Carlo Ancelotti | Brazil manager

AfonsoAlves said:
11 juventus players starting in the 2006 WC final?
Click to expand...
Buffon, Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Camoranesi, Thuram, Vieira started, you're right. Plus Trezeguet, Del Piero off the bench, so 8 players in total. My bad
AfonsoAlves said:
------------Dida--------
Cafu - Nesta - Stam - Maldini
Gattuso - Pirlo - Ambrosini
Kaka ------Seedorf
Shevchenko

With Inzaghi, Gilardino, Jankulovski, Kaladze, Simic, Rui Costa, Vieri on the bench, is a pretty insane team.

Should have won more league titles.
Click to expand...
It should have, but put it in context and it's clear why they didn't. In 04/05 they essentially didn't particularly care about winning the league again - that season also featured a Juventus-Milan 0-0 that had Milan players outright accuse the ref of having been bought after the match btw - and in 05/06 they took half a season to get going because their heads were still in Istanbul. They finished with 88 points, Juventus with 91

And, again, all that ignores Calciopoli
 
AfonsoAlves said:
------------Dida--------
Cafu - Nesta - Stam - Maldini
Gattuso - Pirlo - Ambrosini
Kaka ------Seedorf
Shevchenko

With Inzaghi, Gilardino, Jankulovski, Kaladze, Simic, Rui Costa, Vieri on the bench, is a pretty insane team.

Should have won more league titles.
Click to expand...
I think that it was a team that looked a bit better on paper than it did in reality; particularly the back four. Obviously they were still very, very good, but on paper you have four of the best defenders of the last 30 years. In reality though, Maldini and Cafu were pretty old and declining, Stam was also getting on, had lost some of his pace and was often injured. While Nesta was still excellent but had lots of niggling injuries and was not quite the same player as he was at Lazio. Due to their age and injuries, they each only played about half the available games, with good but not exceptional players like Simic, Kaladze, Costacurta (aged nearly 40) and Serginho playing about half.
 
If the Saudi talks are true... my estimation of Carlo Ancelotti as a man just fecking plummeted.
 
It's finally confirmed after so much speculation. I hope he does well there, incredible manager and by all accounts a fantastic person.
 
Realistically would he come to United?

Is he really a manager for turning a bunch of flops into champions?

Winning the PL with us would be his greatest achievement. :devil:
 
His biggest strength is being able to build great teams from groups of great individuals. (Will not be applicable for us)
He is also known to find ways to make do with what he has in terms of players without being to hardwired to system-ideas. (Sounds great but wait until he finds out that there doesn't seem to be many strengths to work with...)
Since he is more of a finisher, a manager that moves a contender over the line to win a trophy, he tends to go for experience rather than youth, which is something a builder would do. (Probably not ideal since it is important for us to finally move away from the remnants of the past)

Carlo really would come with a great reputation and would surely be a pragmatist. But he might also be the wrong man at the wrong time. He would find a way to stabilize results, for sure. But maybe at the cost of something.
 
No, not for me sorry. Never been a big fan of his, obviously a mighty successful manager, but I’ve never watched his teams (besides the 4321 Milan team) and enjoyed watching them or seen them as revolutionary.
 
BarryWinks said:
No, not for me sorry. Never been a big fan of his, obviously a mighty successful manager, but I’ve never watched his teams (besides the 4321 Milan team) and enjoyed watching them or seen them as revolutionary.
Click to expand...
You know what I don't care I just want us to you know actually keep a few fecking clean sheets
 
Carlo is one of the most accomplished managers, no doubt about it.

Feels wrong person if we really want long-term fix, however. And we better hire next manager for the long term, because this pile of garbage cannot be quickly saved by anybody. Why it is feeling wrong:

1. Carlo has perfect resume, but he didn't end his tenure at Real that well. Basically left before he would be fired. And that was Real - almost perfect club with perfect squad. If he started struggling there, will he do well at United?

2. Carlo is 66. That is retirement age even for low-stress jobs. Manager at a big football club is extremely stressful. And manager at United is 10x more stressful than even that. Can a 66 year old handle that? And if we are hiring him to fix us, that will take AT LEAST 5 years. Will a 71 year old have enough energy to deal with this shit? Not to be agist, but there's reality. We are not asking him to be a university professor. United manager job can "kill" much younger / stronger ones
 
NewGlory said:
Carlo is one of the most accomplished managers, no doubt about it.

Feels wrong person if we really want long-term fix, however. And we better hire next manager for the long term, because this pile of garbage cannot be quickly saved by anybody. Why it is feeling wrong:

1. Carlo has perfect resume, but he didn't end his tenure at Real that well. Basically left before he would be fired. And that was Real - almost perfect club with perfect squad. If he started struggling there, will he do well at United?

2. Carlo is 66. That is retirement age even for low-stress jobs. Manager at a big football club is extremely stressful. And manager at United is 10x more stressful than even that. Can a 66 year old handle that? And if we are hiring him to fix us, that will take AT LEAST 5 years. Will a 71 year old have enough energy to deal with this shit? Not to be agist, but there's reality. We are not asking him to be a university professor. United manager job can "kill" much younger / stronger ones
Click to expand...
Right now, just give it a try after World Cup
 
BarryWinks said:
No, not for me sorry. Never been a big fan of his, obviously a mighty successful manager, but I’ve never watched his teams (besides the 4321 Milan team) and enjoyed watching them or seen them as revolutionary.
Click to expand...
Why does his side have to be revolutionary? We just need to win a lot more games than we lose or draw until we're on steadier ground.
 
NewGlory said:
Carlo is one of the most accomplished managers, no doubt about it.

Feels wrong person if we really want long-term fix, however. And we better hire next manager for the long term, because this pile of garbage cannot be quickly saved by anybody. Why it is feeling wrong:

1. Carlo has perfect resume, but he didn't end his tenure at Real that well. Basically left before he would be fired. And that was Real - almost perfect club with perfect squad. If he started struggling there, will he do well at United?

2. Carlo is 66. That is retirement age even for low-stress jobs. Manager at a big football club is extremely stressful. And manager at United is 10x more stressful than even that. Can a 66 year old handle that? And if we are hiring him to fix us, that will take AT LEAST 5 years. Will a 71 year old have enough energy to deal with this shit? Not to be agist, but there's reality. We are not asking him to be a university professor. United manager job can "kill" much younger / stronger ones
Click to expand...
The next hire does not need to be long term at all. We're not going to find SAF mk2 so forget it. We just hire them to do a job then move on to the next one like everyone else does. Instead of waiting months or years to get rid of them when they're shite like we have done since SAF.
Carlo might not even be interested in long term anyway.
 
spwd said:
The next hire does not need to be long term at all. We're not going to find SAF mk2 so forget it. We just hire them to do a job then move on to the next one like everyone else does. Instead of waiting months or years to get rid of them when they're shite like we have done since SAF.
Carlo might not even be interested in long term anyway.
Click to expand...
Who is that "everybody else"?

The most successful club in EPL currently is Man City. Pep has been there 10 years. Arteta has been at Arsenal 6+ years and still has to win a league. Klopp needed 4 years to win a title and stayed almost 9 years. Would have been kept longer if didn't retire himself.

So there is no successful team that keeps hiring/firing managers frequently. Chelsea used to be one, but that was mostly Abramovic "magic".

None of these teams were in as much of trouble as we are now. So, what exactly do you expect Carlo to do? Get us to CL positions couple times and retire? Ole did that. That is not Ancelotti level
 
NewGlory said:
Carlo is one of the most accomplished managers, no doubt about it.

Feels wrong person if we really want long-term fix, however. And we better hire next manager for the long term, because this pile of garbage cannot be quickly saved by anybody. Why it is feeling wrong:

1. Carlo has perfect resume, but he didn't end his tenure at Real that well. Basically left before he would be fired. And that was Real - almost perfect club with perfect squad. If he started struggling there, will he do well at United?

2. Carlo is 66. That is retirement age even for low-stress jobs. Manager at a big football club is extremely stressful. And manager at United is 10x more stressful than even that. Can a 66 year old handle that? And if we are hiring him to fix us, that will take AT LEAST 5 years. Will a 71 year old have enough energy to deal with this shit? Not to be agist, but there's reality. We are not asking him to be a university professor. United manager job can "kill" much younger / stronger ones
Click to expand...
We don't need next manger to be a long term fix. We need someone experienced in for 2-3 years to get us regular CL football. Then hand it off to someone else to kick us on and build from there. This is what Jonathan Norcroft from The Times said and he also used Ancelotti as the ideal appointment for Utd

As long as he hires coaches do run the daily training etc, as Fergie did in his final years, he will be fine.

Whether he wants the job and the weather of Britain at 66 is a different matter.
 
dinostar77 said:
We don't need next manger to be a long term fix. We need someone experienced in for 2-3 years to get us regular CL football. Then hand it off to someone else to kick us on and build from there. This is what Jonathan Norcroft from The Times said and he also used Ancelotti as the ideal appointment for Utd

As long as he hires coaches do run the daily training etc, as Fergie did in his final years, he will be fine.

Whether he wants the job and the weather of Britain at 66 is a different matter.
Click to expand...
Yeah whether he wants to go back into club management again after World Cup is the big question
 
dinostar77 said:
We don't need next manger to be a long term fix. We need someone experienced in for 2-3 years to get us regular CL football. Then hand it off to someone else to kick us on and build from there. This is what Jonathan Norcroft from The Times said and he also used Ancelotti as the ideal appointment for Utd

As long as he hires coaches do run the daily training etc, as Fergie did in his final years, he will be fine.

Whether he wants the job and the weather of Britain at 66 is a different matter.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
 
BarryWinks said:
No, not for me sorry. Never been a big fan of his, obviously a mighty successful manager, but I’ve never watched his teams (besides the 4321 Milan team) and enjoyed watching them or seen them as revolutionary.
Click to expand...
Do we need to be revolutionary? I'd like to just be a good side who wins lots of matches and scores lots of goals.
 
He’s not a good league manager ( for an elite coach) and also not a team builder. He works with what he has with minimal fuss and gives you results, but those results depends on the quality of the squad at his disposal. Also has a tendency to let his team get complacent in physicality/competitiveness after a while, prime example being last season.

In 2013 he’d have been a good appointment, I’d even argue in 2019 after Mourinho. Now, I’m not so sure, given the malaise we are in and the need to instill badly needed resilience and work ethics into the squad.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
He’s not a good league manager ( for an elite coach) and also not a team builder. He works with what he has with minimal fuss and gives you results, but those results depends on the quality of the squad at his disposal. Also has a tendency to let his team get complacent in physicality/competitiveness after a while, prime example being last season.

In 2013 he’d have been a good appointment, I’d even argue in 2019 after Mourinho. Now, I’m not so sure, given the malaise we are in and the need to instill badly needed resilience and work ethics into the squad.
Click to expand...
Yep, exactly this. He’s the galactico whisperer. We’re much closer to his time at Everton than Champions League winning Real as a project.

We need a Klopp type, but sadly there’s not very many of them around!
 
spwd said:
Why does his side have to be revolutionary? We just need to win a lot more games than we lose or draw until we're on steadier ground.
Click to expand...

No, we don’t, and that was not the message of my post. Ancelotti I believe does well with a team of genuine good players who have maybe being shackled by highly regimented systems, by being less hands on with his tactical philosophy those players feel less restricted and can produce their best. It’s why he has earned that reputation as more a man manager than a coach. The Bayern players organized extra training sessions while he was there because Carlo’s sessions weren’t rigorous enough after they’d experienced Heynkens and Pep.

Personally I think we need a coach more than a manager. Someone able to create a modern principle of play and coach offensive and defensive game. Ancelloti is not that man.
 
BarryWinks said:
No, we don’t, and that was not the message of my post. Ancelotti I believe does well with a team of genuine good players who have maybe being shackled by highly regimented systems, by being less hands on with his tactical philosophy those players feel less restricted and can produce their best. It’s why he has earned that reputation as more a man manager than a coach. The Bayern players organized extra training sessions while he was there because Carlo’s sessions weren’t rigorous enough after they’d experienced Heynkens and Pep.

Personally I think we need a coach more than a manager. Someone able to create a modern principle of play and coach offensive and defensive game. Ancelloti is not that man.
Click to expand...
You can hire the coaches to work under him. The pressure of the job is such that you need to be a experienced manager. We've gone down the young manager route with Ten Haag and Amorim and it's been a abject failure.

You get someone like ancelotti in to manage. You get in some tactically very bright coaches to work under him. They handle training, he over sees, manages the players, the board and the ridiculous number of media engagement a minute manager has. Apparently in his time at Utd, Amorim had 400 odd interviews to conduct. Just mental amount.

It's like being prime minister, you make the big calls, but your underlings do all the work, running around.
 
I don’t think he’s a realistic option really, unless Brazil do really terrible in the World Cup and he’s sacked. Probably in his international part-time stage of his career and I doubt he’d be bothered with the challenge of United.
 
Carlo is unlikely to be interested, but if he’s up for the challenge he’s the best man for the job under the present known circumstances. We don’t need a manager to be “revolutionary” or to serve long term such as 5-10 seasons. We need a manager the shitbags who run the club will be forced to listen when he says he needs players in and out. And he’s a master tactician and man manager.

But it’s not going to happen.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.