BT Sport up for sale

[King7Eric]

I’d be amazed if this ever happened. The tv companies would love it, fans and the Premier League not so much.

2 games at 12.30, 2 at 17.30 on Saturdays. 2 at 12, 2 at 14.00 and one at 16.30 on Sundays. And one game could either be Friday, Saturday or Monday night depending on who's playing in Europe and what not. This leaves the 3 pm slot for the lower leagues. Plus all the time slots mentioned are ones where games are held anyway so not a massive change for matchgoing fans either.

For games like Newcastle Vs Southampton where it's a long travel, put that game on Sunday at 2, so plenty of time for away fans to get back home.

 

[Ludens the Red]

I'm struggling to see the issue. You protect the lower league attendances by removing PL games from the 3pm slot. It might even encourage more people to go to those games because they wouldn't be sat at home watching a PL game on a dodgy stream.

Match going fans will get used to it. I think they'll much rather prefer there are 4-5 games at 5.30pm every week than the alternative we saw last season (all games being played at different times). You could also bring forward the arbitrary 'blackout' by an hour. Lower league games at 2pm and the PL games at 4.30pm.

We're living in a world where things are getting more and more accessible by the day. If people want to watch stuff they'll find a way to do it. PL can either continue to pretend illegal streaming doesn't exist while that market gets bigger and bigger, or they can embrace change and realise accessibility is key.

Not to sound harsh but I think you’re saying this from a very Man United armchair view point.
The majority of supporters from Premier League clubs are not scrounging around every weekend for a live stream, they’re at the game. 3pm is a perfect kick off time for most fans because it allows you ample time for the rest of your weekend. There’s also away travel to consider. They asked most fans and they said they preferred the 3pm kick off.
For a lot of families going to football on a Saturday is a family event and I’m sure most would prefer not to be dragging their kids around at night.
I do think the non live blackout is outdated and you could easily get rid and show a live game at 3pm.
However you cannot stream all the PL games because it will definitely affect match going attendances. It’s alright for tv companies and the Pl in this instance as they’ll still make their money but for the majority of clubs match day revenue is critical. And there is absolutely no doubt streaming every single game will impact that.

I think you might be overstating a little how many people use illegal streams. From my experience the overwhelming majority of illegal stream users are fans of Liverpool and Man United.

2 games at 12.30, 2 at 17.30 on Saturdays. 2 at 12, 2 at 14.00 and one at 16.30 on Sundays. And one game could either be Friday, Saturday or Monday night depending on who's playing in Europe and what not. This leaves the 3 pm slot for the lower leagues. Plus all the time slots mentioned are ones where games are held anyway so not a massive change for matchgoing fans either.

For games like Newcastle Vs Southampton where it's a long travel, put that game on Sunday at 2, so plenty of time for away fans to get back home.

What I’ll say is the two most attended leagues in Europe are the Bundesliga and the Premier League. They both have simultaneous kick offs on a Saturday afternoon……
that isn’t a coincidence .

 

[Pexbo]

Not to sound harsh but I think you’re saying this from a very Man United armchair view point.
The majority of supporters from Premier League clubs are not scrounging around every weekend for a live stream, they’re at the game. 3pm is a perfect kick off time for most fans because it allows you ample time for the rest of your weekend. There’s also away travel to consider. They asked most fans and they said they preferred the 3pm kick off.
For a lot of families going to football on a Saturday is a family event and I’m sure most would prefer not to be dragging their kids around at night.
I do think the non live blackout is outdated and you could easily get rid and show a live game at 3pm.
However you cannot stream all the PL games because it will definitely affect match going attendances. It’s alright for tv companies and the Pl in this instance as they’ll still make their money but for the majority of clubs match day revenue is critical. And there is absolutely no doubt streaming every single game will impact that.

I think you might be overstating a little how many people use illegal streams. From my experience the overwhelming majority of illegal stream users are fans of Liverpool and Man United.



What I’ll say is the two most attended leagues in Europe are the Bundesliga and the Premier League. They both have simultaneous kick offs on a Saturday afternoon……
that isn’t a coincidence .

With respect that’s absolute nonsense.

 

[Samid]

With respect that’s absolute nonsense.

Don’t you know Man Utd is a multi billion dollar company thanks to the majority of fans being match going supporters!

 

[KingCavani]

Great, back to sky having a monopoly.

Hope Amazon buy the rights to the games they show.

Yeah no one fight monopolies quite like Jeff Bezos.

 

[Solius]

DAZN was class when I used it in Canada. Very cheap too.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

Would love amazon to buy all the PL and CL coverage.

 

[iHicksy]

The majority of supporters from Premier League clubs are not scrounging around every weekend for a live stream, they’re at the game.

The majority of supporters go to games? The majority? The old trafford upgrade to take our capacity to 1 billion must have passed me by.

I think you might be overstating a little how many people use illegal streams. From my experience the overwhelming majority of illegal stream users are fans of Liverpool and Man United.

What? have you canvased the internet? No idea what you're basing that on.

 

[King7Eric]

What I’ll say is the two most attended leagues in Europe are the Bundesliga and the Premier League. They both have simultaneous kick offs on a Saturday afternoon……
that isn’t a coincidence .

Just because something has been done one way for a long time doesn't mean it's the best or only way. The same arguments were made when the PL was formed and Sky got the rights to televise the games. With the internet and the global exposure the game gets, like it or not, what makes the PL attractive is the big clubs. So it's downright stupid to not let people in the UK watch those games legally while the rest of the world can. I think it's the only situation in any sport in the world, where people are deliberately barred from watching its biggest attractions on TV. As much as people like to think so, one cannot exist in a separate bubble from the rest of the world and this applies to this situation with football telecasts too. It's gonna change, sooner or later.

 

[RUCK4444]

Yeah no one fight monopolies quite like Jeff Bezos.

Wow you got a like for that. Fair play, they are giving them away nowadays these mods.

On Bezos I’d like him involved because I reckon he would make every game available and force sky to up their game. Plus he has the unlimited cash to build a brilliant product and overhaul the platforms we are stuck with now.

I just don’t want to pay £30 odd quid a month to hear Robbie Savage and Martin Keown.

 

[acnumber9]

Wow you got a like for that. Fair play, they are giving them away nowadays these mods.

On Bezos I’d like him involved because I reckon he would make every game available and force sky to up their game. Plus he has the unlimited cash to build a brilliant product and overhaul the platforms we are stuck with now.

I just don’t want to pay £30 odd quid a month to hear Robbie Savage and Martin Keown.

Amazon wouldn’t get to choose how many games are shown. The Premier League do. Do you think Sky wouldn’t want to show every game?

 

[RUCK4444]

Just monetise the 3pm kickoffs, put them up for auction separately to the current packages, available for anybody to purchase.

Then filter the money generated down the football ladder.

These clubs would absolutely snap your hands off for the cash, their teams would be more competitive and in turn their loyal fans would have even more reason to continue attending games! That’s what I’d do.

 

[RUCK4444]

Amazon wouldn’t get to choose how many games are shown. The Premier League do. Do you think Sky wouldn’t want to show every game?

Yes but with big bidders in looking for more content surely the Premier League wouldn’t be adverse to televising more games?

I mean why wouldn’t they want more games on the tv for more money?

 

[horsechoker]

Wow you got a like for that. Fair play, they are giving them away nowadays these mods.

On Bezos I’d like him involved because I reckon he would make every game available and force sky to up their game. Plus he has the unlimited cash to build a brilliant product and overhaul the platforms we are stuck with now.

I just don’t want to pay £30 odd quid a month to hear Robbie Savage and Martin Keown.

I'd love it if Bezos bought his way into the British government and changed the 3pm rule.

 

[acnumber9]

Yes but with big bidders in looking for more content surely the Premier League wouldn’t be adverse to televising more games?

I mean why wouldn’t they want more games on the tv for more money?

Saturation. Plus there’s only so much money people have.

 

[RUCK4444]

I'd love it if Bezos bought his way into the British government and changed the 3pm rule.

Now that would be the ultimate return on our Amazon Prime accounts.

 

[RUCK4444]

Saturation. Plus there’s only so much money people have.

This is true but it also takes more bidders to drive the price down, an online broadcaster I think would help drive the cost down.

Right now it's Sky for your bulk of the PL games with the caveat that if you want to watch European competitions (which anybody who purchases a sky package does) then you have to get BT Sport.

If a big hitter like Amazon came in for some of the major packages we'd see the other two offer price-friendly deals for their content I think. But on the other hand it could just put them out of business and we'd be stuck with Bezo's for everything. What do I know.

 

[acnumber9]

This is true but it also takes more bidders to drive the price down, an online broadcaster I think would help drive the cost down.

That’s never been the case before.

 

[RUCK4444]

That’s never been the case before.

It's the basis of what's required for a Dutch auction, multiple bidders.

There's too much content with too few broadcasters. Like I said PL is with Sky (vast majority of it) and European Footie is with BT... any football fan wants both by default, that guaranteed demand for each of them allows them to set the price high, higher than any country on planet earth for less content.

It could come back to how the packages are put together before the bidding stage.

Either way I think the 3pm games could and should be sold as a package, then the money could be put down the football pyramid keeping all parties happy.

 

[Dan_F]

I’m a big fan of DAZN’s pre match build up of a black screen and logo. Or the endless loop of match highlights with a shit background song.

Give me that over Jake Humphries any day of the week.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Bring back Setanta.

 

[stw2022]

Only a matter of time before a company like Amazon uses it as a gateway to their other services. Come for the football, stay for the free deliveries Possibly even as a loss-maker for them just like Sky did in the very early days


3pm ban won’t go but I can see the PL standard match time shifting to 5:25 on Saturday once a streaming service only interested in 100% of the games gets involved

 

[ColvaleGoa]

Cmon Amazon ,,buy BT

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Bring back Setanta.

Bring back the Premiership Plus!

In all seriousness what a ripoff that was. I remember I only bought one game on it. Think it was against Portsmouth or Fulham.

 

[Mb194dc]

Premier league UK rights are far too expensive for Amazon to bother with. The league are desperate to get someone in to try and ignite another bidding war. The last auction was "rigged" and just rolled over with previous numbers or would have declined 20% or even more.

DAZN should have been allowed to bid then. They're killing the "product" currently as far expensive and restrictive in what can be shown in the UK. Fans in other countries get a much better deal than the UK fans watching on TV or streaming.

Ultimately the money coming from the UK broadcast deal has probably peaked and it'll reduce significantly over the next 10 or 20 years. That is likely to be good for people paying to watch, but not the clubs. Much cheaper streaming options will eventually replace the traditional TV centred coverage we have had since 92.

 

[Ludens the Red]

With respect that’s absolute nonsense.

Don’t you know Man Utd is a multi billion dollar company thanks to the majority of fans being match going supporters!

The majority of supporters go to games? The majority? The old trafford upgrade to take our capacity to 1 billion must have passed me by.



What? have you canvased the internet? No idea what you're basing that on.

I mean I specifically quoted someone and made reference to NOT seeing it through United armchair specs. And that’s the problem, fans of the big clubs, especially United, thinking what applies to their club applies to everyone else.
There’s this uncanny knack of some of you guys where you’re incapable of seeing anything through any club that isn’t United. Even when you quote a post which makes it a point to not make that mistake.

You had a load of Premier league clubs literally telling you a few months back that they were impacted financially due to a lack of match day revenue. Notice how that wasn’t a problem for Man United. Palace, Brighton, Brentford, Southampton, etc are not as fortunate to have millions of fans vying for streams etc so yes the majority of their fans go to their home games.
These clubs do not have long waiting lists for season tickets or thousands of fans spread across the U.K. and onwards.

Just because something has been done one way for a long time doesn't mean it's the best or only way. The same arguments were made when the PL was formed and Sky got the rights to televise the games. With the internet and the global exposure the game gets, like it or not, what makes the PL attractive is the big clubs. So it's downright stupid to not let people in the UK watch those games legally while the rest of the world can. I think it's the only situation in any sport in the world, where people are deliberately barred from watching its biggest attractions on TV. As much as people like to think so, one cannot exist in a separate bubble from the rest of the world and this applies to this situation with football telecasts too. It's gonna change, sooner or later.

Again just man United specs here…..

Man one day you guys will get it through your heads that football doesn’t revolve around you being able to view every single Manchester United game live from your couch.

 

[Ramshock]

I hope whoever buys it fires Scholesy Im sick of his overly harsh treatment of the team and manager.

feck it bring Setanta back

 

[Ramshock]

I mean I specifically quoted someone and made reference to NOT seeing it through United armchair specs. And that’s the problem, fans of the big clubs, especially United, thinking what applies to their club applies to everyone else.
There’s this uncanny knack of some of you guys where you’re incapable of seeing anything through any club that isn’t United. Even when you quote a post which makes it a point to not make that mistake.

You had a load of Premier league clubs literally telling you a few months back that they were impacted financially due to a lack of match day revenue. Notice how that wasn’t a problem for Man United. Palace, Brighton, Brentford, Southampton, etc are not as fortunate to have millions of fans vying for streams etc so yes the majority of their fans go to their home games.
These clubs do not have long waiting lists for season tickets or thousands of fans spread across the U.K. and onwards.


Again just man United specs here…..

Man one day you guys will get it through your heads that football doesn’t revolve around you being able to view every single Manchester United game live from your couch.

Wtf is your problem? You are on a United forum stop complaining about United specs.

 

[King7Eric]

I mean I specifically quoted someone and made reference to NOT seeing it through United armchair specs. And that’s the problem, fans of the big clubs, especially United, thinking what applies to their club applies to everyone else.
There’s this uncanny knack of some of you guys where you’re incapable of seeing anything through any club that isn’t United. Even when you quote a post which makes it a point to not make that mistake.

You had a load of Premier league clubs literally telling you a few months back that they were impacted financially due to a lack of match day revenue. Notice how that wasn’t a problem for Man United. Palace, Brighton, Brentford, Southampton, etc are not as fortunate to have millions of fans vying for streams etc so yes the majority of their fans go to their home games.
These clubs do not have long waiting lists for season tickets or thousands of fans spread across the U.K. and onwards.


Again just man United specs here…..

Man one day you guys will get it through your heads that football doesn’t revolve around you being able to view every single Manchester United game live from your couch.

So every other sport and every other football league in the world has it wrong, except the PL? And I'm the one with blinkered specs

 

[Adam-Utd]

It'll be worth it if they replace that smug git Jake Humphrey

 

[Lash]

It'll be worth it if they replace that smug git Jake Humphrey

Get him and Jenas in the bin

 

[Adam-Utd]

Get him and Jenas in the bin

now you're talking.

 

[iHicksy]

So every other sport and every other football league in the world has it wrong, except the PL? And I'm the one with blinkered specs

Don't forget that every other country also broadcasts the premier league games, most at no extra cost as it just comes with the cheap sports package. My friend in ukraine can watch every premier league game which is included in his sports pack for £7 a month.

 

[stw2022]

Premier league UK rights are far too expensive for Amazon to bother with.

That makes no sense. Amazon aren’t getting involved in sports rights increasingly more because the last time it read an article on their value was 1984 and they assume things haven’t changed much.

Content hoarding, including sports rights, is the model for these streaming services. There’s no way one of the premier sporting attractions to a viewing audience will be seen as “too expensive to bother with”. They bought the Xmas fixtures as a trial run for future plans and as they get more experience through that and other sports they’ll make their move. They didn’t bid for PL rights because they concluded they were too expensive to bother with

 

[King7Eric]

Don't forget that every other country also broadcasts the premier league games, most at no extra cost as it just comes with the cheap sports package. My friend in ukraine can watch every premier league game which is included in his sports pack for £7 a month.

My native country is India and it's the same there, I think the actual cost is even lower there. It baffles me how some people refuse to believe that every other sport in existence has continued to survive despite the games of their biggest attractions being telecast live. Never mind other sports, even in other European countries the games are all more or less televised.

 

[Norman Brownbutter]

It was better for customers when Sky had all the games.

Even if Sky got all the football back, they now know what people will pay for it. So expect something like 100 quid a month for sports alone if they do bring it all back under one roof.

 

[Ludens the Red]

So every other sport and every other football league in the world has it wrong, except the PL? And I'm the one with blinkered specs

The premier league is thriving at the moment. It’s the most attended league in Europe with the Bundesliga. Both those leagues literally operate with a 2/3pm Saturday spot.
I’d say the current formula is working well. But yeah maybe we should spread kicks off around though and make every game live that way we can get half empty grounds like in serie a and la liga but it’s ok though cos then at least U.K. based Man United fans get to watch all United games and no longer have to whinge and whine about the injustice of Indians and Ukrainians being able to watch all United games.

 

[Mb194dc]

That makes no sense. Amazon aren’t getting involved in sports rights increasingly more because the last time it read an article on their value was 1984 and they assume things haven’t changed much.

Content hoarding, including sports rights, is the model for these streaming services. There’s no way one of the premier sporting attractions to a viewing audience will be seen as “too expensive to bother with”. They bought the Xmas fixtures as a trial run for future plans and as they get more experience through that and other sports they’ll make their move. They didn’t bid for PL rights because they concluded they were too expensive to bother with

Pretty sure Amazon didn't even pay for the Christmas rights, no one bid, so they got them free or very close to it. Amazon most probably see it as billions they can better spend on original and other content, not worth it all for them to bid for the main UK EPL packages as things stand. DAZN or similar is more viable though I doubt they'll ultimately pay anywhere near what BT did if there is another proper auction.

BT lost about £2bn from it's sports operations generally:

https://www.ft.com/content/f6d30613-af0f-4720-b1bb-c8941bca10c0

 

[Maluco]

I mean I specifically quoted someone and made reference to NOT seeing it through United armchair specs. And that’s the problem, fans of the big clubs, especially United, thinking what applies to their club applies to everyone else.
There’s this uncanny knack of some of you guys where you’re incapable of seeing anything through any club that isn’t United. Even when you quote a post which makes it a point to not make that mistake.

You had a load of Premier league clubs literally telling you a few months back that they were impacted financially due to a lack of match day revenue. Notice how that wasn’t a problem for Man United. Palace, Brighton, Brentford, Southampton, etc are not as fortunate to have millions of fans vying for streams etc so yes the majority of their fans go to their home games.
These clubs do not have long waiting lists for season tickets or thousands of fans spread across the U.K. and onwards.


Again just man United specs here…..

Man one day you guys will get it through your heads that football doesn’t revolve around you being able to view every single Manchester United game live from your couch.

I know what you are trying to say, but your statement was just a plain falsehood. There is 100% no club currently in the PL whose majority of fans are match goers. It’s not even close.

They are coming from big cities with hundreds of thousands of people and, nowadays, have supporters clubs all over the world in so many different countries (yes, even the minnows!)

The game has changed massively and the majority of fans for any club at this level being match goers is almost laughable in 2021, for any PL club.

 

[Ludens the Red]

I know what you are trying to say, but your statement was just a plain falsehood. There is 100% no club currently in the PL whose majority of fans are match goers. It’s not even close.

They are coming from big cities with hundreds of thousands of people and, nowadays, have supporters clubs all over the world in so many different countries (yes, even the minnows!)

The game has changed massively and the majority of fans for any club at this level being match goers is almost laughable in 2021, for any PL club.

As a blanket statement no, obviously that isn’t the case for the majority of clubs but when you take away the giants it really isn’t as far fetched as you think.
Watford and Burnley are towns of less than 100,000 people. They both regularly fill a 25,000 seater. I mean we can sit here and pretend that there are thousands of Burnley and Watford fans outside of Burnley and Watford but that would be completely disingenuous.

Brentford and Palace are littered in with numerous London clubs and their catchment areas are again less than 100,000 people, in Brentford’s case less than 40,000. It’s a safe bet to suggest the fans that go to games for those clubs would be in the majority seeing as how their ground is always full.
Clubs like Fulham and Bournemouth have also knocked about in the prem recently and have similar fanbases to those type of teams.

Even places like Southampton and Brighton don’t have particularly large populations. For these clubs to hit triple figures in the thousands for supporters in their city, you’d have to suggest 1 in 2 people in the city support the club.
I’m not sure that’s likely….

Quite ironic the bolded part too.