Can we talk about how bad Daniel Levy is for Spurs yet?

Fortitude

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Once hailed as a masterful, canny and shrewd operator for Spurs, but as time has passed and we've seen his practices time and again now; isn't if fair to say he is the primary reason for Spurs' inertia and textbook merry-go-round of both managers and players?

His M.O. of leaving his star players having to fight to get out of the club must also make any real promising up and coming talent wary of stepping foot in the club (where any other option on an equal footing is available to them) and after the exodus - or keeping unhappy players - we're about to see, it's hard to envisage anything but a tumble back into pack they almost extricated from during , what is now looking like their version of a golden era.

Does anybody else feel the above is inevitable and nearly all of it is down to Levy and his practices with both bringing in, and selling on talent as well as pin-balling from manager to manager? Pochettino's era had the potential to be pivotal for them and instead, they've made a pig's ear of it on each level presented (youth development, squad development, sales and managerial) and who else can the finger for that be pointed to but Levy?

Is the once-lauded-one ever going to be scrutinised?
 

el3mel

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He's not a bad chairman but I think he managed the entire Poch's team pretty badly and it showing. He didn't cash on stars to rebuild earlier and ended up with a team full of duds and going down hill. His reluctant to sell and buy just to prove that Spurs aren't a selling team is a main reason for their problems imo
 

InfiniteBoredom

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He’s always been the same, it’s just fans being knee-jerky with their takes, as usual.

It’s the same with FSG and Liverpool. Upper management at most clubs are usually average to crap, and what makes the difference is great managers and players, which Spurs happened to hit the jackpot with both but still ultimately bungled it in Spursy fashion.
 

ti vu

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He is tough negotiator especially for buyer, which works best when Spurs was in that level of elite nursery ground for up coming talents. However, when there is expectation for Spurs to take the next step and utilize the talents to win trophy, he's out of his depth. Transfer net spend winning is not the same as trophy winning. To win trophy, you have to gamble on having higher transfer net spend, but gaining profit via on the pitch successes. Levy never took that step. He instead chose to follow Arsenal footstep via stadium project, to fleece the fans out their money.
 

Bebestation

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It’s hard to judge.

Spurs maybe don’t have the money like other clubs and they could be doing well by being a relevant club over the last 10 years - especially when you compare what’s happened to Arsenal.

On the other side, maybe they did have money or quality to decent players ( son, Kane, lloris, Eriksen, bale, alderweireld etc) to achieve a bit more - ie win a domestic cup for example.
 

Varun

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He’s always been the same, it’s just fans being knee-jerky with their takes, as usual.

It’s the same with FSG and Liverpool. Upper management at most clubs are usually average to crap, and what makes the difference is great managers and players, which Spurs happened to hit the jackpot with both but still ultimately bungled it in Spursy fashion.
This is pretty true. Us fans love to reverse engineer top management quality based on what happens on the pitch which is heavily influenced by quality of manager and players. That's not to say all chairmen are the same but almost all of the work happens behind the scenes leaving any casual fan who's honest to admit he/she doesn't really have a clue.

Levy has had his ego trips which has cost spurs but overall, I doubt there are many spurs supporters who are disappointed with his stint so far. That said, it brings us back to the first point. How much of that was down to Levy and how much down to Poch who did a good job there? It's been pretty downhill since then (appointing Mou was tragic and lovely :lol:) so let's see what he's made of.
 

Sky1981

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To be fair he has to work with what he have.

His M.O. of leaving his star players having to fight to get out of the club must also make any real promising up and coming talent wary of stepping foot in the club (where any other option on an equal footing is available to them) and after the exodus - or keeping unhappy players - we're about to see, it's hard to envisage anything but a tumble back into pack they almost extricated from during , what is now looking like their version of a golden era.
He's not blessed with being a rich club, he's cursed with over achievement anything less than top 6 is underachievement, he can't sell his star player for peanuts, but if he blocks their demand his players won't commit. It's a catch .22

It's easy to stick your gun if you're barcelona/Real madrid, but if you're Hotspur, you know that you won't push beyond 3rd realistically, breaking the bank for such a futile effort could lead to them being Leeds. They also need to sell their dreams to Kane, making him believe in the "project".

Not easy being levy
 
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IB nailed it. If LVG had won a couple of titles we’d have all been claiming what a good CEO Woodward is, just as the tune shifted with FSG.

Just 3 years back Levy was heralded as doing an incredible job.
 

Champ

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The stadium has been the killer for Spurs.

The pandemic has wiped out any chance they had of paying the debt they accumulated for the stadium, leaving them with no choice but to plan for life on the cheap or sell an asset.

A mixture of bad timing and arrogance that a stadium would herald dominance.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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I don’t understand the myth of Spurs youth development. Other than Harry Kane, who’s really that impactful to have come through their academy recently? Their youth record is rather poor even when compared to other London clubs like Chelsea and Arsenal.
 

amolbhatia50k

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He is pretty wank at the recruitment side of things. Struck gold with Pochettino and has been riding on that wave since. Pretty good at selling players and growing the club commercially.
 
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The OP says they made a pigs ear of it and Levy in his letter to fans talked about bringing in a a manger that suits their proud culture of player development.
Winks, Kane, Rose I guess is their “proud culture” but that had more to do with Poch than anything.

I don’t recall ever hearing anyone talking up Spurs youth system so that anyone could claim it a myth.
 

largelyworried

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I'd disagree here. Under his watch, they went from a completely bog-standard mid-table team to a one that elbowed its way into the top 6 and routinely in the top 4. Not only in terms of finish but also in terms of turnover and facilities, the club is really well set up now. And it did it without a super-rich benefactor, which is extremely hard to do.

Granted he got super lucky with Pochettino. Poch was a bit of a punt that worked out outstandingly well for them. But Jol and Redknapp were also good managers for them, so its not all about 1 guy.

Not saying he's perfect by any means. Mourinho being a disaster was obvious to everyone but him and his tendency to try and play hardball over transfers always seems to harm Spurs more than it helps them. But still, under another chair they could have continued finishing 10th every year like they used to before he arrived.
 

Noodle

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The overall trajectory of Spurs has been positive since he took over, they climbed up the table to challenge for titles, they've been in finals including the CL. That being said i think he took a huge gamble on the stadium which has saddled the club with debt, it may have been just about manageable to pay this off in normal times and still keep a semi decent side but then covid hit and Spurs are shafted.

I kind of understand the thought behind it, big world leading stadium and revenue stream to push Spurs on to being stronger financially in the long term, it just seems like the gamble has backfired and it's now a huge noose around the clubs neck.

I think 21/22 is going to be absolutely huge for Spurs, miss out on CL and lose Kane and i can't see them competing for a long time
 
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TrustInJanuzaj

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If Spurs has any sense they should have taken the Dortmund model and applied it to the Prem. Levy has too much pride to do that but if Spurs would have cashed in on some of their assets earlier they could have reinvested some massive money into the squad. If that money was spent wisely like at a Leicester or Dortmund they would have made a significantly stronger squad.

Just look at the some of the ‘assets’ they could have cashed in on but didn’t and who are now worth pennies:
- Dele Ali = £60-70 million (now £10-20 mill)
- Alderwiereld = c.£50 mill (now £10 mill if that)
- Moussa Dembele = £60 - £70 mill (ended up walking for basically nothing after he was finished).
There are far more than that too!

Spurs have these delusions that they are a top club but they need to accept they are in the tier below. That arrogant thinking by Levy and some of the fans (cough Glaston) has lead to their downfall now and I can’t see them climbing back into the top 4 easily at all especially when Kane leaves. There’s no shame in selling the odd player at high value and reinvesting.
 

Nickelodeon

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Levy got too carried away with his tough guy act. His successes do include selling Bale at a world record fee and Berbatov to some extent but trapping the players in long contracts and not making any smart sales like one of their center halves or even Kane for that matter, has made the club stale. Now they have players which are low on motivation but which are virtually unbuyable. Coupled with a horrific choice of manager in Mourinho, he's getting Spurs back to where he started from.
 

Oranges038

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I think he's great and he is doing a great job at Spurs. Not sure why anyone would think otherwise.
 

padzilla

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If he appoints Paulo Fonseca, which it looks like he will, it will be an admission that Spurs are not serious about becoming a club that challenges at the top level. It is looking more and more like they just got lucky for a few years with Poch and normal service has once again been resumed.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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Once hailed as a masterful, canny and shrewd operator for Spurs, but as time has passed and we've seen his practices time and again now; isn't if fair to say he is the primary reason for Spurs' inertia and textbook merry-go-round of both managers and players?

His M.O. of leaving his star players having to fight to get out of the club must also make any real promising up and coming talent wary of stepping foot in the club (where any other option on an equal footing is available to them) and after the exodus - or keeping unhappy players - we're about to see, it's hard to envisage anything but a tumble back into pack they almost extricated from during , what is now looking like their version of a golden era.

Does anybody else feel the above is inevitable and nearly all of it is down to Levy and his practices with both bringing in, and selling on talent as well as pin-balling from manager to manager? Pochettino's era had the potential to be pivotal for them and instead, they've made a pig's ear of it on each level presented (youth development, squad development, sales and managerial) and who else can the finger for that be pointed to but Levy?

Is the once-lauded-one ever going to be scrutinised?
While I am not his biggest fan right now, going by the last few years, to say he has been bad for Spurs is idiotic you look where we were as a club 20 years ago to where we our now, its night and day. We were nearly relegated under Sugar.
 

VorZakone

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Once hailed as a masterful, canny and shrewd operator for Spurs, but as time has passed and we've seen his practices time and again now; isn't if fair to say he is the primary reason for Spurs' inertia and textbook merry-go-round of both managers and players?

His M.O. of leaving his star players having to fight to get out of the club must also make any real promising up and coming talent wary of stepping foot in the club (where any other option on an equal footing is available to them) and after the exodus - or keeping unhappy players - we're about to see, it's hard to envisage anything but a tumble back into pack they almost extricated from during , what is now looking like their version of a golden era.

Does anybody else feel the above is inevitable and nearly all of it is down to Levy and his practices with both bringing in, and selling on talent as well as pin-balling from manager to manager? Pochettino's era had the potential to be pivotal for them and instead, they've made a pig's ear of it on each level presented (youth development, squad development, sales and managerial) and who else can the finger for that be pointed to but Levy?

Is the once-lauded-one ever going to be scrutinised?
Currently that is just an assumption. Spurs is a big club relatively speaking and play in the PL. They'll continue to be an attractive destination.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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If he appoints Paulo Fonseca, which it looks like he will, it will be an admission that Spurs are not serious about becoming a club that challenges at the top level. It is looking more and more like they just got lucky for a few years with Poch and normal service has once again been resumed.
How can we possibly challenge the likes of United/Liverpool/City?
 

11101

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I don't think he's bad for them. He runs them like a business, same as us, same as Liverpool. That holds them back a little but it also gives them security, without that who knows how far they could have dropped by now. They were a mid-lower table team when he took over in 2001.

If it weren't for the oil money screwing the league up they would be a comfortable Champions League team every season and even now they are fairly regular CL participants, which is a lot more than they used to be. They had been in the European Cup only once before he arrived, back in the early 60s.
 

Abraxas

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I would say only in picking Mourinho. That was an awful decision that made no sense at all to most observers. Completely at odds with the club conditions and based on vague notions that at some point Jose was a 'winner' - despite the fact he hasn't really been a winner for a long time and ends up leaving a club divided and unsuccessful.

What has he really done wrong apart from that? Most of the dislike from our fans is based on this perception of his negotiating skills for players we have bought from Spurs. His job is to get good deals for Spurs.

He appointed Pochettino which was a great decision, but Poch had run his race and was bungling things. That is the truth of the matter at the end. He seemed to run out of steam after going close previously, which isn't that unexpected. I think once you have reached those heights, the come down would be quite natural when you look around the dressing room and realise how much you are extracting from the players. This was a weakness of the manager rather than Levy.

Apart from that they don't have the resources of many clubs that are above them. What can really be expected from Spurs except to be in contention for some kind of European football? That is the brutal reality for Spurs.
 

Adam-Utd

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If Spurs has any sense they should have taken the Dortmund model and applied it to the Prem. Levy has too much pride to do that but if Spurs would have cashed in on some of their assets earlier they could have reinvested some massive money into the squad. If that money was spent wisely like at a Leicester or Dortmund they would have made a significantly stronger squad.

Just look at the some of the ‘assets’ they could have cashed in on but didn’t and who are now worth pennies:
- Dele Ali = £60-70 million (now £10-20 mill)
- Alderwiereld = c.£50 mill (now £10 mill if that)
- Moussa Dembele = £60 - £70 mill (ended up walking for basically nothing after he was finished).
There are far more than that too!

Spurs have these delusions that they are a top club but they need to accept they are in the tier below. That arrogant thinking by Levy and some of the fans (cough Glaston) has lead to their downfall now and I can’t see them climbing back into the top 4 easily at all especially when Kane leaves. There’s no shame in selling the odd player at high value and reinvesting.
Agreed with this.

That Tottenham side clearly needed refreshing but instead tried to keep it together with bandages and glue.

Instead of backing the 1 man that made them something more than Spursy, he got rid and ended up giving all the money and investment to a busted flush Mourinho :lol:

They did get unlucky with the timing of the stadium and the pandemic, perhaps things might have been different - but he's failed to adapt. Now he risks losing Kane for a cut price, or keeping him as an unhappy player who might not perform to his best. Tricky situation.

A new manager and possibly losing your talisman, we shall see just how good he is.
 

jackal&hyde

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It looks to me like he is trying to set the club up for sustained performance once the stadium starts producing and the debt decreases. His big recent mistake was appointing managers that want huge investment rather then develop young players. Managers like Mou and Conte should come maybe 5 to 10 years later once the club is settled.
 

Bastian

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Did anyone watching that documentary series not come away with thinking Levy is a bit of a blagger? I found him wholly unimpressive and with actual no plus points to his character. He came across as very self-aware without the compliment of insight.

Managing a club with expectations is quite different to being talked about as some shrewd businessman when there are zero expectations. I'll quote again this epic line:

Lord Triesman: “Spurs have a gross debt last reported in February of £1.177bn, the biggest in Europe, a glorious new stadium and an utterly inconsistent team to play in it.The business is essentially now a real-estate developer.”
 

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He’s always been the same, it’s just fans being knee-jerky with their takes, as usual.

It’s the same with FSG and Liverpool. Upper management at most clubs are usually average to crap, and what makes the difference is great managers and players, which Spurs happened to hit the jackpot with both but still ultimately bungled it in Spursy fashion.
This needs to be said more often.

The last bit is as funny as it’s true! :lol:
 

KiD MoYeS

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Nothing new from Spurs really, they have always yo-yoed around the top ten in the Premier League. They reached the Champions League final, doing very well to get there, but lost - had they won that I think things may have been different but ultimately... LADS, IT'S TOTTENHAM.
 

MDFC Manager

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He hired Mourinho, that decision alone shouldn't let him sleep at night.

And the pandemic hasn't helped either.
 

redshaw

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We'd have to see who chose the players from the early to mid 2010s but whether luck or judgement of the club or AVB they had a good run of very cheap finds on low wages coinciding with the EPL TV contract boom. Spurs haven't been able to keep the savvy buys going and bought a few highly priced average players so far.

Levy has tried hanging on to the death of each players contract, the theory is if you keep your best players you won't be strengthening your rivals, you'll be in the top 4 instead of them but you need to replace these players eventually and this is how it dried up for Spurs. Ideally they possibly should've sold the odd one to reinvest while some smart buys were still out there, now it's really hard and a very expensive market. Spurs managed to finance a nice new stadium out of the run and even be called up to be a ESL founder due to the wealth of the EPL, they could be well placed to do well again one day and even sustain it better next time but with the possibility of three oil clubs in the EPL battling it out for players, academies agent fees it's hard to see how they get back in without not being bought out themselves.
 

padzilla

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I certainly think we are trying no? Covid has hamstrung us massively, any budget that was worked out is gone.
I understand that absolutely but the imminent appointment of Paulo Fonseca suggests the expectations have been downsized to say the least.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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Levy is deluded.

I could understand your stance on not selling him if you missed out on the league by a couple of points and are going again next season. But there is a light-year-sized chasm between them and the top four teams in the league. Keeping him doesn't get you closer to the title. Another £300m of investment does...which they don't have. So you're keeping a player, who is going to decline because.....you want to save face? That's it. That's all it is. Nothing more.

And people gassing him up like he is some astute businessman? Behave!

The lovely shiny new stadium (that they didn't need) meaning the club's finances are hamstrung paying it down (Arsenal say hello). Wastes huge money on the Mourinho experiment who delivered nothing and left inside of 18 months (which people said would happen), now chasing the old manager that he sacked after he got your team to a EUROPEAN final. Who you didn't back in the market after he had worked miracles.

Now apparently not paying up for Conte. Replacing Bale with LAMELA (who is still at the club?!) and Soldado. The guy is a detriment to Spurs in all honesty.
From the Harry Kane thread.