Can we afford to dawdle around again?

Santoryo

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I'm pretty sure most aren't happy with how things are going and would prefer a managerial change. Problem with that is it seems like this isn't happening anytime soon if we go by what's being reported.

Now we've been in this exact situation before where a failing manager get given more time despite terrible results while a top class manager is still unemployed out there waiting to be snatched.

During LVG time, we missed on Klopp when he was unemployed to give LVG more time despite him failing(I know people will bring up Klopp interview about being sought by Ed yet rejected us but that was when he was still in charge of Dortmund, we should have gone after him again when he was unemployed).

We have the same situation with Ole right now. A top manager in Pochettino out there unemployed, our current manager failing miserably and yet we're still dawdling around instead of acting fast. Next thing you know Poch get poached by your Bayern Munich and whatsnot and we end up firing Ole at the end of the season or even earlier but not before losing a chance to bring Pochettino in.

My take is that we get Pochettino is ASAP and part our ways with Ole, there is simply no justification for passing on a top manager for one that has proven to be out of his depth here and in the past in his previous club in England.
 

Santoryo

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Doesn't Poch have to pay a big chunk of cash if he takes another PL job this season? Couple of mill?

I guess we could reimburse him but guessing Woodward thinks he can wait and keep options open (not saying he's right).
This sounds like a risky game. I'm sure of Poch get approached by a top team which means he'll get given top salary, he'll go for it regardless of what happens to his severance money.
 

SirAF

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This sounds like a risky game. I'm sure of Poch get approached by a top team which means he'll get given top salary, he'll go for it regardless of what happens to his severance money.
Agreed. Which is why Woodward should approach Pochettino ASAP and tie him down for the summer.
 

MonkeysMagic

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When was the last time Woodward made a sensible decision? Don't hold your breath on this one, he's too incompetent to run a bath let alone a football club!
 

adexkola

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I guess I don't see it as some sort of existential crisis if we don't get Poch. There are many managers who would do great with the right level of support.

And with a dysfunctional setup, Poch wouldn't do any good. So meh.
 

Mourinhonista

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When was the last time Woodward made a sensible decision? Don't hold your breath on this one, he's too incompetent to run a bath let alone a football club!
What's his end game here? He's an educated man who's been working in football for years, he must know that if the dreadful performances on the pitch continue, revenue will drop eventually. There's got to be a plan, IMO.
 

Greck

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If Poch didn't have that clause I would say sacking Ole was a must. We basically have 6 months of filler before we can get him so yes we have no option but to dawdle with Ole or whichever underqualified caretaker we can find

Problem is Ole is just so bad at this job that asking him to do the bare minimum to keep fans content to keep him till June may be too much for him
 

TheReligion

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I'm pretty confident we will look to bring Poch in over the summer.

1) SAF is a big fan
2) It's alleged Poch would be keen on the job - his head was turned last season
3) Ole wouldn't make a fuss and would be cheap to remove

I also think this will suit everyone in the summer as opposed to now. I suggest rather than have moaning about it in thread after thread we hold tight and see what happens. Poch likely needs a bit of a break, and there's the issue regarding his severance agreement with Spurs. This season is a write off anyway so why not let Ole finish it off with an agreement in place for summer.
 

The Cat

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Tie Poch up right now - give him a break and keep it under wraps until the Summer and give Ole time to go out gracefully.

I can't see much wrong with that plan. There is no better alternative.
 

Leftback99

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This Poch stuff is getting beyond the joke. The man has won absolutely nothing yet people talk like he's the one person on the planet that could have us challenging again and we're doomed if we miss out on him.
 

buckooo1978

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I'd try and get an agreement with Poch for the Summer....

He needs a break I think and he'd be able to spend some time planning

the big question is would Poch fancy us?
 

Greck

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This Poch stuff is getting beyond the joke. The man has won absolutely nothing yet people talk like he's the one person on the planet that could have us challenging again and we're doomed if we miss out on him.
Why does he have to win the PL or CL if the point of comparison is Ole? The bar for Poch is winning things while the bar for success for Ole is playing young players while losing every other game
 

buckooo1978

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This Poch stuff is getting beyond the joke. The man has won absolutely nothing yet people talk like he's the one person on the planet that could have us challenging again and we're doomed if we miss out on him.
I like him as he's shown he's been able to get the best out of players, has created a good attacking side, likes Youth - without winning a trophy he's been really successful in getting Spurs to punch well above their weight

who would you look to appoint?
 

Leftback99

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I like him as he's shown he's been able to get the best out of players, has created a good attacking side, likes Youth - without winning a trophy he's been really successful in getting Spurs to punch well above their weight

who would you look to appoint?
It's a totally different situation with a completely different set up behind the scenes and a weaker set of players. Thinking he'll turn us into Spurs 16/17 (which is basically what all his hype is built on) is just wishful thinking.

I don't have a clue who i'd appoint anymore, maybe it would be Poch in the end. I just don't buy into this panic that he's the one man that can save us. I fell into the trap of thinking Mourinho was that man before and learnt my lesson.

No one is going to turn this mess of a squad into PL challengers anytime soon. Anyone coming in straight away just because they are available is doomed to fail.
 

United Hobbit

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The other thing to take into consideration is Arsenal, a direct rival, are currently actively looking for a new manager
 

buckooo1978

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It's a totally different situation with a completely different set up behind the scenes and a weaker set of players. Thinking he'll turn us into Spurs 16/17 (which is basically what all his hype is built on) is just wishful thinking.

I don't have a clue who i'd appoint anymore, maybe it would be Poch in the end. I just don't buy into this panic that he's the one man that can save us. I fell into the trap of thinking Mourinho was that man before and learnt my lesson.

No one is going to turn this mess of a squad into PL challengers anytime soon. Anyone coming in straight away just because they are available is doomed to fail.
no one is suggesting hes turning us into title challengers and anytime soon.

The United job is a long term job with or without Poch - its going to require structural changes and lots of investment

What is undeniable is that Poch is an upgrade on Ole in terms of tactics, team selection, presence and getting the best out of players

do you think Ole is the right man to carry on or who do you want as manager?
 

Leftback99

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no one is suggesting hes turning us into title challengers and anytime soon.

The United job is a long term job with or without Poch - its going to require structural changes and lots of investment

What is undeniable is that Poch is an upgrade on Ole in terms of tactics, team selection, presence and getting the best out of players

do you think Ole is the right man to carry on or who do you want as manager?
We have no idea how Poch will do with what is an inferior set of players to his Spurs side. It would just be hope that he could repeat the trick AND our recruitment gives him the platform to do so.

Like I said in the post replied to, I don't know who I'd appoint.

What I'd say Ole is is a compromise between the Director of football/structure we need (long term plan) and a top class manager to deliver that plan. We need both. Throwing Poch or any other manager into this mess is just doomed to fail.
 

wolvored

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Agreed. Which is why Woodward should approach Pochettino ASAP and tie him down for the summer.
Agreed. I'd prefer Rodgers but that's not going to happen. Pay pocc a couple of mill to stay on gardening leave till june
 

Crashoutcassius

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This sounds like a risky game. I'm sure of Poch get approached by a top team which means he'll get given top salary, he'll go for it regardless of what happens to his severance money.
In reality all top teams incl United have already spoken to him, arsenal bayern Madrid United... wouldn't be surprised if others too
 

Russky14

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The United job is only long term because of the muppets that own and control the club.

I have supported the club since 1976 and lived most of my life in the NEast so for me visits to OT have always been limited. The way I read it there are a majority on here who want OGS out (putting aside leg-end). There are an even bigger majority that want Woody Woodpecker & the Adams family gone.

So a question for all those OT season ticket holders on here who want the latter particularly the latter to happen. I see people post & then re-side themselves they can't do anything. The start point has to be audible dissension at home matches, not a plane at 2000 ft with a banner. 20k people chanting Woody & Glazers out with banners during the match. Also need to temporarily replace those banners capital city of throphies one's for a while.

Sit on you backside and do nowt or show some fight for your club. The Glazers are stubborn and the commercial aspect at the moment is not hindered by the rubbish on the pitch - but it will be at some point. Some one posted that we need to have a full blown crisis i.e. finish 15 to 17th & I would agree. So if you want Christmas to happen (well right off this one) then the pressure at matches needs to be ramped-up massively including even to detriment on the pitch- well it can't get any worse.

Or is it that the majority on here are the actual minority at OT? The majority are brain washed or dead loyalists. Sorry needs to be said.

I said 18 months back Pep will be gone in 4 years (to PSG). As for Klopp all the pundits are saying the Scousers are in 3rd gear. Well there is another way to look at it, that actually they hit 1st gear last season and this year is reality i..e. there are not that good its the norm (the Scousers are equally deluded). Too many 1 goal victories.. Without VVD, Mane & VAR where would they be? At dortmund his hi-press worked for 3 to 4 years and them kaput. This is where I see City & the Scousers in 3 years.

Do nowt and it will take 10 years, do something and it may take 2 or 3 to get back to a challenge whilst fixing the whole structure for long term gain.
 

InLevyITrust

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You wont get Poch by throwing money at him, Woodward will have to sell him the project a vision of where he wants the club to be, and I don't think an adult version of Disneyland will cut it.

The other thing to take into consideration is Arsenal, a direct rival, are currently actively looking for a new manager
He would choose United over Arsenal, I cant see him going their, not because he said he wouldn't but it would be a media shitstorm and that's not something he wants in such a crucial appointment for him.
 

Massive Spanner

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Is the Poch clause even a big deal? I mean the club could just pay it for him if they really wanted him now, or give it to him as a signing bonus, or whatever.
 

Lynty

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This could have been a comment in one of the other 'new manager/Ole out' threads.
 

Harry Harries

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Is the Poch clause even a big deal? I mean the club could just pay it for him if they really wanted him now, or give it to him as a signing bonus, or whatever.
I think he needs to put his hot brain on ice for a sec, anyway. He was clearly burnt out at Spurs, the absolute last thing we need is to bring him in when he's still in the anger/bargaining phase. Get him in the summer when he's comfortably in acceptance and he'll be raring to go! Personally, I'd rather go the Rangnick/German fad route. I fear they'd see Poch as another one who'd try navigate Utd without a Director of Football.
 

Will Singh

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I'm pretty sure most aren't happy with how things are going and would prefer a managerial change. Problem with that is it seems like this isn't happening anytime soon if we go by what's being reported.

Now we've been in this exact situation before where a failing manager get given more time despite terrible results while a top class manager is still unemployed out there waiting to be snatched.

During LVG time, we missed on Klopp when he was unemployed to give LVG more time despite him failing(I know people will bring up Klopp interview about being sought by Ed yet rejected us but that was when he was still in charge of Dortmund, we should have gone after him again when he was unemployed).

We have the same situation with Ole right now. A top manager in Pochettino out there unemployed, our current manager failing miserably and yet we're still dawdling around instead of acting fast. Next thing you know Poch get poached by your Bayern Munich and whatsnot and we end up firing Ole at the end of the season or even earlier but not before losing a chance to bring Pochettino in.

My take is that we get Pochettino is ASAP and part our ways with Ole, there is simply no justification for passing on a top manager for one that has proven to be out of his depth here and in the past in his previous club in England.
Judging by the poll it's literally 50/50 but I have to agree with you. The reality is Ole will be sacked with reports coming out that he's told players if we don't get a result vs Spurs he will get sacked. If that's true then that means Ed and co are on to him but for me I can't see us ever improving to the level where we need to be under Ole so it doesn't matter if we beat Spurs or not.

Poch will improve us to the level of competing for titles at a minimum and who knows with the right backing he might take us to winning titles again...
 

Bestietom

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Doesn't Poch have to pay a big chunk of cash if he takes another PL job this season? Couple of mill?

I guess we could reimburse him but guessing Woodward thinks he can wait and keep options open (not saying he's right).
12.5 million he will have to forfeit, if he takes a job with a premiership side before next summer.
 

VP89

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Doesn't Poch have to pay a big chunk of cash if he takes another PL job this season? Couple of mill?

I guess we could reimburse him but guessing Woodward thinks he can wait and keep options open (not saying he's right).
Would be a drop in the ocean for us compared to paying his release clause if we had gone for him.
 

2 man midfield

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It’s weird how with Poch’s 12m clause we’re in essentially the same position we were in when Ole took over. Everyone thought Ole was in charge until the end of the season, and then we’d get Poch.

Imagine if it happened again where we go on some amazing run which sees us pass on Poch again so Ole can keep the job, only for it to go to shit again next season :lol:
 

bsCallout

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I'm not convinced on Poch in the slightest. I also don't like the idea of taking a manager after a bad season. Done that before.

I've lost all patience with Ole though. Even with the injuries our team should be performing at a better level than it is. More worryingly our defence is atrocious despite us spending money on it and it looking pretty good on paper. It looks weak in every area, every game.

Our 'strongest' area on the pitch is costing us games. Yet we only seem to focus on the odd missed chance or penalty.

It's not how many we concede, it is how we concede them that is so worrying.

DOF & Ten Hag. Put Ole as Head of Youth Development.
 

Zlatattack

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I'm firmly Ole out but I think we can afford to dawdle. Why?

1. The real problem is Woodward and his limited negociating abilities. The squad needs a big overhaul and he's admitted he can't do it quickly.

2. Whoever comes in is not going to improve things drastically. We're short in midfield, Pogba wants out, we don't have a decent 10 or a RW, our strikers are hit and miss. We'll be better than we are right now, but we're going to see another season or two of rubbish before we get back to business.
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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It’s weird how with Poch’s 12m clause we’re in essentially the same position we were in when Ole took over. Everyone thought Ole was in charge until the end of the season, and then we’d get Poch.

Imagine if it happened again where we go on some amazing run which sees us pass on Poch again so Ole can keep the job, only for it to go to shit again next season :lol:
Funny things is I can see the players rallying for the next few matches to keep Ole in. Ole has set the standards so low and these players haven't had it this good since Moyes. Why would they want someone in who will ride them hard.
 
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Would be a drop in the ocean for us compared to paying his release clause if we had gone for him.
I don't disagree.

Just making the point that there's a cost and not convinced Woodward would pay up (if he chooses to get rid of Ole shortly) or try and hold until end of season and do it on the cheap.

His track record of making good/quick decisions is a bit "mixed"?
 

El Zoido

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Said it in another thread just now, Glazers and Woodward are the real problem. While they’re still here we will continue to cycle through managers and none of them will achieve real development. It takes Woodward three months to close one deal, every manager is going to end up tearing their hair out trying to build their team under him. LVG and Mourinho both hated him due to his incompetence. I’m sorry but Poch won’t solve our problems.
 

Bestietom

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I'm firmly Ole out but I think we can afford to dawdle. Why?

1. The real problem is Woodward and his limited negociating abilities. The squad needs a big overhaul and he's admitted he can't do it quickly.

2. Whoever comes in is not going to improve things drastically. We're short in midfield, Pogba wants out, we don't have a decent 10 or a RW, our strikers are hit and miss. We'll be better than we are right now, but we're going to see another season or two of rubbish before we get back to business.
We need a DOF that can negotiate and get deals done quickly if we are to have any chance of building a team any time soon. Woody will take forever with bringing in players. No matter who the manager is, we need someone in place of woody to do the deals. We also need a huge investment from the Glazers for this rebuild.
 

Bestietom

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Said it in another thread just now, Glazers and Woodward are the real problem. While they’re still here we will continue to cycle through managers and none of them will achieve real development. It takes Woodward three months to close one deal, every manager is going to end up tearing their hair out trying to build their team under him. LVG and Mourinho both hated him due to his incompetence. I’m sorry but Poch won’t solve our problems.
Correct, We need a DOF to do the deals and keep Woody away from the football matters.
 

croadyman

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Correct, We need a DOF to do the deals and keep Woody away from the football matters.
Just came across an article saying Pochettino isn't keen on working with a DOF structure, well that would suit our hierarchy to a tee then as they seemingly have absolutely no intention of ever appointing one, all we get is that clown Woody putting out leaks that Utd want to bring one in, usually a tactic he likes to employ when Utd have just had a bad result and he wants to deflect criticism away from himself again.
 

tenpoless

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Hire a top DOF with a great CV, hand the footballing business to him. Let him pick the manager.

How can people still go on and on about ManUnited way with Woodward in charge is a joke. Is ManUnited way lingering around the middle table and having fecking Pereira as our midfielder? Lingard as AM? Rashford/Martial as the main/"senior" goal scorers? Absolute bollocks. Just because They're academy players or young don't mean shit.

Outdated football club still clinging into kick and rush while giving average managers and average players 10 years to be good. Clinging into the past much? there's nothing United about the current results and performances. We're ruining Sir Alex's legacy.

I bet my left bollock that if Sir Alex's still here, He'd adapt to the modern approach and if players aren't good enough They'd end up as squad players only. Not depending on them to save our arse from having a miserable season.

Sir Alex had gotten us so far as a club, why do We ignore that fact and instead keep coming back to when He first came here a.k.a give more time because remember TARA Fergie? stupidest thing ever. It's like your parents had somehow gotten you rich but you always think of days when You were miserable and it's okay to be miserable now, waste their hard earned resources and start from zero again.
 
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