Cancel Culture

[Buchan]

I’m unsure if there was a thread dedicated to this issue already (I searched but couldn’t find one) but what are your feelings on this recent phenomenon? People are having careers destroyed by other people who are offended by a tweet, comment or text message, doxxing the ‘offender’, publicly humiliating them and often directing their employers, family members and friends to the ‘offensive’ content. (For clarity before I’m misconstrued: I am referring to rather innocuous comments and/or actions - oftentimes even inaction is being used as a stick to beat people with - which people are being ‘cancelled’ for. Not obvious and outright discrimination, racism, sexism etc., which merits such measures.)

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I have no clue who any of these people are who are referred to in the story featured but reading it (providing it’s accurate, which nobody has challenged yet) left me aghast. The lady with a career now in tatters posted a #BLM photo for the viral #BlackoutTuesday hashtag yet it wasn’t enough in the eyes of some and she was called out for it. Her responding comments weren’t great but I will put that down to total confusion and frustration about being called out despite taking part in a viral show of solidarity. I reckon 99% of those who took part worldwide did the same as her: posted the hashtag, attached the black square and went about her other business. What exactly did she do wrong? Was that sack-worthy? Was it racism? Are we all in danger of losing our livelihoods if we don’t disclose our inner-most feelings and thoughts on highly-nuanced issues? Who would feel comfortable with it being necessary to comment on these issues every time and having those comments on public record? Many wouldn’t, I’m guessing, and prefer to sit these things out as they are often complex issues with lots of grey area, and with how militant these groups are in the cancel culture arena, you can bet your bottom dollar that any attempt on your behalf to explain your reasoning would be met with the same result anyway: total and utter public humiliation.

Why are companies and employers bowing down to these mobs? Why are they allowed her away with this? I’m all for a better world but surely this isn’t how it’s going to be achieved. There are many examples over the last couple of years of people being cancelled in an incredibly aggressive fashion and, IMO, the cancel culture is entirely moronic, extremely dangerous and will ultimately prove self-defeating.

 

[Raoul]

I’m unsure if there was a thread dedicated to this issue already (I searched but couldn’t find one) but what are your feelings on this recent phenomenon? People are having careers destroyed by other people who are offended by a tweet, comment or text message, doxxing the ‘offender’, publicly humiliating them and often directing their employers, family members and friends to the ‘offensive’ content. (For clarity before I’m misconstrued: I am referring to rather innocuous comments and/or actions - oftentimes even inaction is being used as a stick to beat people with - which people are being ‘cancelled’ for. Not obvious and outright discrimination, racism, sexism etc., which merits such measures.)

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I have no clue who any of these people are who are referred to in the story featured but reading it (providing it’s accurate, which nobody has challenged yet) left me aghast. The lady with a career now in tatters posted a #BLM photo for the viral #BlackoutTuesday hashtag yet it wasn’t enough in the eyes of some and she was called out for it. Her responding comments weren’t great but I will put that down to total confusion and frustration about being called out despite taking part in a viral show of solidarity. I reckon 99% of those who took part worldwide did the same as her: posted the hashtag, attached the black square and went about her other business. What exactly did she do wrong? Was that sack-worthy? Are we all in danger of losing our livelihoods if we don’t disclose our inner-most feelings and thoughts on highly-nuanced issues? Who would feel comfortable with it being necessary to comment on these issues every time and having those comments on public record? Many wouldn’t, I’m guessing, and prefer to sit these things out as they are often complex issues with lots of grey area, and with how militant these groups are in the cancel culture arena, you can bet your bottom dollar that any attempt on your behalf to explain your reasoning would be met with the same result anyway: total and utter public humiliation.

Why are companies and employers bowing down to these mobs? Why are they allowed her away with this? I’m all for a better world but surely this isn’t how it’s going to be achieved. There are many examples over the last couple of years of people being cancelled in an incredibly aggressive fashion and, IMO, the cancel culture is entirely moronic, extremely dangerous and will ultimately prove self-defeating.

In short, its because humans can now use technology for interest formation that creates herd behavior. In the social media context, this means groups can wield power over ideas, issues, companies etc. as long as the herd is large enough to affect a company's bottom line.

 

[MrPooni]

Losing the racism debate, eh?

"I know, let's talk up the imaginary threat of cancel culture so we can reframe our dumb bigoted arguments and start this whole dance again! Here's a poorly worded essay I pulled out of Ben Shapiros dick hole this morning..."

We see you. We hear you. Twat's Lives Matter too.

 

[arnie_ni]

One thing im not a fan of is tweeting, texting, saying, writing something years ago and being done for it now.

It doesnt factor in personal growth and the ability for that person to have changed their views and thoughts on a certain mattter.

 

[Cascarino]

There’s a lot of things I don’t like about social media justice, mainly because things can get distorted or taking into of context, but what she did was pretty dim.

‘black lives mattered to me ever since I lost my virginity’

I’m sure it was tongue in cheek but read the damn room.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

Losing the racism debate, eh?

"I know, let's talk up the imaginary threat of cancel culture so we can reframe our dumb bigoted arguments and start this whole dance again! Here's a poorly worded essay I pulled out of Ben Shapiros dick hole this morning..."

We see you. We hear you. Twat's Lives Matter too.

It is posts such as this one that make you think twice before responding in these type of threads.

 

[dumbo]

I tend to consider it the height of laziness to just repost ContraPoints but it's all here:

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The Crossfit one was a little hard to get my head round. Not sure what he did was all that terrible.

And yes, cancel culture is problematic and annoying.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I tend to consider it the height of laziness to just repost ContraPoints but it's all here:

Didn’t ContraPoints end up getting cancelled?

 

[freeurmind]

I’m unsure if there was a thread dedicated to this issue already (I searched but couldn’t find one) but what are your feelings on this recent phenomenon? People are having careers destroyed by other people who are offended by a tweet, comment or text message, doxxing the ‘offender’, publicly humiliating them and often directing their employers, family members and friends to the ‘offensive’ content. (For clarity before I’m misconstrued: I am referring to rather innocuous comments and/or actions - oftentimes even inaction is being used as a stick to beat people with - which people are being ‘cancelled’ for. Not obvious and outright discrimination, racism, sexism etc., which merits such measures.)

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I have no clue who any of these people are who are referred to in the story featured but reading it (providing it’s accurate, which nobody has challenged yet) left me aghast. The lady with a career now in tatters posted a #BLM photo for the viral #BlackoutTuesday hashtag yet it wasn’t enough in the eyes of some and she was called out for it. Her responding comments weren’t great but I will put that down to total confusion and frustration about being called out despite taking part in a viral show of solidarity. I reckon 99% of those who took part worldwide did the same as her: posted the hashtag, attached the black square and went about her other business. What exactly did she do wrong? Was that sack-worthy? Was it racism? Are we all in danger of losing our livelihoods if we don’t disclose our inner-most feelings and thoughts on highly-nuanced issues? Who would feel comfortable with it being necessary to comment on these issues every time and having those comments on public record? Many wouldn’t, I’m guessing, and prefer to sit these things out as they are often complex issues with lots of grey area, and with how militant these groups are in the cancel culture arena, you can bet your bottom dollar that any attempt on your behalf to explain your reasoning would be met with the same result anyway: total and utter public humiliation.

Why are companies and employers bowing down to these mobs? Why are they allowed her away with this? I’m all for a better world but surely this isn’t how it’s going to be achieved. There are many examples over the last couple of years of people being cancelled in an incredibly aggressive fashion and, IMO, the cancel culture is entirely moronic, extremely dangerous and will ultimately prove self-defeating.

Cancel culture is in no way recent.
What's different is the things people are getting "canceled" over.

 

[V.O.]

It's complete bollocks and I hate it with a passion. It's a bunch of people playing a prestige point-scoring game with each other competing to be the most offended and show how "woke" they are. (I see @MrPooni has already made his requisite appearance to pump up his sense of self-satisfaction by telling you how morally superior he is and belittling everybody else without actually talking about the topic for a second).

I'm probably about as left-wing as you can get. If there was a viable Communist party I'd be voting for them. However, this trend on the left in the past decade or so of militantly attacking anybody who isn't careful enough of someone else's "identity tags" is getting to be ridiculous. Identity politics is great when the goal is to make everybody's "tags" meaningless to create actual equality, not to actually fecking emphasise them, make them sacred cows, and make a person the sum of their "tags".

I think it originates from a morally good place but now serves nobody but those who want to score their little points and make themselves feel smug. The only thing is achieves in a macro sense is to have people who see how fecking ridiculous it is getting pushed to the political right. I think it has contributed quite a lot to the political polarisation we have now.

If you've got 20 minutes, social psychology professor Jonathan Haidt can explain it with much more eloquence and balance than I can after 4 bottles of Dragon Stout, from the perspective of American university campuses.

 

[SuperiorXI]

It's bizarre, I think it always existed in some form and has now evolved due to the massive popularity of social media.

People love a witch hunt. You can see it throughout human history.

 

[dumbo]

Didn’t ContraPoints end up getting cancelled?

As I understand it there are persistent calls for her cancelling from small subsects, and she mentions some of it in the video. I'd imagine she's fairly uncancellable as she is now, given the considered tone of the work and the standout production quality.

 

[Raoul]

Cancel culture is in no way recent.
What's different is the things people are getting "canceled" over.

Spot on. Its always existed since mobs of humans have targeted their ire on a person or idea. Its has gotten exponentially more insidious in the social media age.

 

[Grinner]

Spot on. Its always existed when since mobs of humans have targeted their ire on a person or idea. Its has gotten exponentially more insidious in the social media age.

yeah but burning witches made some kind of sense.

 

[Raoul]

yeah but burning witches made some kind of sense.

Its not always wrong, but its not always right either. It is however mob rule.

 

[freeurmind]

Hollywood Blacklist is a good example. Dixie Chicks is another for something more recent.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

So you are upset that some social media "influencer" didn't get invited back to a reality tv show? That sounds like some severe entitlement.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So you are upset that some social media "influencer" didn't get invited back to a reality tv show? That sounds like some severe entitlement.

Where did you get the impression he was upset about her specific plight? Wasn’t it just an example of someone having her career ruined by a very slight misstep?

And if stuff like that keeps getting more and more prevalent then I’s say we should all be “upset”. Nice use of “entitlement” though. If you’d gone with “privilege” instead that would have got me even more points on my ‘kneejerk left wing social media insults’ bingo card.

 

[11101]

In short, its because humans can now use technology for interest formation that creates herd behavior. In the social media context, this means groups can wield power over ideas, issues, companies etc. as long as the herd is large enough to affect a company's bottom line.

I would like to know how much revenue getting caught out with these things actually costs. How much revenue would HBO lose if the social media bandwagon turned it's sights on Gone with the Wind? Companies are acting out of fear but I suspect once they get a handle on the real cost they will start making more pragmatic decisions.

People love witch hunts because they get a reaction. It will only stop once companies figure out they can be ignored.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Where did you get the impression he was upset about her specific plight?

Because that's the example plastered all over the OP?

Wasn’t it just an example of someone having her career ruined by a very slight misstep?

Career? So you believe social media "influencers" are entitled to be selected as contestants on an MTV reality show?

And if stuff like that keeps getting more and more prevalent then I’s say we should all be “upset”. Nice use of “entitlement” though. If you’d gone with “privilege” instead that would have got me even more points on my ‘kneejerk left wing social media insults’ bingo card.

If you want to raise a topic like "Cancel culture" then pick a better example than some social media wanna-be that isn't entitled to a "career' getting invited on reality TV.

 

[SuperiorXI]

I would like to know how much revenue getting caught out with these things actually costs. How much revenue would HBO lose if the social media bandwagon turned it's sights on Gone with the Wind? Companies are acting out of fear but I suspect once they get a handle on the real cost they will start making more pragmatic decisions.

People love witch hunts because they get a reaction. It will only stop once companies figure out they can be ignored.

See the whole Dominic Cummings issue, now largely forgotten. Perhaps lying and sticking your fingers in your ears is the only viable tactic against cancel culture.

 

[Raoul]

I would like to know how much revenue getting caught out with these things actually costs. How much revenue would HBO lose if the social media bandwagon turned it's sights on Gone with the Wind? Companies are acting out of fear but I suspect once they get a handle on the real cost they will start making more pragmatic decisions.

People love witch hunts because they get a reaction. It will only stop once companies figure out they can be ignored.

They wouldn't turn on a movie - they would turn on outlets that are showing the movie. So the likes of HBO, which is now run increasingly on subscription models, would probably be forced to capitulate to the outrage of the moment, for fear of losing a percentage of their subscribers and having to deal with the long term, online stain of not "being sensitive".

 

[Grinner]

See the whole Dominic Cummings issue, now largely forgotten. Perhaps lying and sticking your fingers in your ears is the only viable tactic against cancel culture.

That would only work if Boris is fecking her...he may very well be of course.

 

[SuperiorXI]

That would only work if Boris is fecking her...he may very well be of course.

He's currently fecking the whole country

 

[BobbyManc]

Focusing on ‘cancel culture’ - which in its present usage is largely a fabricated notion fashioned and exploited by privileged people in response to legitimate criticisms e.g in the aftermath of the #MeToo movement - seems odd when its poster-boy victims like Louis CK are able to return and do sell-out comedy shows, meanwhile the more invisible ‘cancel culture’ that often shuts out non-white people and women (plus many more demographics I’m sure) from areas of employment is a far more insidious, measurable and severe issue.

It is also not a new phenomenon, it goes back centuries and ‘cancel culture’ is in many ways more tolerant and less repressive than earlier days where stuff would be censored on spurious political or religious grounds. It’s only the technology and who can wield influence that has changed. What someone said in 2010 on a blog can easily be found today.

That’s not to say there are occasions where public figures are unfairly and excessively sought to be silenced or punished in complete disproportion to their apparent past misdemeanour. Of course that happens. But we really need to focus on what ‘cancelling’ actually means in practice, as the Louis CK example shows, and the impunity with which many can still act in privileged positions. The concept of some all-powerful cancel culture is ridiculous when you see who was able to become US president. The only genuinely ‘cancelled’ people I can see so far are the likes of Kevin Spacey and no one can object to that.

 

[Grinner]

It's complete bollocks and I hate it with a passion. It's a bunch of people playing a prestige point-scoring game with each other competing to be the most offended and show how "woke" they are. (I see @MrPooni has already made his requisite appearance to pump up his sense of self-satisfaction by telling you how morally superior he is and belittling everybody else without actually talking about the topic for a second).

I'm probably about as left-wing as you can get. If there was a viable Communist party I'd be voting for them. However, this trend on the left in the past decade or so of militantly attacking anybody who isn't careful enough of someone else's "identity tags" is getting to be ridiculous. Identity politics is great when the goal is to make everybody's "tags" meaningless to create actual equality, not to actually fecking emphasise them, make them sacred cows, and make a person the sum of their "tags".

I think it originates from a morally good place but now serves nobody but those who want to score their little points and make themselves feel smug. The only thing is achieves in a macro sense is to have people who see how fecking ridiculous it is getting pushed to the political right. I think it has contributed quite a lot to the political polarisation we have now.

If you've got 20 minutes, social psychology professor Jonathan Haidt can explain it with much more eloquence and balance than I can after 4 bottles of Dragon Stout, from the perspective of American university campuses.

I'm not watching your vid but I'm definitely going to try some of that Dragon stout

 

[afrocentricity]

*Looks at thread title...
*Looks at poster username....

Nah...

Although I do fancy a Dragon Stout now so not such a waste of time opening the thread.

 

[V.O.]

I'm not watching your vid but I'm definitely going to try some of that Dragon stout

It's a bit like if Guinness did Special Brew, nowt fancy but strongly recommended anyway.

 

[balaks]

It's a bit like if Guinness did Special Brew, nowt fancy but strongly recommended anyway.

Jesus sign me up.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Because that's the example plastered all over the OP?



Career? So you believe social media "influencers" are entitled to be selected as contestants on an MTV reality show?



If you want to raise a topic like "Cancel culture" then pick a better example than some social media wanna-be that isn't entitled to a "career' getting invited on reality TV.

To be honest, I don’t feel in a position to judge anyone else on how they earn a living. So long as they’re not harming anyone then I don’t think I should look down on their choice of career. That really would be entitled of me.

 

[Conor]

You are really going for that crappest poster of the year title over the last few days. I think you should worry about things that are really impacting large numbers of people, instead of overblown instances of individuals being 'canceled', when half of the time it's likely warranted. Spending all your time arguing the other side of these sorts of things really gives off the wrong impression(maybe you don't care), considering you also claim to agree with many of the core issues surrounding these 'cancel' events.

 

[Shane88]

I saw it yesterday with a Star Wars actor, Sam Witwer, who judging by his twitter fully supports the black lives matter movement and says drastic change is needed to policing. However, he also said one of his best friends is a cop and a great guy who he's had conversations with about these topics and how leadership is one of the main issues that needs addressing etc but he was still treated as treacherous scum by twitter for admitting that he was friends with a cop. He was eventually hounded into apologising with tweets like this...

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

"You need to apologise."

"Apologise and accept you stepped out of line."

For being friends with a guy. It's absurd. There are people ready to pounce on anyone who makes a slight misstep and boom, they'll go after them.

 

[Sky1981]

I wonder what's all this public crucifying helps create

For the victim (or the perpetrator) their live / career ruined, I doubt they're gonna be repentant and says "my bad".

While it's good for the SJW with their "hooray we got em" fanfare it'll create more and more hate.

I mean for some blatant racist probably some e-hazing is appropriate, but a slip of words and a joke too far could cost someone their livelihood. I sometimes wonder how they're taking all this.

(Again I'm talking in general sense, not judging one particular incident)

 

[BobbyManc]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

This is also a good example of how the whole concept of ‘cancel culture’ is deliberately distorted by the media. Even if this tweet had been legitimately from a left-wing account in good faith, so what? It’s one person yelling at a cloud. But create an article and all of a sudden you amplify one outcast opinion into ‘THE LEFT WANTS TO REMOVE HAROLD WILSONS STATUE CANCEL CULTURE HAS GONE CRAZY’

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I saw it yesterday with a Star Wars actor, Sam Witwer, who judging by his twitter fully supports the black lives matter movement and says drastic change is needed to policing. However, he also said one of his best friends is a cop and a great guy who he's had conversations with about these topics and how leadership is one of the main issues that needs addressing etc but he was still treated as treacherous scum by twitter for admitting that he was friends with a cop. He was eventually hounded into apologising with tweets like this...

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

"You need to apologise."

"Apologise and accept you stepped out of line."

For being friends with a guy. It's absurd. There are people ready to pounce on anyone who makes a slight misstep and boom, they'll go after them.

The thing about Twitter is that it’s full of righteous assholes who demand the most craven of apologies for the most trivial of misdemeanours. Engaging with them is pointless. He’d could strip naked and get some woman to follow him round ringing a bell and chanting “shame” and they’d still say his apology isn’t good enough.

I don’t think that counts as being cancelled though. He’s just been silly/naive in trying to appease those who will never be appeased. It’s only when there are real life consequences in terms of someone’s career or family that I would consider them “cancelled”. Which is thankfully relatively rare.

Having said that, I’m sure it feels like shit to be at the bottom of a pile-on when you’re trying to do the right thing. I always find it ironic that the most vocal online drama queens like to give the impression they’re exquisitely aware of mental health and the trauma of being picked on for being different. Right up until they rustle up a crowd of people with e-pitchforks to bully the hell out of some poor bastard who chose the wrong hashtag.

 

[Raoul]

I saw it yesterday with a Star Wars actor, Sam Witwer, who judging by his twitter fully supports the black lives matter movement and says drastic change is needed to policing. However, he also said one of his best friends is a cop and a great guy who he's had conversations with about these topics and how leadership is one of the main issues that needs addressing etc but he was still treated as treacherous scum by twitter for admitting that he was friends with a cop. He was eventually hounded into apologising with tweets like this...

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

"You need to apologise."

"Apologise and accept you stepped out of line."

For being friends with a guy. It's absurd. There are people ready to pounce on anyone who makes a slight misstep and boom, they'll go after them.

Predictably totalitarian. Although some of these generic looking accounts may be Russian bots seeking to exploit tensions by stirring the pot.

 

[DoomSlayer]

@Buchan Be careful, buddy, I'm sure you are already on the list of posters for potential cancellation.

 

[Oldyella]

See the whole Dominic Cummings issue, now largely forgotten. Perhaps lying and sticking your fingers in your ears is the only viable tactic against cancel culture.

Would they have stuck their fingers in their ears if it was 3 months before a general election though? Timing saved Cummings.

 

[Arruda]

When I read the title thought this would be about the news that HBO removed Gone With the Wind from their database because it "perpetuates racism". Talk about cancelling culture.