So his passing wasn't as bad as your drama queen post suggests then? He was decent - kept things ticking over nicely and used the ball decently. Look at media match reports, none of them are saying he was poor.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 12
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 2
Inappropriate Content
His passing was bad. His choice of passes were also terrible when he had better options. His movement was bad. He also was passing poorly, behind, bouncing panicking when he was under pressure and giving it to others who were under even more .
So drama Queen post? Or harsh reality to someone who cares more about a player than the team?
Also who reads media reports? When we can just watch the game and come to our own conclusions.
Listen I get it, you must have made a comment he was good, and seeing me point out the ways in which he wasn’t has upset you, and you feel a need to protect Bruno by trying to attack the poster instead of trying to dispute the actual points.
It’s fine when it comes to Bruno there are many that suffer from anencephalous.
Those passing stats aren’t great. I wonder how Casemiro did. Because if both our CMs are failing to complete 1 in 5 passes every match we’re never going to be a particularly good team. Obviously this shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone but it does highlight our obvious weakness. I only watched the second half but it was maddening how often moves broke down because of a misplaced pass in the centre of the park. The sort of boring, consistently accurate ball retention a team needs in central midfield just isn’t Bruno’s game.
Had a solid game today -- anyone who actually watched the full 90 know both Bruno and Cas did what was required in the midfield.
They maintained control and remained disciplined for the most part.
If his name was Adam Wharton the same people would be gushing about how excellent the performance was.
If he'd scored off that chip shot there wouldn't even be a debate about the performance. The fact he's always got that moment of sheer brilliance in him is what makes him so valuable to the team -- and those that don't see it, never will.
They maintained control and remained disciplined for the most part.
If his name was Adam Wharton the same people would be gushing about how excellent the performance was.
If he'd scored off that chip shot there wouldn't even be a debate about the performance. The fact he's always got that moment of sheer brilliance in him is what makes him so valuable to the team -- and those that don't see it, never will.
Very similar, in fact from the eye test I thought Casemiro had a poorer game out of the pair. But he does have a slightly higher pass accuracy and better defensive stats
Goals - 0
Assists - 0
**Passing - 47/58 (81%)
Dribbles - 1 (1)
Ground duals - 5..won 3
Aerial duals - 2…won 2
**Possession lost - 12 (touches 67)
Clearances - 2
Interceptions - 2
Tackles - 2
Dribbled passed - 1
Same re Casemiro. Although I only watched the second half. Maybe that was when he was worse, so it stuck in the memory. For all their flaws the two of them are clearly our best options in central midfield. Which is a bit mad but here we are.
I'm a Bruno fan and I thought he had a poor game to be honest.
I felt he gave the ball away on numerous occasions, most of them where fairly simple passes.
I felt he gave the ball away on numerous occasions, most of them where fairly simple passes.
I would expect Wharton to pass better.
He's not gonna get many matches as easy as yesterday, we need 2 better midfielders.
Both Casemiro (since joining us) and Fernandes are very low % passers for central midfielders. Especially for a big side. Two players with excellent vision and impetus to see a forward pass but at the cost of ball retention.
Casemiro’s passing accuracy since joining teeters around 77-81% per PL season. Fernandes is much lower generally, but if you limit to this and last season where he mostly plays deeper it’s around 76%.
Like many of our squad composition issues, we tend to find a problem and exacerbate it. Lots of simple fixes throughout that Amorim could tweak which would probably see him win two games on the bounce.
Since there are so many stat lovers in here, lets add his fbref stats from yesterdays game in here, all of them, not just selected ones to paint a picture
0 goals
0 assists
3 shots
1 shot on target
0 cards
62 touches (2nd most in the team after Casemiro)
(unfortunately fbref doesn't have a stat for getting dispossessed, therefor I add other numbers according to whoscored and statmuse: 0, keep in mind that they don't have to have the same definitions, for example, sofascore has him with 13 ball losses, but that might also be down to missed passes)
0.2 npxG
0.4 xAG (most in the team)
0.3 xA (most of the team)
6 shot creating actions
0 goal creating actions
54 passes attempted, 41 completed (75.9%) (Casemiro 81%, Mount 84%, Amad 97%)
(92% completed for short passes, 80% completed for medium passes, 66.7% for long passes)
8 progressive passes (most of the team)
3 key passes (shared most of the team with Amad)
27 carries
2 progressive carries
0 take ons
0 tackles recorded
4 challenges attempted (against dribblings), 0 successful
2 interceptions
1 block (a blocked pass)
3 clearances
0 errors leading to opponents shots
0 aerials attempted
So I'd say nothing standing out. Numbers are obviously influenced by the way the game played out, we went up front after not even 8 minutes and from then on were almost in full control. Low defensive numbers are mostly connected with it I guess, rather low numbers in terms of passing don't look too well considering that.
Lets wait what Statman Dave comes up with to turn that into a tweet, if it were me, I'd go with that
3 shots
62 touches
0.4 xAG (most in the team)
0.3 xA (most of the team)
6 shot creating actions
92% completed short passes
8 progressive passes (most of the team)
3 key passes (shared most of the team with Amad)
27 carries
4 challenges attempted
2 interceptions
1 block
3 clearances
magnifico & complete midfielder
Just Look at the facts how good he was
0 goals
0 assists
3 shots
1 shot on target
0 cards
62 touches (2nd most in the team after Casemiro)
(unfortunately fbref doesn't have a stat for getting dispossessed, therefor I add other numbers according to whoscored and statmuse: 0, keep in mind that they don't have to have the same definitions, for example, sofascore has him with 13 ball losses, but that might also be down to missed passes)
0.2 npxG
0.4 xAG (most in the team)
0.3 xA (most of the team)
6 shot creating actions
0 goal creating actions
54 passes attempted, 41 completed (75.9%) (Casemiro 81%, Mount 84%, Amad 97%)
(92% completed for short passes, 80% completed for medium passes, 66.7% for long passes)
8 progressive passes (most of the team)
3 key passes (shared most of the team with Amad)
27 carries
2 progressive carries
0 take ons
0 tackles recorded
4 challenges attempted (against dribblings), 0 successful
2 interceptions
1 block (a blocked pass)
3 clearances
0 errors leading to opponents shots
0 aerials attempted
So I'd say nothing standing out. Numbers are obviously influenced by the way the game played out, we went up front after not even 8 minutes and from then on were almost in full control. Low defensive numbers are mostly connected with it I guess, rather low numbers in terms of passing don't look too well considering that.
Lets wait what Statman Dave comes up with to turn that into a tweet, if it were me, I'd go with that
3 shots
62 touches
0.4 xAG (most in the team)
0.3 xA (most of the team)
6 shot creating actions
92% completed short passes
8 progressive passes (most of the team)
3 key passes (shared most of the team with Amad)
27 carries
4 challenges attempted
2 interceptions
1 block
3 clearances
magnifico & complete midfielder
Just Look at the facts how good he was
No need for the bolded, particularly when you're banging on about me attacking you as a poster (which I didn't, incidentally, I said your post was a drama queen post). I'm a united fan, not a Bruno fan (though I do like him) and I'm happy to admit when he's poor, like I did after the Brentford game. But he wasn't poor yesterday. Listen, I get it, you don't like him and it causes bias.
After almost a year watching, it's amazing people still get confuse of what Amorim wants from his CM.
If he just want a volume high-percentage passer there, he could just play Ugarte with Casemiro there and the midfield would be a lot more defensively solid.
If he just want a volume high-percentage passer there, he could just play Ugarte with Casemiro there and the midfield would be a lot more defensively solid.
He was good but not great. The 3 key passes and 8 progressive passes are outstanding. Again he's gone to the top of the table with 19 key passes, with Grealish at 17 after today's game and the most progressive passes in hte league because Anderson played today and the numbers havent been added yet. So he might go back to 2nd
Bruno had 78% pass accuracy against Sunderland thats the only thing I would ask him to improve. If he can bump it to closer to 85% whilst still delivering 3 key passes and 8 progressive passes that would be great. I don't want him overdoing defensive stuff if the match doesnt call for it. Scholes didnt so I dont see why I'd want him to.
I think with Fernandes its partly because of how much we depend on him to create. So he feels the need to take chances and play the ball in front of our players making runs. If he could depend on the #10s to create everything and he just needed 90% pass accuracy I think he would come closer to doing that job.
Our #10s are new other than Mount and in previous seasons Mount didnt come close to doing the job. Maybe over time the #10s will start to create more themselves and Bruno can concentrate on keeping the ball and just keeping it moving.
Casemiro will also play those speculative balls for Mbeumo to run after, or those first time crosses into the box which also risk losing the ball. But a bit more often he will just get a pass wrong with concentration issus. He got better with it last season but hasnt started this season as well as last.
Who’s confused? A clear observation was made. Manuel Ugarte isn’t 1. at all good at football, and 2. That much of a high percentage volume passer, anyway.
What Amorim uses is pretty much all he has at his disposal (apart from Mainoo, which is a different conversation) — but that’s mostly of his own making.
Wharton had a completion rate of 65% in his last match, and attempted half the number of passes. But sure...keep on expecting.
Outstanding indeed. Btw. Xhaka had 8 progressive passes and
*typo
So its Mounts, Cunhas and Mbeumos fault that Bruno didn't manage to surpass the 80 mark in a home game against a new promoted team where we took the lead after 8 minutes and doubled said lead after 30 minutes?
I guess that I don't understand is down to all my biases because thats what we learned today - if you don't like Bruno, thats when your biased. If you do like him, its probably only facts.
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I think the bias comments come from the fact theres people arguing and skewing any stats they can to prove their point, and not actually opening their eyes to what's going on.
Happens on both sides of the coin, but quite frankly people have drawn a line ok the sand either way about Bruno and seem unable to waiver from that entrenched viewpoint.
Yes. You think we werent very good in the second half because of some other reason than Sunderland playing well? Xhaka was at the heart of it and their best player
Regardless Xhaka had 1 key pass. Bruno had 3, more than his 2.7 per 90 mins that he has this season which is the most in the league. Most in the league and you're still complaining
Again Bruno was good, he wasnt great. Whats so hard to understand?
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I’ve been one to defend Bruno a lot recently and I felt he was showing signs towards the end of last season of becoming decent in the CM role. He started to keep things a bit more simple, he knitted our game together well, he put in a shift defensively and he had a few games where the opposition struggled to get the ball off him.
But this season I’ve been pretty frustrated by him on the whole, non more so than yesterday. I think his decision making has been poor this season, and even the passes he completes are often the wrong passes because he plays it to somebody surrounded by opposition players with no clear pass to make. He did it a few times yesterday to both Sesko and Mbeumo, and they ended up losing the ball in these situations.
He needs to really pull his head out of his backside as we actually have players around him now who can carry the load in a creative and goal scoring sense. I think he needs to almost just keep it simple to an extent and try to play himself into form. Find the right balance in what he can do and what he actually needs to do. Make better decisions and trust the players around him to do their job. I think he’ll find that by playing within himself slightly, he’ll become more effective in the role.
But this season I’ve been pretty frustrated by him on the whole, non more so than yesterday. I think his decision making has been poor this season, and even the passes he completes are often the wrong passes because he plays it to somebody surrounded by opposition players with no clear pass to make. He did it a few times yesterday to both Sesko and Mbeumo, and they ended up losing the ball in these situations.
He needs to really pull his head out of his backside as we actually have players around him now who can carry the load in a creative and goal scoring sense. I think he needs to almost just keep it simple to an extent and try to play himself into form. Find the right balance in what he can do and what he actually needs to do. Make better decisions and trust the players around him to do their job. I think he’ll find that by playing within himself slightly, he’ll become more effective in the role.
I maintain a proper club would have sold him over the summer. If he was at Real Madrid, we’d have been stupid enough to give 70m for him. However that doesn’t mean he’s shite.
I completely agree with everything you say, I just don't like that it kind of sounds as if it is only the ones that critcize him who are supposed to be biased.
Ah come on mate, no need for that. At the end of the day, not everybody values performances the same way and since it is so objective, there is no real "right way" to do it anyways. The user you responded to values key passes as highly as it gets - you seemingly don't, I don't do it as well but we shouldn't get personal with that stuff.
As you rightly pointed out in your earlier post. Seems like more and more people start to question Brunos suitability for central midfield so lets hope this continues and the questions reach the man that matters the most - Amorim.
Indykaila smoking some nice shit
Only an idiot would agree a sale when the season has just begun.
Whats the point if it dont lead to goals and wins.
should he also finish the chances he creates?
Not all "chances" are of equal value. Pretty meaningless stat.
Apparently yes. Takes some going to interpret that stat in a negative way or treat it as meaningless while obsessing over individual match pass completion rates.
We could really do with a big performance from him on Sunday…Not a chance created stat…a huge performance. One that stands up to the scousers and grabs the game by the scruff of the neck.
To date he’s had a typically poor start to the season.
To date he’s had a typically poor start to the season.
Has he had a poor start? When you look at his detailed stats on FBref vs someone like caf darling Wharton he compares pretty favourably.
He missed two penalties. Could probably had 3 more points if he isn't lose his head.
Yes he’s been awful. He’s had 1 good game.
He was poor against Arsenal, Fulham, Brentford, City and mediocre against Burnley and Sunderland. Hes not a CM to be fair but on the flip side it’s the norm for Bruno to have these runs of poor performances.
Hes also missed two big penalties that would’ve changed the perception of the season so far massively. And he’s let runners run off him for two goals and played a stupid pass in his own penalty area when he should be clearing it, leading to the corner Arsenal scored from.
Hes scored two goals, one of which was a penalty and has zero assists in 8 games.
Overall It doesn’t get much worse
This is not really debatable, is it? I know we're not doing him any favours playing him as part of a midfield two, but he has missed two crucial penalties, created 1 (!) big chance which is the same amount as Maguire and Bayindir. I am ashamed to use this statistic, but xA per 90 he is even further behind Dalot, indicating all those "chances created" are totally irrelevant. I can't think of a genuine goal scoring chance that he has created with a pass this season, but his one big chance created suggests he has done it once at least.
Defensively, he has been awful. Always out of position, unable to track runners and has completed 2 interceptions all season. I know he isn't a centre midfielder by nature, but at least try.. and if you're going to have some of the worst pass completion rate in the league among midfielders, at least create some goal scoring chances with your passes. Otherwise, what is the point? His high risk paid off before because he was dangerous. Now, he just gives the ball away without creating anything dangerous.
Just once, I hope he turns up against Liverpool. All my memories of him against the dippers have been shitshows.
He played well in the last fixture at Anfield.
Interesting perception. Nobody tried to interpret the stat in a negative way, it is a fact that not every "chance" is equally likely to result in a goal. Bruno undoubtedly creates many chances but the reason he doesn't end up with tons of assists isn't just down to bad finishing (even though that also plays into it). If those stats got dragged in here all the time, for whatever reason, probably to show how great he is, then this obviously will also get reactions that remind us that every stat comes with its own drawback. No reasonable fan would look at the number of shots made in a particular game these days when shots on goal are available as a stat as well. And even that fades in the existence of xG. It works the same with the mere number of "chances". And thats not even going into the (partly) wonky definitions some sites use to define what a "chance" is.
Literally.
maybe his best game as a CM for us.