Callum Hudson-Odoi

[yumtum]

I can be sexting someone for weeks, be really up for having sex with them and then go to their place but decide I don't want to or feel like it and be raped. Lots of people who are in consensual relationships with people can still be raped by that consensual partner (in a non consensual incident). Your post reads really poorly tbf on the woman in this situation.

Obviously we have to wait and see what the police investigation finds (A reason I hate these stories becoming public before things are looked at properly) but let's not make posts which appear to be blaming.

I did say that I find it hard to believe, not outright impossible, I didnt really want to post about it until I saw some posters calling CHO a "naughty boy" etc I was sexually abused as a kid and I have been accused of rape by a once, it really isnt a nice position to be in either way - I was just commenting that it's extremely difficult to prove guilt or innocence.

If there are DM's of a sexual nature, it'll certainly go against her (sometimes wrongly as @IrishGlen ) but it certainly helped me.

@ValenciasDrilledCrosses I wholeheartedly agree that consensual sex can turn into non-consensual sex, but having as much evidence as you can saying otherwise will undoubtedly help your case (why I mentioned having as much surveillance as possible).

At the end of the day I just said rape is generally a hard crime to prove, and I stand by that statement.

 

[Pass and Move]

Not true at all mate.

Nudes, flirtatious messages, visiting his home, etc wouldn’t prove it was consensual. She could have been midway through a sexual act and still be raped e.g. the least vulgar example being the removal of a condom.

Things like being in a relationship / married, not putting up a struggle or resisting, a promiscuous history, wearing revealing clothing, flirting, etc do not make rape consensual sex.

He doesn't need to prove that it was consensual. She needs to prove it wasn't.

 

[cyberman]

If she called an ambulance then there probably is some physical evidence.

 

[IrishGlen]

@yumtum

I’m sorry that you’ve been through something like that. It takes a lot of strength to admit it mate.

Re the DMs - it may show that she decided to visit to have sex. She may admit this and the prosecution would concede it however that doesn’t mean a rape has not occurred in the flat. She may have changed her mind or acts may have been carried out that superseded her original consent. Consent needs to be present at time of penetration continuing through to time of withdrawal.

All serious criminal offences are hard to prove - it’s the essence of the criminal burden of proof however near impossible it is not especially because of some prior flirtation, pictures.

 

[IrishGlen]

He doesn't need to prove that it was consensual. She needs to prove it wasn't.

I get where you’re coming from but the prosecution would est. the Actus (the physical part of the crime - intercourse without consent) and then the defence would most likely raise a honest belief in consent defence to counter the Men’s (mental element).It would be then that the defence attempted to prove the flirty messages, pictures, other factors gave a honest belief that consent was present. That would be something an accused would need to prove not the prosecution.

 

[yumtum]

@yumtum

I’m sorry that you’ve been through something like that. It takes a lot of strength to admit it mate.

Re the DMs - it may show that she decided to visit to have sex. She may admit this and the prosecution would concede it however that doesn’t mean a rape has not occurred in the flat. She may have changed her mind or acts may have been carried out that superseded her original consent. Consent needs to be present at time of penetration continuing through to time of withdrawal.

All serious criminal offences are hard to prove - it’s the essence of the criminal burden of proof however near impossible it is not especially because of some prior flirtation, pictures.

Thanks, I've dealt with my issues but it's hard not to get emotional when cases like this come up, as you can imagine it leads me to feel a little sorry for the guy but I know theres still the chance he actually done it, which again, makes me feel like crap for having felt sorry for him in the first place - it's why I try to stay out, couldn't help it when I seen some of the comments.

I agree with you completely bt the way - but if you have a complete lack of evidence of any rape took place then you can't prosecute someone (which is sickening if rape actually took place).

I'm not suggesting she went there and absolutely didnt end up saying no, she may well have, but if this goes to court then a jury will be exposed to all these messages (there may not be any sexual messages anyway) then how are they going to convict the accused with no evidence against him?

If he has done it then I hope they are able to prove it, rape cases don't get enough convictions and no doubt loads of rapists get away free.

 

[Mb194dc]

One for due process.

Wait to see if charged first, then if he is, up to a jury who will get to see all the evidence.

CHO shouldn't be judged before that.

Though no doubt will be...

Lots of other high profile cases recently, Neymar, Ronaldo, Ched Evans to name a few.

Innocent until proven guilty and let the justice system do it's job.

 

[Moiraine]

I just don’t trust this one iotas, no guarantees even if the drug is found in girls system whether she took it herself or was slipped. Remember it’s millionair footballers we are talking about and some girls could do anything to get their payday.

 

[antihenry]

Even if he didn't do what he's being accused of, it's still idiotic. Hopefully it was anything serious, but we'll know soon enough.

Then again, I remember myself being 19. If I had CHO's money and fame, would I be making better decisions? Probably not. Imagine having that kind of cash at that age and being able to invite hot models to your place to have a good time. This is the stuff most guys his age can only dream of. Not trying to justify his behaviour but most people are quite horny and immature at 19. If you're young single footballer stuck in your home for weeks and got too much time and money on your hands, you're probably bound to do something stupid.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Even if he didn't do what he's being accused of, it's still idiotic. Hopefully it was anything serious, but we'll know soon enough.

Then again, I remember myself being 19. If I had CHO's money and fame, would I be making better decisions? Probably not. Imagine having that kind of cash at that age and being able to invite hot models to your place to have a good time. This is the stuff most guys his age can only dream of. Not trying to justify his behaviour but most people are quite horny and immature at 19. If you're young single footballer stuck in your home for weeks and got too much time and money on your hands, you're probably bound to do something stupid.

You're not bound to. There's tons of other wealthy 19yo out there who are not fecking up. His problem isn't being young and wealthy and bored, it's being a person who consciously decided to do something he knew was against the rules (whether it was just breaking the social distancing rules, or worse).

 

[Jippy]

I just don’t trust this one iotas, no guarantees even if the drug is found in girls system whether she took it herself or was slipped. Remember it’s millionair footballers we are talking about and some girls could do anything to get their payday.

'Remember it's millionaire footballers we are talking about' can cut both ways- privileged, egotistical young men who are not used to people saying no them.

He’s a naughty boy either way. Just to hugely different degrees

Well yeah, just by orders of vastly different magnitudes of course.

 

[IrishGlen]

Thanks, I've dealt with my issues but it's hard not to get emotional when cases like this come up, as you can imagine it leads me to feel a little sorry for the guy but I know theres still the chance he actually done it, which again, makes me feel like crap for having felt sorry for him in the first place - it's why I try to stay out, couldn't help it when I seen some of the comments.

I agree with you completely bt the way - but if you have a complete lack of evidence of any rape took place then you can't prosecute someone (which is sickening if rape actually took place).

I'm not suggesting she went there and absolutely didnt end up saying no, she may well have, but if this goes to court then a jury will be exposed to all these messages (there may not be any sexual messages anyway) then how are they going to convict the accused with no evidence against him?

If he has done it then I hope they are able to prove it, rape cases don't get enough convictions and no doubt loads of rapists get away free.

Of course mate. You’ve been through something like this. I fully understand how you’d get emotional.

If there’s no evidence against any accused then he or she won’t be convicted. No question about that. There’s a lot of evidence that we won’t know about and some of it will strengthen the defence and some of it the prosecution.

I just feel regarding rape there’s a lot of untruths out there. We as society have got to a point where some of them have been stamped out however some remain. If a person was the victim to such crime but felt it was their fault or didn’t want to ever report it because of what they wore, the fact they flirted, went to his or hers, etc then that would be an incredible injustice.

 

[Iosif]

By something stupid you mean rape?

He deserves a fair investigation but this is a very serious, horrible allegation and not an immature mistake.

A lot of posts over the past few pages have been horrific.

 

[antihenry]

By something stupid you mean rape?

He deserves a fair investigation but this is a very serious, horrible allegation and not an immature mistake.

A lot of posts over the past few pages have been horrific.

By 'something stupid' I mean breaking lockdown rules and inviting someone over to your home.

As for what actually happened afterwards, nobody knows apart from the two people involved. Until we know the facts, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.

 

[yumtum]

Of course mate. You’ve been through something like this. I fully understand how you’d get emotional.

If there’s no evidence against any accused then he or she won’t be convicted. No question about that. There’s a lot of evidence that we won’t know about and some of it will strengthen the defence and some of it the prosecution.

I just feel regarding rape there’s a lot of untruths out there. We as society have got to a point where some of them have been stamped out however some remain. If a person was the victim to such crime but felt it was their fault or didn’t want to ever report it because of what they wore, the fact they flirted, went to his or hers, etc then that would be an incredible injustice.

Now this is what we really should stamp out, I think on the whole we agree with each other.

I dont think I'm putting my message across clearly enough to be honest, can someone be raped even if they send saucy texts, pics to another person, break lockdown rules and go over to their house etc? Absolutely! People should generally be more careful what they do these days due to the very really dangers of the above.

It's a sensitive subject because at that point it really is a case of he said she said, the only way you'd get justice for all rape victims is if you had to prove consent, but then you'll put innocent people behind bars.

Maybe it's time for everyone to start carrying consent forms on dates, to clubs and wear body cameras and cameras in bedrooms to be mandatory.

 

[Snow]

Now this is what we really should stamp out, I think on the whole we agree with each other.

I dont think I'm putting my message across clearly enough to be honest, can someone be raped even if they send saucy texts, pics to another person, break lockdown rules and go over to their house etc? Absolutely! People should generally be more careful what they do these days due to the very really dangers of the above.

It's a sensitive subject because at that point it really is a case of he said she said, the only way you'd get justice for all rape victims is if you had to prove consent, but then you'll put innocent people behind bars.

Maybe it's time for everyone to start carrying consent forms on dates, to clubs and wear body cameras and cameras in bedrooms to be mandatory.

No, just don't force someone to do something they don't want.

 

[yumtum]

No, just don't force someone to do something they don't want.

Genius, why hasn't anyone else thought of that? Let's call a world conference, sit everyone down and tell everyone to be nice and not to be bad people anymore.

Better yet, if everyone never lied then it would be easy to convict bad people.

 

[Rish Sawhney]

I can be sexting someone for weeks, be really up for having sex with them and then go to their place but decide I don't want to or feel like it and be raped. Lots of people who are in consensual relationships with people can still be raped by that consensual partner (in a non consensual incident). Your post reads really poorly tbf on the woman in this situation.

Obviously we have to wait and see what the police investigation finds (A reason I hate these stories becoming public before things are looked at properly) but let's not make posts which appear to be blaming.

While I agree with you that consent can be withdrawn at any time, I’m not sure how you can even try to parse that from a legal POV since literally anything short of video evidence of the act would be a “he said, she said” situation. And even with video evidence I can see it being dubious.

 

[TheReligion]

Just seen this. So Emergency Services attended the address to reports of an unwell woman and on arrival she's disclosed she's been raped.

He's been bailed until mid June likely for the results of forensic evidence and other parts of the investigation which are difficult to do whilst someone is in custody. Maybe analysing their phones and toxicology (if there's a suggestion a substance was administered etc). The matter will also need to be reviewed by the CPS.

A plausible set of circumstances would be she's come to see him and they've drank any maybe dabbled with controlled substances. Intercorse has taken place, she's fallen ill and an ambulance called. At that point the allegation made.

Whatever the outcome of the investigation this looks awfully unprofessional by CHO. The medical issue seems to suggest they haven't just been sat watching a film and drinking Evian at 3am.

 

[sglowrider]

Just seen this. So Emergency Services attended the address to reports of an unwell woman and on arrival she's disclosed she's been raped.

He's been bailed until mid June likely for the results of forensic evidence and other parts of the investigation which are difficult to do whilst someone is in custody. Maybe analysing their phones and toxicology (if there's a suggestion a substance was administered etc). The matter will also need to be reviewed by the CPS.

A plausible set of circumstances would be she's come to see him and they've drank any maybe dabbled with controlled substances. Intercorse has taken place, she's fallen ill and an ambulance called. At that point the allegation made.

Whatever the outcome of the investigation this looks awfully unprofessional by CHO. The medical issue seems to suggest they haven't just been sat watching a film and drinking Evian at 3am.

Or after coming over to his place she found out that he had the virus and wanted to leave. But he thought otherwise.

 

[tenpoless]

How did He even get into contact with her during lockdown?

 

[Tarrou]

He's only got himself to blame on the premise of the lockdown being breached. The rape allegations are always a difficult situation, it's very easy for women to shout those words especially when it's in concordance to a multimillionaire sports professional. I don't see why famous individuals have people they don't know sign certain disclosures before entertaining their company. This way all legal formalities are out the window and it gives an understanding for all parties involved. We will have to wait until an investigation is carried out.

Is it really very easy? Rape is one of the most underreported crimes for a reason

 

[pacifictheme]

He's only got himself to blame on the premise of the lockdown being breached. The rape allegations are always a difficult situation, it's very easy for women to shout those words especially when it's in concordance to a multimillionaire sports professional. I don't see why famous individuals have people they don't know sign certain disclosures before entertaining their company. This way all legal formalities are out the window and it gives an understanding for all parties involved. We will have to wait until an investigation is carried out.

In what way is it easy for someone to accuse someone else of rape?

Actually reading your whole post, what the absolute feck. "sign this so you can't accuse me of rape". The ramblings of a lunatic

 

[cyberman]

Going by this thread you would think rape was impossible to prosecute

 

[Pep's Suit]

Most of these players have mental maturity of 14 years olds.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

He's only got himself to blame on the premise of the lockdown being breached. The rape allegations are always a difficult situation, it's very easy for women to shout those words especially when it's in concordance to a multimillionaire sports professional. I don't see why famous individuals have people they don't know sign certain disclosures before entertaining their company. This way all legal formalities are out the window and it gives an understanding for all parties involved. We will have to wait until an investigation is carried out.

It's not "easy for women to shout those words". Your disclosure form idea is stupid.

Yes absolutely, I'm not too sure about those stats but only around 5% of rape cases in London end up being convictions. The problem is rape is easy to define but the relativity of what is deemed consent in many cases is the most difficult as it's very subjective.

I'm not accusing either party of anything as there's no full investigation, but if you follow the trajectory unless there's one dimensional evidence I doubt this will impede the player through a judicial process. Going by reports if they are credible it's hardly any indifferent to the situation with Neymar on the surface.

That has nothing to do with what you said.

You should probably stop posting on this subject.

 

[passing-wind]

In what way is it easy for someone to accuse someone else of rape?

Actually reading your whole post, what the absolute feck. "sign this so you can't accuse me of rape". The ramblings of a lunatic

The lunatic here is you, a non disclosure agreement has nothing to do with rape it's a means of contrasting what's consented which celebrities condone to protect themselves from defamation. If the person at the recipient end of signing is unhappy with the document they can disregard the individual all together (common sense).

I've lived in London previously and have worked privately there for years and I know many areas in wealthier districts where the report for rape is high. I've run campaigns for businesses in surrounding areas like Kent and have heard it's the same (officially from police) in most communal areas. The legitimacy of authenticating these cases is difficult especially with privacy laws restricting investigations. Most cases are withdrawn when in the process of court proceedings because of false accusations. The problem is it's too easy to be reported that's why people are left traumatized when it does actually occur and there's no punishment, because the system ends up filtering most cases which end up being falsified.

 

[The Red Thinker]

He's only got himself to blame on the premise of the lockdown being breached. The rape allegations are always a difficult situation, it's very easy for women to shout those words especially when it's in concordance to a multimillionaire sports professional. I don't see why famous individuals have people they don't know sign certain disclosures before entertaining their company. This way all legal formalities are out the window and it gives an understanding for all parties involved. We will have to wait until an investigation is carried out.

Yeah totally... going through the public humiliation and personal torture of revealing you were abused is totally fun - it’s “very easy”

I encourage you to broaden your horizon. For every case you have read about false accusations I can point out 1000 correct ones. I’d have more respect for you if you at least said that this needs to be investigated before you uttered words akin to your name on this forum.

 

[passing-wind]

It's not "easy for women to shout those words". Your disclosure form idea is stupid.

That has nothing to do with what you said.

You should probably stop posting on this subject.

It is what I'm saying is derived from facts not an opinion that I've randomly decided to come up with. I have to liaise with councils and support environments for underprivileged youth coming through education for a range of social factors. I'm not generalising to say this is prominent in the UK's entirety but I know with certainty that it happens in London excessively.

 

[pacifictheme]

Excessively.

 

[passing-wind]

Yeah totally... going through the public humiliation and personal torture of revealing you were abused is totally fun - it’s “very easy”

I encourage you to broaden your horizon. For every case you have read about false accusations I can point out 1000 correct ones. I’d have more respect for you if you at least said that this needs to be investigated before you uttered words akin to your name on this forum.

Your talking from a perspective of people having a genuine case to exemplify which causes them the emotional distress involved with the process. The summation of what I'm saying is for the large group of people who exploit this area making the judicial decisions even more compromised when determining conclusive charges.

The problem is especially in London it's hard to authenticate because there are a large sum of people who will exploit others for gain or an agenda. I do have to reiterate that I'm not generalising, but having worked in close in the proximity of the results of these matters and the consequences they bring it is too easily reported from those factions of individuals which prompts there to be a change in the way the law identifies these issues.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Please stop. And please stop reiterating "I work in this area" as if it gives any sort of credence to your ramblings.

 

[passing-wind]

Excessively.

You would be surprised, you also have to consider that the media won't report many false accusations because the police report the investigations as NFA which isn't always consulted in statistics. My considerations are not for women to not express a genuine case of being raped but rather for there to be a restructuring of how an accusation is made. Because the process available is incoherently flawed.

 

[passing-wind]

Please stop. And please stop reiterating "I work in this area" as if it gives any sort of credence to your ramblings.

I used to - it does give credence because the work consisted of such matters, not often but on occasion as the processes were to help galvanise SCP (social crime prevention) often referred with criminologists / organic data. I do have to emphasise that what I have assessed was in areas around London so in no way is this accumulative for the UK as a whole. I've also not been able to see every single case reported rather those where a minor is somehow influenced so it's completely subsidized from the overall majority.

I'll delete the original post as I do not want to come across as being desensitised from those who have genuinely gone through difficulties if such experience.

 

[Vargo Hoat]

I'm not taking any sides in this argument, but I find it interesting that those of you who oppose passing-wind and claim to have the moral high ground only reply in short sentences and with attacks on him personally and not on the case at hand. Disagree with what he has to say? Fine, make a case against it. This is low-quality content. No wonder some of you have tens of thousands of posts if this is where the bar is set.

 

[TheReligion]

I'm not taking any sides in this argument, but I find it interesting that those of you who oppose passing-wind and claim to have the moral high ground only reply in short sentences and with attacks on him personally and not on the case at hand. Disagree with what he has to say? Fine, make a case against it. This is low-quality content. No wonder some of you have tens of thousands of posts if this is where the bar is set.

Shit. Got. Real.

 

[horsechoker]

I'm not taking any sides in this argument, but I find it interesting that those of you who oppose passing-wind and claim to have the moral high ground only reply in short sentences and with attacks on him personally and not on the case at hand. Disagree with what he has to say? Fine, make a case against it. This is low-quality content. No wonder some of you have tens of thousands of posts if this is where the bar is set.

Are some people against passing wind?

 

[Brightonian]

Is it appropriate to discuss an unresolved serious criminal allegation like this on a football forum at all?

 

[SalfordRed18]

Think this thread should be locked for the time being personally.

 

[SalfordRed18]

I'm not taking any sides in this argument, but I find it interesting that those of you who oppose passing-wind and claim to have the moral high ground only reply in short sentences and with attacks on him personally and not on the case at hand. Disagree with what he has to say? Fine, make a case against it. This is low-quality content. No wonder some of you have tens of thousands of posts if this is where the bar is set.

You. I like you. You said a good, accurate thing. I like good accurate things.