Bundesliga 2018/19

Zehner

Full Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
1,918
Location
Germany
Supports
Bayer 04 Leverkusen
Tbh I don't remember the context about Son leaving. I left out Calhanoglu and Arp on purpose, the former because he really did a lot to force his move to Leverkusen and the latter, because afaik his expiring contract forced Hamburg's hand.
Well, the Calhanoglu transfer went pretty ugly but that's partly due to Oliver Kreuzer (you know, the manager who lost copies of player contracts in a public park) who allegedly tried to exploit Calhanoglu's naivety. There's a reason Hamburg can't retain their biggest prospects and that's their unprofessional management. Some talents were never really appreciated (like Tah), others left because the HSV couldn't provide them a promising perspective (Öztunali, Arp).
 

kaiser1

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Messages
361
Supports
Bayern Munich
Seems Hamburg to Leverkusen transfers were quite many
Son Canhaloglu, Tah while sending Papastapolous the other way
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
7,211
Location
Germany
It's not that much is it? Dortmund in particular has a similar/greater number of Transfers with Bayern, Leverkusen and Freiburg.

And not that it matters, but I think it was Knäbel who supposedly lost his backpack, so many people working for Hamburg over the years it's getting gard to keep track which feck ups belong to which.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
7,211
Location
Germany

VDV's (the union of football players) team of the season. Reus voted as POTY, Hütter as COTY, Sancho as best newcomer.
 

Abizzz

Full Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
3,541
Well, the Calhanoglu transfer went pretty ugly but that's partly due to Oliver Kreuzer (you know, the manager who lost copies of player contracts in a public park) who allegedly tried to exploit Calhanoglu's naivety. There's a reason Hamburg can't retain their biggest prospects and that's their unprofessional management. Some talents were never really appreciated (like Tah), others left because the HSV couldn't provide them a promising perspective (Öztunali, Arp).
That was not Oliver Kreuzer and Oliver Kreuzer and Calhanoglu are still on good terms (or at least they're friendly to each other whenever Hakan visits Karlsruhe, which he does regularly (Kreuzer's current employer and Hakan's first professional club)).

Which isn't to say that I don't agree with you're other assessment that Hamburg is in the position they are in because of poor management.
It's not that much is it? Dortmund in particular has a similar/greater number of Transfers with Bayern, Leverkusen and Freiburg.

And not that it matters, but I think it was Knäbel who supposedly lost his backpack, so many people working for Hamburg over the years it's getting gard to keep track which feck ups belong to which.
Yes it was Peter Knäbel.
 

kaiser1

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Messages
361
Supports
Bayern Munich
Jovic leaves Frankfurt and James will be leaving Bayern
 

Zehner

Full Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
1,918
Location
Germany
Supports
Bayer 04 Leverkusen
That was not Oliver Kreuzer and Oliver Kreuzer and Calhanoglu are still on good terms (or at least they're friendly to each other whenever Hakan visits Karlsruhe, which he does regularly (Kreuzer's current employer and Hakan's first professional club)).

Which isn't to say that I don't agree with you're other assessment that Hamburg is in the position they are in because of poor management.

Yes it was Peter Knäbel.
Well, Calhanoglu said in the Sportstudio that Kreuzer asked him to sign the new contract in order to save him from being fired and he wouldn't have done so otherwise. According to the player Kreuzer assured that he would let Calhanoglu leave if a certain sum was being offered but then tracked back from said promise.

Don't know whether they are on good terms or not but I saw that interview live and remember quite vividly because I just couldn't believe a) how naive/dumb a professional football players and his consultant/father could be and b) how unprofessional a director of sports at a club like Hamburg would act.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
7,211
Location
Germany
75% for both Jovic and Süle. :drool:
The numbers in attack are particularly surprising to me. I think Lewandowski should be close to 100%, he's clearly the best striker in Germany, it's not even remotely close. Maybe some of his colleagues don't like his antics? I think Jovic had a lot of competition for the second spot in Haller (perhaps even Kruse, Belfodil or Poulsen to lesser degrees), I would've expected it to be like Lewandowski 90% and the second guy / Jovic like 40% or something.
 

Acrobat7

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
1,343
The numbers in attack are particularly surprising to me. I think Lewandowski should be close to 100%, he's clearly the best striker in Germany, it's not even remotely close. Maybe some of his colleagues don't like his antics? I think Jovic had a lot of competition for the second spot in Haller (perhaps even Kruse, Belfodil or Poulsen to lesser degrees), I would've expected it to be like Lewandowski 90% and the second guy / Jovic like 40% or something.
Lewandowski „only“ scored 22 in 33 Bundesliga games. He is held to a higher standard, that‘s probably why he received less votes than you‘d expect.
He added 10 assists so i take 32/33 obviously.
 

Blackwidow

Full Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
6,241
Niko Kovač has given the green light for the appointment of Hansi Flick as assistant manager. Another conversation is planned between Kovač and Flick and then Salihamidžić will officialize the appointment [SportBild]

-----------------------------------

Could be Bayern's best transfer this season. But let's talk about this at the end of the season.
 

Ooge_

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 30, 2019
Messages
175
Supports
Werder
Flick as an assistant manager at Bayern is a good choice. I guess he will be the new constant in the stuff like Gerland was many years under different coaches.
 

Zehner

Full Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
1,918
Location
Germany
Supports
Bayer 04 Leverkusen
The numbers in attack are particularly surprising to me. I think Lewandowski should be close to 100%, he's clearly the best striker in Germany, it's not even remotely close. Maybe some of his colleagues don't like his antics? I think Jovic had a lot of competition for the second spot in Haller (perhaps even Kruse, Belfodil or Poulsen to lesser degrees), I would've expected it to be like Lewandowski 90% and the second guy / Jovic like 40% or something.
Generally agree, but Lewa was i deed quite wasteful this year if I remember correctly. Jovic was lethal, too, and also had an exceptional alround game. Many of his goals were real beauties, too, it is not like he scored many tap ins. If he were to play in this Bayern team I'm sure he would have rivalled Lewa's goal tallye this season. So I see where they are coming from.
 

Acrobat7

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
1,343
Generally agree, but Lewa was i deed quite wasteful this year if I remember correctly. Jovic was lethal, too, and also had an exceptional alround game. Many of his goals were real beauties, too, it is not like he scored many tap ins. If he were to play in this Bayern team I'm sure he would have rivalled Lewa's goal tallye this season. So I see where they are coming from.
The thing is, Lewandowski was highly prolific. Only this Messi guy was better:
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
7,211
Location
Germany
The thing is, Lewandowski was highly prolific. Only this Messi guy was better
I think you are misusing those stats. First of all players don't earn xG on their own, it's also a question of how well their team sets them up. Secondly Lewandowski actually underperformed his xG stats by quite a margin, I think according to understat.com he had an xG of 33 compared to 22 actually scored goals.
 

Swarm

Full Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
577
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
The thing is, Lewandowski was highly prolific. Only this Messi guy was better:
I am a bit confused by these statistics because I don't really understand where they are coming from. I checked that Infogol site and they might be getting them from opta, but I am not sure, in the tweets they are not referencing their sources. The stats shown do not match the ones I find at understat.com but I think in relation to each other the numbers are comparable.

What is important to not is that @do.ob is of course right, a high xG value does not necessarily show you are a prolific striker. It mostly means how many times you have been in a situation where you were likely to score. Now of course it can be argued that it is an important quality of a striker to put himself into these positions but the xG (or NPxG or xG/90) does not reflect that at all. It doesn't tell you, whether it was by virtue of the player having the chances or by collective team effort, that these chances were created. So simply having a high xG value does not relate to being a good striker/goal scorer. What does mark a great goal scorer is his ability to overperform what is expected of him.

The funny thing is: by this metric Lewandowski is actually by far one of the worst performing strikers out of all the top 20 goal scorers in the top four leagues. He underperfomed his xG by more than 11 (according to understat). For reference: Messi overperformed his by 10. Lewandowski was (by an inherently flawed metric) expected to score 33 goals, Messi was expected to score 26. Yet Messi did in fact score 14 more than Lewandowski did. Because he is a fantastic player. The only player that (percentagewise) failed to score even more with respect to his xG was Dzeko btw. scoring only 9 out of an expected 15.17.

In conclusion, I don't mean to knock Lewandowski here too much. I still believe he is a great striker and has been world class for a considerable time now. He just hasn't been that good this year and he has by no means been 'prolific', at least not in the way I understand the word (potentially limited grasp of the english language here). And xG is not a metric that in itself shows greatness of a player and that ranking Infogol did there is utter nonsense in my opinion.
 

SilentWitness

ShoelessWitness
Staff
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
15,718
Location
Scotland
Supports
Everton
Kenny - Everton RB - has just joined Schalke on loan, do people reckon he will start? I think he's a decent lad for a squad option right now but Coleman is obviously better as would Meunier be if we signed him (This loan move definitely highlights that we will probably sign a RB).
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
7,211
Location
Germany
Caligiuri has been one of Schalke's best players I think, but if they use a back 4 he might be moved into midfield.
 

Kasper

Full Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
2,412
Supports
Hansa Rostock / Bradford City
Kenny - Everton RB - has just joined Schalke on loan, do people reckon he will start? I think he's a decent lad for a squad option right now but Coleman is obviously better as would Meunier be if we signed him (This loan move definitely highlights that we will probably sign a RB).
Depends on how they're planning to play. If its a 3 or 5 at the back system, pretty sure they will play Caligiuri (who's more of a winger) wide.
If they're planning to play with 4 at the back, I think he would start and Caligiuri would move ahead to the winger position.
 

Swarm

Full Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
577
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
Caligiuri has been one of Schalke's best players I think, but if they use a back 4 he might be moved into midfield.
He has mostly been playing in midfield already last season hasn't he?
 

lukepowell1988

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
73
I read somewhere that James has asked Munich not to sign him?

Not being funny but I can't see many other top clubs wanting him.
 

Acrobat7

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
1,343
I read somewhere that James has asked Munich not to sign him?

Not being funny but I can't see many other top clubs wanting him.
Munich already communicated that he is going back to Real. They (Bayern) didn’t trigger his €42m clause.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
7,211
Location
Germany
I read somewhere that James has asked Munich not to sign him?

Not being funny but I can't see many other top clubs wanting him.
He just seems to have a terrible relationship with Kovac. Doesn't make a lot of sense to pay €40m (and god knows what kind of wages) if coach and player don't get on.
 

lukepowell1988

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
73
He just seems to have a terrible relationship with Kovac. Doesn't make a lot of sense to pay €40m (and god knows what kind of wages) if coach and player don't get on.
But the strange thing is Zidane doesn't appear to be a fan too.

Where do you reckon he might end up?
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
7,211
Location
Germany
I have no idea. I've read some rumours about Napoli, but I don't know how trustworthy they are.
 

Acrobat7

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
1,343
I have no idea. I've read some rumours about Napoli, but I don't know how trustworthy they are.
Yeah, Napoli is the obvious (and maybe lazy?) Ancelotti-connection. It makes sense if they can afford €14m gross p.a. or whatever he‘s making.
 

Blackwidow

Full Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
6,241
Someone will pick him, in times like these a player with the second most followers on Instagram, Snapchat and Twitter is hot shit :D
my money is on Juve.
Just that I do not think that will be as helpful as that sounds for a new club. As a person for his own individual marketing I would say he is that "hot shit" - but if you compare the numbers to the "standard Real player" you see that a lot of the followers are original Real fans. The number of fans that are not club-related is still high because of being Columbian, a good looking Latino, a technican, the World Cup 2014 etc. - but not as high and of value for the new club as the numbers suggest. The Bayern or Real fans that have bought kits with his name on the back will usually not buy kits from his next club...
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
7,211
Location
Germany
Neuer, Kehrer, Gündogan, Draxler, Goretzka, Sane

Six former Schalke players on the pitch for Germany tonight, all of them playing for league winners. Yet the club was relieved not to face Union Berlin in the relegation playoff this season, gave up its search for a DoF, struggles to sign Benito Raman from Düsseldorf and a couple of Huddersfield players.
That's some achievement. Watch them vote in Tönnies again at the end of the month though.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
7,211
Location
Germany
So uhm...
Bild report that Dortmund are about to buy Hummels. According to them Dortmund already contacted Bayern, who informed Kovac about a possible transfer, who gave his okay. Supposed fee is €15-20m + boni. :nervous:
 

Borussin

Full Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
258
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
So uhm...
Bild report that Dortmund are about to buy Hummels. According to them Dortmund already contacted Bayern, who informed Kovac about a possible transfer, who gave his okay. Supposed fee is €15-20m + boni. :nervous:
that's a deal that would go down rather badly with both fanbases :D

I really don't know what to feel about that. As a player he still has it, and Dortmund could do with a far better option than Omer Toprak as the experienced guy in the defence! He was a legend for Dortmund for a long time, but left in a bad way for the fans.

The fee though if true is very cheap, he is still a classy defender.

But I will believe it when I see it. I am not sure Mats would come back.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
7,211
Location
Germany
Kicker picking up the Bild report.

https://www.kicker.de/751409/artikel/rueckkehr-zum-bvb-doch-was-will-hummels#omsmtwkicker

Not really committing or adding anything further, but they say that Dortmund have been thinking about signing an experienced CB for weeks, that they were looking at Hummels in particular and that even though it used to be a hopeless pursuit now things could change if Bayern give the okay.

I reckon them releasing something so quickly at this hour means that there is a lot of substance to Bild's reports. If it was bullshit or wild exaggerations from Bild they wouldn't bother until business hours.
 

Blackwidow

Full Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
6,241
Not just kicker. Now Sky confirms they have the same info. That just the contract is not signed yet.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
7,211
Location
Germany
that's a deal that would go down rather badly with both fanbases :D

I really don't know what to feel about that. As a player he still has it, and Dortmund could do with a far better option than Omer Toprak as the experienced guy in the defence! He was a legend for Dortmund for a long time, but left in a bad way for the fans.

The fee though if true is very cheap, he is still a classy defender.

But I will believe it when I see it. I am not sure Mats would come back.
Toprak? I think he's gone either way. If Hummels returns to Dortmund it will be because he wants to be an undisputed starter, so that will mean one of Diallo, Akanji, Zagadou leaving (in that order imho). I don't think Dortmund needs Hummels to come in second. If he plays well and they win the league or cup then Zorc/Watzke will be praised as geniuses, but if not they will have burned a fair amount of money and a good prospect on a lost bet. It's a sizeable bet with probably less than even odds.
 

CookieMonster

Full Member
Joined
May 25, 2015
Messages
151
Supports
FC Bayern München
As a Bayern fan I gotta say I'm okay with Hummels going back to Dortmund. He has played well but Bayern's obviously committed to a big squad overhaul and no one needs a repeat of the drama with Boateng after Bayern were stupid enough not to agree to his transfer to PSG.
In addition to that one of the most promising players from the FCB youth team (Mai https://www.transfermarkt.de/lars-lukas-mai/profil/spieler/345780) is a CB.
 

Ooge_

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 30, 2019
Messages
175
Supports
Werder
Kovac is not a fan of Hummels, Bayern bought Hernandez and Pavard. I guess, Bayern will also buy Kabak from Stuttgart. Alaba/Davies, Hernandez/Kabak, Süle/Pavard, Kimmich/(Pavard). Good Deal for all Parties (BVB, Bayern, Hummels).
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
7,211
Location
Germany
Even DPA (German press agency) have become active in the matter, they quote Zorc with "at the moment I don't want to comment on these rumours", while sources close to Bayern have apparently confirmed such deliberations.

I think this is basically done dealio.
 

Sphaero

Struggling to explain his genius to the hoi polloi
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
4,392
Location
Potsdam, Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
Toprak? I think he's gone either way. If Hummels returns to Dortmund it will be because he wants to be an undisputed starter, so that will mean one of Diallo, Akanji, Zagadou leaving (in that order imho). I don't think Dortmund needs Hummels to come in second. If he plays well and they win the league or cup then Zorc/Watzke will be praised as geniuses, but if not they will have burned a fair amount of money and a good prospect on a lost bet. It's a sizeable bet with probably less than even odds.
I think it is plain to see that the lost title race last season stung a lot for Dortmunds offiicials. They might not have expected the chance last season but bottling it in that fashion was frustrating nonetheless. I did not think getting Hummels back was realistic but if he is gettable his signing is in line with the more agressive approach that Dortmund has taken.

I believe that the incentive to attack Bayern was always planned for Favres second season, which is historically always his best one, and Hummels would be a clear upgrade to anything we have in defense if he holds his current form, which is the most impressive one in several years. He would also adress several weak spots of the current defense, especially the organisation in open play and set pieces (he has always been a natural organiser and defensive leader) and weaknesses in the air (he is still an absolute beast in this regard).

Him coming back would also signal the end of Diallos short spell with us as he has been linked with Paris for a while now and I don´t see us selling Akanji unless someone offers really stupid money for him. Infact I think that the development of Akanji, Zagadou and Balerdi plays a role here. They could learn a huge deal from a defender as skilled and experienced as Hummels and we have seen with Sanchos development how much of a positive impact the right mentor figure (Reus) can have.

Now on an emotional level I´m pretty torn here. On one hand I view him as a fraud and talker, who profiled himself as Mr. Borussia for years only to make the one move in a pretty pathetic fashion that would enrage the support the most. On the other hand stand his many years of dedicated service to the club eventhough he had lucrative offers for years and I can´t help but feel a begrudging respect for his move back as even if he would have been sorted out at Bayern, he would have more lucrative and comfortable options than facing angry fans in the task of earning back respect from them. I would certainly not doubt his motivation to play for us as the only reason I can see him retuning would be the mission to prove Bayern wrong once again.

Funnily enough, the party I would understand the least in this transfer would be Bayern. I understand their desire to have a squad overhaul, but apart of Süle their situation in the defense is a bit uncertain in this case. Hernandez is a quality defender but has to come back from a serious injury and while Pavard is extremely talented, his last season was pretty mediocre. Selling your best performing defender of the last season half does pose certain risks. In difference to Boateng, Hummels is in terms of profile also a defender who should age better. He is not defined by his athleticism but rather his anticipation, football intelligence and passing abilites, traits that usually don´t decrease much with time. Barring injuries, Hummels could be good example of a defender playing on a high level into his mid 30ies. Maybe they have something in store we don´t know about right now.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
7,211
Location
Germany
I think it is plain to see that the lost title race last season stung a lot for Dortmunds offiicials. They might not have expected the chance last season but bottling it in that fashion was frustrating nonetheless. I did not think getting Hummels back was realistic but if he is gettable his signing is in line with the more agressive approach that Dortmund has taken.

I believe that the incentive to attack Bayern was always planned for Favres second season, which is historically always his best one, and Hummels would be a clear upgrade to anything we have in defense if he holds his current form, which is the most impressive one in several years. He would also adress several weak spots of the current defense, especially the organisation in open play and set pieces (he has always been a natural organiser and defensive leader) and weaknesses in the air (he is still an absolute beast in this regard).

Him coming back would also signal the end of Diallos short spell with us as he has been linked with Paris for a while now and I don´t see us selling Akanji unless someone offers really stupid money for him. Infact I think that the development of Akanji, Zagadou and Balerdi plays a role here. They could learn a huge deal from a defender as skilled and experienced as Hummels and we have seen with Sanchos development how much of a positive impact the right mentor figure (Reus) can have.

Now on an emotional level I´m pretty torn here. On one hand I view him as a fraud and talker, who profiled himself as Mr. Borussia for years only to make the one move in a pretty pathetic fashion that would enrage the support the most. On the other hand stand his many years of dedicated service to the club eventhough he had lucrative offers for years and I can´t help but feel a begrudging respect for his move back as even if he would have been sorted out at Bayern, he would have more lucrative and comfortable options than facing angry fans in the task of earning back respect from them. I would certainly not doubt his motivation to play for us as the only reason I can see him retuning would be the mission to prove Bayern wrong once again.

Funnily enough, the party I would understand the least in this transfer would be Bayern. I understand their desire to have a squad overhaul, but apart of Süle their situation in the defense is a bit uncertain in this case. Hernandez is a quality defender but has to come back from a serious injury and while Pavard is extremely talented, his last season was pretty mediocre. Selling your best performing defender of the last season half does pose certain risks. In difference to Boateng, Hummels is in terms of profile also a defender who should age better. He is not defined by his athleticism but rather his anticipation, football intelligence and passing abilites, traits that usually don´t decrease much with time. Barring injuries, Hummels could be good example of a defender playing on a high level into his mid 30ies. Maybe they have something in store we don´t know about right now.
I fully agree with you apart from the first paragraph. Dortmund's management has always been (sometimes frustratingly) careful with their finances, I don't think they would make huge investments out of emotions.

Bayern's side suprises me as well. There is of course their own sporting side, which takes a mild risk, but if this actually works out for Dortmund and Hummels plays his role in beating Bayern Hoeneß and Rummenigge would take yet another huge public hit.
Dortmund probably won't pay them a super generous fee either. To me it seems more prudent to tell Hummels that he can either move abroad or take his chances with Kovac.