Can Ole seriously rebuild United without leaders?

fastwalker

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We are now six weeks into Ole Gunnar's rebuild at United. Not much has happened in the transfer market just yet, but media reports suggest that things are going to pick up pace.

Like any United fan, I want to see good, high quality players signed in this window. At a minimum, we are in desperate need of a centre back, a right back, a defensive midfielder (possibly a creative midfielder if Pogba goes) and another striker to replace Lukaku (if he goes).

On top of that we are in absolutely dire need of leaders. We are totally leaderless on the field. The senior players such as Young, Jones and Smalling are so totally hapless that no-one could possibly look to them for inspiration. Pogba? He is not a leader. Even if he were to stay, his credibility, currency and commitment is so questionable, I doubt that any player would seriously look to him for any sort of leadership.

My concern when I look at where we are aiming for is that City have leaders in Fernandinho, De Bruyne and even Sterling. Likewise Liverpool have leaders in abundance in Henderson, Milner, Van Dijk and Robertson. Leaders do not always need to be the most talented players. but they do need to be the most respected.

Right now, I cannot see who United's leaders are or indeed whether bringing in five or six top players will by itself be enough, if we do not have two or three on-field leaders to mould them into a cohesive force.

Would do you think?
 

Crashoutcassius

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No we won't win anything until we get leaders into the team. But I don't see anything wrong with no winning anything next year and building a new talented squad or the future... we can add players as the opportunity arises
 

GDaly95

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No one can rebuild a team (especially a team as bad and gutless as ours) without leaders.

I really hope that if things get worse again next season, the fans point 100% of the blame above Ole and to the hierarchy. If we don't get in the right players, he is nothing but a fall guy attempting to carry out an impossible task.
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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Nope, no one can.
I’ve made a thread a few months back about the necessity of us signing a leader, because we literally have none, absolutely none.

Some have the experience but not the skills or the ability, some have the skills but not the attitude or the experience , some have neither.

We need to sign a leader, but it is incredibly difficult to find a player who could take on that role, and become the most important and the most consistent player in the team quickly.
 

hobbers

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On and off, Arsenal have had some great technical players and some teams capable of playing great football post the invincibles era. They won nothing other than a couple of token cups because they had exactly zero leaders.

In the current squad, who can you look to on the pitch for any sort of calm assurance, guidance, guile? Nobody.

We have no one with backbone, no one with nous. Even just in terms of grit, which should be right throughout the squad, we've maybe got some in Rashford (at least in terms of playing on through nasty injuries) and the rest of it we lost when Herrera left.
 

Thiagoal

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Interestingly, looking to the academy we have lots of natural leaders coming through! Henderson, Tuanzebe, O'Connor, Gomes, Brandon Williams and even Greenwood seem really switched on and mentally tough! Question is, how many can we integrate into the team?
 

Celoti23-81

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Leadership comes from above first and foremost. Is Ole that guy, myself I don't think he is. Doesn't strike me as a guy that demands respect. That why I thought he was a good interim manager, a substitute teacher so to speak!
You look at Klopp and Guardiola, their achievements automatically demands their respect! It then snowball's from there! You will never attract leaders on the pitch unless you're a leader yourself!
We could have 5 Roy keane's on the football field but wouldn't guarantee anything unless they respected their manager
 

AaronRedDevil

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Every successful team needs a leader and sadly the only "Leader" we have wants to leave and he couldn't be arsed to even be impactful anymore. De Gea is not commanding enough. Herrera was the last one and now he's gone. Smalling......yeah so we really need a leader and honestly I can't think of a player we could even buy to eventually become one. It's a rare thing. Maybe Maguire?

For some reason Mata seems like the player who could at least make a presence on the pitch and proved work ethic. He's been here a long while and wants to stay at the club, plus he's an intelligence player on the pitch.
 

UnRational

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Leadership comes from above first and foremost. Is Ole that guy, myself I don't think he is. Doesn't strike me as a guy that demands respect. That why I thought he was a good interim manager, a substitute teacher so to speak!
You look at Klopp and Guardiola, their achievements automatically demands their respect! It then snowball's from there! You will never attract leaders on the pitch unless you're a leader yourself!
We could have 5 Roy keane's on the football field but wouldn't guarantee anything unless they respected their manager
Agree completely.
 

sullydnl

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The likes of Young, Mata and a few others are probably good in terms of setting an off-the-field example (which is likely a large part of why Ole wanted to keep them around) but they're not on the field leaders as such, as rarely as they likely will get on the field anyway. Herrera was probably the best we had in terms of an assertive on-field voice and he's gone.

A lot can be down to the effect the manager has on players too though. For example, Lukaku & Matic seemed comfortable stepping into leadership roles in their first season under Mourinho (as they along with Zlatan were his guys) but that faded as Mourinho did. Or think of Smalling, who seemed to similarly gain authority in the team under LVG before it diminished with the manager's departure.

It might be that certain players feel emboldened to step up into more of a leadership role once they have the confidence of being one of the manager's lynchpins. Not sure who seems likely though.
 

Winrar

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Proper leadership is necessary not just in football, but also in pretty much every job in life to bring out the best in its employers, in this case football players. At the risk of drawing ire from another comparison to rivals, just look at how motivated Liverpool players say they are fighting for Klopp, and how that translates onto the pitch. Result is all the players punching above their weight and reaching their best potential.

Will Ole be able to replicate that kind of motivation from his players? Bit of a tricky question to answer for the long run, given we have seen us at our best and worst extremes under his stewardship. But at least in this department, there is a reason for some degree of optimism.

Other half would be fulfilled when we have proper leaders on the pitch that can motivate those around them to play at their best level, which is where the more serious issues lie, because right now I don't see any leaders in our team. Pogba, while talented enough to carry a game on his own at times, doesn't strike to me as a player that can elevate those that play around him. Mata used to be the same way but he's on decline and no longer able to carry games on his own. Less said about others like Sanchez, Smalling, Young, Lingard, etc. the better.
 

Tarrou

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I questioned whether he was the right man for a rebuild in a thread I created back in January (Ole is a worryingly easy out for the Glazers). I still don't know, and that was the point really, we won't know until he has a crack at it because he's never done it before.

That said, back then I expected him to have a DoF or similar helping him, and feck all has happened on that front. I feel sorry for Ole now as it is starting to appear as though he's setup for failure here, but let's see how the next few weeks go and if the club actually backs him in the market.

If we have a weak summer, it will be a miracle if we have a successful season.
 

R'hllor

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Nope, he finds those who were carried by true legends and leaders as winners.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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No we can’t. And we don’t have one in the team. Young is the best one we got but even so, his quality won’t make up for it.

However, the issue is bigger than not having leaders. Our team has too many players that don’t focus in football. One or two leaders won’t be enough try to control or influence this whole team. Need to get rid the ones who is likely giving bad influence in the team.
 

cyril C

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Yes, we just hired a 3rd goal keeper coach. Apparently he believed more goal keeper coaches can lead and inspire the team.
 

tentan

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It's not really about leaders is it? Under Moyes we had many leaders - Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Rooney etc, yet we failed miserably.
 

Raoul

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It's not really about leaders is it? Under Moyes we had many leaders - Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Rooney etc, yet we failed miserably.
All of them were at the end of their careers for the most part. We need a Roy Keane type leader.
 

tentan

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All of them were at the end of their careers for the most part. We need a Roy Keane type leader.
Are there much or if any Roy Keane types in todays game? Don't think players would be allowed to behave the way he did these days.
 

Rhyme Animal

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Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
Personally don't think Ole is a leader himself.

Maybe that's why the Glazers wanted him... easy to deal with, undemanding - grateful to be in the job, rather than expecting of victory (and the backing that victory takes).
 

Gasolin

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Personally don't think Ole is a leader himself.

Maybe that's why the Glazers wanted him... easy to deal with, undemanding - grateful to be in the job, rather than expecting of victory (and the backing that victory takes).
There is no way Ole is not a winner himself but that doesn’t mean he can succeed here. I honestly think he needs some help.
 

Raoul

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Are there much or if any Roy Keane types in todays game? Don't think players would be allowed to behave the way he did these days.
LIkely not, but we do need some form of leadership in the squad. We are completely rudderless with the likes of Pogba, which is odd given that he somehow managed to channel his inner Roy Keane during the world cup.
 

DoomSlayer

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LIkely not, but we do need some form of leadership in the squad. We are completely rudderless with the likes of Pogba, which is odd given that he somehow managed to channel his inner Roy Keane during the world cup.
I think we lack any sort of cohesion and team chemistry - there have been quite a few reports along the last couple of years of cliques forming inside the dressing room and from observing what has been happening, I'm heavily inclined to believe those stories.

Remember how close Pogba used to be with Lukaku and Lingard? They literally were together on holiday in the US when Lukaku was signed from Everton, I remember the photos of them playing basketball and doing joint interviews from Lukaku's mansion, it was in LA if I'm not mistaken. Then we had the famous "scandal" of both players unfollowing each other on social media and the information that was spreading was how Lukaku is siding with Mourinho in the feud he had with the Frenchman. They supposedly got over it, but I don't think the relationships were ever repaired fully and Lukaku had many subtle digs in interviews about players having to "get on with it".

Lingard and PP were also very close from Mourinho's first season, because of the apparent link of them being peers in the youth system and getting together again. Not sure their bond is as strong as it was perceived back then.

The toxicity created in some way by Mourinho has seriously damaged the harmony in the team and the tipping point was probably the arrival of Sanchez. So many stories in the media of unrest in the squad but people chose to ignore them, because "we are Man United and the press love to show us up in a bad way all the time". We all know them, no need to repeat what has happened, although it was funny remembering when Pogba and Sanchez were arguing who should take a penalty in the first few minutes of the game against Leicester in the beginning of the season, whilst Pogba was still the captain.

In contrast, Pogba seems to have the perfect relationship with the players of his national team and the manager there, even if he has had a few criticisms for him here and there. The younger French players obviously respect him so no wonder he was able to become the motivator, when he was much more motivated himself. I believe that Jose fundamentally never really understood the differences in the conditions for Pogba and it's the reason why he made those comments after the World Cup.

On topic, sad to say it but I don't see how Ole will be able to rebuild the relationships and to create a better chemistry with the same players. It's the reason why we needed to quickly offload a few of the deadwood players and bring in fresh blood, which could have changed the dynamic in the dressing room. Now we have players publicly stating they want to leave and I'm sure some of the others won't be happy with it when they gather together for the pre-season. Really wish that Solskjaer proves me wrong because I like his footballing vision and philosophy, I'm just not sure how inspirational or ruthless he can be.
 
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Baby-faced Assassin

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This is why I’m behind signing Maguire. We lack any true candidates for captain and I could see him being very important as a leader at the back.

He’s not WC but he’s vocal and he’s brave defensively and in attack which is important at United. With Wan Bissaka and Shaw both defence-first fullbacks, Maguire wouldn’t have to be prime Nesta.

Add Tielemans and Fernandes who have both been captains at a young age and we start to have some character. We just need to move on some of those who don’t want to be there (regardless of talent) and we’ll start to build as a team not just a collection of individuals.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Ole definitely need more leaders on the pitch and squad.

Not just leadership skills but leaders need to back it up with talents when playing. Difficult to "follow" them when the supposedly "leaders" are not "proving" it.

Pogba can do both, but we know his recent comment not long ago.. amazing leadership. He also had at times problem in proving it on pitch.
Herrera can do both, the best we got but left.
Mata, Young, Matic, Sanchez all just can't prove it anymore consistently when playing to back it up.
Lukaku doesn't look bothered anymore and likely he's leaving.
Lingard showed early promises tbh years ago but now he's losing his head.
Smalling became a beastly one just in one individual impressive season, then the next he just.. disappear.​

Players with leadership skills can drop the handle whenever they pleases, some players though maintain their professionalism.

I'm not too worried.
a. Getting/buying leaders is not a proven success. It depends. Zlatan is a success for only 1 season, barely any influence the next understandably because he cannot back it up anymore. Schweini, a leader, is a massive disappointment in 2 seasons, Lukaku and Matic are only useful for 1 season then disappointing... Sanchez is somewhat useful for half a season then rubbish. Those latter 4 players can be describe as leaders in some sort (most previously), but sure you're free to rewrite their history.

b. time for players we have to step-up and become leaders then. From the current team, I have some small hopes towards the likes of Rashford, Lindelof and McTominay but meh who knows how they will turn up next season onward. The rest need to do more and exert themselves better. De Gea also have that potential but we know his mental problems.. and the damn contract, he's likely leaving anyway so better start looking for someone else.

c. our youth though, Tuanzebe and Dean Henderson are promising, and seemingly showing signs of leadership. But I won't be too hopeful. Not sure about the others, what they do with the first team is more important.

d. Ole and Carrick, two leaders, can act in a more supporting role, but seriously having leaders on the pitch helps more. Leading by example i.e. playing is more impactful than leading by supporting/commanding. Post-saf seasons, Carrick did a lot inspiring performances leading the team halfway through many seasons (3-4 seasons iirc) didn't he, that was awesome, sure his influences dropped off towards the end because his leg can't handle it anymore, but still that inspiring performances, leading by example is the best.
 

GoldanoGraham

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That’s why I think Harry Maguire would be a great signing for us - he looks like he is a natural vocal leader - someone that will leave it all on the pitch - in the Steve Bruce mould.

His price is high and there are certain question marks about his ability/value for money but how much value would you put on leadership in the team? We are currently void of this?

When was the last time you saw a Utd player take full responsibility and fight to the bitter end? These days we just give up easily when it goes against us and blame everyone else or sulk.

Maguire would stand up to be counted and be vocal - that’s why I’m really hoping that we sign him - if it’s £80m then I’d look at that as £60m for the CB and £20m for a leader....

We need a mentality change as well as just player changes
 

Bestietom

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We are now six weeks into Ole Gunnar's rebuild at United. Not much has happened in the transfer market just yet, but media reports suggest that things are going to pick up pace.

Like any United fan, I want to see good, high quality players signed in this window. At a minimum, we are in desperate need of a centre back, a right back, a defensive midfielder (possibly a creative midfielder if Pogba goes) and another striker to replace Lukaku (if he goes).

On top of that we are in absolutely dire need of leaders. We are totally leaderless on the field. The senior players such as Young, Jones and Smalling are so totally hapless that no-one could possibly look to them for inspiration. Pogba? He is not a leader. Even if he were to stay, his credibility, currency and commitment is so questionable, I doubt that any player would seriously look to him for any sort of leadership.

My concern when I look at where we are aiming for is that City have leaders in Fernandinho, De Bruyne and even Sterling. Likewise Liverpool have leaders in abundance in Henderson, Milner, Van Dijk and Robertson. Leaders do not always need to be the most talented players. but they do need to be the most respected.

Right now, I cannot see who United's leaders are or indeed whether bringing in five or six top players will by itself be enough, if we do not have two or three on-field leaders to mould them into a cohesive force.

Would do you think?
I think you are right. We need leaders more than anything. In Defence, Midfield, and Attack. The heartbeat of any top team is the midfield and we need leaders here for sure.
 

fastwalker

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Leadership comes from above first and foremost. Is Ole that guy, myself I don't think he is. Doesn't strike me as a guy that demands respect. That why I thought he was a good interim manager, a substitute teacher so to speak!
You look at Klopp and Guardiola, their achievements automatically demands their respect! It then snowball's from there! You will never attract leaders on the pitch unless you're a leader yourself!
We could have 5 Roy keane's on the football field but wouldn't guarantee anything unless they respected their manager
With leadership, if you don't know what it is then you wont know where to find it. You only look to look at Sir Alex, he was a bona fide leader: he took tough decisions, he inspired his players, he didn't tolerate nonsense and he picked leaders who could lead in his image. You only need to look back at Robson, Keane, Schmiechel, Cantona, Neville, Vidic and Ferdinand to know that. I look at the United side now and cannot see a single player in that leadership mould. Not even one.

I totally get the value of having experienced players, who understand the club's culture and traditions about the place; I get all that. But if Ole seriously thinks that Ashley Young, Phil Jones and Chris Smalling are the type of senior leaders that we need or the best kind of leaders that we can get, then we are in real trouble.
 

Sky1981

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Interestingly, looking to the academy we have lots of natural leaders coming through! Henderson, Tuanzebe, O'Connor, Gomes, Brandon Williams and even Greenwood seem really switched on and mentally tough! Question is, how many can we integrate into the team?
Not this again. They're bound to fail, and sold to lower table teams or championships teams on a cheap.

I swear our fans thinks every one of our youth player is the next co92.

We'd be lucky if one of them can be a squad player, let alone captain
 

Hawks2008

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As far as Ole is concerned we have leaders. He's ensured his pals Youngy and Jonah are going to here for years to come and help guide all the young British players he will bring in.
 

Sky1981

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LIkely not, but we do need some form of leadership in the squad. We are completely rudderless with the likes of Pogba, which is odd given that he somehow managed to channel his inner Roy Keane during the world cup.
If a young keane suddenly emerges in our dressing room, he wont be respected, he'd be ostracized by pog jlingz and the cool kids.

Keane works because the man behind him empowers him. Put keane at any other team without fergie he'd be boycotted out
 

Remember the geese

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Incredibly negative attitude you have there. Not all of them will make it at United of course, but it won't reflect well on the club if none of them do as there is a lot of talent bubbling under. In addition to the players listed, I'd like to see how Teden Mengi develops. Reminds me of Tuanzebe, but looks even better in the air.
 

clarkydaz

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If a young keane suddenly emerges in our dressing room, he wont be respected, he'd be ostracized by pog jlingz and the cool kids.

Keane works because the man behind him empowers him. Put keane at any other team without fergie he'd be boycotted out
this is so true. Even jose has said he had to tread carefully with 'his excellency' Pogba. what chance does a manger have to exert authority?