Bruno Guimaraes | Ornstein: Arsenal nearing total agreement over deal

Didn't realize Bruno G was actually Newcastle's top scorer in the league last year. Woltermade really fell off the pace. I remember people were looking at him like he might have been the best new forward purchase at the start of the season when he knocked a few in. He ended up with 5 less goals than Gyok.
 
75m is the going rate in the market this summer for proven quality in EPL, even though he will be 29 soon. Norgaard was cheap but in the end Arteta didn't trust him and the money spent on him was a waste. Just hope he can stay at top level for 3 - 4 seasons.
 
GaryLifo said:
There's plenty of doubt about us being in decline. We're currently on an steady upward trajectory both on and off the pitch - wage bill reduced, back in the CL, far better league finish, some troublesome players like Garnacho and Sancho no longer at the club. What you have said is just your opinion and which is not supported by reality at all. I bet you just think we should be buying Vini Jnr and Anderson and paying whatever it takes while also hoovering up every top young player on the planet.
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Let's start football wise. We haven't won the CL since 2008 and the EPL title since 2012. Many focus on the Glazers but INEOS record in football (OGC NICE and Lausanne) is horrendous. Since they came at United they improved certain things (there's more discipline and a better environment + last year transfers weren't bad), certain things remained the same or improved slightly (inability to sell deadwood) and certain things were nothing short to moronic. For example we hired and then sacked the DOF at record time, we stuck to ETH when we should have let him go and their data driven approach led to Amorim who was the worst manager since prior Atkinson. We did end up 3rd but we had far less games which is a huge advantage (Napoli went from 10th to Serie A winners despite losing Kvara and Osimhen) and Carrick which I feel is being poorly backed this summer

Financially we had slightly improved but its a drop on the ocean when comparing to the task in hand. United hasn''t made a profit since 2018-2019, we're 1.3B in debt and since the Glazers bought us we've paid between 850m and 1b in interest repayment, 166m in dividends. OT was left to rot and its estimated that it would cost between 2b and 4b to build a new stadium. Even the staunchest of INEOS fanboys admit that this will require external investment as the money can't be borrowed through banks. The Glazers won't put their money in their pocket and INEOS are 18b in debt. Yep its a B not an M.

Meanwhile as we're busy balancing books and buying from the pound shop others are spending big. Arsenal, City, Liverpool (Barcola) and even Spurs. Yet we still need to make it to back to back CL qualification.

I hope that these people understand their limit and are shoring up the ship just enough to attract a big buyer with loads of money and real ambition cause I can't see either group having the competence, the funds and the expertise to awaken this sleeping giant.
 
Good business from Arsenal. If they somehow land Vini Jr, that's a real step up in CL quality and gets them closer to the Big Ears.

United have been treading water for a decade. It's ridiculous how much ground we've conceded to City, Liverpool, and now Arsenal.

We're still clearly the biggest club in England, for whatever that's worth, but those things are never static. Go 15 years without the league and 20 without the CL, and "biggest club" starts to sound hollower every year.

We could kick on and mount a real challenge this season, or just as easily suck, sack Carrick, and slide back into the same stagnation.
 
devilish said:
Let's start football wise. We haven't won the CL since 2008 and the EPL title since 2012. Many focus on the Glazers but INEOS record in football (OGC NICE and Lausanne) is horrendous. Since they came at United they improved certain things (there's more discipline and a better environment + last year transfers weren't bad), certain things remained the same or improved slightly (inability to sell deadwood) and certain things were nothing short to moronic. For example we hired and then sacked the DOF at record time, we stuck to ETH when we should have let him go and their data driven approach led to Amorim who was the worst manager since prior Atkinson. We did end up 3rd but we had far less games which is a huge advantage (Napoli went from 10th to Serie A winners despite losing Kvara and Osimhen) and Carrick which I feel is being poorly backed this summer

Financially we had slightly improved but its a drop on the ocean when comparing to the task in hand. United hasn''t made a profit since 2018-2019, we're 1.3B in debt and since the Glazers bought us we've paid between 850m and 1b in interest repayment, 166m in dividends. OT was left to rot and its estimated that it would cost between 2b and 4b to build a new stadium. Even the staunchest of INEOS fanboys admit that this will require external investment as the money can't be borrowed through banks. The Glazers won't put their money in their pocket and INEOS are 18b in debt. Yep its a B not an M.

Meanwhile as we're busy balancing books and buying from the pound shop others are spending big. Arsenal, City, Liverpool (Barcola) and even Spurs. Yet we still need to make it to back to back CL qualification.

I hope that these people understand their limit and are shoring up the ship just enough to attract a big buyer with loads of money and real ambition cause I can't see either group having the competence, the funds and the expertise to awaken this sleeping giant.
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But you said we are in decline - as in currently - but we aren't currently in decline either on or off the pitch. What you have listed are mostly things that are pre-Ineos. Also, don't make me laugh about Liverpool or Spurs 'spending big'. We've spent big plenty of times and it was ridiculous and unsustainable as you also have pointed out with the debt issues.

I wouldn't want us to have bought Tonali or Barcola at those kinds of prices. Fernandes was also a daft price and even dafter wages.

Liverpool have allowed their squad to go into a large decline. they spent 500 million euros last summer on players who were largely 'meh' and got close to dropping out of the top 5 after winning the league the season before.

I'd like to see us sign a couple more players to enhance the squad, but I am fine with them not being these hugely overpriced players on 300k a week as that's not where we are right now. Guimaraes is a very good signing for Arsenal due to where they are right now. I hope they do drop 150 million on Vini Jnr too and give him 500k a week. The rest of the squad's agents will be knocking on the door asking for huge rises for their players as their contracts start to come up for renewal. Lastly, City are a fake club who have a record number of financial charges currently being considered, so everything they have ever won, every player they have signed and every 'sponsorship' deal they announce is tainted. They don't even own their own stadium, so they never had to stump up for that.

I think you should have a lot more faith in Carrick and his coaches, and the current squad, to give us a very good season - they certainly did in the final 3rd of last season under the current regime. Also, all the signings from last summer were excellent and we even started unearthing cheaper talents who are good enough for the first team - Dorgu, Lammens and Heaven all signed for less than City spend on full backs every summer.
 
Changeisgood said:
It really doesn't mean as much as it used to. Money followed by success buys you more fans or audience effectively too. City, and even Chelsea have shown that. There are more new City fans than new Pool, Utd or Arsenal fans.

Not sure how loyal these fans are, but that's another issue.
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Its logical when you think how Fans become Fans.
Most growth in fans come from outside England now.

They start watching EPL and start following a team because of a player or play style (for me it was Henry). Then they become a fan of that team and learn culture history etc.
I very much doubt we had much FAN growth over last 2 decades. Now if we keep winning and also get players like Vini the fan footprint can explode.

A person born from 2000 to 2015 essentially had Arsenal from 2008 to 2023 as first exposure. We had Cesc/Ozil and played good football in patches but we didn’t win so limited chance of converting them to fans.
 
GaryLifo said:
But you said we are in decline - as in currently - but we aren't currently in decline either on or off the pitch. What you have listed are mostly things that are pre-Ineos. Also, don't make me laugh about Liverpool or Spurs 'spending big'. We've spent big plenty of times and it was ridiculous and unsustainable as you also have pointed out with the debt issues.

I wouldn't want us to have bought Tonali or Barcola at those kinds of prices. Fernandes was also a daft price and even dafter wages.

Liverpool have allowed their squad to go into a large decline. they spent 500 million euros last summer on players who were largely 'meh' and got close to dropping out of the top 5 after winning the league the season before.

I'd like to see us sign a couple more players to enhance the squad, but I am fine with them not being these hugely overpriced players on 300k a week as that's not where we are right now. Guimeres is a very good signing for Arsenal due to where they are right now. I hope they do drop 150 million on Vini Jnr too and give him 500k a week. The rest of the squad's agents will be knocking on the door asking for huge rises for their players as their contracts start to come up for renewal. Lastly, City are a fake club who have a record number of financial charges currently being considered, so everything they have ever won, every player they have signed and every 'sponsorship' deal they announce is tainted. They don't even own their own stadium, so they never had to stump up for that.

I think you should have a lot more faith in Carrick and his coaches, and the current squad, to give us a very good season - they certainly did in the final 3rd of last season under the current regime. Also, all the signings from last summer were excellent and we even started unearthing cheaper talents who are good enough for the first team - Dorgu, Lammens and Heaven all signed for less than City spend on full backs every summer.
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There's no pre or post INEOS. The changes are mostly cosmetic. What there is is a Manchester United majorly owned by the Glazer family whose got huge financial problems that runs into billions (if you include the construction of the new stadium). In such circumstances us sparing a couple of millions here and there won't make a difference.

And I thought the same thing when Alan Shearer joined Newcastle for 15m. While I rated Shearer greatly I felt that the fee was ridiculous. Nowadays you get kids for that fee. Don't take me wrong, competence help though its ironic considering that we're linking competence to Glineos (the same who tanked United, Lausanne and OGC Nice). Yet ultimately a club need to invest huge year in year out to make it on top and to stay there. We won't win the EPL title with the same budget of Everton's
 
Witchking said:
Yesterday while passing through a day care for toddlers, i heard the Haaland song and the kids were enjoying and dancing along. United are losing touch in this social media heavy climate.
Without any silverware or any world class players in the same standard of Messi/Ronaldo/Mbappe or Haaland, United will be down the pecking order in terms of relevance.
We unfortunately have been a meme club for a while now. Going to take some winning to undo that tag and bring in new, young fans who will buy United merchandise and make Glazers more rich!
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Good god, won't somebody please think of the children?
 
DannyCAFC said:
Not sure he is necessarily that much of an improvement on Zubimendi or MLS personally. Merino is a different type of tool in their arsenal (pun fully intended) given his ability to cover CF and score important goals.

Very good player Tielemans (and I think a brilliant signing for United) and agreed he'd improve the squad, but doesn't move the needle for them with where they are competing for the major trophies.

Bruno G is I legitimately world class and the type of signing that can help them get over the line in defending the title or winning the CL.
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Laughs.
He was NOT the best Newcastle player in that period. Let's be logical and honest in what we allude.
An Arsenal team which used wrestling to win PL title and offer sub 30% possession in UCL final is what Bruno will take over the line?
I think people will be surprised next season, as Liverpool were when they signed Isak who was more accomplished than Bruno G, just give it time.
By December Arsenal will be dealing with the same same problems they had last season, of playing soo poorly. Bruno G is not solving that.
 
Carrick_Ball said:
Laughs.
He was NOT the best Newcastle player in that period. Let's be logical and honest in what we allude.
An Arsenal team which used wrestling to win PL title and offer sub 30% possession in UCL final is what Bruno will take over the line?
I think people will be surprised next season, as Liverpool were when they signed Isak who was more accomplished than Bruno G, just give it time.
By December Arsenal will be dealing with the same same problems they had last season, of playing soo poorly. Bruno G is not solving that.
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Bit of a nonsence post this. What do you mean he was NOT the best Newcastle player in that period? There's a reason every Newcastle fan I see is distraught he's leaving. Everything they did ran through him.

Isak wasn't the same at all, the risk with Isak was always his fitness, not his quality, and whilst his injury was unlucky last year that was the biggest issue with him. No comparison here at all really.
 
Witchking said:
Yesterday while passing through a day care for toddlers, i heard the Haaland song and the kids were enjoying and dancing along. United are losing touch in this social media heavy climate.
Without any silverware or any world class players in the same standard of Messi/Ronaldo/Mbappe or Haaland, United will be down the pecking order in terms of relevance.
We unfortunately have been a meme club for a while now. Going to take some winning to undo that tag and bring in new, young fans who will buy United merchandise and make Glazers more rich!
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get your own patch.
 
Donaldo said:
I mentioned this in another thread. I don't believe he will complete too many games for United next season.
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At 35m he doesn’t need to though really. I also think each player is unique in play style so looking at minutes and miles on the clock is irrelevant in isolation.
 
sheva1992 said:
It’s still an absurd fee for a player who turns 29 in November. You don't see many deals like this for someone with only two years left on his contract. It's a very high price. I don't know why Chelsea is being brought into this—we're talking about Bruno, Newcastle, and Arsenal.
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Nowadays, unless it’s just a year left on a contract, two years is not going to make much of a difference. Clubs very often get fleeced for players with just a year left even.

Chelsea are getting brought into it as their signing of Rogers can act as a reference point. Just like City/Anderson and Spurs/Tonali. And as stated, Bruno represents far, far better value. £75m really isn’t that much of a shocking figure for a player of his quality.
 
ForFuchsSake said:
Nowadays, unless it’s just a year left on a contract, two years is not going to make much of a difference. Clubs very often get fleeced for players with just a year left even.

Chelsea are getting brought into it as their signing of Rogers can act as a reference point. Just like City/Anderson and Spurs/Tonali. And as stated, Bruno represents far, far better value. £75m really isn’t that much of a shocking figure for a player of his quality.
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Rogers has nothing to do with Bruno. He plays in attack, which naturally boosts his value, he's much younger, and Villa qualified for the Champions League. Completely different contexts.
 
Pity he wasn't more flexible on where he went, however don't blame him for wanting to win big two trophies. We just aren't in a position to compete for them so understand his decision.
 
sheva1992 said:
Rogers has nothing to do with Bruno. He plays in attack, which naturally boosts his value, he's much younger, and Villa qualified for the Champions League. Completely different contexts.
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You sure about that, mate?

Tonali - £100m
Rice - £105m
Enzo - £107m
Caicedo - £115m
Anderson - £116m

Only one of those five midfielders had qualified for the CL. You should know, two of them play for Chelsea.
 
Daydreamer said:
You sure about that, mate?

Tonali - £100m
Rice - £105m
Enzo - £107m
Caicedo - £115m
Anderson - £116m

Only one of those five midfielders had qualified for the CL. You should know, two of them play for Chelsea.
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What do they all have in common? They were both young and nowhere near 29 years old like Bruno Guimarães. That's the difference.
 
sheva1992 said:
What do they all have in common? They were both young and nowhere near 29 years old like Bruno Guimarães. That's the difference.
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Tonali is 26. And 33% more expensive than the 28 year old Bruno. So I'm not really sure what your point is.
 
devilish said:
There's no doubt that we are in decline but we are still way bigger than arsenal in terms of fanbase
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I think you underestimate how popular Arsenal have become in the States. My cousins travelled all over the USA during the World Cup and said Arsenal shirts were by far the most numerous club shirts they saw everywhere they went.
 
Riversider said:
I think you underestimate how popular Arsenal have become in the States. My cousins travelled all over the USA during the World Cup and said Arsenal shirts were by far the most numerous club shirts they saw everywhere they went.
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Probably helps that their nickname is "gooners".
 
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