Can this team challenge for the title?

redshaw

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No

We'd need a collapse around us to get a challenge in. 4th is going to be a real challenge to hold on to
 

M Utd

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Thought I’d start a positive thread amongst the negativity brought upon by this transfer window. So, if by some chance Woodward pulls through and gets us all our supposed main targets before Tuesday ends, this leaves us with the team:

DDG
AWB Lindelof Maguire Telles
Pogba Matic
Sancho/Dembele Bruno Rashford
Martial

Subs: Deano, Bailly, Shaw, McT, VdB, Greenwood, Cavani

Reserves: Romero, Rojo, Tuanzebe, Williams, TFM, Fred, Mata, Lingard, James, Ighalo.

Instantly, you notice a top first XI and more importantly in this congested, tiring season, good squad depth, including some decent players who can’t even make the 18 on a day when everyone is fit. I wouldn’t say it rivals Liverpool’s squad just yet (although, the depth does), but if these guys hit good form like many did at the back end of last season, we can beat anybody on any day.

So, stick to the thread please. No transfer talk here. Can this squad challenge for the title?
Great discussion thread.

First lets remove the notion of not getting players as you have said.

Short answer is no. The longer probably more interesting answer is that its the 2nd phase into turning this squad capable of winning titles again. We've seen it so many times that teams who are dominant go through phases and they develop over time. The team you outline wouldn't win the title this year but might in a couple of years with a better structure of play (which is possible with better players - just look at how our style changed when Bruno joined) as well as adding individuals when required.

Teams tend to go in phases. Even Sir Alex had periods of little to no success but he had the vision to look ahead (and time from the board) to implement his ideas and make us competitive again. Look at Liverpool in the 80s to 90s and then how long it took them to win a league. We simply don't know what happens behind closed doors nor do we know exactly who is involved in the structure of the team. One thing we can probably agree on is that Sir Alex tended to have final say but that was earnt from very long standing success.

I think even players need a level of stability. Surly its better for player to play under a manager who specifically wants them. Look again at Sir Alex. Every player was either in the squad as he either brought them or promoted them from within. That must instill a geat level of confidence. We are starting to see something similar now but who knows if it will be successful.
 

RashyForPM

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Great discussion thread.

First lets remove the notion of not getting players as you have said.

Short answer is no. The longer probably more interesting answer is that its the 2nd phase into turning this squad capable of winning titles again. We've seen it so many times that teams who are dominant go through phases and they develop over time. The team you outline wouldn't win the title this year but might in a couple of years with a better structure of play (which is possible with better players - just look at how our style changed when Bruno joined) as well as adding individuals when required.

Teams tend to go in phases. Even Sir Alex had periods of little to no success but he had the vision to look ahead (and time from the board) to implement his ideas and make us competitive again. Look at Liverpool in the 80s to 90s and then how long it took them to win a league. We simply don't know what happens behind closed doors nor do we know exactly who is involved in the structure of the team. One thing we can probably agree on is that Sir Alex tended to have final say but that was earnt from very long standing success.

I think even players need a level of stability. Surly its better for player to play under a manager who specifically wants them. Look again at Sir Alex. Every player was either in the squad as he either brought them or promoted them from within. That must instill a geat level of confidence. We are starting to see something similar now but who knows if it will be successful.
Fantastic reply I must say. Yeah, I don’t think that squad would win it either this season, hence why I said challenge. Good point about the phases too. Last season was us getting rid of deadwood and now Ole wants to improve the squad, which unfortunately the board isn’t helping with. Finally, I like the bit where you said each of the players in our successful teams were wanted by Fergie. That’s positive as it feels the current crop are all Ole’s too, and unwanted players like Smalling, Lukaku, Sanchez, Young, Fellaini have all left.

Question: You’ve made great points about the players, but would you consider Ole good enough to win a title? I’m not sold on him myself, although I’d happily give him this season after he overachieved last.
 

TwoSheds

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That team in the OP would get 2nd. I'd bet your left nut though that we're not getting Sancho. Hopefully we manage to get Telles in.
 

CiroDiMarzio

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That starting XI can compete with any side in the league but as a squad would be a fair distance from a title challenge this season imo.
 

M Utd

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This is quickly becoming an Ole out thread too..
I wonder how much of the style of play is down to the tools we have though? Look at LVG and Jose and the way they tried to play players in ways which didn't suit them and then changed style again.

I expect Ole and his team were telling attacking players to play forward quickly and to make those runs behind but we didn't have the quality to pull it off if Pogba had an off day. Add Bruno and we now have the tools to do these things. Forwards are making those runs with a much better probability of getting the ball. No wonder Martial always came short for a pass to feet when he was being fed by our underperformed midfield. With a few more players we are likely to adapt again.
 

MonkeysMagic

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No! Whilst players assist, its the manager/coach that wins titles. We learned that from past experience, Liv understand that now and City believe absolutely!
 

CG1010

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I wonder how much of the style of play is down to the tools we have though? Look at LVG and Jose and the way they tried to play players in ways which didn't suit them and then changed style again.

I expect Ole and his team were telling attacking players to play forward quickly and to make those runs behind but we didn't have the quality to pull it off if Pogba had an off day. Add Bruno and we now have the tools to do these things. Forwards are making those runs with a much better probability of getting the ball. No wonder Martial always came short for a pass to feet when he was being fed by our underperformed midfield. With a few more players we are likely to adapt again.
Oh I completely agree.. ole is the one who has been able to achieve some cohesiveness in our play. And that happened with set of quality players as you said. Look at Liverpool under Klopp without all pieces together. Even Fergie's teams looked disjointed due to carrying a couple of deadwood players. I have no idea whether eventually he can win the PL but first we need to build a balanced team.
 

diarm

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The thing is, the squad that finished last season, in the games since Bruno joined, took 2.3 points per game and would be on course for 87 points across an entire season.

Where we struggled, was in running the arse out of our best players because we didn't have enough quality in reserve to replace them and both Van de Beek and Cavani are shrewd signings to counter this. We still lack depth in attack - this is where Sancho and Pellistri would be superb business, and at fullback, where we are short on quality in attacking terms - where Telles comes in.

I don't think there is any issue with the profile of player we are aiming to recruit. The problem is the people negotiating the deals and their ability to firstly get deals done at the right time in the summer or secondly, just to get deals done in general. Ole isn't the problem - the players we are going for aren't the problem - Ed and his merry band of banker wankers are the problem.
 

M Utd

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Fantastic reply I must say. Yeah, I don’t think that squad would win it either this season, hence why I said challenge. Good point about the phases too. Last season was us getting rid of deadwood and now Ole wants to improve the squad, which unfortunately the board isn’t helping with. Finally, I like the bit where you said each of the players in our successful teams were wanted by Fergie. That’s positive as it feels the current crop are all Ole’s too, and unwanted players like Smalling, Lukaku, Sanchez, Young, Fellaini have all left.

Question: You’ve made great points about the players, but would you consider Ole good enough to win a title? I’m not sold on him myself, although I’d happily give him this season after he overachieved last.
The honest answer is I don't know. There is lots to like but at times I feel like he makes the same mistakes on a repeated basis.
I honestly do feel he wants to play expansive attacking football. I don't doubt for a second that the change in Martials style of play isn't down to Ole. His pursuit and deployed of Bruno is clearly something he has looked at.

I guess the big question is can he (and his team)improve the others areas of the squad by investment and coaching. Off field staffing recruitment might well be ask key to players to make that push.

We have too many mistakes in the team to win the league but I ask my question.
Do I enjoy watching Utd at the minute? More often that not my current answer is yes (tail end of last season was great) but that certainly wasn't the case under Jose.
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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I think the title will be over for us if we fail to beat Spurs today. Liverpool ain’t going to drop many points.
 

M Utd

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Oh I completely agree.. ole is the one who has been able to achieve some cohesiveness in our play. And that happened with set of quality players as you said. Look at Liverpool under Klopp without all pieces together. Even Fergie's teams looked disjointed due to carrying a couple of deadwood players. I have no idea whether eventually he can win the PL but first we need to build a balanced team.
I fully agree about the balance.

AWB is coming under some real flack recently with some saying we can't win the league with him playing right back as he isn't hitting TAA numbers. But if its part of the process of Ole to say I want a RB to defend as I know exactly what type of RW I want and it certainly won't be for a defence role. If you think Sancho and even more so Dembele they aren't going to track back. The balance therefore works.
 

amolbhatia50k

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You mean to ask whether we could challenge if we had players we don't have ?
 

Andersons Dietician

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I would think it could easy do top 4 but no I don’t see that challenging for the title. Could it win a cup competition. Anything is possible, but I doubt that team will gel as quick as it would need too .I don’t think we are drilled as well as we can be with a system and tactic yet. Still feel like Ole is finding his way a little.

Looked like he had an idea and a plan end of last season but so far looks very different this season.
 

davidmichael

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With how Chelsea have strengthened and Arsenal have seriously improved I’ll be surprised if we even get top four with the current squad let along a title challenge.
 

Andycoleno9

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That team MUST challenge for title. If that team is not in title challenge it is completely on manager. I don't know how many times this must be said; if you are Man Utd you don't set minimum goal for your manager. "Ok, Liverpool and City are slightly better than you so we don't expect 1st and 2nd. You are so-so with Chelsea and Spurs so be 4th and we are happy."
 

RashyForPM

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The honest answer is I don't know. There is lots to like but at times I feel like he makes the same mistakes on a repeated basis.
I honestly do feel he wants to play expansive attacking football. I don't doubt for a second that the change in Martials style of play isn't down to Ole. His pursuit and deployed of Bruno is clearly something he has looked at.

I guess the big question is can he (and his team)improve the others areas of the squad by investment and coaching. Off field staffing recruitment might well be ask key to players to make that push.

We have too many mistakes in the team to win the league but I ask my question.
Do I enjoy watching Utd at the minute? More often that not my current answer is yes (tail end of last season was great) but that certainly wasn't the case under Jose.
The good thing about Ole is that he clearly has a vision for what he wants us to be, and it’s similar to that of the fans. Fast, attacking football. So, he’s started well but it remains to be seen if he can make us title challengers. I believe he can which played a part in me making this thread but on the flip side, there are also some games, like the Palace one, where the management looks so hapless you want them sacked in the heat of the moment. We’ll see. As you said though, he has made watching United mostly enjoyable again. Some of LvG and Mourinho’s football were sleep-inducing. Ole’s teams have put in some good, fun, positive performances.
 

big rons sovereign

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It won't carry on forever. We may get rid of Woodward and have a DOF bringing in right players for the team. We may also stumble upon a manager who can extract maximum from the players. It takes time. We are just in our 8th year in the wilderness. We will get it right shortly.
None of those things are going to happen.
 

dove

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Seriously?
Yea. LVG was allowed to buy his own starting XI and failed miserably. Jose was backed just fine too, just like Ole last year. This idea of managers not being backed well enough is just ridiculous and based on absolutely nothing, just emotions and used to excuse our failing managers because the board is a very easy target.
 

wolvored

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Not a hope, will be lucky to make top 6. Pogba is bang average in 90% of the games he plays (many still claim he's world class however!).VdB deserves a spot in the first 11. Lindelof/Maguire partnership is decent but not top class. Rashford is very hit and miss as is Martial. Considering how other teams have spent and recruited and the strong start they've made I think we will struggle. So far we've been beaten by Palace and played off the park by Brighton but somehow escaped with 3 points. We still don't seem to have a coherent plan when it comes to strengthening the team. We're the new Arsenal, aiming for top 4 with anything higher a bonus. Sadly I don't think we will come close to challenging for the title this year or many years to come tbh.
Couldnt have put it better myself
 

big rons sovereign

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Yea. LVG was allowed to buy his own starting XI and failed miserably. Jose was backed just fine too, just like Ole last year. This idea of managers not being backed well enough is just ridiculous and based on absolutely nothing, just emotions and used to excuse our failing managers because the board is a very easy target.
Deluded. Keep yer head in the sand fella. Everything will be just fine.
 

Castia

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No but good recruitment this summer could have seen us push second. Liverpool will walk it again but from 2nd to 8th it’s anyone’s guess.
 
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Not this season. But with that squad and the addition of an good, athletic CB then yes.

yiu really want A team that’s settled, which we could do this year, and then add the final 1 or2 players to make that push.
 

Sandikan

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Still a work in progress, and unfortunately this summer hasn't done anything to help push it along.

First X1 in form can give anyone a game, but there will be numerous upsets along the road, and with Liverpool looking like they won't drop a point, let alone lose a couple we're not going to be anywhere near good enough to win it.

No-one else looks particularly brilliant behind Liverpool though, so you never know, we could actually blag an improvement on last year! Unlikely though.
 

Falcow

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I think we should now think of the title I terms of points. Last 3 winners
99, 98 and 100 points. Do you think that team can get >90 points if yes then yes we can challenge if no, then no...
Exactly.

I think we are lacking that inspirational leader at the back to get us to 90 point mark. All title winning sides have one, think Bruce, Stam, Rio, Vidic, Kompany, Terry, Adams, VVD, even Leicester's two were great that one season at least! We currently dont have one good enough to take us over 90 point mark and there is none that I know of that is available anywhere at the moment.

That said even with no more signings I expect current squad to get at least 80 points this season. A quick extrapolation of points since Bruno arrived should give us around 80 over course of the season.
 

Crashoutcassius

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If you are saying yes then you are saying this is one of the greatest teams of all time. I better not see you in the maguire or awb thread saying they are overrated while saying in here that this 11 is top three greatest 11s in english football history
 

MrEarl

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Our five offensesive players are excellent. Our five outfield defensive players are capable of doing the job defensively but they have a fatal flaw that prevents the two of them from working in unison.

Sheffield United was the first to find out how to nullify our offense of unit. They lost the game even though they bottled up the team. Our defense cannot withstand an effective press. By this point in time pretty much everybody is figured out that the way to play United is to press the defense and keep the defense in its own end.

Of the five starting defenders Shaw is the only one with arguably the ability to move the ball up the field through the press to the offense. The other four lack the ability and the skills needed.

An effective press nullifies much of the advantage Fernandes brings to the team. There is criticism of Martial for one for not being involved. He and the others are not being involved because the defense can't move the ball in a manner that law allows the offense to attack. What's left is pretty much counterattack football. Just like pre Fernandes.

Replacing Matic with Fred would help as would replacing Lindelof with Bailly. But after Fred and Bailly what's left is DVB. Man Utd seems to be about the only team left in the Premier league that's unaware of our defensive flaw.
 

fps

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I think this team can put together 75 points.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Can, but realistically not.

I mean any team actually can, the weaker it is, the more luck and good manager it needs. Bad gamble to only rely on lucks. By having a strong team with a good manager, you don't need to rely too much on lucks.
 

Untd55

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I would say with Sancho and Fernandes for a whole season, that team should be looking at 85 points. It likely wouldn't be enough for a title challenge if Liverpool is able to repeat their points total last season, but if they drop off, I don't think a title challenge is as out of bounds as people on here are saying.

It would be up to Solskjaer to make them into a team that can achieve that position. You would have a lot more depth there; we already have a strong midfield (both in terms of depth and first-team); we would also have a much stronger attack, which actually has options (are we including Cavani here?). It would be lenient not to expect 85 points, to be honest.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Thought I’d start a positive thread amongst the negativity brought upon by this transfer window. So, if by some chance Woodward pulls through and gets us all our supposed main targets before Tuesday ends, this leaves us with the team:

DDG
AWB Lindelof Maguire Telles
Pogba Matic
Sancho/Dembele Bruno Rashford
Martial

Subs: Deano, Bailly, Shaw, McT, VdB, Greenwood, Cavani

Reserves: Romero, Rojo, Tuanzebe, Williams, TFM, Fred, Mata, Lingard, James, Ighalo.

Instantly, you notice a top first XI and more importantly in this congested, tiring season, good squad depth, including some decent players who can’t even make the 18 on a day when everyone is fit. I wouldn’t say it rivals Liverpool’s squad just yet (although, the depth does), but if these guys hit good form like many did at the back end of last season, we can beat anybody on any day.

So, stick to the thread please. No transfer talk here. Can this squad challenge for the title?
:D mate what?

This thread is so contradicting.
 

big rons sovereign

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:lol: Sums it up if that’s your reply. Spouting nonsense and when asked to back it up, revert to insults.
Hardly an insult is it. But hey, everybody's wrong and you're right. See, the thing about opinion is it's just that, an opinion. You're problem is you believe yours to be fact.
Ok. Agreed lvg ballsed it up, won the fa cup but the board shit all over him by leaking he was sacked.
Jose, backed at first, made second then shafted with no reinforcements.
Same thing is happening now and will continue to happen.
You could even argue they stiffed Moyes to a point.
Ed and and the board are either completely incompetent or rotten to the core. Probably both.
Have a nice time kissing their arse.
 
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