#TheKovacEffect
Bundesliga 19/20
- Thread starter do.ob
- Start date
I really like boadu. In fact there are a lot of young players from AZ I am really fond of. They must be putting something in the water in Alkmaar.
Like I said mate, I sympathize totally, there are only a few roads open to them. I think some people are just frustrated as Bundesliga had no sooner burst back to life, than was dead again.
But you’re right, it’s the expectation that needs adjusted. The league is suffering for it though, but I don’t know where the solution lies there. I think Leipzig are part of that solution, but you all hate them and clubs like them, which means that Bayern could be on top for quite some time without money from elsewhere.
Havertz looking a little lively.
No idea Wagner was managing Schalke. In unrelated news, Schalke are without a win in twelve.
No idea Wagner was managing Schalke. In unrelated news, Schalke are without a win in twelve.
I think people who say that Leipzig is the answer are missing the difference between corporate investment (RB) and gulf state sports washing. Clubs like Leipzig have very little growth potential, they blossom into a certain size (say top 4) and then they just act as a gatekeeper for the clubs below them, who might actually have bigger potential.
Putting aside the consequences of the Corona Virus: Some press articles have projected €300m turnover (these numbers usually include player sales), but let's be (very) generous and assume that they are indeed making €300m. Dortmund are closing in on €400m, Bayern on €700m. They aren't getting loads of new fans, they still don't sell out their stadium (which is medium sized for a Bundesliga club, small for a top club) consistently, not even for CL matches.
Do you see a business-man proposing to up their support to the club by €100m per year, just so they can sort of catch up (they'll still be behind on the soft factors) to Dortmund? Or €200m-€300m per year to catch up to Bayern? I don't. I reckon they will go the same route as Bayer with Leverkusen, they'll try to keep them within the top 4, go for a "sexy" and "fresh" profile, but that's it as far as reasonable investments for marketing value go.
It's candid, perhaps mean spirited from someone else's perspective. But it's a United forum and I've never had much love for other teams.
Do you not think that there is an argument to be had for lifting restrictions on investment though? Leipzig had to go about their structure in a very round about way to even be allowed to do what they are currently doing.
Maybe allowing private ownership and investment (while maintaining stricter rules than the PL about good and proper persons), is the way forward.
The league, and the interest in it, are really suffering the way things are and we could be in a position next season where all the potential challengers are lining up weaker, while Bayern will have strengthened.
It’s hard to think of a solution while upholding the integrity of the league and it’s traditions though.
But as I have just tried to point out. Corporate control does not turn teams into Bayern challengers, they just feck over normal teams. When people say they want to kill 50+1 so Bayern get challenged they basically say they are hoping that one club gets state funding.
I know this is a naive calculation, but if we took Leverkusen somehow out of the equation and go through the league table:
98/99: Lautern EL -> CL
99/00: Lautern EL -> CL
00/01: Hertha EL -> CL
01/02: Lautern #7 -> EL, Hertha EL -> CL
For Lautern winning the league and making the CL three times in a row might have given them the opportunity to build something (probably not Bayern level, but still), instead they narrowly missed out and eventually entered a downward spiral.
These days it's Gladbach who are being kept out of the CL. Probably for the second year in a row.
One reason why Bayern are so dominant is that the top 4 has always been extremely volatile, while they consistently collected the CL money. Aside from Dortmund recently (and for a while Schalke) no team could put together a string of CL finishes and build something on that financial advantage..
The league has four CL slots, Bayern take one, Dortmund another one, Leipzig - from the looks of it - will take out a subscription to for the third, leaving just one spot for clubs like Gladbach and Schalke or even some out of Frankfurt, Cologne, Stuttgart, Hamburg or Berlin to fight over with Leverkusen.
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I had all but forgotten about the first half of the season after the long break
The opening match which i attended at home in the Allianz Arena, where we drew against Hertha, was really foreshadowing for how the half season under Kovac turned out. Hertha were rather lucky to get anything out of the game, scoring twice from only six attempts, but we were so, so lacking in creativity, defensive cohesion, and team spirit. As reigning champions on opening day of the season you just expect a different reaction to falling behind at home, but we even needed a pen to reach the draw. It was a thoroughly uninspiring display.
This is a good post and makes a good argument. Perhaps other clubs may have had stability and been able to capitalize over the years if it weren’t for the likes of Bayer or Red Bull.But as I have just tried to point out. Corporate control does not turn teams into Bayern challengers, they just feck over normal teams. When people say they want to kill 50+1 so Bayern get challenged they basically say they are hoping that one club gets state funding.
I know this is a naive calculation, but if we took Leverkusen somehow out of the equation and go through the league table:
98/99: Lautern EL -> CL
99/00: Lautern EL -> CL
00/01: Hertha EL -> CL
01/02: Lautern #7 -> EL, Hertha EL -> CL
For Lautern winning the league and making the CL three times in a row might have given them the opportunity to build something (probably not Bayern level, but still), instead they narrowly missed out and eventually entered a downward spiral.
These days it's Gladbach who are being kept out of the CL. Probably for the second year in a row.
One reason why Bayern are so dominant is that the top 4 has always been extremely volatile, while they consistently collected the CL money. Aside from Dortmund recently (and for a while Schalke) no team could put together a string of CL finishes and build something on that financial advantage..
The league has four CL slots, Bayern take one, Dortmund another one, Leipzig - from the looks of it - will take out a subscription to for the third, leaving just one spot for clubs like Gladbach and Schalke or even some out of Frankfurt, Cologne, Stuttgart, Hamburg or Berlin to fight over with Leverkusen.
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Wagnerball
United‘s dominance was only really challenged though private money. Walker at Blackburn, then Chelsea, and then City. Arsenal being the only winners outside of that who did so through being a “stable” rival and even that was done through Wenger and his team being so modern and ahead of the game at that stage.
Maybe we are seeing what you’re suggesting now in the PL. In the next few years it’s wholly possible that teams like Arsenal and Spurs will suffer for trying to do things the right way.
The battle for the last CL spot between Leverkusen and Mönchengladbach will be interesting.
And the relegation battle between Mainz, Düsseldorf and Bremen of course too.....especially Mainz vs Bremen on Matchday 33
And Nürnberg in the 2.Bundesliga
in April 2019 against Bayern München and in September 2020 maybe against Türkgücü München.
And the relegation battle between Mainz, Düsseldorf and Bremen of course too.....especially Mainz vs Bremen on Matchday 33
And Nürnberg in the 2.Bundesliga
in April 2019 against Bayern München and in September 2020 maybe against Türkgücü München.I guess mean spirited may have been a poor choice of words. I guess ignorant may be more to the point. It seems you made a statement about something you care and know little about, maybe that is something that is to be expected on "a United forum". So far I had mostly made different experiences though.
To put all the blame for Bayern's current dominance on Leverkusen as a main culprit would be unfair. In the end basically every potential challenger fell behind, because they shot themselves in the foot sooner or later, while Bayern had consistently successful leadership in Hoeneß for three decades.
In the PL it might be Everton who have had their shot at being top club blocked when they were getting close to top 4 under Moyes. Or Spurs who hypothetically would have finished top 4 ten years in a row if it wasn't for City and Chelsea. But in general the situation is different in England, because the league has more TV money and bigger international exposure, meaning top 4 finishes are much less make or break than they are or were for some German clubs.
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Maybe you haven't seen it yet. You will, eventually.
I think to understand this video you have to understand German - but it is good!
This is getting worse and worse, unfortunately.
I actually don't think it is too bad usually. It helps if you don't get caught up in page long discussions with singular members with questionable discussion skills
Match Day 32 tonight and tomorrow evening
Tuesday, Jun 16 2020
17:30
Borussia M.Gladbach vs Wolfsburg
19:30
Werder Bremen vs Bayern Munich
Freiburg vs Hertha Berlin
Union Berlin vs Paderborn
Wednesday, Jun 17 2020
17:30
Eintracht Frankfurt vs Schalke 04
19:30
Borussia Dortmund vs Mainz 05
RasenBallsport Leipzig vs Fortuna Duesseldorf
Bayer Leverkusen vs FC Koln
Augsburg vs Hoffenheim
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Bayern can seal the Championship today. If Paderborn does not win the relegation to 2nd Bundesliga is sealed.
The teams that fight for relegation (Bremen, Düsseldorf and Mainz - the others seem to be out of danger even if there are still possibilities) play against rank 1 to 3
The fight for the last CL rank between Leverkusen and Gladbach is very close, too.
Tuesday, Jun 16 2020
17:30
Borussia M.Gladbach vs Wolfsburg
19:30
Werder Bremen vs Bayern Munich
Freiburg vs Hertha Berlin
Union Berlin vs Paderborn
Wednesday, Jun 17 2020
17:30
Eintracht Frankfurt vs Schalke 04
19:30
Borussia Dortmund vs Mainz 05
RasenBallsport Leipzig vs Fortuna Duesseldorf
Bayer Leverkusen vs FC Koln
Augsburg vs Hoffenheim
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bayern can seal the Championship today. If Paderborn does not win the relegation to 2nd Bundesliga is sealed.
The teams that fight for relegation (Bremen, Düsseldorf and Mainz - the others seem to be out of danger even if there are still possibilities) play against rank 1 to 3
The fight for the last CL rank between Leverkusen and Gladbach is very close, too.
Crazy stat that they could celebrate the league title only once in their own stadium since 2000 (And that was last season)......the other 13 times on the couch or away from home.
Man, i hate fecking Bittencourt so much. When did that even start? Was he at Hannover or something like that? He is such a little shit.
Werder Bremen have started well. Still expect Bayern to secure the title tonight ´.
nice red card for Davies, but hey, it's Bayern.
Not sure it was a red. Liverpool get away with 10 times worse every second game.
Clear red tbh, just a stupid thing to do.
Not really a kick in my opinion but he would have had nothing to complain about.
On the other hand it is always completely okay to kick Bittencourt.
Not having that as a red. The few quid I've got sitting on Gladbach and Bayern may cloud my assessment, though.
not a kick?
Maybe should watch another replay. I thought he missed the player with his second kick or at least didn't try to kick him.
Clearly lashed out at him. And trying to kick a player but not hitting is a red on its own.
Gnabry disappoints again. He probably can't wait to play a London club again.
„in my opinion“not a kick?
„he would have had nothing to complain about.“
Bayern have scored. They're champions if this stays as it is.
Lewandowski Ballon d'Or?
That was a goal worthy of the league title
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I mean the title is Bayern's either way, but on the other end of the table this could have severely impacted the relegation battle.
So boring that they always win. Same with Juventus in Italy.
Good news for me, but that's a proper kick in the arse for Bremen before half time. Thought they'd looked very solid up to that point.
At the end the defeat today against Bayern was predictable anyway, we need to win our last 2 games against Mainz and Cologne to have a chance.
But at the other side, it's getting boring against Bayern. This decision and the last two times in the cup games they got a penalty after a dive in two close games.
I mean, they are still better anyway and they still need these decisions..