuemo’s corners have looked more dangerous.

For penalties he has historically been good so not too bothered there (for now).

 

[redDNA]

Bein played out of position, I think he can play together with our new signings.

.....................Lammens................
Mazraoui......MDL...Yoro.......Dorgu.
.............Cas.....Maino/Ugarte...........
....................Bruno....................
Cunha...........................Mbuemo/Amad
.................Sesko.


But Amorim in his 'Wisdom' is playing him in a two-man midfield.

 

[TRUE NUMBER 9]

Our best and most productive player since he signed and is now being played out of position to suit this ridiculous formation. We then act surprised when his performances suffer.

Issue is the manager and tactics, not Bruno.

I agree, however, we also need to add another glaring issue that is some of the players, namely Bayindir, Shaw, Maguire, Dalot, Casemiro, Ugarte etc. who are woefully short of the required standard.

There is a lot to fix.

 

[NoLogo]

Actually the only reason I would like to see the 4231 again is that Bruno would play higher up the pitch again. No idea why we keep playing him as a DM, he is awful in that position.

 

[Pickle85]

So predictable that when this loser stayed we would have another miserable season. Amorim should take him along when he leaves.

Classy

 

[Ekeke]

So he had 6 progressive passes against Brentford joint most with Cunha. 6 against Brentford, 7 against Chelsea, 18 against City as an extreme outlier, 7 against Burnley, 5 against Fulham. Damsgaard also had 6 for Brentford

Also 8 passes into the final 3rd which is double anyone else on the pitch (Joint 2nd place Cunha and Damsgaard had 4)

 

[Escobar]

What pisses me off is it's been this way for a decade, and we just don't learn from it

Exactly. We need to romanticize everything. Revamp the attack, sell Bruno for 100m, invest in 2 new midfielders or WB if you support the manager

 

[Berbaclass]

I don't see the issue with him in midfield because he's just a box to box player that in the past has had good output, trouble is he's just not very good at it amymore.

He has abysmal positional discipline.

 

[ForeverRed1]

Rotate him with the two number 10s or don’t play him at all.

Mbuemo cunha and Bruno is a very nice problem to have in them number 10 slots

 

[pelterz]

None of that goes against what I said. We needed him yesterday and Fulham to stick it in the net from 12 yards and he didn't. In our current form, we need to be taking our chances and penalties are as good as it gets.

It’s not just the penalty he’s been awful all season. The number of games his head drops is ridiculous. As with Shaw and Mcguire, living off past glories. I don’t think the club and the manager have a chance until the senior players are all gone. Everyone talks about bad attitude of youngsters or new players being dragged down. That comes from senior players. There must be something going on behind the seems because Bruno is the worst captain in the league by a huge margin.

 

[Silas]

Funny looking back at this thread by @Rozay

And now we're playing him in a two.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Absolute waste in midfield. Although not the biggest fan and wanted him sold in summer, I think he's out of position and we would benefit if he's upfront with the other attackers. He's not our biggest problem. I rather have him in our team and we are better for it. We are missing his high risk but creative nature upfront.
Yet another player Amorim is playing out of position.

Not only are 1) we not making use of his abilities by playing him in midfield, we are also 2) actively hurting the team because he doesn't have the mentality and ability to run the midfield. To make it worse, we are 3) blocking our best prospect's path into the first team and denying him his development minutes.

I'd say he is absolutely one of our biggest problems.

 

[Cloudface]

Bruno's been a poor starter for the last few years now. First 19 league games of the following seasons:

22/23: 2 goals 3 assists

23/24: 3 goals, 3 assists (1 penalty)

24/25: 4 goals, 4 assists (2 penalties)

So without penalties he averages about 5 g/a in the first 19 games of the league season. It's not terrible, but he's not someone you can rely on in the first half of the season. He was playing as a CAM in each of those seasons.

His total non-penalty goals in the league those seasons were:

22/23 - 6
23/24 - 6
24/25 - 5

So not exactly the numbers of a world class 10 who should have been untouchable in that position. He's struggled to be productive in the league for a while (at least in terms of goalscoring).

For reference Cunha and Mbuemo hit 15 non penalty goals last season, two less than Bruno scored in three.

 

[Scandi Red]

His total non-penalty goals in the league those seasons were:

22/23 - 6
23/24 - 6
24/25 - 5

Why leave out assists which are equally important, especially for a creator?

Non-penalty goals + assists in the PL:

22/23 - 14
23/24 - 14
24/25 - 16

And this is while delivering good defensive numbers and trying to assist the likes of Højlund, Weghorst, Zirkzee and Rashford that looks dead inside.

 

[Lash]

Why leave out assists which are equally important, especially for a creator?

Non-penalty goals + assists in the PL:

22/23 - 14
23/24 - 14
24/25 - 16

And this is while delivering good defensive numbers and trying to assist the likes of Højlund, Weghorst, Zirkzee and Rashford that looks dead inside.

Because like most arguments with stats about players people have a problem with, it's best to present the ones that prove my point.

 

[Ted Lasso]

Never considered him world class. Now he's just shite.

Every single issue we heard about when Ole and team were mulling the transfer has turned out to be true and, as expected, detrimental to building a title winning team.

He would be a match winning sub in games we're chasing. But such is the standard of our club now...

Credit to his achievements with the club but I think we've passed the "Coutinho monent " parallel.

 

[AFIABM]

Funny looking back at this thread by @Rozay

And now we're playing him in a two.

Most of the fanbase rail against making decisions that could see us to greater success if followed up wisely.

It was the same with selling Ruud in favour of Saha and many more since

 

[Ted Lasso]

So he had 6 progressive passes against Brentford joint most with Cunha. 6 against Brentford, 7 against Chelsea, 18 against City as an extreme outlier, 7 against Burnley, 5 against Fulham. Damsgaard also had 6 for Brentford

Also 8 passes into the final 3rd which is double anyone else on the pitch (Joint 2nd place Cunha and Damsgaard had 4)

Is there a statistic on his errors? Was just thinking back to all the reports when scouting him: his progressive passing and scoring and assists was always impressive. But his error rate was also exceptionally high.

Take for instance that cross field pass to him, out wide which he misses completely and ball goes out. Kills a promising attack in vital moment of building momentum. That or losing the ball, happens with great regularity. In fact id be curious if Bruno loses the ball more than Pogba did for us.

It's not sustainable for a top team. It's why we were the only one to go for him. And why no big offers besides Saudi have come in.

 

[NZT-One]

Actually the only reason I would like to see the 4231 again is that Bruno would play higher up the pitch again. No idea why we keep playing him as a DM, he is awful in that position.

Well if we are being honest to ourselves, having him "as the furthest forward part of the midfield 3" also led to us having an effective midfield two. Its not too long ago guys.

So he had 6 progressive passes against Brentford joint most with Cunha. 6 against Brentford, 7 against Chelsea, 18 against City as an extreme outlier, 7 against Burnley, 5 against Fulham. Damsgaard also had 6 for Brentford

Also 8 passes into the final 3rd which is double anyone else on the pitch (Joint 2nd place Cunha and Damsgaard had 4)

A progressive pass is a pass that is played up the pitch. Bruno is in the team because he is the best option in midfield to do just that. So he does it. That alone doesn't make him play well. And since you looked at the numbers, why don't you put them all in?

70 passes attempted, 54 completed, 71% success rate, 1 Keypass. Your 6 progressive passes are potentially inclueded in the 8 into the final third. His xA was 0.0. His xAG was 0.0. Since chance creation is such a thing for some of you, why not add those numbers in games like yesterdays as well? And since winning the ball was a hot topic last week end, lets add the defensive numbers as well: 1 tackle, 0 tackle won, 2 dribblers tackled, 1 successful, 0 blocks, 0 interceptions, 4 clearances, 0 errors leading to shots and 0 aerials 0 won (with 0 attempted). He had the most touches with 79, with Dalot, Shaw and Deligt following - quite typical for a pivot I'd say. He attempted 1 take on, lost it.

 

[ItDoesntEvenMata]

Is there a statistic on his errors? Was just thinking back to all the reports when scouting him: his progressive passing and scoring and assists was always impressive. But his error rate was also exceptionally high.

Take for instance that cross field pass to him, out wide which he misses completely and ball goes out. Kills a promising attack in vital moment of building momentum. That or losing the ball, happens with great regularity. In fact id be curious if Bruno loses the ball more than Pogba did for us.

It's not sustainable for a top team. It's why we were the only one to go for him. And why no big offers besides Saudi have come in.

I don’t think there is. I often watch games and think if there were a ‘chances or pressures created for the other team’ stat he’d score as highly as he does in our own chances created

 

[Ekeke]

Well if we are being honest to ourselves, having him "as the furthest forward part of the midfield 3" also led to us having an effective midfield two. Its not too long ago guys.


A progressive pass is a pass that is played up the pitch. Bruno is in the team because he is the best option in midfield to do just that. So he does it. That alone doesn't make him play well. And since you looked at the numbers, why don't you put them all in?

70 passes attempted, 54 completed, 71% success rate, 1 Keypass. Your 6 progressive passes are potentially inclueded in the 8 into the final third. His xA was 0.0. His xAG was 0.0. Since chance creation is such a thing for some of you, why not add those numbers in games like yesterdays as well? And since winning the ball was a hot topic last week end, lets add the defensive numbers as well: 1 tackle, 0 tackle won, 2 dribblers tackled, 1 successful, 0 blocks, 0 interceptions, 4 clearances, 0 errors leading to shots and 0 aerials 0 won (with 0 attempted). He had the most touches with 79, with Dalot, Shaw and Deligt following - quite typical for a pivot I'd say. He attempted 1 take on, lost it.

So its actually not exactly a "pass played up the pitch"

A progressive pass is "A completed pass that moves the ball at least 10 yards towards the opponents goal from its furthest point in the last 6 passes, or any completed pass into the penalty area. Excluding the defensive 40% of the pitch"

 

[FerociousCorgis]

Love how people jokingly said wait until midweek and people start defending Bruno with some fecking stats when we all saw how shit he was.... and we don't even make it until midweek haha.

 

[NZT-One]

Is there a statistic on his errors?

For what its worth, fbref says that he didn't have an error in yesterdays game, that ended in a shot. Whoscored says he wasn't dispossed once but I guess, thats some fairly special definition that doesn't include passes.

Was just thinking back to all the reports when scouting him: his progressive passing and scoring and assists was always impressive. But his error rate was also exceptionally high.

Those stats will always be a little tricky to interpret since so many factors go into. Getting dispossessed can happen in multiple ways, you can misplace passes, miscontrol a ball, get tackled or lose an attempt to dribble. Roles on the pitch also play into it - if you are the sole attacking outlet of your team, you are expected to take more risks than others.

What can be said is that there numbers that do indicate, that he loses it on a regular basis
5th most for this season - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask/most-possession-lost-this-season-premier-league
2nd most for last season (ironically we brought in Nr. 1 for last season during the summer) - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask/most-possession-lost-last-season-premier-league
1st - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+possession+lost+premier+league+2023-24
3rd - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+possession+lost+premier+league+2022-23
4th - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+possession+lost+premier+league+2021-22
3rd - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+possession+lost+premier+league+2020-21
not in top 25 - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+possession+lost+premier+league+2019-20
Pogba in 15th in 2018-19 - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+possession+lost+premier+league+2018-19
Pogba not in the top 25 - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+possession+lost+premier+league+2017-18

But as I said - those numbers have to be taken with a certain grain of salt as the big chance creators are up there on a regular basis.

It's not sustainable for a top team. It's why we were the only one to go for him. And why no big offers besides Saudi have come in.

Which is what some of us have been saying for ages.

 

[NZT-One]

So its actually not exactly a "pass played up the pitch"

A progressive pass is "A completed pass that moves the ball at least 10 yards towards the opponents goal from its furthest point in the last 6 passes, or any completed pass into the penalty area. Excluding the defensive 40% of the pitch"

True but since he is a midfielder, you would expect him to pop up on a regular basis further up that "the defensive 40% of the pitch", right?

 

[NZT-One]

I don't see the issue with him in midfield because he's just a box to box player that in the past has had good output, trouble is he's just not very good at it amymore.

He has abysmal positional discipline.

He is not a box to box midfielder. He is an attacking midfielder forced to play in a deeper role. Being good to very good in the aspects of the game you would expect an AM to shine and bad to average in all the other oarts. You yourself call out his positional discipline. One of the cornerstones of a midfielder is to make sure you are at the right place at the right time.

 

[NZT-One]

Ideally yes I'd want it to be the majority opinion but I know that still wouldnt make it "right". I just think it would be healthier for our fans to appreciate our best player rather than moving from one player to the next as targets for blame. The players change but that doesn't.

Just for the record - you aren't going to help yourself with bringing stuff like that into the debate. Just accept that your standpoint is as useless as anybody elses standpoint on here. Maybe that would release some of the tension and hyperbole a bit.

 

[Berbaclass]

He is not a box to box midfielder. He is an attacking midfielder forced to play in a deeper role. Being good to very good in the aspects of the game you would expect an AM to shine and bad to average in all the other oarts. You yourself call out his positional discipline. One of the cornerstones of a midfielder is to make sure you are at the right place at the right time.

Disagree. He's always just all over the pitch and always has been, like I said he doesn't have any positional discipline whatsoever.

 

[NZT-One]

Disagree. He's always just all over the pitch and always has been, like I said he doesn't have any positional discipline whatsoever.

So being all over the pitch is what makes a midfielder a box2box midfielder for you?

 

[reddev3]

Why leave out assists which are equally important, especially for a creator?

Non-penalty goals + assists in the PL:

22/23 - 14
23/24 - 14
24/25 - 16

And this is while delivering good defensive numbers and trying to assist the likes of Højlund, Weghorst, Zirkzee and Rashford that looks dead inside.

Because like most arguments with stats about players people have a problem with, it's best to present the ones that prove my point.

That's still pretty poor for someone that has pretty much a free role in the number 10 position averaging around 3100 minutes per season. Cunha did 22 last season and 19 the season before in a lower average of around 2500 minutes while playing for a team that finished below Utd both seasons meaning he was playing with even worse players.

Mbeumo dwarfs his numbers as well but I just did Cunha as he doesn't take penalties.

 

[Ted Lasso]

I don’t think there is. I often watch games and think if there were a ‘chances or pressures created for the other team’ stat he’d score as highly as he does in our own chances created

Your team captain having that level of concentration definitely filters down through the team too.

For what its worth, fbref says that he didn't have an error in yesterdays game, that ended in a shot. Whoscored says he wasn't dispossed once but I guess, thats some fairly special definition that doesn't include passes.

Those stats will always be a little tricky to interpret since so many factors go into. Getting dispossessed can happen in multiple ways, you can misplace passes, miscontrol a ball, get tackled or lose an attempt to dribble. Roles on the pitch also play into it - if you are the sole attacking outlet of your team, you are expected to take more risks than others.

What can be said is that there numbers that do indicate, that he loses it on a regular basis
5th most for this season - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask/most-possession-lost-this-season-premier-league
2nd most for last season (ironically we brought in Nr. 1 for last season during the summer) - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask/most-possession-lost-last-season-premier-league
1st - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+possession+lost+premier+league+2023-24
3rd - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+possession+lost+premier+league+2022-23
4th - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+possession+lost+premier+league+2021-22
3rd - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+possession+lost+premier+league+2020-21
not in top 25 - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+possession+lost+premier+league+2019-20
Pogba in 15th in 2018-19 - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+possession+lost+premier+league+2018-19
Pogba not in the top 25 - https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+possession+lost+premier+league+2017-18

But as I said - those numbers have to be taken with a certain grain of salt as the big chance creators are up there on a regular basis.


Which is what some of us have been saying for ages.

That's quite the list!


Relying on my memory so keep me honest, but a lot of the concerns I remember were from watching and scouting rather than stats. So to your point, issues that aren't necessarily captured within the data set a lot of us are able to point back to.

And these last two years, especially with Bruno playing in this midfield two, the lack of concentration and mistakes are now glaringly apparent to the more casual observer like me. Definitely a "light bulb" moment.

 

[Scandi Red]

That's still pretty poor for someone that has pretty much a free role in the number 10 position averaging around 3100 minutes per season. Cunha did 22 last season and 19 the season before in a lower average of around 2500 minutes while playing for a team that finished below Utd both seasons meaning he was playing with even worse players.

You are comparing very different types of players now. Bruno has played a far deeper and more reserved role under Ten Hag and Amorim. Even when Bruno supposedly plays no.10 he consistently drops deeper than all the other midfielders and help with the build up. This is also reflected in the stats. This is from last season in the Premier League:

Spoiler: PL 2024-25

Tackles and interceptions per game:
Bruno: 3.0
Cunha: 1.7
Mbeumo: 1.7

Dispossessed and unsuccessful touches per game (lower number is better):
Bruno: 2.4
Mbeumo: 4.0
Cunha: 4.1

Number of passes per game:
Bruno: 56.1
Cunha: 28.8
Mbeumo: 28.7

Pass accuracy:
Bruno: 81.5%
Cunha: 79.3%
Mbeumo: 73.9%

Key passes per game:
Bruno: 2.5
Mbeumo: 1.8
Cunha: 1.7

Bruno is far more involved in the game, he makes fewer errors and he's much better defensively. I'm not saying that Bruno had a better season than Cunha or Mbeumo. I'm only trying to show the difference in their roles.

The fact that Bruno can do all that and still get around 15 G/A (excluding penalties) in the PL alone is what makes him gold as a player.