Bundesliga 19/20

HTG

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That was beautiful from the Dortmund fans.

 
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TommiHelm

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I don't understand why Favre insist on this 3 back like. They look so uncomfortable both defending, and in possession when being pressed. Their squad look so well suited for a standard 433 to.
 

do.ob

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I don't understand why Favre insist on this 3 back like. They look so uncomfortable both defending, and in possession when being pressed. Their squad look so well suited for a standard 433 to.
I think it's the opposite actually and despite the recent misfortunes the team is still doing much, much better than when they were playing 4231(ish) formations every game. Guerreiro and Hakimi aren't fullbacks, the latter might not even be a defender, playing with a back 3 and turning them into wingbacks is the right thing to do. Having three defenders for cover also enabled Favre to field Brandt in CM, which greatly improved his form and made him an integral part of the team - at least in attack.


Not particular impressed with the match thus far. I think it's a bit crude. Frankfurt offer very little going forward, but still leave too much space too often between the lines and on the wings. If Dortmund's passing was more crisp they could've carved out a good amount of opportunities, despite being fairly uninspired going forward.
 

TommiHelm

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I was thinking more of a straight 433 than a 4231 to be honest. Maybe with one of the 3 midfielders deeper. Either way, I feel like that back 3 don't look comfortable at all. Zagadou keeps pressing to soon, leaving enormous space behind him cause Hummels isn't fast enough to catch up. Zagadous positioning in general seems really bad in a back 3 to me. And in possession neither of the two central midfielders seem to be available for passes when the back 3 has the ball. Just looks chaotic.

Feel like PSG are gonna punish that space between the central midfield and back 3, and on either side of Hummels very easy. Should be a fun game to watch that.

Cool finish by Sancho.
 
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RoyH1

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I don't know what's more entertaining: seeing this young Dortmund side on the attack or Man City being banned for sugar daddying their way into relevance.
 

Oly Francis

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It was my first time watching Eintracht play for a couple of months, lord it was terrible, are they always that bad? Seems weird they're ranking 9th playing this way, do they have important players injured or something?
 

do.ob

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I was thinking more of a straight 433 than a 4231 to be honest. Maybe with one of the 3 midfielders deeper. Either way, I feel like that back 3 don't look comfortable at all. Zagadou keeps pressing to soon, leaving enormous space behind him cause Hummels isn't fast enough to catch up. Zagadous positioning in general seems really bad in a back 3 to me. And in possession neither of the two central midfielders seem to be available for passes when the back 3 has the ball. Just looks chaotic.

Feel like PSG are gonna punish that space between the central midfield and back 3, and on either side of Hummels very easy. Should be a fun game to watch that.

Cool finish by Sancho.
The thing is that the team seems to lack stability no matter what. Partly because of the players involved, partly because Favre's football just doesn't seem compatible with this squad. He said himself he thinks back four formations are superior, that every top team uses them, but he still uses a back three, because it just complements the strengths and weaknesses of his players back. Just think about Hakimi and Guerreiro, they were the motms today, in a back four you'd rob them of (some of) their attacking impact and force them to do something they aren't very good at (defending).
I think Dortmund has a chance to compete with PSG at home, but in general and especially away from home the team is just too vulnerable defensively to have a realistic chance of advancing and it seems inevitable that Mbappe and Neymar will find themselves with too much space eventually.

It was my first time watching Eintracht play for a couple of months, lord it was terrible, are they always that bad? Seems weird they're ranking 9th playing this way, do they have important players injured or something?
Eintracht rely much more on momentum than on individual quality, they have been quite hit and miss this season and today has been a miss. Playing away also seems to be an important factor for them. They have just 7 points from 11 games on the road, while they took 10 points from Bayern, Leipzig, Dortmund and Leverkusen at home.
 

TommiHelm

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The thing is that the team seems to lack stability no matter what. Partly because of the players involved, partly because Favre's football just doesn't seem compatible with this squad. He said himself he thinks back four formations are superior, that every top team uses them, but he still uses a back three, because it just complements the strengths and weaknesses of his players back. Just think about Hakimi and Guerreiro, they were the motms today, in a back four you'd rob them of (some of) their attacking impact and force them to do something they aren't very good at (defending).
I think Dortmund has a chance to compete with PSG at home, but in general and especially away from home the team is just too vulnerable defensively to have a realistic chance of advancing and it seems inevitable that Mbappe and Neymar will find themselves with too much space eventually.
You're probably right, Hakimi and Guerreiro definitely look good. I didn't realize Favre said that about a back 4, I just watch Bundesliga when ever it's available on a Norwegian channel really. Favre did look pretty agitated at times himself tonight at some of the defending, even though they kept a clean sheet. Have to say Zagadou looked much better in the 2nd half though. Don't know if he'd been told to hold his position more at half time, but he seemed to stay much closer to Hummels in the last 45. Should be two entertaining matches against PSG for sure.
 

Piratesoup

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I still have no idea how good of a coach Flick is, but watching Bayern right now shows just how shite Kovac was in Munich.
 

do.ob

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Some good and some bad news for Dortmund in the last hour:

the good:
Their main (jersey) sponsor and and shareholder Evonik will stop sponsoring their domestic games and solely be visible on the international stage (be it CL/EL or friendlies) and 1&1 (telecommunications/web services) will replace them for domestic games. Supposedly increasing Dortmund's haul to up to €40m per season, which tbh sounds too good/much to be true, but it's the numbers that reliable sources like RN claim.

the bad:
DFB has banned Dortmund's fans from attending matches in Hoffenheim for three years for abusing Dietmar Hopp, the club's sugar daddy. Unsurprisingly I strongly disagree with this move. I think stuff like that banner with his head in cross hairs was definitely way over the top, but for the rest: the simple reality is that the language from football fans is very crude all around. Now if the DFB was actively trying to change our football culture towards a more respectful version then that would be one thing, but the same insult about Hopp's mother that has brought Dortmund's fans their three match ban is basically intoned about Dortmund in every single match they play - for decades. And sure, someone can tell me there's a difference between insulting a particular person and a broader range of people, but ever since his dive in 2016 against Schalke Timo Werner has been dedicated with the same kind of abuse in stadiums around the country (including Hoffenheim, obviously), Schalke in particular to this day.
Hounding a young German international, racism, firing flares at "civilians", invading the pitch, you can do all that without incurring a ban, but go after a billionaire for making a mockery out of 50+1 and you get a collective punishment of three games.
 

Swarm

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Some good and some bad news for Dortmund in the last hour:

the good:
Their main (jersey) sponsor and and shareholder Evonik will stop sponsoring their domestic games and solely be visible on the international stage (be it CL/EL or friendlies) and 1&1 (telecommunications/web services) will replace them for domestic games. Supposedly increasing Dortmund's haul to up to €40m per season, which tbh sounds too good/much to be true, but it's the numbers that reliable sources like RN claim.
Just a few clarifications and additions. Evonik will not only be the sponsor on the jerseys for international games but for all cup competitions including CL/EL and the domestic DFB-Pokal. Additionally as you pointed out they will be advertising in international friendlies and preseason tours.
From what I have read the sponsoring of Evonik has not been reduced by much if at all. I assume it will be a lot more performance dependent (they won't be paying as much if Dortmund were not to qualify for Europe of course) but can still reach about €20m as it were before from what I gathered. Evonik's reasoning for not advertising as much domestically anymore is apparently that they deem domestic advertising potentials to be saturated (they have been Dortmunds jersey sponsor since 2008). Why they were prepared to reduce their visibility while seemingly still paying a similar price I am not entirely sure. They are however one of Dortmund biggest shareholders (holding around 9% of shares as far as I know) so they will also profit if the club does well.
1&1 seems to be supplying an additional €15-20m for the domestic sponsorship which is a big step up for Dortmund.

Now aside from the monetary aspect, what do I think of the new sponsor? Having used their product before I am not a huge fan of 1&1 so it is not right away my favorite company to be introduced as a sponsor but I don't hate them either so I guess it is fine. An additional worry that came up for a few hours among Dortmund supporters was the fact that the 1&1 logo is in blue and white (the colors of our rival Schalke of course). It was clarified early on that they would not be allowed to use those colors on our jersey which I am quite happy about. From club supplied information it seems like the logo will be in black and white which I am not too happy with either since I had hoped it would be in all black but eh, we will have to see. So far no official version of the way the logo would be implemented has been released (and which logo for that matter since 1&1 has quite a few other brands that could be displayed like Ionos or Versatel). I am quite intrigued at this point :)

the bad:
DFB has banned Dortmund's fans from attending matches in Hoffenheim for three years for abusing Dietmar Hopp, the club's sugar daddy. Unsurprisingly I strongly disagree with this move. I think stuff like that banner with his head in cross hairs was definitely way over the top, but for the rest: the simple reality is that the language from football fans is very crude all around. Now if the DFB was actively trying to change our football culture towards a more respectful version then that would be one thing, but the same insult about Hopp's mother that has brought Dortmund's fans their three match ban is basically intoned about Dortmund in every single match they play - for decades. And sure, someone can tell me there's a difference between insulting a particular person and a broader range of people, but ever since his dive in 2016 against Schalke Timo Werner has been dedicated with the same kind of abuse in stadiums around the country (including Hoffenheim, obviously), Schalke in particular to this day.
Hounding a young German international, racism, firing flares at "civilians", invading the pitch, you can do all that without incurring a ban, but go after a billionaire for making a mockery out of 50+1 and you get a collective punishment of three games.
I find it hard to assess this situation since it is always a toss up of valuing a persons right to not be insulted or threatened vs acting consistently for everyone. Generally I dislike Hopp and the way he forces Hoffenheim onto the league but I don't condone some of the hatred towards him either. In the end he is simply one of the few people that actually took others to court over these matters and I guess had he been less thin skinned in all this it would not have blown out of proportion as much as it has. On the other hand Dortmund have been on "probation" since 2018 for similar things so it is only consistent to penalize them now. Not a lot of people give a feck about matches in Hoffenheim anyways I guess but it is still a shame for those who do and especially for the majority of them that did not threaten anyone and simply wanted to support their team and maybe call the dick Hopp a dick which should be allowed in my opinion.
 

do.ob

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I find it hard to assess this situation since it is always a toss up of valuing a persons right to not be insulted or threatened vs acting consistently for everyone. Generally I dislike Hopp and the way he forces Hoffenheim onto the league but I don't condone some of the hatred towards him either. In the end he is simply one of the few people that actually took others to court over these matters and I guess had he been less thin skinned in all this it would not have blown out of proportion as much as it has. On the other hand Dortmund have been on "probation" since 2018 for similar things so it is only consistent to penalize them now. Not a lot of people give a feck about matches in Hoffenheim anyways I guess but it is still a shame for those who do and especially for the majority of them that did not threaten anyone and simply wanted to support their team and maybe call the dick Hopp a dick which should be allowed in my opinion.
Again, I think the Hasta La Vista Banners are way over the top as they cross into violence and of course it's Hopp's right to sue people. But aside from that how is it any different from the kind of treatment Werner received? Did the DFB issue as much as a fine to protect one of its biggest prospects? Even when he was showing stress reactions in the CL around that time? Somehow they even forgot about their pledge to end collective punishment for fans.