so confidentially as well with such a bizarre analogyBruno Fernandes Out? | Staying at Man United
- Thread starter Berbaclass
- Start date
-
In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, we interview Duncan Drasdo of MUST - covering ticket prices, new stadium, INEOS and what fans should be demanding from our club.
Also, due to technical issues we couldn't put a notice up for the previous episode which was about the game against Bournemouth and other stuff. If you'd like to listen to it, click here.
- Status
so confidentially as well with such a bizarre analogyWhat’s that smell?
Going around in circles here. One could respond to this with 'you could say far closer to a championship team, depending upon who else signs' too. And then round and round we go.
The reality is that our recent history gives little indication that we'll get it right, let alone get it SO right that we'll replace and improve upon a player as vital to us as Bruno is for the money we'd receive.
While it makes sense to sell him if we get an Insane fee ( 150m + ). We have spend so much money so poorly that I have very little trust in seeing this money get spend wisely
Moreover if this deal gets done asap then suddenly we get low balled for every player we try to sell as well as getting quoted 100m for an agbonlahor regen
Moreover if this deal gets done asap then suddenly we get low balled for every player we try to sell as well as getting quoted 100m for an agbonlahor regen
Bull shit, I smell .What’s that smell?
They would rather improve their attacking options than make changes to their midfield which is the biggest strength of both teams. Neither team need a Bruno type of player. They could score a lot more goals by upgrading their forward options.
Am a big Bruno fan and dread to think how much worse (even) the last five years would have been without him.
His numbers in a shockingly bad team have been insane. Shame in many ways that he wasted his peak years with us, the one player we have that would actually get in other teams squads.
That said if he is willing to go for big money then would sell him for the following reasons;
- he is getting older in a physical and demanding league
- we have very few sellable assets for big money, at the figures quoted we should be able to get two good players
- our production is probably too heavily geared around him, when he isn’t producing we have nothing else as we are used to channelling so much through him
- he isnt an ideal fit in Amorim system, doesnt dribble enough for an Amorim #10 and not defensive enough to be a pivot
- that he is unsubbable and plays every game actually causes us & Amorim some issues with flexibility (though his availability and attitude has been fantastic)
So yeah would reluctantly sell. Would then have to keep Garna & Mainoo (getting ever more convinced Mainoo is not a pivot and should be an Amorim #10 only).
The #10 rota of Amad (who is not a WB but a #10), Garna, Mainoo, Zirkzee, Mount plus half of the fee on a new young Amorim style #10 to replace. Spend other half of fee on a WB or CB (assuming we spend on striker and gk from elsewhere).
Would still be tough to see him leave and we need to recruit players with his availability, attitude, professionalism and injury record.
His numbers in a shockingly bad team have been insane. Shame in many ways that he wasted his peak years with us, the one player we have that would actually get in other teams squads.
That said if he is willing to go for big money then would sell him for the following reasons;
- he is getting older in a physical and demanding league
- we have very few sellable assets for big money, at the figures quoted we should be able to get two good players
- our production is probably too heavily geared around him, when he isn’t producing we have nothing else as we are used to channelling so much through him
- he isnt an ideal fit in Amorim system, doesnt dribble enough for an Amorim #10 and not defensive enough to be a pivot
- that he is unsubbable and plays every game actually causes us & Amorim some issues with flexibility (though his availability and attitude has been fantastic)
So yeah would reluctantly sell. Would then have to keep Garna & Mainoo (getting ever more convinced Mainoo is not a pivot and should be an Amorim #10 only).
The #10 rota of Amad (who is not a WB but a #10), Garna, Mainoo, Zirkzee, Mount plus half of the fee on a new young Amorim style #10 to replace. Spend other half of fee on a WB or CB (assuming we spend on striker and gk from elsewhere).
Would still be tough to see him leave and we need to recruit players with his availability, attitude, professionalism and injury record.
If we sell we could end up relegated next season and im not even joking
Both teams would absolutely bite your hand off for Bruno. Villa literally went out of their way to get a similar player on loan.
Most teams in world footie would tbf. I think some will just never really like him as a player, which is odd to me but the world's a strange place.
Exactly this. He was the only reason we didn't get relegated this season and our transfer record is abysmal so we're just as likely to sign more dross and get relegated.
No way we should sell Bruno even for £200m, money can’t buy everything and he really cares about this football club which is a rare thing these days. You can’t fake it, his availability and endless running on the pitch are the biggest signs. Because of his style of play, hygiene off the pitch and injury record, he will easily play beyond 40. Imagine him as a captain in the new stadium? I would love to see it.
And let’s be honest, there is no guarantee that the money will be well spent with our terrible record as of late in the market.
And let’s be honest, there is no guarantee that the money will be well spent with our terrible record as of late in the market.
? he always cleans behind his ears ?
200 million? Come on.
It’s a bullshit rumour.
It's not even a runner. He's not retiring to Saudi at 30.
Unpopular opinion: sell high until you can!
I want to keep Bruno for a few years but not all Portuguese are capable of doing what Ronaldo has.
Giggs?
Pepe, Zlatan a few others.... But so few that is very unlikely. I hope I am wrong and you are right.
We'll only waste the money if we try to replace him so sell him and give the fans free tickets to every match for the next 3 seasons
I think i voted him as MOTM for 80% of this season's game. How can we possibly sell him? I think he has at least another 3 good years in him.
I think Bruno can replicate Modric and continue to play in his late 30ies.
We can sell him in 2-3 years and he can make his money then but we need him for now. I don't think 100m is enough to replace what he does for us.
We can sell him in 2-3 years and he can make his money then but we need him for now. I don't think 100m is enough to replace what he does for us.
For me, the most ideal scenario is to keep him for 2 more years, and then sell him to Saudi for 100M.
IF that can happen
IF that can happen
I do understand but all of this is the result of 15 years or more of terrible decision making and we're suffering as a result. There isn't a quick fix, we should have learnt that by now, the road back is going to be long and hard and yeah...some posters aren't prepared for this but next season could also be mid-table mediocrity.
Personally I don't think there's any chance we ever go down, even without Bruno. £100m + Champions League revenue + selling Rashford and Sancho could result in a massive window. That could be Cunha, Osimhen, Delap, a goalkeeper, a wingback a CM, another CB. With £170m in pure PSR profit we could basically sign an entire XI.
I would have to take it for a player who is 30+, given the size of the rebuild required.
Now don’t get me wrong as I don’t think we should sell Bruno seeing as he’s been one of the best players in Europe this season and matured into a world class player so I’m just playing devils advocate but we don’t owe anything on Bruno transfer wise any more so that would be seen as £200 million profit if a Saudi club came in with that kind of bid.
Isn’t there also a rule in Saudi that they pay all transfer fees in one payment rather than instalments ? In terms of PSR and amortising fees over 5 years that’s worth £1 billion to the club although I don’t think think the club would spend that and think it would more likely spark a £500 million transfer spree rather than £1 billion.
If selling Bruno to Saudi meant the club could buy world class additions for a keeper, a right wing back, a left wing back, a ball winner, a deep lying playmaker, a left sided 10 and a striker would you sell Bruno to Saudi for that kind of fee ? If it pushed the team to function at its best collectively much like Liverpool did with Coutinho ?
I remember a lot of people taking the piss because Liverpool had lost their best player.
But £135M reinvested in Van Dijk, Fabinho & Alisson plus a couple of others, was a watershed moment that propelled them forwards.
For 150m? It’s a no brainer really.
Absolutely. We should tell em no thanks.
I think, the chances are there for Bruno to last quite long. He is weiry and all, if he cares for himself, he can manage to play for quite some time. The thing is though, the comparison to Giggs and Modric fall short because they were surrounded by great teams. Obviously such teams can manage to balance out a player that starts to get a little slower and weaker. The thing with United is, we aren't a good team these days, with or without Bruno. If we keep him or not - we still need goal scorers, we still need to add players who help with chance creation (good chances), players who help controlling the midfield or at least not falling early victims in midfield battles. We need additions anyway and a big influx in money, when well invested, would greatly help with that.
To me, it is obvious, that, speaking in FIFA terms, two 84 players suited to a (your) system is better than one 89 player. But I can see why others come to different conclusions I guess.
(on a side note, regarding your tag line, congrats to the new position, honestly feel a little left out
)The idea isn't to replace a player like for like. I mean, we have the original Bruno right now and we still find ourselves in a position where we need to add players for scoring goals, generating high quality chances, not getting steamrolled in midfield, controlling the ball in midfield. With or without him, the need to do serious work is already there even though, obviously the weighting of priorities changes a bit if he would leave.
To me the biggest difference between us and the teams we fight for places these days isn't the quality of players - it is physicality, intensity, workrate and tactical organisation. Talent wise we might not be where we want to be comparing our players to "theirs" but it isn't as if we are lightyears away from them. If we could "exchange" Bruno, a player that delivers something on 9 out of 10 games, for 2 to 3 players that deliver something in 6-8 out of 10 games, we'd improve significantly as a team.
It wouldn't nullify that at all. It could if we'd bring in the wrong players, I agree with that, but if we add a player (or more) on a slightly younger side or from a different league there is obviously a chance that some bed-in time will be needed.
I completely agree, I think, the question really is what are you valueing more - the very next season or the next seasons. And some are placing too much weight on the current state of the team, where admittedly, it seems as if Bruno is more or less 80 to 85% of all things chance creation. But even if it were 100% it would still not result in a sufficient level for a team with our ambitions so we have to do stuff there anyways.
Based on what you have seen of our transfer capabilities and effectiveness, what is your assessment of the likelihood that we can sign 3 players of the calibre of VVD, Fab and Alisson from 120m of funds we may get from selling Bruno.
If we were offered 150m I think the club would find it very difficult to turn that down. We could make big improvements to our first team and squad with that kind of money as well as the money we'll probably get for Rashford and Antony.
Where does this idea that they would offer £100m+ come from?
So far the biggest transfer that Saudi clubs have made is the 77m they paid for Neymar who is a far bigger global star than Bruno.
I wouldn't expect a transfer fee of much more than about £70m.
So far the biggest transfer that Saudi clubs have made is the 77m they paid for Neymar who is a far bigger global star than Bruno.
I wouldn't expect a transfer fee of much more than about £70m.
It could fund Wharton and Cunha. Another €30m and we get Joan Garcia too. Wharton is the real deal, and Cunha improves us in attack. Of course, if we are going to head over to Serie A and sign 4 unproven 19 year olds from Bologna, Como, Sampdoria and Torino, then that would be a waste, but Ineos at least slightly more competent than Woodward and co. Mazraoui, de Ligt, Yoro and Heaven are all looking like great transfers, then you have others like Ugarte who are a step below but still a very good player (although a bit pricy), Zirkzee who has his ups and downs, and Dorgu who seems to have been Amorim's man and could be promising despite his slow start. It's certainly looking much better than our transfers under Woodward.
OT: In the unlikely event that Bruno were to leave us, there is "the next Bruno" in Alex Baena, a 23 year old playing for Villarreal. Top 3 for chances created last season, number 1 this season and #3 for big chances created behind Yamal and Raphinha. In the top-end percentiles for every progressive stat you could think of. Plays very similarly to Bruno, but a much better dribbler and quicker too. They even share similar injury history (in that they're never injured, Baena missed one game all his career), same body type and even looks like Bruno. He is the next superstar in the making from La Liga, excluding the obvious ones like Yamal. If we miss out on Baena, we are going to regret it, and he allegedly has a release clause of €60m.
The Coutinho comparison is so annoying. Our situations are not the same at all.
First of all, Coutinho was never as good as Bruno nor was he a leader. He had a few good years and the fell off already in his mid 20's.
Secondly, Liverpool was in a much stronger position than we are now. Klopp had been at the club for 2.5 years and he was considered a once-in-a-decade manager talent and quite possibly the best squad builder at the time. Amorim is very promising of course, but you just cannot compare the two of them. Liverpool had also finished 4th with 76 points the season prior to Coutinho's departure. And then there's the players.... Salah, Mane, Firmino, Henderson, TAA and Robertson were all present at the time Coutinho left.
Lastly, Liverpool hit the ultimate jackpot with Van Dijk and Alisson. Hindsight is 20-20. There were absolutely no guarantees that both incoming transfers would become among the best in the world in their position. You could have rolled the dice in 10 alternate timelines and Liverpool wouldn't have come out as strongly. This is an exception rather than a likely turn of events.
First of all, Coutinho was never as good as Bruno nor was he a leader. He had a few good years and the fell off already in his mid 20's.
Secondly, Liverpool was in a much stronger position than we are now. Klopp had been at the club for 2.5 years and he was considered a once-in-a-decade manager talent and quite possibly the best squad builder at the time. Amorim is very promising of course, but you just cannot compare the two of them. Liverpool had also finished 4th with 76 points the season prior to Coutinho's departure. And then there's the players.... Salah, Mane, Firmino, Henderson, TAA and Robertson were all present at the time Coutinho left.
Lastly, Liverpool hit the ultimate jackpot with Van Dijk and Alisson. Hindsight is 20-20. There were absolutely no guarantees that both incoming transfers would become among the best in the world in their position. You could have rolled the dice in 10 alternate timelines and Liverpool wouldn't have come out as strongly. This is an exception rather than a likely turn of events.
Deffo not Portuguese
If Bruno is who a lot of you think he is he would be Real Madrid’s main target this summer. PSG, Barcelona have upgraded their central options in the last year too and he wasn’t an option, at least not a serious option.
My point is players that play at such a high level will usually be poached by the better teams especially if the team is in turmoil like ours.
Suarez, Bale, Fabregas, Hazard, Coutinho, Kane were out of this league to bigger or equal European clubs. Bruno isn’t still here because of a deep sense of loyalty, he’s here because the top teams don’t believe he’s the answer.
So this tells me that while Bruno is a very good player he’s not some superstar that would break our club if he left. Teams have lost better players, cashed in and survived so why can’t we.
My point is players that play at such a high level will usually be poached by the better teams especially if the team is in turmoil like ours.
Suarez, Bale, Fabregas, Hazard, Coutinho, Kane were out of this league to bigger or equal European clubs. Bruno isn’t still here because of a deep sense of loyalty, he’s here because the top teams don’t believe he’s the answer.
So this tells me that while Bruno is a very good player he’s not some superstar that would break our club if he left. Teams have lost better players, cashed in and survived so why can’t we.
How do you know?
This is some next level Bruno-hater spin. No one came in for him, so he must be shit. I'll use this whenever no one comes in for Saka, KdB, Salah etc. They must be shit too.
- Status